Now here's a project the RSA could get their teeth into

peasant

The german ADAC (equivalent to the AA) in conjunction with the fire departments and the car manufacturers is currently working on a database on how to best rescue people out of cars that have crashed.

The problem these days is twofold:

- modern cars are strenghtened (sometimes very elaborately) with extra strong and rigid steel profiles that may stump even the jaws of life when they try to crack them. The fire department needs to know where and how to cut to actually get injured people out of their crashed vehicles

- also, modern cars are crammed with electronics and explosive devices (airbags and belt pre-tensioners) that your friendly fireman definetly doesn't want to interfere with if he values his life

Below is a sample picure of what that information looks like on a simple graphic



The symbols show strenghtened areas, batteries and ECU's, fuel tanks and airbag gas generators. Also the best points and angles of attack

Here is a pdf file from VW where they already have compiled that data for most of their vehicles.
http://www.volkswagen.de/etc/medialib/vwcms/virtualmaster/de/Models/sonderfahrzeuge/rettungsfahrzeuge/web-special.Par.0033.File.pdf/0909_rettungsdatenblaetter.pdf


The plan is to compile that data to a portable database that the fire departments can access at the point of the accident, possibly even linked to the reg number so that the car reg shows the make-up of the car.

The other idea is to standardise the data into a one-sheet rescue card that can be carried behind the sunvisor in the car. So all the fire department need to do at the scene is grab that card and they can start on cutting at the correct points immediatedly.

So ...dear RSA ...how about that?
Might make a nice change from name calling and generalising and would REALLY help to save lives.

peasant

example of a rescue card for the VW Phaeton



Looking at this it immediatedly becomes clear how useful this is
Which fireman would know for example that there are two batteries hidden in the boot? Or that you don't want to cut the C-pillar unless you want the gas chamber for the curtain airbag to explode in your face?

(What's missing from this card though are the specific points and angles of attack, VW don't seem to have included these in their data yet)

Matt Simis

Presumably we could just wait for the Germans to do all the work then just copy (and translate) the database for local use. Do Irish Firemen currently have any sort of laptop / PC / PULSE thing with then to view data?

peasant

These are the things you DON'T want to happen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1Qj75pbl8o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-x6KtZvdhAQ

UpstateEMS

Holmatro has had a fairly extensive book out for a couple of years now that details much of this information. I remember flicking my fingers through it while taking an advanced vehicle extrication course back in 2003.

I'm not so sure the removable card thing is the best idea, too many of the public would take it and throw it away, put it in the glove box, etc. I like the builders who put all the airbag information on a plate next to the VIN or etched/stickered onto the windshield.

mickdw

UpstateEMS wrote: »

I'm not so sure the removable card thing is the best idea, too many of the public would take it and throw it away, put it in the glove box, etc. I like the builders who put all the airbag information on a plate next to the VIN or etched/stickered onto the windshield.

I think the main idea is to make this info available to the fire service direct via laptop or simple up to date hard file carried with them. Just supplying this info with the car would not be effective imo.

peasant

UpstateEMS wrote: »

I'm not so sure the removable card thing is the best idea, too many of the public would take it and throw it away,

not if this was a targeted RSA campaign.
you know ...a TV spot about rescue cards instead of "he drives, she dies"

Prenderb

mickdw wrote: »

I think the main idea is to make this info available to the fire service direct via laptop or simple up to date hard file carried with them. Just supplying this info with the car would not be effective imo.

Some fire services are doing this.

peasant

The other area where this would be really useful would be to distinguish the different trim levels.

Does your particular car have a curtain airbag ...or did you get the "paddy special" and the fire department can save time and cut straight through the c-pillar and the roof to whip you out?

An integration of this data with the pulse system (or something like it) would be really helpful. Type in the reg of the car and you know immediatedly where and where not to direct your rescue efforts.

The actual card in the car would just be the icing on the cake.

galwaytt

....much as I see your point, I can't see it pragmatically working. Dealers here have trouble identifying exact models, (imports etc), so how we can expect this info to be ascertained on the side of the road, accurately, escapes me.

No, what's needed is something simpler: a kind of 'global' car system shutdown. Usually starting with the battery. Where battery access is unavailable, or it's damaged, second failsafe way to do it is an idea, an Emergency Stop button, if you will.

Actually, come to think of it, that should be part of the car system anyway - in the event of an accident, add deployment time etc, then shut down and fuse the battery link.

Oh, and roadside computer access, up to date ? .....never happen........