Colts vs Patriots.....Rivalry of the decade...Lets get it on

eagle eye

The biggest rivalry of the decade.
The two greatest Quarterbacks of the decade.
The two most winningest regular season teams of the decade with 109 reg. season wins apiece.
Any chance of Home Field Advantage on the line for the Patriots.
The chance to tie second best all time consecutive regular season wins and have a shot at the regular season win record(both held by the Patriots) on the line for the Colts.
Sunday Night game, no other games to distract you.
Its got a Superbowl air about it imo.
What more could you ask for?

Key Matchups

Manning vs Brady
The debate over who is the best will rage on for many years. They don't even face each other on the field as they both play on offense but the two best QBs in the NFL face off tonight. I really don't see an advantage for either team in this department.
No advantage

Wayne vs Bodden
Reggie Wayne is having a great year, Leigh Bodden is having a great year. This will be his toughest matchup to date. I can't call this one either and I'll call it a draw, Wayne will get catches and yards but I don't think he will have a great night, still you have to respect him.
Advantage Colts.

Clark vs Merriweather
A lot of people are calling this as a matchup between McGowan and Clark but I don't see it like that. We don't have a strong and weak safety like most teams, they are interchangeable. I see McGowan being the spy tonight and Merriweather given the job of looking after Clark when he breaks from the line. If it is as I suspect this is a huge matchup and its impossible to call who will win it. You've got the best Safety in the league so far this season against the best Tight End.
No Advantage

Garcon/Collie vs Butler/Springs
Garcon and Collie have been surprisingly decent for the Colts this year but Butler has been exceptional and Springs seems to be back near his very best.
Advantage Patriots

Freeney vs Vollmer
I think Vollmer will have assistance against Freeney tonight from a tight end and most likely Baker. Matt Light will be badly missed tonight, he just seems to know how to handle Freeney. While Vollmer has been great since he stepped in at Left tackle, you have to give the advantage to one of the all time great Defensive End pass rushers.
Advantage Colts

Mathis vs Kaczur
Another key matchup. Kaczur is having a great year but Mathis is so dangerous. Mathis can be inconsistent though and the advantage though only slight goes to Kaczur.
Advantage Patriots

Moss vs Powers
Powers was impressive last week for the Colts but Vontae Davis had been impressive all season and Randy showed him what he does to rookies with a stiff arm on his way to a td.
Advantage Patriots

Lacey vs Welker
An UDFA on Welker(who was an UDFA incidentally) you say. No question here.
Advantage Patriots

The X Factors
For me the x factors could be the key to this game. They are Joseph Addai who was impressive last week and provided a new wrinkle in the Colts offense with his recent td pass.
On the other side is Laurence Maroney and Kevin Faulk. Maroney is getting more time and has been playing well as a result of that. Faulk is the third down back who is always a threat for a quick pass.
Then there are the kickers.
As far as field goals are concerned you can't beat Stephen Gostkowski. Matt Stover has done well for the Colts since he arrived but he has missed pressure kicks over the past couple of seasons.

I'm not calling it, my dislike for the Colts is building as every minute goes by. Of course I respect the Colts as they are and have been a great team all through this decade but come game time the respect goes out the window until the game is over. I just hope its another great game and may the best team win.

tallaghtoutlaws

May the best man win is all i'm saying don't like to call my own teams games

Good post EE.

redout

If it ties in with a thread, you can criticise Mr. Brady on whatever grounds you want, but you will need to construct a slightly more specific, reasoned argument than this in future please.

Neil.

tallaghtoutlaws

redout wrote: »

Slanderous reference deleted - Neil

Dude in fairness keep it constructive or don't post.

redout

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Dude in fairness keep it constructive or don't post.

Fair enough. Going for the Patriots as the Colts have 3 of their D line out injured.

mikemac

The two most winningest (now there's an American term!) teams since 1999

Let the best team win

Having seen the Patriots in Wembly, I'll hesitantly predict them as winners
Though I don't care, neither team will win the Superbowl

Dr.Slurm

The game I look forward to the most every year. I hope this is as exciting as I think it will be. May the team that scores the most points win!

tallaghtoutlaws

The_General wrote: »

Just erasing any reference to this abuse. N.

Good man very constructive first post. Reported.

Neil3030

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Good man very constructive first post. Reported.

...and deleted

...and banned.

Neil3030

Are there streams to this game anywhere?

tallaghtoutlaws

Neil3030 wrote: »

Are there streams to this game anywhere?

Sending you a PM

Its on Channel 5 if you have Sky digital.

eagle eye

And another pm sent too. And woohoo Randy Moss you legend!:D

Hazys

Brady is getting closer and closer to his form on the perfect season each week...still a long way to go in this game

cruiserweight

Moss already has 144 yards off of 4 receptions and 1 TD :eek: Going to be a long night for the Colts back up secondary

galwaydude

Randy moss and brady having a field day so far. 24-7 now. Go Pats.

tallaghtoutlaws

I can't believe the score right now to be honest. I knew the Colts were weak in their secondary but their Safeties are non existent right now. I expected a better game by Indy both offensively and defensively poor right now. Great pressure by the Pats. But I wont get too happy just yet still plenty of time left for Indy to turn this.

Chucky the tree

Wow, did pats just throw this away?

tallaghtoutlaws

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Wow, did pats just throw this away?

Yup

Interference call that should never have been but yup going for it on 4th down was fooking stupid.

Chanandler Bong

not even going to celebrate out of respect for how much New Engalnd should have won this game :rolleyes:

tallaghtoutlaws

Chanandler Bong wrote: »

not even going to celebrate out of respect for how much New Engalnd should have won this game :rolleyes:

We threw it away man celebrate away. Going for it on your own 29 on 4th down was fooking ridiculous. Worst decision BB has ever made. Mind blowing. Kick it long and make em work for the win.

cruiserweight

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Yup

Interference call that should never have been but yup going for it on 4th down was fooking stupid.

+1 bad call by Belichick and bad calls by the officials

Dodge

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Worst decision BB has ever made.

Exactly what I thought

Just a terrible, terrible decision

Chucky the tree

lol, epic fail bill.

tallaghtoutlaws

Man I shouted so loud calling him so many names. If I did that in the IAFL I would be laughed off the sideline. Jebus what was he thinking Peyton Manning is equally as good as your own QB Bill. Would you let Brady have the ball on your own 29 bill would you??? IDIOT! Im off to cry now good night :(:(

DonkeyPokerTour

Fook blaming bill, Fook blaming the ref's

Enjoy the game for what it was, Over 700 passing yards, Over 200 yards Rushing, 9 TD's, 2 FG. Simply amazing.

A 24point unanswered streek, a comeback from 17points down, A pick in the end zone, a fumble in the endzone. Amazing Amazing Amazing.

cooker3

Wow. I am absolutely stunned by that. Clock management was utterly awful and to go for that 4th and 2. Incredible.
Although it seemed a bad call by officials on replay but still. Once again the game delivered.

Chucky the tree

DonkeyPokerTour wrote: »

Fook blaming bill, Fook blaming the ref's

Enjoy the game for what it was, Over 700 passing yards, Over 200 yards Rushing, 9 TD's, 2 FG. Simply amazing.

A 24point unanswered streek, a comeback from 17points down, A pick in the end zone, a fumble in the endzone. Amazing Amazing Amazing.

Not if your a pats fan, two teams now gunning for the 16-0 perfect season as well. If it ends being their bitter rivals the colts who do it then they will be even sicker due to this game.

tallaghtoutlaws

DonkeyPokerTour wrote: »

Fook blaming bill, Fook blaming the ref's

Enjoy the game for what it was, Over 700 passing yards, Over 200 yards Rushing, 9 TD's, 2 FG. Simply amazing.

A 24point unanswered streek, a comeback from 17points down, A pick in the end zone, a fumble in the endzone. Amazing Amazing Amazing.

Im sorry no disrespect to you DPT but Im a die hard Pats fan and losing is never enjoyable especially to a rival team when we threw it away. Doesn't matter how good it was for the neutral. All I care about it the Patriots getting that W in the standings. Stats come second best.

Hazys

One thing you have to admit is Bill has balls...

I presonally wouldnt have go for it but i can see Bill's reasoning, the only issue i have were the 2 first plays of crappy run down the clock plays then making the decision to win the way we know how to win...we shud have done that for the first two plays also.

Bad spot by the officals and unfortunitly no both review because it was b4 the 2 min warning.

Colts were pretty poor even tho i felt the Pats were the much better team today you cant give the ball away twice in the red zone and win against Peyton Manning

tallaghtoutlaws

cooker3 wrote: »

Wow. I am absolutely stunned by that. Clock management was utterly awful and to go for that 4th and 2. Incredible.
Although it seemed a bad call by officials on replay but still. Once again the game delivered.

The interferance call was a bad call. Chung went for the ball with his back to the WR they were both looking at the ball. The catch on 4th down however was 50/50 but Bill going for it was the worst decision tonight. Whatever about Refs getting it wrong you can look past but your HC making an insane call that potentially loses you the ball on your own 29 with 2mins left and you are up by 6 is hard to swallow.

tallaghtoutlaws

Hazys wrote: »

One thing you have to admit is Bill has balls...

Balls is a good thing when you are on the 50 or looking for inches or there is 10 seconds left in the game but that call was insane. Giving Peyton Manning the ball on our own 29? Sure I can see what he hoped to do but play it safe. Make Manning drive the ball in a 2 min situation.

Wow dudes I apologise for all the ranting I can't stomach this and Im off to bed enough of me for the night lol

Dodge

Small bit of karma for the amount of times Bill's Patriots have been ahead by 20+ points and gone for it on 4th down

This ame could cost Pats home field advantage in play offs.

kmart6

Jesus can't believe he went for that on 4th!!!! That said the Colts still had to score so showed good execution when needed!!

davyjose

Chanandler Bong wrote: »

not even going to celebrate out of respect for how much New Engalnd should have won this game :rolleyes:

Dude, in fairness a win against the Pats never comes easy. I couldn't watch it unfortunately, but I'm blown away by the comeback - even if we got lucky. Go Colts!

bruschi

could still end up having the bye week and home field for that, and then having to go back to Lucas Oil and playing the Colts again should we get that far. Some tough teams gunning for that wild card. looking like Steelers and Broncos/Chargers. I hate playing the Steelers. I wouldnt mind not having home field if we dont get the bye and have to travel to either Cincy or Indy. As good as the Bengals are, and their defence is great, I still think the PAts would take them. Just have to make sure we beate the Jets next tho and close out the division. A loss there and then having to play the Saints would not go down well.

kev_s88

that was actually one of the most stupid coaching decisions ive ever seen!!! although i hate the patriots, i hate the colts more being a Jags fan and for the first time in my life i was rooting for the Pats...and then BB goes and does something stupid like that to ruin my night i hate you Bill Belichik, you and your stupid poop mouth decisions!!!

ReacherCreature

Gutted.

Give Peyton Manning an inch, you might as well give him a mile.

I'd still be worried if we booted away, Manning's that good imo.

A gamble by Bill albeit an awful one.

themont85

One issue for the Patriots is the lack of running. I thought once Moss started raping the Colts feeble secondary that the running game would open up but Moroney didn't imo do nearly as good a job as Falwk who ran from the shotgun a lot. How the Patriots didn't chew up more clock I don't know in the fourth. They had plenty of chances to do so. We just saw BB make a boo boo in an important game, makes a change.

Also whilst Manning didn't have his best game, I think he has MVP almost wrapped up.

Lothaar

I reckon it was a decent decision by Belichick. Taking such a risk is always gonna look crazy if it doesn't pay off. It boils down to whether or not you trust your D to stop Manning. He obviously didn't think they'd be able to stop the Colts from scoring if they punted - Manning would get the ball around the Colts' 30 with 2 mins left.

By going for it, Belichick put the game on the shoulders of Tom Brady rather than his defense. If you're going to put the game on somebody's shoulders, there's no better man.

dougal

Lothaar wrote: »

If you're going to put the game on somebody's shoulders, there's no better man.

Obviously there is - Peyton Manning!:p

DonkeyPokerTour

Guys you's are getting all bent outta shape because BB decided to go for it on 4th down and thats the "reason" you lost. However, if Brady was not picked in the endzone (on a ball that Moss had only for the intercept), and maroney did not fumble the ball virtually in the endzone the game would have been over even with the great Manning on the other side.

Going for it on 4th and 2 was brave, if it comes off your a genius, if it doesn't well then everyone goes way ott and basically calls you an idiot. Be honest Patriot fans, if Bill didn't make these "mad" calls occasionally would he have won 3 superbowls? You live by the sward you die by the sward.

As for anyone who was not a Pats fan, surely this is game of the season so far?

LuckyLloyd

The decision to go for it was absolutely the correct call. On betting exchanges after the fourth down conversion failed, the Patriots were still considered to be 40% to win the game. So you need to think about three competing variables:

- percentage chance of you converting on 4th down and winning the game;
- percentage chance of you winning the game if you punt;
- percentage chance of you winning the game if you fail to convert (40%);

A lot can go wrong on a punt, though you assume you'll average 35 - 40 yards off it. Given the way the Patriots defense had been playing during the second half, I am comfortable that forsaking that 35 yards is worth it for a 4th and 2 to end the game. Or, another way to consider the scenario is to weigh up:

- the percentage chance of Manning making up the 35 yards you gain off the punt;
- the percentage chance of you converting on 4th down and winning the game;

Because the Colts are going to have to do the last 28 yards in either scenario, and those yards will be the hardest to get as the defense compresses upon the goal-line. There is no way that going for it wasn't the correct decision, and it is a testament to Bill's job security and his personal commitment to good analysis that he went for it in full knowledge that every retard talking head in the media was going to eviscerate him the times they don't get it.

That isn't to say that he called a perfect game mind. While the 4th down call was correct, if he was going to go for it there then he needs to call a run on 3rd down to eat up another few seconds and hopefully make the 4th down a yard shorter. Yes, the Colts are going to be cheating on the run defensively, but they are going to be doing the same thing on 4th (even moreso). So just give yourself two shots to pound it in there.

On a sidenote, Brady being back in that sort of form can only be good news for Pats fans in terms of the bigger playoff / superbowl picture.

Chucky the tree

I think your theory of looking at it so that you only take in 35yards as the deciding factor is majorly flwared, while yes it's only 35 yards there is a massive massive difference going 70 yards in 2 minutes compared to 30 yards in 2 minutes. I definitly hugely disagree that going for it was the right call.

Not only that, but basically telling your defense you think there useless and then asking them to stop Manning from 30yards could have a huge effect on morale from now on. What kick in the sack for them. They played well enough but because of the offenses ineptitude in the redzone(2 turnovers) they basically get thrown under the bus by BB. Not only that but Manning already threw 2 ints so it's not like he was flawless, one was on a miscommunication in route it seemed so them having to go 70yards in 2 minutes would of put huge pressure on them.

Mad_Max

DonkeyPokerTour wrote: »

As for anyone who was not a Pats fan, surely this is game of the season so far?

Yep, well worth the lack of sleep!

LuckyLloyd

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I think your theory of looking at it so that you only take in 35yards as the deciding factor is majorly flwared, while yes it's only 35 yards there is a massive massive difference going 70 yards in 2 minutes compared to 30 yards in 2 minutes. I definitly hugely disagree that going for it was the right call.

Not only that, but basically telling your defense you think there useless and then asking them to stop Manning from 30yards could have a huge effect on morale from now on. What kick in the sack for them. They played well enough but because of the offenses ineptitude in the redzone(2 turnovers) they basically get thrown under the bus by BB. Not only that but Manning already threw 2 ints so it's not like he was flawless, one was on a miscommunication in route it seemed so them having to go 70yards in 2 minutes would of put huge pressure on them.

Yeah, but what a boon for your offense by putting the game on their shoulders and saying "I have faith in you to get it done". Plus if you want to go into this territory of analysis then you can say that the defense will feel hard done by because of the phantom PI call earlier in the game; and the offense will feel hard done by because they got a rotten spot on the conversion attempt. And that they will conclude they did enough to win the game but were gipped by the refs.

League average conversion rate on 3rd and 2 this season has been 55%. Obviously, you weigh up the fact that Brady and the Pats offense is above league average, and you take into account the fact that the defense in this case would be more determined than an average two yard conversion play - but the number you are going to end up with makes going for it essential.

Mad_Max

I agree with LL, stats wise it wasn't that bad a call.It reminded me of this piece I'd read few weeks back about a high-school coach who went for it all the time.

Story here

InkSlinger67

Just caught the highlights now. Peyton Manning is a legend.

As a Colts fan obviously I'm gonna say they're going all the way this season but I can't see any other team in either conference beating them in a meaningful game this year. They are winning ugly when they have to and there's something special with the Colt's offensive game this season that has been lacking since their last trip to the big show - maybe those X Factors OP was talking about - maybe sibling rivalry

Hazys

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The decision to go for it was absolutely the correct call. On betting exchanges after the fourth down conversion failed, the Patriots were still considered to be 40% to win the game. So you need to think about three competing variables:

- percentage chance of you converting on 4th down and winning the game;
- percentage chance of you winning the game if you punt;
- percentage chance of you winning the game if you fail to convert (40%);

A lot can go wrong on a punt, though you assume you'll average 35 - 40 yards off it. Given the way the Patriots defense had been playing during the second half, I am comfortable that forsaking that 35 yards is worth it for a 4th and 2 to end the game. Or, another way to consider the scenario is to weigh up:

- the percentage chance of Manning making up the 35 yards you gain off the punt;
- the percentage chance of you converting on 4th down and winning the game;

Because the Colts are going to have to do the last 28 yards in either scenario, and those yards will be the hardest to get as the defense compresses upon the goal-line. There is no way that going for it wasn't the correct decision, and it is a testament to Bill's job security and his personal commitment to good analysis that he went for it in full knowledge that every retard talking head in the media was going to eviscerate him the times they don't get it.

That isn't to say that he called a perfect game mind. While the 4th down call was correct, if he was going to go for it there then he needs to call a run on 3rd down to eat up another few seconds and hopefully make the 4th down a yard shorter. Yes, the Colts are going to be cheating on the run defensively, but they are going to be doing the same thing on 4th (even moreso). So just give yourself two shots to pound it in there.

On a sidenote, Brady being back in that sort of form can only be good news for Pats fans in terms of the bigger playoff / superbowl picture.

It was defly the right decision. Whether the Colts got the ball on the NE29 or the Colts 20, they had 2 mins, the 2 minute drill and 1 timeout, they were going to score. 2 minutes is a whole world of time to score.

When you have a 50/50 chance to win the game you take it.


What i dont like after reading Peter King's MMQB article, is him calling Bill's decision a bad decision when about 4 weeks ago when Bill decided to go for it on 4th and 1 against the Falcons in ur own half, he called it a great decision, the only difference is that we converted it...its still the same decision.



In Bill, I trust.

eagle eye

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The decision to go for it was absolutely the correct call. On betting exchanges after the fourth down conversion failed, the Patriots were still considered to be 40% to win the game. So you need to think about three competing variables:

- percentage chance of you converting on 4th down and winning the game;
- percentage chance of you winning the game if you punt;
- percentage chance of you winning the game if you fail to convert (40%);

A lot can go wrong on a punt, though you assume you'll average 35 - 40 yards off it. Given the way the Patriots defense had been playing during the second half, I am comfortable that forsaking that 35 yards is worth it for a 4th and 2 to end the game. Or, another way to consider the scenario is to weigh up:

- the percentage chance of Manning making up the 35 yards you gain off the punt;
- the percentage chance of you converting on 4th down and winning the game;

Because the Colts are going to have to do the last 28 yards in either scenario, and those yards will be the hardest to get as the defense compresses upon the goal-line. There is no way that going for it wasn't the correct decision, and it is a testament to Bill's job security and his personal commitment to good analysis that he went for it in full knowledge that every retard talking head in the media was going to eviscerate him the times they don't get it.

That isn't to say that he called a perfect game mind. While the 4th down call was correct, if he was going to go for it there then he needs to call a run on 3rd down to eat up another few seconds and hopefully make the 4th down a yard shorter. Yes, the Colts are going to be cheating on the run defensively, but they are going to be doing the same thing on 4th (even moreso). So just give yourself two shots to pound it in there.

On a sidenote, Brady being back in that sort of form can only be good news for Pats fans in terms of the bigger playoff / superbowl picture.

I didn't post last night because I wanted to have a long think about everything.
We didn't have much luck with a bad calls going against us late in the game but it all came down to this call and the timeouts taken just before it.
I don't agree at all that it is correct to go for it. And if you are going to go for it then you have to be prepared to give up the score on their first play and leave yourself time to get upfield for a field goal.

There are many reasons I don't agree with this decision to go for it.
1. Its more than likely they will score this deep in the field if you turn the ball over given that the Colts have scored a touchdown everytime they have been inside the New England 30.
2. Even if you get the first down they still have the 2 minute warning and 2 timeouts to stop you and get the ball back.
3. The Colts have thrown two interceptions and been stopped once and scored two touchdowns in five drives in the second half to this point. Thats a 40% strikerate.

LuckyLloyd

eagle eye wrote: »

I didn't post last night because I wanted to have a long think about everything.
We didn't have much luck with a bad calls going against us late in the game but it all came down to this call and the timeouts taken just before it.
I don't agree at all that it is correct to go for it. And if you are going to go for it then you have to be prepared to give up the score on their first play and leave yourself time to get upfield for a field goal.

There are many reasons I don't agree with this decision to go for it.
1. Its more than likely they will score this deep in the field if you turn the ball over given that the Colts have scored a touchdown everytime they have been inside the New England 30.
2. Even if you get the first down they still have the 2 minute warning and 2 timeouts to stop you and get the ball back.
3. The Colts have thrown two interceptions and been stopped once and scored two touchdowns in five drives in the second half to this point. Thats a 40% strikerate.

Oh come on, that's ridiculous. They will have to use the timeout to stop the clock once you've converted. You then have a full set of downs with 2 minutes. You will be kneeling and the game will be over (40 seconds ticks off per play).

LuckyLloyd

Hazys wrote: »

It was defly the right decision. Whether the Colts got the ball on the NE29 or the Colts 20, they had 2 mins, the 2 minute drill and 1 timeout, they were going to score. 2 minutes is a whole world of time to score.

When you have a 50/50 chance to win the game you take it.


What i dont like after reading Peter King's MMQB article, is him calling Bill's decision a bad decision when about 4 weeks ago when Bill decided to go for it on 4th and 1 against the Falcons in ur own half, he called it a great decision, the only difference is that we converted it...its still the same decision.



In Bill, I trust.

Nail on the head! The reaction is largely results orientated nonsense. You make the decision to go for it / not go for it in advance of the result. If that decision was flawed, making the play anyway doesn't make up for it - and vice versa.

There are loads of analysts who will be decrying the decision when they would have been hailing it if the spot had been more reasonable. It's just not a logical position to hold.

Also, there is loads of overrating Manning and the Colts (as hard as that is to believe!! ) on message boards and in the media this morning. Again, US betting exchanges gave them a 60% chance of winning the game from the 28 yard line. A lot of the talk is working off the assumption that Manning bangs it in 90% of the time. That is just wrong, so wrong.