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Switching from Arts to Law

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  • 15-11-2009 3:42pm
    #1
    Cubscout
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23 ✭


    I know no one will know the answer to this question, I am just looking for opinions. I got 480 points in the leaving cert this year and am doing arts and I think I want to do Law. If I drop out before some time in January and re-apply to CAO I'd be fine but just Law was incredibly low this year and the Likely-hood of it remaining below 480 is quite slim I would say. I really don't want to repeat semester 1 in arts again if I don't get my first choice next year.....what to do....?


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    #2
    Maccattack
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,322 ✭✭✭Maccattack


    I just watched Night at the Museum 2 with my daughter.

    The secret to happiness - according to 'Larry Daley' - is to follow your dreams.


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    #3
    RandolphEsq
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,296 ✭✭✭RandolphEsq


    Law is not going to go lower, if anything it will rise what with more people accepting places in the ''7'' universities (there's really only 2). You wouldn't get law in UCD (or Virginity) with 480 so you would have to head out of Dublin to do law


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    #4
    Cubscout
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23 ✭Cubscout


    it was 470 this year in UCD


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    #5
    RandolphEsq
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,296 ✭✭✭RandolphEsq


    Cubscout wrote: »
    it was 470 this year in UCD

    What? Seriously? Wow, I didn't know that! OP that is a massive drop from the year before and the year before that. So it is obviously unpredictable and could jump 20 points or not jump at all.
    In conclusion, I don't know what you should do. Arts is far better than law anyway and is an excellent background to have if you want to do law. Do an LLM after Arts if you want to do law and you'll be right up ther with the law degree graduates. Arts + LLM = 4 years. Law degree = 4 years


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    #6
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Your best bet imho is to do really well this year and maybe look into a transfer then when you've proven that you have the aptitude/dedication to your studies.

    Not sure how easy it would be. If you're liking arts and are just wanting to switch from a perceived "Law = $$$" notion, then I would say stick with arts and do a postgrad maybe in law.

    I have to say though, if you're finding Arts isn't your thing and you're falling behind you might want to think twice about doing Law. It's supposed to be pretty boring.


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    #7
    Cubscout
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23 ✭Cubscout


    Arts is fine, but Law seems like it would be more my thing. I don't have any preconceptions that Law is directly related to money, sure my brother did it and he's unemployed.


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    #8
    lemon_sherbert
    Registered Users Posts: 716 ✭✭✭lemon_sherbert


    I've heard mutterings in the Law School that from next year that all the Law with subjects are going to be amalgamated into one Law entry on the CAO, which will likely have the consequence of driving up points.

    Bear in mind there is no need to study law if you want to practice law, there are other routes into the career.


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    #9
    Cubscout
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23 ✭Cubscout


    I have no idea what to do :S


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    #10
    lemon_sherbert
    Registered Users Posts: 716 ✭✭✭lemon_sherbert


    Cubscout wrote: »
    I have no idea what to do :S

    Maybe you should go talk to your Course Co-ordinator, or someone in the Programme Office, there are lots of people in UCD willing to help you out. You could go talk to someone in the Law Progamme Office as well, they might be able to give you another perspective.

    Depending on numbers and the course requirements you may even be able to transfer into Law, so definitely investigate. No point doing something you don't enjoy for another 2 and a half years, but thats just my 2c.


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    #11
    Cubscout
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23 ✭Cubscout


    A transfer now would be messy I think, I'd have to catch up with everything in a month before exams.


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    #12
    El Siglo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,803 ✭✭✭El Siglo


    OP, my advice would be to stick out the BA, it'll give you tons of options and if you still feel you want to do law then this course is always there for you. I know people say you should 'follow your dreams' and all that, but having an arts degree isn't all that bad. Personally I think law is probably the most boring thing anyone can do (I used to give grinds in Jurisprudence)!


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    #13
    Rebelheart
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,077 ✭✭✭Rebelheart


    Cubscout wrote: »
    I know no one will know the answer to this question, I am just looking for opinions. I got 480 points in the leaving cert this year and am doing arts and I think I want to do Law. If I drop out before some time in January and re-apply to CAO I'd be fine but just Law was incredibly low this year and the Likely-hood of it remaining below 480 is quite slim I would say. I really don't want to repeat semester 1 in arts again if I don't get my first choice next year.....what to do....?

    Law will probably go lower. Or rather, there is a huge number of unemployed solicitors out here. There are far too many lawyers in this state at present. Anybody in the know is aware of how bad the job market is and will encourage people they know to stay away from it.

    Yes, do the law degree - it's genuinely very interesting - and don't bother with the FE1s, but don't kid yourself that there will be a job as a solicitor at the end of it. There's a huge surplus to get rid of at the moment and it will take a lot of years to do so.


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    #14
    meathawk
    Registered Users Posts: 334 ✭✭meathawk


    I amn't sure If I want to take the risk of possibly having to repeat arts next year and do all the same stuff I am not really interested in.


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    #15
    El Siglo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,803 ✭✭✭El Siglo


    Rebelheart wrote: »
    Law will probably go lower. Or rather, there is a huge number of unemployed solicitors out here. There are far too many lawyers in this state at present. Anybody in the know is aware of how bad the job market is and will encourage people they know to stay away from it.

    Yes, do the law degree - it's genuinely very interesting - and don't bother with the FE1s, but don't kid yourself that there will be a job as a solicitor at the end of it. There's a huge surplus to get rid of at the moment and it will take a lot of years to do so.

    +1, Rebelheart is absolutely spot on! The chances are Law, like Civil Engineering, Architecture, etc... will drop like stones next year. And really you any ideas of doing an apprenticeship after the FE-1s, forget it. It'll take a good few years before any of this picks up again.


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    #16
    themont85
    Registered Users Posts: 2,608 ✭✭✭themont85


    El Siglo wrote: »
    +1, Rebelheart is absolutely spot on! The chances are Law, like Civil Engineering, Architecture, etc... will drop like stones next year. And really you any ideas of doing an apprenticeship after the FE-1s, forget it. It'll take a good few years before any of this picks up again.

    There's still apprentiships, in fact i'd say a few law firms are keeping the same amount because they are relatively cheap labour to qualified solicitors. Yes chances in the profession when qualified are clearly difficult (as are a lit of areas) but that's no reason not to try if that's what you really want.

    Jesus negative Neves in here.


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    #17
    errlloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 12,612 ✭✭✭✭errlloyd


    Tbh mate I'm in first law, transfer this year, buy the 4 books read them you'll pass Christmas, due to the magic of semesterisation you'll be starting fresh in January in everything except Tort, and lets face it, tort is dead easy.


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    #18
    Cubscout
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23 ✭Cubscout


    I have three of the four books in-front of me here actually, how are you finding law actually? Is it what you thought it'd be?


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    #19
    errlloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 12,612 ✭✭✭✭errlloyd


    Oh sorry, I should have clarified, I haven't got the actual books. Just the nutshells...


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    #20
    Michaelrsh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 640 ✭✭✭Michaelrsh


    Cubscout wrote: »
    I know no one will know the answer to this question, I am just looking for opinions. I got 480 points in the leaving cert this year and am doing arts and I think I want to do Law. If I drop out before some time in January and re-apply to CAO I'd be fine but just Law was incredibly low this year and the Likely-hood of it remaining below 480 is quite slim I would say. I really don't want to repeat semester 1 in arts again if I don't get my first choice next year.....what to do....?

    Who want Arts or Law ... eww ... Science is the way forward people. Wanna job go to Science. (or science related).


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    #21
    K4t
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,362 ✭✭✭K4t


    Michaelrsh wrote: »
    Who want Arts or Law ... eww ... Science is the way forward people. Wanna drop out go to Science. (or science related).
    fyp

    Study what you have an interest in and what you are good at. It will make your college experience relatively stress free and a whole lot more enjoyable.


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    #22
    Fad
    Registered Users Posts: 7,231 ✭✭✭Fad


    Michaelrsh wrote: »
    Who want Arts or Law ... eww ... Science is the way forward people. Wanna job go to Science. (or science related).

    Dont go to science.......not a plan.


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    #23
    Michaelrsh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 640 ✭✭✭Michaelrsh


    K4t wrote: »
    fyp

    Study what you have an interest in and what you are good at. It will make your college experience relatively stress free and a whole lot more enjoyable.

    And after, enjoy the dole queues.


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    #24
    Michaelrsh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 640 ✭✭✭Michaelrsh


    Fad wrote: »
    Dont go to science.......not a plan.

    You have been known for your traitorous attitudes on boards towards science Fad.


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    #25
    Sangre
    Registered Users Posts: 12,169 ✭✭✭✭Sangre


    I've heard mutterings in the Law School that from next year that all the Law with subjects are going to be amalgamated into one Law entry on the CAO, which will likely have the consequence of driving up points.

    I doubt it - it could be seen as a restriction on entry to the profession and anti-competitive. Also, I'm not sure what say the law society actually has on uni courses, none I'd imagine.

    From a jobs point of law is struggling like all the services and it is extremely hard to secure any sort of job. Its also a long, poor road. Expect to be studying for about 7 years to become a solicitors, although the other professions in law vary.

    Also, not doing a law degree is in no way a hindrance to practising law. At worst it will add an extra year to your studies.


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    #26
    D.R cowboy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 698 ✭✭✭D.R cowboy


    lemon_sherbert wrote: »
    I've heard mutterings in the Law School that from next year that all the Law with subjects are going to be amalgamated into one Law entry on the CAO, which will likely have the consequence of driving up points.

    Bear in mind there is no need to study law if you want to practice law, there are other routes into the career.


    pls explain what other ways is there into it


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    #27
    meathawk
    Registered Users Posts: 334 ✭✭meathawk


    I think he means that your core module will be law, but extra subjects like philosophy and french law and business modules can be added on sort of like general engineering where the certain modules you do decide what sort of engineer you will be.


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    #28
    Jev/N
    Registered Users Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭Jev/N


    D.R cowboy wrote: »
    pls explain what other ways is there into it

    Doing another degree


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    #29
    imarugbyball
    Closed Accounts Posts: 74 ✭✭imarugbyball


    RandolphEsq wrote: »
    Arts is far better than law anyway and is an excellent background to have if you want to do law.

    This isn't the stand up comedy forum dude.....

    Arts is a complete piece of piss compared to law though its definatly the easiest course in NUI colleges, getting a 2.1 should be little to no effort if you can get 480 points. From what ive heard law is really hard with a high drop out rate and compeditive grade curve. Remember that the standard is in essence set by your fellow students and with 480 points you will be one of the smartest in arts and slowest in law.

    Doing law will make your life easier in the long run though . Do serious research into an LLM transfer and what allows you to get into it and what the rates for acceptance are afterwards. Also ask future employers of their opinions on this method of entry, arts is a universally disrespected course and you may run into troubles there. However don't take my word for it at all and do your own research, certainly your college life would be much less stressful if you did persue the arts route.


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    #30
    K4t
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,362 ✭✭✭K4t


    imarugbyball wrote: »
    This isn't the stand up comedy forum dude.....

    Arts is a complete piece of piss compared to law though its definatly the easiest course in NUI colleges, getting a 2.1 should be little to no effort if you can get 480 points. From what ive heard law is really hard with a high drop out rate and compeditive grade curve. Remember that the standard is in essence set by your fellow students and with 480 points you will be one of the smartest in arts and slowest in law.

    Doing law will make your life easier in the long run though . Do serious research into an LLM transfer and what allows you to get into it and what the rates for acceptance are afterwards. Also ask future employers of their opinions on this method of entry, arts is a universally disrespected course and you may run into troubles there. However don't take my word for it at all and do your own research, certainly your college life would be much less stressful if you did persue the arts route.
    You don't study law but yet feel you can state that 'arts is a complete piece of piss compared' to it? Ooook. I think you'll find that there is a hell of a difference between someone who gets a first in arts and someone who just gets the basic degree. It's all about the grade. You get out of arts what you put into it. I'm studying both law and some arts subjects (English and economics). On average, the top English students are on a higher level intellectually than the best law students I've met. Just my experience but hey, you're the expert.....:rolleyes:

    And please stop comparing LC points to performance in college. You're making yourself look like an idiot.


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    #31
    lemon_sherbert
    Registered Users Posts: 716 ✭✭✭lemon_sherbert


    D.R cowboy wrote: »
    pls explain what other ways is there into it

    If you want to be a solicitor, you don't need to study law to train, you just need any honours degree, there are plenty of preparatory courses to take the entrance exams (FE1s) to the professional training body. I'll direct you to http://www.lawsociety.ie. If you want to be a barrister, once you have a degree you can do a two year BL course at the Kings Inn and complete a year of devilling (training with a barrister) to be admitted to the bar. Again, check out http://www.kingsinn.ie


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