To buy, or not to buy?

Diarmuid

Dr_Phil wrote: »

Panic and brainwashing.

:rolleyes: I'm outta here

Agent J

*shakes head*

Look the Government expenditure for this year.
Then look at the tax take for the year.
Makes the 4Billion they are trying to save look laughable.

Now consider thats without paying for Nama.

You have also left out the massive jump in direct taxtion over the last year.

Nate--IRL--

Cognitive dissonance

Nate

Dr_Phil

Nate--IRL-- wrote: »

Cognitive dissonance

Nate

Heehee.. I'm not any economist, better think some than nothing :P


Ok, all together - lets go the new way of disaster... Has anyone got a piece of rope and a nice tree in the back garden?

Ulysses Gaze

Dr_Phil wrote: »

Yes, we have paid the booking deposit. Still have to sign contracts though.

Now, eurozone is out of recession. 2010 is going to be tough in Ireland, unemplyment will go slightly up, however at the moment live register eases. 2011 is predicted to be a bit better and once UK and States will recover Ireland will certainly follow them. Neither boom nor recession are static and endless. It will not be like that forever, same it was stupid to expect that the boom/bubble will last forever.

Anyway, I see media play significant role in brainwashing - my say is to cheer up, nothing lasts forever, in another 3 years we'll be all laughing.

As a side note - for the past 2 months I keep seeing: 200 jobs Dublin, 6400 jobs Tallagh, and so on, so on... It's totally opposite to what I used to see 2 years ago (200 gone, 650 gone, disaster, hell, etc.) So slowly but surely - it will recover.

As for property prices, for the government to make some money on NAMA, they will have to stimulate the property market, and they will. All this recession is just a way of making a HUGE money by just a few. A bit of conspiracy theory here, but I don't care :P


EDIT:

Unemplyment figures

Boom times - 4,7%
Now - 11%
Foreigners registered (as blamed for draining a huge amounts from Social Welfare and "first to let go") - 3%
That gives an estimate 3,3% jump from the "boom times" in unemployment for the Irish.

Panic and brainwashing.

The standardised unemployment rate in October was 12.5%.

There is currently a 16 week wait to claim jobseekers benefits where I live (Dublin North). I know because I'm one of the ones waiting. There are waits of up to 20 weeks in some parts of the country. So how many more are waiting to be officially 'signed on'?

There are upwards of 50,000 more on FAS courses now. More on other back-to-work schemes.

We are bleeding jobs throughout the country:

250 in Sligo last week over 4 years
80 in Tralee last week
80-100 in Youghal last week

How many more unreported?

Retailers & Publicans are prepared for the worst Christmas in decades.

http://www.finfacts.ie/irishfinancenews/article_1018236.shtml


Panic and Brainwashing? You're having a laugh!

Dr_Phil

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

I know because I'm one of the ones waiting.

Sorry to hear that. I hope you find something soon.

As for the rest - don't take me too seriously regarding economy - as I said I'm not economist and I have a little clue about finances. It's just my perspective+assuming+observation+a little hope and obviously it's gonna be different than some of the other people.

douglashyde

Dr Phil,

If I was in your position, I would be doing almost exactly the same thing, the only exception being trying to haggle on the price.

Keep in mind when reading people's replies here, you are going to be alot more informed than the rest of them, for the simple reason that you are currently buying a house and have presumable done your homework.

thats all I have to say..............

jmayo

Dr_Phil wrote: »

One of them priced 360k (we offered 350k - approved loan, to the owner of the property, not the EA) is gone for over 360k last summer. Another few we were bidding on are gone (gone for good, people moved in already) and I know we offered a good price - but there were people willing to pay more. Two of the houses were sold well above the asking price (315k asking, sold for 329k) on the same street that "our" house is. It was worth approximately 500k+ 2 years ago, now priced circa 350k. I have funny feeling that if we decided to leave it, it would be gone long time ago. I don't wanna risk loosing it. A while ago I got a house, but I wasn't ready so I said to the EA "Listen, we are not ready, I know its silly but I think we should wait". The house was for 335k, we booked for 330k. Next day it got "Sale agreed", then "Sold"... Recently a family moved in.

But if the prices will start going up - I will most likely never buy a house in such a nice, convenient place for that price.

Eh excuse me how do you know what was paid for these houses.
You appear to be one of the few people, bar maybe EAs who reckon houses are selling for amounts above asking prices or maybe there are still enough eejits going for the same houses as you :rolleyes:

BTW it doesn't matter what the sh** a house was worth two years ago. :rolleyes:
Check what it was worth 10/15 years ago and you are looking at what it could reach.

Richiecats wrote: »

Let's hope your wife can pay the bills as your jobs not safe by a long way

If you work for one of the big two banks I wouldn't be so confident of a job with them in 5/8 years.
The big two banks are FU**ED, they need more recapitalisation funds even with NAMA and will in time be as good as nationalised. The government's grand plan is probably to offload them to some overseas bank who will promptly gut them and clean out lots of staff.

Dr_Phil wrote: »

I did offer lower price, but there was another couple willing to pay more. So per my previous experience I decided to go ahead rather than loosing another suitable house. Some may think I was bidding against myself, so I thought earlier (It's a buyers market, don't be fool) but the minute I said "Ok, we won't pay any more) someone else jumped in and the house was gone.

Convenient that someone else jumped in, just at that time.
Or maybe the houses you are after are so special that every buyer out there wants them at whatever price. :rolleyes:
Sorry I am so cynical but the houses you are bidding on seem to be buking the trend all over the country.

Dr_Phil wrote: »

How do I know it's the bottom? And who I am supposed to listen to know that this is the "real" bottom? It's almost impossible to buy at the very bottom unless you are extremely lucky. If all the average Murphy's knew all them bottoms and peaks they would be loaded

Well IMHO it ain't the bottom because

1. we haven't seen a quarter of the cuts and tax rises the government are going to have to introduce over the next few years.
2. there are going to be loads more job losses in retail sector early next year as the cuts and tax rises begin
3. interest rates are very low and are going to increase making loan repayments higher pushing more people over the edge
4. the banks really haven't gone after people YET
5. there is huge oversupply in the market and sooner or later these properties will have to be will be released - although NAMA will try and prolong the envitable
6. the government sooner or later will have to cut the rent supplements (common sense since it is huge chunk of money we don't have) meaning a whole slew of landlords are in trouble
7. lots of buy to let investors are going to start getting in deeper trouble as their interest only mortgage time limit expires
8. lots of emigrants will leave, pushing rents lower and thus investors will have to offload the properties they can no longer afford

So can you see any reason that a combination of the above will not happen thus not causing prices to drop even more ?

gurramok

douglashyde wrote: »

Dr Phil,

If I was in your position, I would be doing almost exactly the same thing, the only exception being trying to haggle on the price.

Keep in mind when reading people's replies here, you are going to be alot more informed than the rest of them, for the simple reason that you are currently buying a house and have presumable done your homework.

thats all I have to say..............

Why is he more informed?

If he had done his homework, he would not be asking on the internet for advice.

faceman

Ultimately OP its down to your own personal circumstances. IDeally the best time to buy is before the market bottoms out because as soon as the bottom is called/predicted then the scurry to buy property kicks off again.

It probably worth holding out longer if you if you arent 100% on the house. You certainly shouldnt be getting in any bidding wars. When viewing houses its best to remove any emotional connection you may form.

iguana

gurramok wrote: »

Why is he more informed?

If he had done his homework, he would not be asking on the internet for advice.

When I was buying a house I was a LOT less informed than I am now. I knew plenty about the area, the proposed future development, past prices, transport, the local council. But I knew squat about the economy. Thankfully I had this forum and the property pin to educate me.

It's pretty natural for most people throughout history to focus on their purchase rather than the wider economy. You decide on an area, learn about it, choose a house that meets you needs, in your price range and buy it. Unfortunately we are in a period of major economic turmoil and what was enough in the past is not good enough now. We were cresting a major economic boom based on credit, credit and more credit and the consequences are going to be so far beyond nasty.

The OP keeps on saying he knows very little about economics and tbh, that's clear from his posts. I honestly suggest that he takes the time to really, really educate himself on what is happening and about to happen before signing his contracts. If he has an honest picture and decides to go ahead anyway at least he is going in with his eyes open.

Dr_Phil

jmayo wrote: »

Eh excuse me how do you know what was paid for these houses.

Logic.

One of the houses was priced 360k - we offered 350k and they didn't take it. Not a long after the house was sold - while I kept asking EA and the owner (got owner's number from the neighbours). What does it say to you? Do you think they didn't like 350k but less than that? Or rather got what they wanted? I have a few examples like the one above.

jmayo wrote: »

BTW it doesn't matter what the sh** a house was worth two years ago. :rolleyes:
Check what it was worth 10/15 years ago and you are looking at what it could reach.

I keep saying that, the only reason I mentioned that were a few people asking what was the price to see how much did it go down.

jmayo wrote: »

If you work for one of the big two banks I wouldn't be so confident of a job with them in 5/8 years.
The big two banks are FU**ED

Even if I was brilliant economist who spent the entire life on the markets I woudn't be so brave to predict un/employment 5/8 years forward.

As for the banks - yeah, everything is f**ked. We all gonna die.

jmayo wrote: »

The government's grand plan is probably....

Well, if you start going on about great/secret plans of the goverment I would suggest to start investing huge money, maybe shares, some contracts rather than waste time whinging on forums - having such powerful knowledge is a certain key to success and wealth.

Excuse my sarcasm, but if I thought like that, there would be no point to get out of bed, best shot in the head straight away.



Alright guys, thanks for your say, the thread can be locked.

napapa

Dr. Phil, I've experienced the exact same scenario as yourself. Lost out on four houses, as I was bidding below asking price. In one case I got locked into bidding war that got completely out of control, the couple who I was bidding against ended up paying over 60K more than asking price. This was in July 2009. Fortunately, I found the right house in the right area for what I believe is a fair price for a home. Closed on it last week, happy out.

Best of luck with your venture, whether you go for it or not, its not easy making big decisions at the moment nor will it be any easier in 3-4 years, when we get out of this current mess.

Dr_Phil

napapa wrote: »

Dr. Phil, I've experienced the exact same scenario as yourself. Lost out on four houses, as I was bidding below asking price. In one case I got locked into bidding war that got completely out of control, the couple who I was bidding against ended up paying over 60K more than asking price. This was in July 2009. Fortunately, I found the right house in the right area for what I believe is a fair price for a home. Closed on it last week, happy out.

Best of luck with your venture, whether you go for it or not, its not easy making big decisions at the moment nor will it be any easier in 3-4 years, when we get out of this current mess.

I'm sure there are much more people like us: want/need a house - buy a house, but (as I figured out) there's no point to say a word, unless you wanna be called a fool for "not waiting another 18 months, when they will be giving houses for free + extra car and papal bless for just a fiver".. It's like a new fashion these days - just 180 degrees opposite to "Hurray, we are grand, we throw millions around, we rule the feckin' world, the economy is just fine" 3 years ago. Wise will know that the truth always lies somewhere between mad optymistic enthusiasm and insane whinging of doomers.

I wonder what's the point in getting even a free house when we are all fooked, going down anyway?

jmayo

Dr_Phil wrote: »

Logic.
Even if I was brilliant economist who spent the entire life on the markets I woudn't be so brave to predict un/employment 5/8 years forward.

As for the banks - yeah, everything is f**ked. We all gonna die.

Well, if you start going on about great/secret plans of the goverment I would suggest to start investing huge money, maybe shares, some contracts rather than waste time whinging on forums - having such powerful knowledge is a certain key to success and wealth.

Excuse my sarcasm, but if I thought like that, there would be no point to get out of bed, best shot in the head straight away...

Well for soemone that works in a bank you can make flippant remakrs about how the banks are or aren't fooked, but I guess that comes from the fact that so far the banks have been bailed out by the taxpaying mugs. :mad:

Ah I see you subscribe to bertie's theory of dealing with people who don't subscribe to your rosier outlook of the irish eocnomy :rolleyes:

Dr_Phil wrote: »

I'm sure there are much more people like us: want/need a house - buy a house, but (as I figured out) there's no point to say a word, unless you wanna be called a fool for "not waiting another 18 months, when they will be giving houses for free + extra car and papal bless for just a fiver".. It's like a new fashion these days - just 180 degrees opposite to "Hurray, we are grand, we throw millions around, we rule the feckin' world, the economy is just fine" 3 years ago. Wise will know that the truth always lies somewhere between mad optymistic enthusiasm and insane whinging of doomers.

I wonder what's the point in getting even a free house when we are all fooked, going down anyway?

Ah yes the insane whinging of doomers, bertie is that you ?
BTW it is not a new fashion with me, I was whinging and being pessimistic 8 years ago when I saw the real celtic tiger die.
Nothing has given me confidence in the mean time as a hell of a lot of the Irish public went bananas on cheap credit and now they are doing the real whinging as they are also expecting the rest of us to carry the can for them.

You complain posters are running people down for talking about buying.
Maybe some posters are trying to warn buyers that now is not a good time to buy, maybe they are trying to prevent more people signing their lives away on a long term mortgage on overpriced bricks and mortar ?

Why bother asking on here in the first place if you don't want advice that may question your outlook and opinions ?

PS if you think that the banks won't be nationalised or sold somehwre down the line to a foreign operator then it is you that must have the inside track

bangersandmash

Dr_Phil wrote: »

It's like a new fashion these days - just 180 degrees opposite to "Hurray, we are grand, we throw millions around, we rule the feckin' world, the economy is just fine" 3 years ago. Wise will know that the truth always lies somewhere between mad optymistic enthusiasm and insane whinging of doomers.

Funny, the below thread is almost 3 years old.

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055033806

I remember Morgan Kelly was incessantly referred to as a whinger and doom-monger at the time too.

jmayo

bangersandmash wrote: »

Funny, the below thread is almost 3 years old.

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055033806

I remember Morgan Kelly was incessantly referred to as a whinger and doom-monger at the time too.

Yep post #47 was one of my first posts on boards.

galah

my 2 cents worth of input into this - it really depends on what you want.

House prices are still way too high for any of the crappy shoe boxes in any newish estate near any bigger town. Why people would pay to live somewhere where every house looks the same is beyond me. However, if you find a nice house in a good location and you can see yourself living there for a while, and, importantly, you think you can afford the mortgage without overstretching AND even if one of ye lost their jobs or goes on maternity or whatever, why not go for it? Prices may fall further in some areas, but they may not for other areas.

we're buying at the moment. best time. (I've been looking at the boom here the past couple of years, spent the best part laughing at people buying overpriced pieces of crap in remote locations with zero infrastructure save the road to the next bigger town, and have not much sympathy for people who insisted that prices can only go up (I do have sympathy for people who lost their job and now can't afford their mortgage - cause that could hit anyone, and that's a totally different ballgame) who now complain about negative equity (which still is a concept worth mentioning only if you NEED to sell right now. If not, why worry about it?).

Ulysses Gaze

who now complain about negative equity (which still is a concept worth mentioning only if you NEED to sell right now. If not, why worry about it?).

I agree that NE should only really bother a person if they are looking at selling. There are two ways of looking at it though:

1) Those who bought shoeboxes and legoland houses miles away from infrastructure never intended to stay there for longer than 3/4 years. It was the foot on the much vaunted 'ladder' and the first step to greater things for them. They are trapped now for at least the next 5 years. More if they're in a half-built estate.

2) Even those who don't want to move and have bought into new estates nearer the city are moaning as well. And I'll tell you why based on talking to three of my friends in similar situations. They have the feeling they've been had - the "Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?" scenario.

They've overpaid for houses that are now selling for 30/40% less on the same roads/estates. So they are seeing the resale value of their properties drop but their hefty mortgage payments are staying the same; essentially they feel they are overpaying for a depreciating asset while their neighbours have 'won the lottery' (words of one of my mates wives). In these estates, it isn't a recipe for great community spirit!

It's difficult to argue with them that they need to look at the bigger picture, that they didn't plan to move for at least 8/10 years anyway so just keep the head down as this goes beyond the 'need' to sell the house and more with the realisation that they feel they were sold a pup.

jmayo

galah wrote: »

... Prices may fall further in some areas, but they may not for other areas.

I would say ALL property from the boggy mountainy fields of Mayo to the Ballsbridge Jurys site to the Dundrum 3 bed semi in an old estate near the Luas line were ALL overpriced.
And I will put my ass on the line and state they are ALL STILL overpriced if we go by the asking prices and the supposed selling prices.
Maybe the genuine selling prices are more realistic, but we don't really know.

The country's economy is in the gutter, property is still too high a multiple of average earnings which are decreasing, once interest rates increase it makes property even less value and our property is still too high a value when you compare our backwater to other countries with proper economies.

Land sales they have gone way down, since now they are relying on farmers for sales and farming as anyone involved with it knows, is in deep cow manure.
House sales have collapsed, there is a huge negative sentiment to buying property, because people finally realise that prices are high.
As someone claimed a rising tide lifted all boats when we had the boom, well I believe more correctly the tide going out will lower all boats.
It is very hard to any property being immune from further falls, it is only a question of degree.

House prices are still being quoted at values that were part of the bubble.
Usually after a big bubble prices go past the value preceeding the bubble with an overshoot downwards.
BTW we had one of the largest bubbles so expect us to have one of the worst landings.

Of course there may be some still sticking to the argument that we are different. :rolleyes:
Soft landing anyone :rolleyes:

galah wrote: »

... who now complain about negative equity (which still is a concept worth mentioning only if you NEED to sell right now. If not, why worry about it?).

As other poster mentioned the fact that you pay three or more times what something is really worth will gnaw away at lots of people.
How would you like to be living in that apartment block in Newbride having paid 300,000 for your gaff and some guy moves in next door having paid 110,000 ?
It would bug the sh** out of me and probably most other posters around here is they are really honest about it.

galah

but the fact is that 3 years ago, those houses were 'really' worth their overpriced price. Not anymore, but they were then. If you didn't think that, you wouldn't have bought. (why people thought that prices of close to 400 k for an identikit home somewhere on the outskirts of Galway were 'good value' is beyond me, and I'll never understand it, but that's not my problem.)

Of course people will be annoyed that the same house is now much cheaper, but really, that's tough. They could've all waited, and not bought into the hype, and we'd all be better off. These exact people were probably bragging to renters about their property and rung one on the ladder back then. Going on how rent is dead money and all.

Hindsight is super, though...

jmayo

galah wrote: »

but the fact is that 3 years ago, those houses were 'really' worth their overpriced price. Not anymore, but they were then. If you didn't think that, you wouldn't have bought. (why people thought that prices of close to 400 k for an identikit home somewhere on the outskirts of Galway were 'good value' is beyond me, and I'll never understand it, but that's not my problem.)

Of course people will be annoyed that the same house is now much cheaper, but really, that's tough. They could've all waited, and not bought into the hype, and we'd all be better off. These exact people were probably bragging to renters about their property and rung one on the ladder back then. Going on how rent is dead money and all.

Hindsight is super, though...

Here hang on did I ever say they were worth the inflated amount people paid for them ?
Yes it is tough for them if the value of their property dropped but the vlaue of all property has dropped.

Oh btw stop saying it was hindsight, that is feeding into the myth and the sh*te eminating from some government circles that no one foresaw this. :mad:

Check out what the likes of Morgan Kelly was syaing in 2006 and early 2007.
Go back to the Housing Bubble thread and see the first posts late 2006 early 2007.
BTW my first one was post #47

meglome

Rents are at a ten year low and there's no sign of them going up. While interests rates will go up which will cause prices to fall (notwithstanding the economic poo we're in). There will be a time in this country to buy a house but I think it's a few years off yet.

Agent J

galah wrote: »

but the fact is that 3 years ago, those houses were 'really' worth their overpriced price. Not anymore, but they were then. If you didn't think that, you wouldn't have bought.

Tell that to Marc Coleman

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/property-market-in-need-of-tough-love-1258683.html

When I bought my own house in 2006 I knew it was slightly overvalued. Having just got engaged, my choice was to buy a property in an area where I wanted to live and in commutable distance for myself and fiancée, or to sit out the first years of married life in a 40sq m apartment. Speaking for myself, I have no regrets about my decision. Whatever overvaluation in the price I paid has already gone.

They werent worth that price. People just had the perception they were and therin lies the key to this whole mess.

Dr_Phil

Everything is worth as much, as someone's willing to pay for it.I wonder where do you get these "It's not worth xx" statements from?

jmayo wrote: »

You complain posters are running people down for talking about buying.
Maybe some posters are trying to warn buyers that now is not a good time to buy, maybe they are trying to prevent more people signing their lives away on a long term mortgage on overpriced bricks and mortar ?

Why bother asking on here in the first place if you don't want advice that may question your outlook and opinions ?

I don't complain.. It's just I did not expect that much blind frustration, pesimism and whining. But there are also people that are capable of putting their thoughts in a more "easygoing" way, considering a few options and perspectives rather than HOUSE=HELL. "Wait 18 months otherwise you're fooked"

On the other hand, I would ask some of the whingers "Who the hell are you, self-proclaimed Oracle to claim you 100% know the future?" Good folks are gonna warn the others, but can they see all the aspects of buing a house? Or just bloody % and numbers "Yeah, rot in the sh1tty flat for next 5 years but you might gain 10k"? IF they are wrong and the prices will bounce back up soon - are they gonna be responsible for wrong advices they gave? Surely not... And again - if someone is so certain of the future and their own prophecy - instead of whinging why not to start making big money? I wonder how many successfull businessmen or economists had a say in this thread?

jmayo wrote: »

How would you like to be living in that apartment block in Newbride having paid 300,000 for your gaff and some guy moves in next door having paid 110,000 ?
It would bug the sh** out of me and probably most other posters around here is they are really honest about it.

I wouldn't give a smelly fcuk. I am an adult. I sign mortgage papers, I agree to pay the monthly repayment, I know I can afford it - what's the problem? Are you getting sick every time you see that someone's got something cheaper or better than you? Mind your own business, life is easier that way.

Nate--IRL--

Dr Phil it is your life and your decision, do as you please.

However when you post a thread with the title "To buy, or not to buy?" and then rubbish any opinion that goes against the rationalisation of a decision you made before starting the thread, I wonder why you bothered.

Was it that you were seeking justification for your decision to buy?

Nate

gurramok

Dr_Phil wrote:

Should I think again and chase the property market like I was doing for the past 6 months? Or should I sign the contracts and start a new, happy life? I simply wanna do it, but I'm afraid that something goes wrong and some stage, I don't know, with jobs, health, whatever... I'm very nervous in general and all these doubts might just be a projection of my mind and things are going to be just as fine, as I dreamed of?

You cannot seem to look into the future yourself either. At least the whingers use statistics and have been proven right on this forum for the last few years, you use pie out of the sky makey up stuff, i'd know whose advice i'd listen to.

Dr_Phil wrote:

Any comment on it is more than welcome.

Yeh, right. Anyone who disagrees with your purchase need not be welcome.

Dr_Phil

gurramok wrote: »

Yeh, right. Anyone who disagrees with your purchase need not be welcome.

Lads at work were crying from laughing when I said I posted a thread about buying a property on boards. Now I know why..

What I expected? I don't know. Maybe some pros and cons that FEW were able to address, maybe a little pat "you'll be alright"? I have an alergy to whingers since I bought XXXXXX shares of BOI for around 20c/share. Christ, I couldn't walk beside a group of mates - so many comments about my doubtful inteligence and 100% of losing money I heard. They all shut up when I made over 1000% profit on them in a few months.. That was sweeeeet!!!! That's why I was asking before: "why not making big money now instead of whining - if you know 100% what happens, go for it.."

See, saying "Any opinion more than welcome" I meant something else than getting me totally fecking depressed. I'm not a moron you tend to treat me like, who doesn't read news, doesn't understand stats, can't think, understand and forsee possible ways and scenarios in future. But there are also other factors - invisible to you - than a few stupid grand I might to loose (not for good I'm sure) you all seem to be bitching about over and over again.

I think I needed a bit of confidence while making biggest decision in my life - just to help me to go through it. A friendly slap, "Sure, it's not great, it's bad, but eventually you'll be on the ball" I didn't need that bloody "boardsy" mantra "We're all gonna die... Everything is foooked!!" - usually people who got nowhere themselves tend to put their frustration on others.

I'm going to unsubscribe from this thread, I've no plans commiting suicide for the moment which seems to be the only fair option after reading these gloomy posts.

Again, this thread can be locked - unless someone else wants to use it to expres how fcuked up everything is.

iguana

Dr_Phil wrote: »

On the other hand, I would ask some of the whingers "Who the hell are you, self-proclaimed Oracle to claim you 100% know the future?" Good folks are gonna warn the others, but can they see all the aspects of buing a house? Or just bloody % and numbers "Yeah, rot in the sh1tty flat for next 5 years but you might gain 10k"?

There is a such thing as cause and effect. I'm not a fortune teller but I can tell you what will happen if you put a pot of water on a high heat. I can tell you what will happen beyond that if you forget about the pot and go shopping for 3 hours. Actions have consequences and usually when you take the time to examine what has already happened you can tell what will happen next. The country has been run a certain way for a very long time, it's built up a very particular momentum. It can only go one way now, the exact details may not be clear, but where the economy is going is obvious to anyone who takes the time to do some real research.

As for your shítty flat. Have you been paying the same rent for the last few years? If so do some homework on the rental market. There is massive oversupply and prices have dropped and are still dropping. You can probably rent a decent 3 bed semi for the price 2 bed flats went for 3 years ago.

You say you wouldn't be bothered by the price of your house dropping 66% below the price you are planning to pay. Well you are either a highly exceptional human being or you are lying. Because the thing is you won't be buying the house when you purchase it. You will be buying the house bit, by bit, every month for the next 35-15 years. It's not a single purchase, it's 420 purchases every month for the rest of your working life. The person living nextdoor or across the street will have a better lifestyle or work less as each and every month they pay a lot less than you or maybe nothing at all.

gurramok

You just want that re-assurance on what you are taking on(330k debt) is a good decision and you are not getting it and thats why you come across as frustrated and dismissive of other views.

Just be constructive and take on board what people say. That doom and gloom you speak of is in the real world, no getting away from it.