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Schools to close on 24th November
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+1 to that. I'll also have to take a day off or pay for some childcare.
Either way, this costs me. Teachers aren't going to get the public on their side by taking money directly from their pockets.
No support from me. I will never get a secure job with the holidays and Pension they have!. Pay cuts are hard ( I know I had one) but at the end of the day they have a Job for live and a secure pension.0 -
Say for example teachers and general public sector pay is cut to bring government expenditure in line with last years expenditure..bearing in mind that pay and numbers have already been cut yet goverment expenditure this year will be higher than last year due to servicing the national debt and increased numbers on social welfare...Where do we go next?
Note: I am not a teacher0 -
Say for example teachers and general public sector pay is cut to bring government expenditure in line with last years expenditure..bearing in mind that pay and numbers have already been cut yet goverment expenditure this year will be higher than last year due to servicing the national debt and increased numbers on social welfare...Where do we go next?
Note: I am not a teacher
We need to lower Public Sector expenditure across all sectors (including judical system etc.)
Lower Social Welfare payments
This should in turn lead to lower prices in the general economy making us more competitive.
Work on industries which are still strong here (e.g. Pharmaceutical Industry), not just talking about grants but encourage biomedical and R and D hubs like they are doing in India.
Increase support for exporters (€250m is a bit of a novel figure) and ensure that Ireland gets out of this recession by attracting hard foreign currency over personal borrowed monies from abroad which was the case since 2002.
This in turn should lead to more jobs and more spin off industries (incl. general services) which will create real employment and reduce our national debt.0 -
To be honest a teacher on 60k (average pay) can't say in all seriousness that they are doing anything "for free" unless it leads to them working longer than 39 hours per week averaged across the whole year. With such long holidays and short class time (even allowing for prep time) their average working week is nowhere near 39 hours (and many private sector firms operate a 42 hour week. Some even operate 48 hour weeks.Sorry you are wrong. teachers stay back in the evenings, lunch time, come in before school to organise and run these activities and do not have to do it, nor do they get paid for it. They do it because they recognise the value it will bring. Teachers are employed and paid to teach their classes and anything else is voluntary. It's a pity you have to resort to name calling, just shows you are wrong and have no other argument or worthwhile contribution to make!0 -
We need to lower Public Sector expenditure across all sectors (including judical system etc.)
Lower Social Welfare payments
This should in turn lead to lower prices in the general economy making us more competitive.
Work on industries which are still strong here (e.g. Pharmaceutical Industry), not just talking about grants but encourage biomedical and R and D hubs like they are doing in India.
Increase support for exporters (€250m is a bit of a novel figure) and ensure that Ireland gets out of this recession by attracting hard foreign currency over personal borrowed monies from abroad which was the case since 2002.
This in turn should lead to more jobs and more spin off industries (incl. general services) which will create real employment and reduce our national debt.
I agree with pretty much everything here, although I would prefer to see more indigenous industries! Why the government are spending 7bn between Anglo Irish bank and the National Pension Reserve fund I do not understand. This money would be far better spent on creating jobs!0 -
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a lot of teachers gone missing ,maybe they're booking their christmas hols on line,me i'm working chritmas eve untill 12(no ot) and i'm working new years eve till 2am(2 hours ot)they have it hard alright.0
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Sorry you are wrong. teachers stay back in the evenings, lunch time, come in before school to organise and run these activities and do not have to do it, nor do they get paid for it. They do it because they recognise the value it will bring. Teachers are employed and paid to teach their classes and anything else is voluntary. It's a pity you have to resort to name calling, just shows you are wrong and have no other argument or worthwhile contribution to make!
Seemingly a teachers scheduled hours do not just include class time but after school also. So if you are doing this after school it is part of your wages and you are not doing this for free. You still havn't explained why you get paid E50 an hour to supervise at lunchtime.
What about the fact that teachers also get paid to have parent teacher meetings outside school time but they have also withdrawn this even though they have been paid for it because they didn't get their 3% in September.
GREED is not a suitable word to be used when talking about teachersSay for example teachers and general public sector pay is cut to bring government expenditure in line with last years expenditure..bearing in mind that pay and numbers have already been cut yet goverment expenditure this year will be higher than last year due to servicing the national debt and increased numbers on social welfare...Where do we go next?
Note: I am not a teacher
More paycuts and job losses for the public sector, the lower paid in the public sector are still overpaid for what they do.We need to lower Public Sector expenditure across all sectors (including judical system etc.)
Lower Social Welfare payments
This should in turn lead to lower prices in the general economy making us more competitive.
Work on industries which are still strong here (e.g. Pharmaceutical Industry), not just talking about grants but encourage biomedical and R and D hubs like they are doing in India.
Increase support for exporters (€250m is a bit of a novel figure) and ensure that Ireland gets out of this recession by attracting hard foreign currency over personal borrowed monies from abroad which was the case since 2002.
This in turn should lead to more jobs and more spin off industries (incl. general services) which will create real employment and reduce our national debt.
We are not going to attract enough investment or jobs here until out cost base gets more competitive.0 -
I agree with pretty much everything here, although I would prefer to see more indigenous industries! Why the government are spending 7bn between Anglo Irish bank and the National Pension Reserve fund I do not understand. This money would be far better spent on creating jobs!
Good point, that's exactly what the likes of India are doing. Foreign comapnies are given incentives to go there on condition that they have to pair off with a local company who will own 50% of the new investment.
Now that system wouldn't suit Ireland in reality big corporations won't swallow this from us.
Lets not make no bones about this however, we've had Pfizer, Leo, GSK, Schering-Plough etc etc all heavies locating here. We've also seen homegrown Clonmel Healthcare and Gerard Labs growing and thriving. Unfortunately these have both been sold off and are no longer in Irish hands.
There is room for Irish industry to grow and thrive. I believe that the constant "we don't give a sh*t about the small and medium business man once it's not a builder" attitude by FF over the last 5-10 years has been the nail in the coffin for a lot of would be Irish entrepeneurs. This needs to be (and is being amazingly if you look at local enterprise board schemes) addressed and geared towards exports. It can be done once Irish people have the attitude to do it.
Personally I plan to emigrate soon, and hope to come back in 5 years with a viable business venture. There is probably a small chance it will be actually successful but I'll try. But if this country is still the same, if the public sector and social welfare bill is still so high, if taxes on "the rich" are through the roof I will either a) stay away or b) become an employee. And there are plenty of others out there thinking the same. If the government wants to get us out of a recession it needs to support exports full stop.
With regards the banks that really is a different story. If a would be business man can't get credit no new businesses can be set up. That's the long and short of it-banks are a necessary evil whatever way you go to work.0 -
Socondary teachers are compelled to work a 22 hour week.
They get 2 weeks off at christmas. 12 weeks off in summer. 1 week off in Haloween and 1 (or is it 2?) weeks off in Easter.
So by my count they get at least 16 weeks off during the year.
Normally workers get 4 weeks off.
So teachers work 12 weeks less a year.
Average earnings €60,000.
52 weeks - 12 weeks (lets leave the 4 weeks statutory out of it) = 40 weeks.
€60,000/40 weeks = €1,500 per week / 22 hours = €68.1 per hour.
Based on CSO numbers, a typical primary teacher, paid an average of €62,000 a year.The average second-level teacher, on a slightly higher, salary of €67,000. How many graduates working 40 hour weeks (21 days Holidays a year) earn this in private sector.0 -
i think you ( Head the wall) don't understand my point but I'll try and explain it to you again. If teachers teach their classes and go home at 4 and do nothing with extracurricular activities they get paid a salary. If they stay behind each day and help with extra curricular activities they get paid the same salary. Taking these extra duties is not part of their job desrciption, some do them, some don't. Legally they do not have to do anything extra and that is a fact. Your taxes do not provide these extracurricular services. Generous, enthusiastic teachers volunteer their time to provide them. I am not a liar, this is the way it is. I do not get paid 50 euro an hour for this.0
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Sorry you are wrong. teachers stay back in the evenings, lunch time, come in before school to organise and run these activities and do not have to do it, nor do they get paid for it. They do it because they recognise the value it will bring. Teachers are employed and paid to teach their classes and anything else is voluntary. It's a pity you have to resort to name calling, just shows you are wrong and have no other argument or worthwhile contribution to make!
I am sorry, but that is not true in 99% of the cases. Secondary teachers often leave before school ends as their classes are over- and I don't really have a problem with it. As for coming in early- everyone tries to come to work early- you are either early or late!
And even if it is true that many teachers spend hours preparing for school, I don't see why it would be at secondary- maybe primary, so what? Programmers are constantly working in the evenings/nights- sometimes directly on the project, other times learning about new frameworks, languages etc. People in finance for large companies are expected to work extra hours, aswell as saturdays, at quarter end so they can get their finanical reports to their shareholders- either of these gets overtime, it's just viewed as doing a good job.0 -
heavyballs wrote: »lets leave the prison guards etc out of this for now
with the average primary school teachers annual salary €60k added to the fact that they have the summer hols off and finish at 3 or half 3 in the afternoon, can you defent that?
The standard of teaching that i have experienced in this country is really bad,most of the older one's i've come in to contact with myself and through my kids are just going through the motions,
I'm not saying it's the easiest of jobs but if you're good at your job you'll enjoy it.The teachers that give out are the one's that cant handle the kids.
It must be tough leaving school every day before the traffic gets bad and then spending your summer holidays on the beach,and then they get all high and mighty when i take my kids out of school for a holiday in May as i couldn't afford it in the peak season.
You can take your hols anytime during the summer,no expence spared.
Do you have a holiday home like most of your colleagues?
Give an honest answer as threee of my wife's friends are teachers in the 30's and 40's so was just wondering.
Ok, i mentioned the nurses and prison officers because someone said teachers were the first to say they were striking, which is not true. Certainly, there are teachers out there that go into work with the wrong attitude, as there are in other sectors, and i'm sure i will get everyone coming back saying it isin't so, but from many many experiences this is total utter nonsense.
Secondly, i work from 9 til 4. When i travel to work i deal with the same commute problems everyone else deals with, by the way this is ridiculous, to say that we have to take a pay cut because we aren't stuck behind as many red lights as you is just scraping the end of the barrel in terms of this discussion. I travel 72km each day to and from work.
I am a secondary school teacher, so as you know we don't finish the same time as primary schools. As for school holidays, i don't choose how long my holidays are, they are given to me. I am sorry not everyone receives the same but really once again it isin't something I can change. I am a non permanent teacher with a take home pay of 400 a wk. So to assume the minute we get a job teaching we are all searching for the next best holiday is once again rubbish. Just shows how little most know about the sector. When you go into your childrens schools, just count how many teachers are there under the age of 35. Then find out how many have a contract next yr. So sick of repeating myself, people prob sick of reading it.
I know i am doing a good job, based on my students leaving and jnr cert results. That is what i am required to do. I appreciate the fact that you have stated that you don't believe it is an easy job. I don't know your age or where you are from, but i can imagine schools have changed alot from when you attended them. I don't want to go into details because once again i will get screamed at, but you have to realise that the issues i deal with every day are disregarded by most. If it was just teaching, honestly, i would be much, much more submissive, but its not. You don't realise the amount of abuse we endure every day from the media, yourselves and students, because other teachers are taking the p. I work as hard as i can, but at the same time i am only teaching for 6 years, so can be let go just as easily as anyone in the private sector.
P.s. I know of one teacher who has a holiday home, not in my school, but he actually built that with his brother, so don't know if it counts?0 -
i think you ( Head the wall) don't understand my point but I'll try and explain it to you again. If teachers teach their classes and go home at 4 and do nothing with extracurricular activities they get paid a salary. If they stay behind each day and help with extra curricular activities they get paid the same salary. Taking these extra duties is not part of their job desrciption, some do them, some don't. Legally they do not have to do anything extra and that is a fact. Your taxes do not provide these extracurricular services. Generous, enthusiastic teachers volunteer their time to provide them. I am not a liar, this is the way it is. I do not get paid 50 euro an hour for this.
simple question.Do you think in any way ,shape or form that considering your salary and your time off and early finishing time are you hard done by?
a simple yes or no would suffice if you wish0 -
my wife is being made redundant, after ten years with the same company. the 24th of november is her last day.
feck the teachers. feck the lot of them.
explain to me in one sentence how a pay cut reduces the quality of teaching our children will get?0 -
heavyballs wrote: »simple question.Do you think in any way ,shape or form that considering your salary and your time off and early finishing time are you hard done by?
a simple yes or no would suffice if you wish
Just another simple question for you, if you believe its so great why aren't you teaching?0 -
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Ok, i mentioned the nurses and prison officers because someone said teachers were the first to say they were striking, which is not true. Certainly, there are teachers out there that go into work with the wrong attitude, as there are in other sectors, and i'm sure i will get everyone coming back saying it isin't so, but from many many experiences this is total utter nonsense.
Secondly, i work from 9 til 4. When i travel to work i deal with the same commute problems everyone else deals with, by the way this is ridiculous, to say that we have to take a pay cut because we aren't stuck behind as many red lights as you is just scraping the end of the barrel in terms of this discussion. I travel 72km each day to and from work.
I am a secondary school teacher, so as you know we don't finish the same time as primary schools. As for school holidays, i don't choose how long my holidays are, they are given to me. I am sorry not everyone receives the same but really once again it isin't something I can change. I am a non permanent teacher with a take home pay of 400 a wk. So to assume the minute we get a job teaching we are all searching for the next best holiday is once again rubbish. Just shows how little most know about the sector. When you go into your childrens schools, just count how many teachers are there under the age of 35. Then find out how many have a contract next yr. So sick of repeating myself, people prob sick of reading it.
I know i am doing a good job, based on my students leaving and jnr cert results. That is what i am required to do. I appreciate the fact that you have stated that you don't believe it is an easy job. I don't know your age or where you are from, but i can imagine schools have changed alot from when you attended them. I don't want to go into details because once again i will get screamed at, but you have to realise that the issues i deal with every day are disregarded by most. If it was just teaching, honestly, i would be much, much more submissive, but its not. You don't realise the amount of abuse we endure every day from the media, yourselves and students, because other teachers are taking the p. I work as hard as i can, but at the same time i am only teaching for 6 years, so can be let go just as easily as anyone in the private sector.
P.s. I know of one teacher who has a holiday home, not in my school, but he actually built that with his brother, so don't know if it counts?
listen that was not designed as an attack on you ,i agree some pupilsare beyond teaching imo due to the way there brought up at home.
I myself teach kids soccer,i do it because i love it but i can only go on my own experiences,the teachers in my son's school on the most part don't enjoy their jobs(i'm moving him nexy year)i know from a friend of one of the teachers that the teachers don't get on at all and there is a lot of tension in the teachers room,this seems to be very common across the board,the older stogy teachers bullying their younger counterparts in their archaic ways and views0 -
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Just another simple question for you, if you believe its so great why aren't you teaching?
well i do teach kids soccer actually,i'm very strict with them,never taken any jip from the start and they respect that and btw i teach in a foreign school also where soccer in mandatory so most of the kids arn't exactly happy yo be there but still i'm the boss
Maybe some weak teachers should use the same approach,fact is it's not for everyone and some only realize this when they are a few years into it,however as you're on to a winner as soon as your permenent why leave?
By the way i also have a day job,70 hours a week(12 for free)i'm not complaining though0 -
heavyballs wrote: »simple question.Do you think in any way ,shape or form that considering your salary and your time off and early finishing time are you hard done by?
a simple yes or no would suffice if you wish
still waiting.......0 -
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simple question, simple answer. No. But if we take another pay cut and conditions are worsened further then that will change to YES. Glad to hear you're the boss when in charge of kids soccer, since they all want to be there anyway! Fair play to you.heavyballs wrote: »still waiting.......
Just curious as to what work you do for free 12 hours a week?
And when you say you're not complaining, actually you seem to be giving out quite a lot here!!0 -
Here's a revelation for you. In the real world, people do what they are good at. Some are good at teaching, some are good doctors , some are good a building walls. Now, again the the real world, if you are bad at your chosen job, you will get fired or poorly paid and have to look elsewhere for your career. It seems this doesn't apply in the public sector though.Yeah answer that0 -
Just another simple question for you, if you believe its so great why aren't you teaching?
I personally am not cut out for teaching, like a lot of teachers.your colleagues. I also prefer to be in a job that I enjoy something that can't be said for a lot of teachers. If you don't like it leave although the amount of bitter teachers in the country leads me to believe that they have sold their happiness for the green backs. How many teachers or other public sector workers leave their job0 -
Head The Wall wrote: »I personally am not cut out for teaching, like a lot of teachers.your colleagues. I also prefer to be in a job that I enjoy something that can't be said for a lot of teachers. If you don't like it leave although the amount of bitter teachers in the country leads me to believe that they have sold their happiness for the green backs. How many teachers or other public sector workers leave their job
...seems it's not just teachers who are bitter.....0 -
Some of you guys are personalising this as per usual. If you all stop that there'll be less idiocy in this thread.
That's an instruction to stop it. You shouldn't need one but for some reason you do.
/mod
Apart from Churchill never having said that (despite the number of times you may have heard it - it's a François Guizot quote by the way, not Churchill and there's no evidence of Churchill having said it or the version that came before it), he was a Conservative at 24 and a Liberal from 30 to 50 (now read the quote again). I softly suggest using real quotes that don't fail their own recursive test. Or not using quotes and instead using some first principles argument, of which I'm a particular fan.As Churchill said “Any man who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has not heart; and any man who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has no brains.”0 -
heavyballs wrote: »well i do teach kids soccer actually,i'm very strict with them,never taken any jip from the start and they respect that and btw i teach in a foreign school also where soccer in mandatory so most of the kids arn't exactly happy yo be there but still i'm the boss
Maybe some weak teachers should use the same approach,fact is it's not for everyone and some only realize this when they are a few years into it,however as you're on to a winner as soon as your permenent why leave?
By the way i also have a day job,70 hours a week(12 for free)i'm not complaining though
I do appreciate you are not attacking me:) Finally someone who has a notion! I think with certain students, this strict, don't- mess- with -me approach is great, but then i can name the students this won't happen with. First i would love it if all kids had uncomplicated lives, it would make me a happier person. Some students though don't respond to this, you learn that very early on. There is one student who has made several sexually explicit comments to a young teacher, the student is only 15, but has been caught with drugs outside of school and sells fags to the younger kids, his poor parents are lovely, except he has been getting away with it all his life. He has no fear of discipline, and the school has to be careful because these days one students rights are more important than many students rights. You know we can't expel him, doesn't work like that anymore. In the confines of a classroom, i would imagine, for a teacher who doesn't have strong control, it can be very scary. Honestly, i do love my job, love my subject, and generally (i hope) the kids do appreciate the work i do with them individually, but you will always find someone who isin't happy for whatever reasons, and they will always have the loudest voice. If the country was full of weak teachers, we would not have the exceptionally skilled work force out there today, some of us must be doin something right. So, so sorry this was so long!:)0 -
So, if I say 37k, everything I said is ok, but if it's over 67, it's not? I'd have to check my diary, think it's 50k. Regardless of what it is, I didn't go to college to be paid sh*t. If I wanted money, there are far more lucrative professions I could have gone in to. Sorry truth is, I love my job, despite the crap that's been thrown at us in the last couple of years.
It's is a 10% paycut! That's why we are raging at the prospect of having to take another 7-10%, while the conditions of our schools deteriorate.
Afaik, this public service strike day was announced long before the results of the teachers' ballot was known. I'm aware that pain is coming, I just want fairness and pitting two sides of the economy (who as has been pointed out, depend on each other) against each other isn't going to get us out of this mess. I would accept my cut if for example, my friends in accounting, marketing and the law profession were being hit too.
you may love your job but many people with degrees and qualifications and had to "suffer college" (give me a break), are getting paid far less than the average national school teacher in this country, its not your fault you are overpaid but please will all ye teachers out there stop believing you are actually worth these over inflated salaries compared with the rest of Europe - in general teachers get paid about 40% more than their counterparts in the UK - but the cost of living is not 40% higher over here.
A lot of public servants are overpaid as a result of the economic disaster of benchmarking - you do a good job but you are overpaid for it get used to the idea that even with a 10% cut you will still be overpaid by an international standards
In any event the government is your employer it they have not money and can't pay ye the rates you enjoy now what are you going to do exactly if they cut your wages - Write a strongly worded post on Boards.ie?
BTW us lot in the private sector want fairness too - and so far we can't see it.0 -
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A lot of public servants are overpaid as a result of the economic disaster of benchmarking
So why not just unwind the benchmarking and have a new one. Present cuts are based on giving everyone the same cut, whether they got 3% or 27% in benchmarking, or cutting people based on their salary, which has nothing to do with the relationship with the private sector at all.0 -
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simple question, simple answer. No. But if we take another pay cut and conditions are worsened further then that will change to YES. Glad to hear you're the boss when in charge of kids soccer, since they all want to be there anyway! Fair play to you.
Just curious as to what work you do for free 12 hours a week?
And when you say you're not complaining, actually you seem to be giving out quite a lot here!!
well i get paid for workin in a school(great rate) and i volunteer for 2 local soccer teams also,and no my son doesn't play for them(that would be the norm)
also did you not read this
"well i do teach kids soccer actually,i'm very strict with them,never taken any jip from the start and they respect that and btw i teach in a foreign school also where soccer in mandatory so most of the kids arn't exactly happy yo be there but still i'm the boss"
The majority of them don't want to be there fyi.0
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