Dark side of the Marathon

tunguska

christeb wrote: »

Step AWAY from the astro! At my level I'm allowed the odd game , but for a someone like yourself, you're putting so much time and effort into your training, personally I wouldn't be anywhere near a pitch. Not worth the risk IMO

Youre right of course Christeb, I mean I still cant bend my right leg back properly. But as you know the lure of football is a strong one.........and the games we have are so good. The lads take it very seriously, every game is like the European cup final.
On a side note I saw you bombing down exchequer street, tuesday, on a rented bike, in your slick looking work clobber. I was right behind you on the road bike. Those rental bikes are fierce handy though.

christeb

Does that mean I beat you in a commuter-race on a Dublinbike?!

tunguska

christeb wrote: »

Does that mean I beat you in a commuter-race on a Dublinbike?!

Yes you did, But in fairness you had a head start:)

ike

villagerunner has often mentioned this log to me and I've just read over it. Good stuff tunguska, really liking your no nonsense approach to the training, definately think people aiming for times like yours can learn a lot from what guys did back in the 80's. Even a middle of the pack runner like me can learn a lot from this. Best of luck I've just subscribed...!

aero2k

Hi tunguska,

I'm really enjoying the no-nonsense, no-compromise approach in this log. I can empathasise with your not wanting to have to defend your methods - that's one of the reasons I don't write a log. I've no problem talking about my training after the event, but I don't want to add another possible source of mental stress in the lead-up, so kudos to you for putting it out there.
I'm trying to increase my weekly mileage at the moment, throwing in some hill sessions, and I'll also be working up to some long runs relatively early in my prep (for Edinburgh 23 May), but the whole thing will be a lot less hard core than you. I may even have a gel or two...sh1t, did I say that out loud.....?!

tunguska

Thursday 26th November:

Training partner has a slight injury to his achilles so last nights planned track session with him turned into a tempo run for me and the Garmin. Good stuff though, first tempo since before the marathon.

10 miles @6:10/mile

On an unrelated matter, went to see a preview of "Paranormal activity" last night and I have to say it rattled me big time. Im not easily scared at all and theres only 3 or 4 films Ive seen in my entire life that have put the hook in me. But this got me. Even my mate, whos even less easily scared than me was looking a little pale after.

misty floyd

tunguska wrote: »

On an unrelated matter, went to see a preview of "Paranormal activity" last night and I have to say it rattled me big time. Im not easily scared at all and theres only 3 or 4 films Ive seen in my entire life that have put the hook in me. But this got me. Even my mate, whos even less easily scared than me was looking a little pale after.

Have you seen the new Coen brothers movie? Read a good review of it today and can't wait to see it. I just love their stuff. Might watch fargo again this weekend, its been so long.

Abhainn

tunguska wrote: »

Thursday 26th November:

Training partner has a slight injury to his achilles so last nights planned track session with him turned into a tempo run for me and the Garmin. Good stuff though, first tempo since before the marathon.

10 miles @6:10/mile

tunguska enjoying your log. Your training plan is definately a bit different than most.
I finished 2 mins behind you in Dublin but right now I don't think I could have kept with you in that tempo run

tunguska

misty floyd wrote: »

Have you seen the new Cohen brothers movie? Read a good review of it today and can't wait to see it. I just love their stuff. Might watch fargo again this weekend, its been so long.

No I havent seen it yet but I might go tomoorow night or sunday. Apparently its the Coen brothers in "the man who wasnt there" mode, which is fine by me.
Saw the men who star at goats aswell, disappointing. Although Jeff Bridges is brilliant in it and plays the closest thing to the dude since The big Lebowski. I know you hate it when people give away parts of a film but theres a scene where jeff bridges jumps off the roof of a house thinking his zen-like state will protect him from injury.......worth the price of admission alone. This is turning into a movie review log. Again, fine by me.

misty floyd

tunguska wrote: »

This is turning into a movie review log. Again, fine by me.

Rather talk about the use of Gels?

You probably watch movies these days whilst running on a threadmill? Savage training, fair play.

tunguska

misty floyd wrote: »

Rather talk about the use of Gels?

You probably watch movies these days whilst running on a threadmill? Savage training, fair play.

I think the gel thing could turn out to be my Saipan.............

I see Lynrd skynrd are playing the o2. Kiss aswell. Two great gigs.

tunguska

Saturday 28th November:

Long run was planned for tomorrow(sunday)but the weather is so perfect that Im gonna do it this evening. Gonna shoot for 26.2 miles, @ 7mins/mile. Little nervous though, dont know why, have done this distance and more in training before the dublin marathon........gonna be cold and the ice bath after will ensure that its monday before im warm again.

village runner

will be interested to see how your speed works goes nxt week.
I really hope you stay injury free cos what will i have to read if you are injured.

tunguska

village runner wrote: »

will be interested to see how your speed works goes nxt week.
I really hope you stay injury free cos what will i have to read if you are injured.

Dont worry VR I wont get injured.......famous last words

aero2k

tunguska wrote: »

I think the gel thing could turn out to be my Saipan.............

At least the journey home isn't as far....do you have a dog to walk?

I see Lynrd skynrd are playing the o2. Kiss aswell. Two great gigs.

Great venue too.

Hope that 26.2 goes well, a bit foggy out there....

christeb

You are a mile-eating monster - fair dues

tunguska

Saturday 28th november:

24.11miles

average pace = 7.03mins/mile

Not the 26 I said I was gonna do but decent enough anyway. Was rightly F u c k e d after 24 and the miles were turning to crap so I said I'd leave it at that. Sure its the first 24miler since the marathon so maybe jumping from 22 - 26 was too much too soon. Anyway I'll go same again this week but this time I'll aim to do it a bit quicker. Stick at 24miles for this week and next then I'll jump to 26.........well thats the plan anyway but I'll probably go for the 26 this weekend anyway.
Great run though, perfect conditions. Nice and cold, no wind and some really cool fog. Knocked out 6:40s - 6:50s for 18 miles or so then I had some climbs to contend with so I slowed down a fair bit. But Overall fairly happy with it.
Check it out:

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/19857212

and heres the splits if anybody is interested:

http://connect.garmin.com/splits/19857212


Sunday 29th November:

10.5miles @7:20/mile

Felt ok after the long one on saturday although the 13hrs sleep I had after might have something to do with that.

Monday 30th November:

(1) 11.5 miles @ 7:10/mile (am)

Felt a bit heavy legged for this one, but ok none the less.

(2) 10.5 miles planned for this evening. Will crank up the pace to 6:50 after this mornings sluggish effort.

shels4ever

Just wondered do you have much of a difference in pace from your long runs to your faster runs?

Wilbury

This log is savage.... better than any book. Not only can you run but you have great taste in music too!!!

Krusty_Clown

Fair play to you Tunguska. Just played your long run on Garmin Connect. I couldn't face doing repeat loops like that. Would drive me mental! I always feel duty bound to find a 20 mile out and back loop, but would only do a small fraction of your running. I suppose you get immune to doing the same route again and again eventually?

tunguska

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Fair play to you Tunguska. Just played your long run on Garmin Connect. I couldn't face doing repeat loops like that. Would drive me mental! I always feel duty bound to find a 20 mile out and back loop, but would only do a small fraction of your running. I suppose you get immune to doing the same route again and again eventually?

You do get immune to it, I dont even notice to be honest. I just focus on the mile Im doing at the time and try to run it in the time Ive alloted myself for each mile. Plus the good thing about doing a loop like that is I can hydrate easily. I bring a bottle of water with me, dump it someplace along the loop and pick it up anytime I need it.

TheRoadRunner

any races planned tunguska ?

tunguska

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

any races planned tunguska ?

Yeah here they are:

Donore Harriers 5k - Saturday 5th dec

BHAA 5k Marley park - Sunday 6th Dec

Aware 10k - Saturday 12th Dec

Athenry 10k - 26th dec

5k race in phoenix park - New years day(cant remember the name of that one)

Raheny shamrock 5 miler - Dont know the date

Paddys day 5k -

Great Ireland 10k - sometime in april

Rotterdamn marathon - April again

Wexford half marathon - I think its early may

Tri athy - June banker, either that or cork marathon)

Addidas race series after that will take me up to.......

Dublin marathon - October

ecoli

tunguska wrote: »

Yeah here they are:

Donore Harriers 5k - Saturday 5th dec

BHAA 5k Marley park - Sunday 6th Dec

Aware 10k - Saturday 12th Dec

Athenry 10k - 26th dec

5k race in phoenix park - New years day(cant remember the name of that one)

Raheny shamrock 5 miler - Dont know the date

Paddys day 5k -

Great Ireland 10k - sometime in april

Rotterdamn marathon - April again

Wexford half marathon - I think its early may

Tri athy - June banker, either that or cork marathon)

Addidas race series after that will take me up to.......

Dublin marathon - October

Are you sacrificing a LSR this weekend or are you doing it during the week?

TheRoadRunner

tunguska wrote: »

Yeah here they are:

Donore Harriers 5k - Saturday 5th dec

BHAA 5k Marley park - Sunday 6th Dec

Aware 10k - Saturday 12th Dec

Athenry 10k - 26th dec

5k race in phoenix park - New years day(cant remember the name of that one)

Raheny shamrock 5 miler - Dont know the date

Paddys day 5k -

Great Ireland 10k - sometime in april

Rotterdamn marathon - April again

Wexford half marathon - I think its early may

Tri athy - June banker, either that or cork marathon)

Addidas race series after that will take me up to.......

Dublin marathon - October

Cheers. Doing some of them myself as I have a marathon lined up in April also (fingers crossed, all hail the running gods). I've ran a minute slower than you for the marathon (assuming Dublin 09 is your pb) so will be interested to compare and contrast our race times as I won't be doing the same high intensity mileage you are planning on doing. See you on the start line

Peckham

Interesting that none of your races pre-Rotterdam are over 10k, is this intentional? Although, I suppose Rotterdam isn't your target.

village runner

Peckham wrote: »

Interesting that none of your races pre-Rotterdam are over 10k, is this intentional? Although, I suppose Rotterdam isn't your target.

What races are you doing in prep for london ??
Any half planned ?

tunguska

ecoli wrote: »

Are you sacrificing a LSR this weekend or are you doing it during the week?

No I'll do a 21 miler sunday evening, which will bring me up to 24 for the day. Did this after the rathfarnham 5k and it worked out well enough, Two birds with the one stone: speed session and a long run.

tunguska

Peckham wrote: »

Interesting that none of your races pre-Rotterdam are over 10k, is this intentional? Although, I suppose Rotterdam isn't your target.

I hadnt even noticed that to be honest. I'll see if theres a half marathon knocking about. Cheers

village runner

tunguska wrote: »

I hadnt even noticed that to be honest. I'll see if theres a half marathon knocking about. Cheers

Ballycotton three weeks before Rotterdam. Couldnt plan it better.

tunguska

village runner wrote: »

Ballycotton three weeks before Rotterdam. Couldnt plan it better.

Ballycotton it is.

village runner

tunguska wrote: »

Ballycotton it is.

Chance of that tshirt slipping away everytime i tell a better runner to do it.
Assuming you are a member of a club you have till Dec 15th but the sooner the better.
I would expect 56 min out of you if not 55.

ecoli

tunguska wrote: »

No I'll do a 21 miler sunday evening, which will bring me up to 24 for the day. Did this after the rathfarnham 5k and it worked out well enough, Two birds with the one stone: speed session and a long run.

I remember you saying that before i would just bhe worried two races in two days could be threading a fine line inviting injury but i suppose what doesnt kill you will make you stronger. Touch wood you can come through it okay best of luck i will be out on sat myself what kinda time you targeting?

Peckham

village runner wrote: »

Ballycotton three weeks before Rotterdam. Couldnt plan it better.

If you'd rather go the half marathon distance....

Larne half on March 20th (think this one comes recommended by Stupid Private)

or

Omagh half on March 27th

TheRoadRunner

Peckham wrote: »

If you'd rather go the half marathon distance....

Larne half on March 20th (think this one comes recommended by Stupid Private)

or

Omagh half on March 27th

Or you could do both

tunguska

village runner wrote: »

Chance of that tshirt slipping away everytime i tell a better runner to do it.
Assuming you are a member of a club you have till Dec 15th but the sooner the better.
I would expect 56 min out of you if not 55.

Yeah I heard about those T-shirts alright, great idea to give the first 100 finishers a special shirt. Defo be shooting for 55 though.
What about you VR?

tunguska

ecoli wrote: »

I remember you saying that before i would just bhe worried two races in two days could be threading a fine line inviting injury but i suppose what doesnt kill you will make you stronger. Touch wood you can come through it okay best of luck i will be out on sat myself what kinda time you targeting?

Actually I might have to skip sundays race, I'll know by friday if I can run it or not. But I'll definitely do saturdays one. The old speed is still not back up to pre-marathon standards so I'll have to be conservative in what I'll aim for. Using the race for speed work more than anything so I dunno about setting a PB. But having said that I'll definitely go sub 17, after that who knows.
What about you ecoli, I reckon with your speed you'll be aiming for sub 16?

ecoli

tunguska wrote: »

Actually I might have to skip sundays race, I'll know by friday if I can run it or not. But I'll definitely do saturdays one. The old speed is still not back up to pre-marathon standards so I'll have to be conservative in what I'll aim for. Using the race for speed work more than anything so I dunno about setting a PB. But having said that I'll definitely go sub 17, after that who knows.
What about you ecoli, I reckon with your speed you'll be aiming for sub 16?

still in heavy training so i dunno anything around 16.30 is and ill be pleased enough but with a heavy session tomorrow i dunno. will definitely be good for your speed alright

Slogger Jogger

Your training log is a great read. I hope the tough training and high mileage works out for you Tunguska. I'm applying some elements of your treadmill sessions now to my own (slower and less tough though :rolleyes:)

Ballycotton looks good. Speaking of special teeshirts, my special t for the year was one I got for completing the imra Irish championship series. Only 3 races need to be done out of 5. Worth looking at for next year, as you'd see from the Firenze marathon post the good that the hills has done the likes of Bazman.

tunguska

Log is a bit all over the gaff at the moment so I better do a little tidying up..........

Summary of training week (2)

Sunday 22nd November:

12.5 miles

Monday 23rd November:

(1) 10.5 miles (am)

(2) 5 miles (pm)

Tuesday 24th November:

Due to strikeage and the like I had to miss training that day(unfortunately I am a government employee). But like I said not too concerned as its early days and I'll just shift my day off from saturday to tuesday.

Wednesday 25th November:

(1) 6 miles (am) treadmill interval session

(2) 10.5miles @ 7 mins per mile (pm)

Thursday 26th November:

10 mile tempo run @ 6:10/mile

Friday 27th November:

10.5 miles easy (think it was 7:10/mile)

Saturday 28th November:

24.11 miles @7:00mins/mile

So I'll call that for the training week:

Total mileage: 90miles(approx)

Week 3

Sunday 29th November:

10.5 miles @7:20/mile

Monday 30th November:

(1) 11.5 miles@ 7:10/mile(am)

(2) was meant to do another session that evening but right knee was giving me trouble.........well more specifically, the right VMO was acting up. Gave it a miss and did trigger point therapy on VMO and was brand new pretty quickly.

Tuesday 1st December:

10.5miles @ 6:50/mile

Wednesday 2nd December:

(1) 10.5 miles (semi-tempo run)

- 5 miles @ 5:50
- 5.5 miles @6:45
Was gonna do 10 miles @ 5:50 - 6mins/mile but rembered that tomorrow is training with the club so that'll be brutal enough anyway, but also racing at the weekend.

(2) This evening will do a handy 5 miles.

tunguska

On an unrelated matter.........."National Lampoons Christmas vacation" is on TG4 tonight at 12:50 in the am. Late, I know, but you gotta love the christmas vacation.

--amadeus--

tunguska wrote: »

Saturday 28th november:

24.11miles

average pace = 7.03mins/mile

Not the 26 I said I was gonna do but decent enough anyway. Was rightly F u c k e d after 24 and the miles were turning to crap

How far off the pace had you dropped by the end?

The reason I'm asking (and I'm risking reopening Gelgate :eek:) is that I did a couple of marathon training cycles without gels, for very similar reasons to yourself. And I found the exact same thing happening - albeit at a slower pace and earlier point. I found that between 16 - 18 miles nto an LSR I'd start to lose time, drifting out to 60 secs or more over target pace.

In the end I went back to training with gels on the basis I wasn't getting any benefit from running so slowly and my recovery was so compromised. It'll be interesting to see how your LSRs develop - if you can train past it and teach your body to maintain pace then I assume others could too.

(edit, I'm not taking a pop at you not using gels or asking you to comment on that, just interested in you sounding like you might have had similar symptoms to me and I'm looking for common cause, please ignore if you don't want to discuss!!)

tunguska

--amadeus-- wrote: »

How far off the pace had you dropped by the end?

The reason I'm asking (and I'm risking reopening Gelgate :eek:) is that I did a couple of marathon training cycles without gels, for very similar reasons to yourself. And I found the exact same thing happening - albeit at a slower pace and earlier point. I found that between 16 - 18 miles nto an LSR I'd start to lose time, drifting out to 60 secs or more over target pace.

In the end I went back to training with gels on the basis I wasn't getting any benefit from running so slowly and my recovery was so compromised. It'll be interesting to see how your LSRs develop - if you can train past it and teach your body to maintain pace then I assume others could too.

(edit, I'm not taking a pop at you not using gels or asking you to comment on that, just interested in you sounding like you might have had similar symptoms to me and I'm looking for common cause, please ignore if you don't want to discuss!!)

I actually wasnt that far off the pace in the end because I had said that I wanted to do the run at 7mins/mile. So I was only 3 seconds out. But I did slow down because I was knocking out the miles at 6:40-6:50 before that. But Its ok because that happened to me before when I was training for the marathon. What happens is over the course of a few weeks that drop in the pace near the end stops happening and Im able to complete the entire run at the exact same pace. For me it has nothing to do with gels or anything like that, there was nothing I couldve eaten or drank that wouldve done anything for the drop in pace on that run. Like I said though that drop in pace will sort itself out pretty quickly, Id go as far to say that my long run this weekend will be a lot more solid.

Magnet

This is a Fantastic log and as my own weekly mileage was around 60 to 80+ Im interested to see how to get more miles in by double training days, but 4 doubles?!?!
How much sleep do you get?
Do you have a flexible job, office job 9-5 or a job sitting down - I ask because I work 50+ hrs and mostly standing up so some days I can hardly walk after never mind run...?!?!

tunguska

Magnet wrote: »

This is a Fantastic log and as my own weekly mileage was around 60 to 80+ Im interested to see how to get more miles in by double training days, but 4 doubles?!?!
How much sleep do you get?
Do you have a flexible job, office job 9-5 or a job sitting down - I ask because I work 50+ hrs and mostly standing up so some days I can hardly walk after never mind run...?!?!

Hi Magnet,
I wouldnt work even close to 50hrs/week. Fair play to you, working that volume of hrs and still manage 80miles/week, thats top class committment. The most Id work in any week would be
34hrs and its a mixture of being on my feet and sitting. I manage a fair amount of sleep every night, minimum 9hrs, and after long run days I'll take 12hrs sleep.
The doubles can be difficult sometimes, you come home from work and all you wanna do is sit down and relax. So it can be a real test of my committment to get on the running gear after work. But what I do to make it easy on myself is I'll say that I'll just go for a nice jog after work. I love to run and Id do it anyway even if I wasnt competing so a jog is a treat not a chore. Plus the roads are empty at that hour anyway so theres nobody around which makes it a nice run.

tunguska

Thursday 3rd December:

Bit of an epic session..........

(1) Had to go out to leinster clinic in Maynooth and I havent had a long one on the bike in a while so I cycled out. 17 miles out, 17 miles back, so 34 miles in total. Really nice cycle.

(2) Then it was back for training with the club on the track:

10 x 400m @ 73secs/400 with 47secs recovery between(2minute cycles).

Then we left the track and did 11 miles @ 6:50/mile

stipes212

Then WE left the track and did 11 miles @ 6:50/mile[/QUOTE]

Unbelievable session, is this done by the whole group, or just yourself?
Fantastic log bw.

tunguska

stipes212 wrote: »

Then WE left the track and did 11 miles @ 6:50/mile

Unbelievable session, is this done by the whole group, or just yourself?
Fantastic log bw.[/quote]

Sorry Stipes I shouldve been more specific, I did 11miles, the others did a 3 mile loop and called it quits. But in fairness to them theyre not in training for a marathon at the moment. Normally my regular training partner would do what I do but he's nursing a bit of an achilles problem right now so it was just me doing the full 11 miles after.

tunguska

Saturday 5th December:

Donore Harriers 5k(I cant refer to it as the "Jingle bells 5k".........ok I just did, but its a ridiculous name for a race with such a good quality field).

Just back form this race. Did 17:02 or thereabouts(my timing, not offical timing).
First race since marathon so not bad. Having said that it shouldve been a sub 17min performance. Need to take the speed work up a notch in training.
Gonna run the bhaa 5k tomorrow just to see if I can do better.

christeb

tunguska wrote: »

Saturday 5th December:

Donore Harriers 5k(I cant refer to it as the "Jingle bells 5k".........ok I just did, but its a ridiculous name for a race with such a good quality field).

Just back form this race. Did 17:02 or thereabouts(my timing, not offical timing).
First race since marathon so not bad. Having said that it shouldve been a sub 17min performance. Need to take the speed work up a notch in training.
Gonna run the bhaa 5k tomorrow just to see if I can do better.

"I didn't run a sub-17 today so I'll do it tomorrow" - brilliant! What do you feel went wrong (or not quite right) today? Do you think your legs will be in better shape tomorrow?