Schools to close on 24th November

ardmacha

I imagine the table above does not include marking projects and the like.

jimmmy

ardmacha wrote: »

I twice posted this before

But you have not linked or said where your graph was from. There was an Irish born and educated teacher, now working in the UK, on Pat Kenny's morning show a few weeks ago, who compared the 735 hours teachers work in Ireland with the 11295 hours teachers work in the UK. Now, I see your graph does not include the UK, our nearest neighbour ? I wonder why this is? Also, he said teachers in the UK are expected to meet parents at parent/teacher meetings up to 12 times during the year, free of charge, in the evenings to suit the parents. Contrast that to the lazy attitude teachers take to such like here ! He compared the teachers lot in Ireland and the UK and even the union official on afterwards could not deny our teachers are overpaid + underworked by comparison.

ardmacha

But you have not linked or said where your graph was from

I didn't, because you had refused to link to the sources of your contentions.

There was an Irish born and educated teacher, now working in the UK, on Pat Kenny's morning show a few weeks ago, who compared the 735 hours teachers work in Ireland with the 11295 hours teachers work in the UK. Now, I see your graph does not include the UK, our nearest neighbour ? I wonder why this is?

You'll have to ask the OECD why the graph does not include the UK. However their data does include Scotland. Scottish primary work 855 hours in this data, 91 hours less than in Ireland. Irish primary teachers work 3% more hours than a decade ago, Scottish primary teachers 12% less. Irish secondary teachers work somewhat less hours and there indeed may be a case for a few extra days here, but they still do more than the likes of Finland.


One wonders why you place such weight on people interviewed in the media, who inevitably have their own agenda, rather than on international bodies such as the OECD. No doubt the agenda of those interviewed is similar to your own. That said, I can only agree about the staff student meetings, these must be after hours at a time when parents can attend.

Shelflife

one of the points i would like to make is this.

the teachers have a right to protest, they have the right to flex their muscle in order to protect their renumeration package.

there are 7 teachers in our local ns, 130 pupils.

in order to protest they will upset the routine of all the pupils and their parents, their parents will have to either pick up the cost of day care or take a day off work again at a cost,.

one parent i talked to was very upset as her employer has said that they are all on notice of redundancies and she is afraid that if she takes the day off it will count against her.

bottom line is, in order for 7 people to flex their muscle they put out in a financial way approx 85 families. thats not fair either, surely there would be some other way of flexing their muscle without putting extra expense on 85 families that are already under pressure.

Gurgle

Shelflife wrote: »

in order for 7 people to flex their muscle they put out in a financial way approx 85 families

Any point in asking where families comes from?
Are you including those already on the dole and single-income families?

redmca

Shelflife wrote: »

one of the points i would like to make is this.
bottom line is, in order for 7 people to flex their muscle they put out in a financial way approx 85 families. thats not fair either, surely there would be some other way of flexing their muscle without putting extra expense on 85 families that are already under pressure.

Of course there is ....... go on strike in July or August

jimmmy

redmca wrote: »

Of course there is ....... go on strike in July or August

What would you expect from them when they will not even meet parents once a year in the evenings, as teachers in the UK do on an unpaid basis 12 times a year ? When UK schools break up for summer holidays, our teachers already have a month of holidays under their belt. No wonder our top 2 universities are just in the top 100 of universities worldwide, while the UK have 4 in the top five. ( No point wondering where all our many "Institutes of Technology" are ).

Darragh29

And now they've decided amongst themselves that they will only be protesting/picketing for an hour or two on Tuesday, it's basically another day off for them, it's revolting.

rebel10

jimmmy wrote: »

What would you expect from them when they will not even meet parents once a year in the evenings, as teachers in the UK do on an unpaid basis 12 times a year ? When UK schools break up for summer holidays, our teachers already have a month of holidays under their belt. No wonder our top 2 universities are just in the top 100 of universities worldwide, while the UK have 4 in the top five. ( No point wondering where all our many "Institutes of Technology" are ).

What has universities' ratings got to do with primary & secondary teaching? Once again, you are going completely off the point. Want to start bringing up rush hour traffic once again? Universities are universities, schools are schools. If you want to complain about universities, then please don't blame that on teachers. Again, we have already discussed the parent/teacher meetings, this is becoming repetitive. If you cannot make the meetings, then teachers will make themselves available to you for some other day. Now please don't start bringing up the belief you have that teachers should be taking pay cuts because we don't get stuck in rush hour traffic again. Scraping the barrel. This thread is becoming completely devoid of constructive input

Shelflife

Gurgle wrote: »

Any point in asking where families comes from?
Are you including those already on the dole and single-income families?

what do you mean where families come from?

whether they are on the dole or single income they are still being put out by the action taken.

P. Breathnach

jimmmy wrote: »

... No wonder our top 2 universities are just in the top 100 of universities worldwide, while the UK have 4 in the top five.

That is a very respectable performance, provided the ranking system is reasonable.

( No point wondering where all our many "Institutes of Technology" are ).

Why not? Because they might be okay, and that would deny you your cheap shot dismissal of them?

rebel10

Darragh29 wrote: »

And now they've decided amongst themselves that they will only be protesting/picketing for an hour or two on Tuesday, it's basically another day off for them, it's revolting.

Once again, we aren't being paid for it. Its not for an hour or two anyway, once again facts please.
Down in Cork, our schools have been closed since thursday because of the floods and probably til tuesday. Nobody can leave their houses where i am living, no water. Really at this moment in time, i think most of Munster and Connaught have realised that disruption to education for one day is the least of our problems.Many schools would not be open anyway.

ParkRunner

Darragh29 wrote: »

And now they've decided amongst themselves that they will only be protesting/picketing for an hour or two on Tuesday, it's basically another day off for them, it's revolting.

Merely a health and safety issue, particularly at city centre offices where it would be unsafe to have the entire workforce out on narrow city centre streets all at once.

dresden8

Darragh29 wrote: »

And now they've decided amongst themselves that they will only be protesting/picketing for an hour or two on Tuesday, it's basically another day off for them, it's revolting.

Hey, you're not paying them for the day, chillax.

jimmmy

rebel10 wrote: »

What has universities' ratings got to do with primary & secondary teaching? .

They are all part of the education system, all mostly paid by the taxpayer, and I understand all affected by strikes on the 24 th. Teachers in this country think they are brilliant and deserve to be paid so much more than teachers in other countries, but our educational standards are not as high as you would like us to think. There was another thread about that, I am not going to rehash it all again.

rebel10 wrote: »

Want to start bringing up rush hour traffic once again?

You must be thinking of someone else. Please get your facts right. I did not mention rush hour traffic.:D

rebel10

jimmmy wrote: »

They are all part of the education system, all mostly paid by the taxpayer, and I understand all affected by strikes on the 24 th. Teachers in this country think they are brilliant and deserve to be paid so much more than teachers in other countries, but our educational standards are not as high as you would like us to think. There was another thread about that, I am not going to rehash it all again.



You must be thinking of someone else. Please get your facts right. I did not mention rush hour traffic.:D

Apologies, from your earlier rantings i thought it was you who kept going off the point.

jimmmy

rebel10 wrote: »

Apologies

Apology accepted. As I said, You must be thinking of someone else... I did not mention rush hour traffic

Darragh29

EF wrote: »

Merely a health and safety issue, particularly at city centre offices where it would be unsafe to have the entire workforce out on narrow city centre streets all at once.

Ahhhhh, "Health & Safety", the last hiding place of the person who wants an excuse to avoid work...

So please tell me when standing at a school gate with a plank of wood in your hand, caused health & safety issues to arise???????????????

It's funny, maybe every person who will hold a plank of wood in their hand next Tuesday will be risking their "health and safety" then???? Maybe we should call in the HSA to call off the strike on the grounds of "health and safety", or maybe that can't happen because the people in the HSA would be risking their "health and safety", by talking to people who want to strike on Tuesday...

What every small degree of credibility you might have had with me, you've thrown it down the toilet with that contribution.

Health & Safety, the last hiding place of the lazy, the obstructive and the downright useless...

candy-gal1

Ah damn! forgot about this :mad: more time off for the kids to hang around, GR8! lol heavy sarcasm!

Darragh29

EF wrote: »

Merely a health and safety issue, particularly at city centre offices where it would be unsafe to have the entire workforce out on narrow city centre streets all at once.

What about the hundreds of kids who walk through the same schoolgate several times a day to get to school and the same teachers who pass the same gate no less than twice a day???? You're a disgrace to your country.

ParkRunner

Darragh29 wrote: »

What about the hundreds of kids who walk through the same schoolgate several times a day to get to school and the same teachers who pass the same gate no less than twice a day???? You're a disgrace to your country.

Careful now with the blood pressure. Im not a teacher myself but they arent being paid by anyone, the government or the unions so it really is up to themselves how they want to organise their own protest.

My point about health and safety, anyway, is more appropriate to city centre offices where it would be dangerous to have large numbers of workers picketing on narrow streets with heavy traffic passing by.

bobsy

Im loving it.NO school

UndecidedKris

Is there still going to be a Teacher Strike on Tuesday?? :eek:

Riskymove

EF wrote: »

My point about health and safety, anyway, is more appropriate to city centre offices where it would be dangerous to have large numbers of workers picketing on narrow streets with heavy traffic passing by.

careful now, you'll be giving some people ideas

Riskymove

Darragh29 wrote: »

So please tell me when standing at a school gate with a plank of wood in your hand, caused health & safety issues to arise???????????????

splinters?

That_Guy

bobsy wrote: »

Im loving it.NO school

Yes, that's the attitude. :rolleyes:

Go study.

That_Guy

Darragh29 wrote: »

And now they've decided amongst themselves that they will only be protesting/picketing for an hour or two on Tuesday, it's basically another day off for them, it's revolting.

Aye. My mam is only going for an hour or two. If they really gave a sh*t about these proposed wage cuts they should be out there all day instead of two measly hours.

It's disgraceful and I hope they get their wage cut. They deserve it.

(Just having a rant cos the traffic was bedlam earlier because of these "protesters")

gurramok

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/education/2009/1124/1224259332656.html?via=mr

3 years of teaching(starting 4th) and earning 43k at Primary school level. Thats insane wages for that level of experience as a teacher. :eek:

Rantan

The disparity in pay between junior and senior teachers is incredible, . I know one retired couple(teachers) still in their 50's, loaded with the ubiquitous holiday home on the med where they spend half their time, yet I have a friend who worked in IT for years and went back and did the h-dip some years ago and is struggling to survive on the few hours he is given. He was promised some extra hours this year but a niece of his principle, who returned from travelling, was given them instead!!

herya

Rantan wrote: »

The disparity in pay between junior and senior teachers is incredible

Maybe not so much if you read the article quoted above - this girl is a junior teacher on over 40k already in her fourth year, well on her way to much more while her actual duties won't change that much. Perhaps it just depends on whom you know and where you are.