Mercedes buy Brawn

Woden

Just seen it there now on BBC

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8362295.stm

Interesting stuff. I presume things will fall into place now as the article suggests.

Cookie_Monster

Wow

Good news for Rosberg and Heidfeld if it pans out!

hi_sir

intresting to see how this will bring the team forward the investment will be there but i fell the driver line up is not overly great to contest a drivers and manufacturers title.
with this take over where does this leave the team base will it continue in the uk or will a move to germany be in the pipeline

Kersh

Button to McLaren... I like the guy, I think he deserved his title this year, but christ he will murdered at McLaren.

So Kimi to Brawn?

Frank Bullitt

Kersh wrote: »

Button to McLaren... I like the guy, I think he deserved his title this year, but christ he will murdered at McLaren.

So Kimi to Brawn?

If McLaren cant afford Kimi, then Brawn/Mercedes wont be able to, I'd say Rosberg and Heidfeld or Glock.

zeris

Can't think why Kimi would go to Brawn. It would be 8 years since Kimi was at such a small (relatively) team. Brawn had left Ferrari when Kimi arrived so no link there. Norbert Haug supposedly likes Kimi but which garage will Haug be standing in next season.

Glock is rumored to be going to Renault. Another German in Brawn? Heidfeld?

Frank Bullitt

zeris wrote: »

Can't think why Kimi would go to Brawn. It would be 8 years since Kimi was at such a small (relatively) team. Brawn had left Ferrari when Kimi arrived so no link there. Norbert Haug supposedly likes Kimi but which garage will Haug be standing in next season.

Glock is rumored to be going to Renault. Another German in Brawn? Heidfeld?

Apparently Haug will be in the new teams garage,Brawn/Mercedes.

Chopper888

Looks like Kimi will have no competitive drive if Button goes to Mclaren and Rosberg and Heidfeld sign for Brawn.

Slutmonkey57b

Merc failed to turn McLaren into a works team so they've done it with Brawn.
Bad news for Ross, Norbert will be calling the shots in there now.
Bad news for Jenson, he's being ousted in favour of a couple of Germans who are getting the job on the basis of nationality rather than skill.
Good news for Ron Dennis who gets to keep his F1 engines and run his own car company without having to answer to ze germanz.
Bad news for Merc, these manufacturer buyins don't usually work, especially when the running of the team is less important than the opinions of head office management (see: Honda, BMW, Toyota.....)

Ghost Train

Wow, didn't see that coming. Will be really interesting to see if the team keeps their form for next year. Good way for Mercedes to come into the sport fully and at the top. I hope they get a top driver like Kimi that will give them every chance of a championship for the new season

Stevie Dakota

BMW must be really hacked off at this news.

Ghost Train

Stevie Dakota wrote: »

BMW must be really hacked off at this news.

Or Honda, didn't they basically fund Brawn this season, would be interesting to see what sort of money was involved and if Ross Brawn or anybody else turned a quick profit.

Honda are believed to be bankrolling the outfit for the first year of their existence to the tune of more than £70 million, roughly the amount it would have cost the Japanese manufacturer to wind the company up.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/4950723/Ross-Brawns-Formula-One-team-complete-Honda-takeover.html

thegoth

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

Merc failed to turn McLaren into a works team so they've done it with Brawn.
Bad news for Ross, Norbert will be calling the shots in there now.
Bad news for Jenson, he's being ousted in favour of a couple of Germans who are getting the job on the basis of nationality rather than skill.
Good news for Ron Dennis who gets to keep his F1 engines and run his own car company without having to answer to ze germanz.
Bad news for Merc, these manufacturer buyins don't usually work, especially when the running of the team is less important than the opinions of head office management (see: Honda, BMW, Toyota.....)

Good news for Ross Brawn. Buying a company for £1. Having the running costs covered for Honda for the year. Winning the world drivers and comstructors championship. Selling it 11 months later for God only knows how many million plus still having a very well paid job in the company plus if the team now fails, Haug and Merc will be blamed. I'd say he will have to have the smile surgerically removed from his face. I would

ednwireland

how come button is so bad at contract negotiations, not the first time he's ended up somewhere i dont think he should be (it might work out but i doubt it, he'll be second fiddle to hamilton)

frostie500

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

Bad news for Merc, these manufacturer buyins don't usually work, especially when the running of the team is less important than the opinions of head office management (see: Honda, BMW, Toyota.....)

I wouldn't be quick to put Merc in the same line as BMW, Honda or Toyota. Merc have been in F1 for 15 years now with their Ilmor badged engine and have shown great comittment to the sport, shown again by extending their agreement with McLaren.

This team won't go down the same route as the aforementioned teams in terms of chain of command and decision making. The board have been involved in racing for a long time and know how teams need to be run. Also it seems that Ross Brawn will continue in the role of Technical Director which will help immensly until Merc train someone up to replace him a few years down the line.

vectra

I dont know why so many people reckon Brawn could not afford Kimi..
about it being a small team

Brawn are double champs ( Says a lot for the car.
Merc are top engine with lots of dosh ( Haug wants Kimi..?)

Looks like a good settling camp for Kimi

Brawn giving Ferrari a double wammy >> Priceless:D

EvilMonkey

I didn't think this would go through until next year. I wonder if McLaren will go back to their old livery, Brawns will defiantly be silver anyway.

vectra wrote: »

Brawn giving Ferrari a double wammy >> Priceless:D

Did he not do that already?

robinph

I thought that Kimi's main requirement was that he be allowed to do rally as well? The money not being much of an issue as he gets more money from Ferrari regardless for next year, if he's driving or not.

zeris

EvilMonkey wrote: »

I wonder if McLaren will go back to their old livery

The bright orange would certainly catch the eye.

zeris

robinph wrote: »

I thought that Kimi's main requirement was that he be allowed to do rally as well? The money not being much of an issue as he gets more money from Ferrari regardless for next year, if he's driving or not.

Maybe Kimi can take up some Montoya style tennis or expect a couple of entries by James Hunt.

hi_sir

robinph wrote: »

I thought that Kimi's main requirement was that he be allowed to do rally as well? The money not being much of an issue as he gets more money from Ferrari regardless for next year, if he's driving or not.

yes he wants to be free to do a bit of rallying as well,perhaps if he were to go to brawn he would be contracted to mercedes and that would shut the door to rallying,they would hardly like to see him doing the odd rally in another companys car.

vectra

EvilMonkey wrote: »

I didn't think this would go through until next year. I wonder if McLaren will go back to their old livery, Brawns will defiantly be silver anyway.

Did he not do that already?

Well, Yes sorry
What I meant was for Brawn to be Ex ferrari and beat hem
Then take one of their drivers and beat them again

Frank Bullitt

vectra wrote: »

I dont know why so many people reckon Brawn could not afford Kimi..
about it being a small team

Brawn are double champs ( Says a lot for the car.
Merc are top engine with lots of dosh ( Haug wants Kimi..?)

Looks like a good settling camp for Kimi

Brawn giving Ferrari a double wammy >> Priceless:D

He has priced himself out of a drive though,he wants a fortune and for what? He is the most hot and cold driver on the grid(thats what does my head in with kimi,not committed enough)

Rosberg was very strong this year and has been in F1 for a while now as well so I can see him in the new Merc team, Heidfeld would fit in there as well, Button has the right price for McLaren so i cant see Kimi on the grid next year,or even ever again.

Slutmonkey57b

thegoth wrote: »

Good news for Ross Brawn. Buying a company for £1. Having the running costs covered for Honda for the year. Winning the world drivers and comstructors championship. Selling it 11 months later for God only knows how many million plus still having a very well paid job in the company plus if the team now fails, Haug and Merc will be blamed. I'd say he will have to have the smile surgerically removed from his face. I would

Ross has more than enough money from his Ferrari days. He's not in it for the money, he's in it because he likes it. Running his own team under his own auspices clearly meant a lot to him this year, he's run things according to his own philosophy and been answerable to nobody (see various comments about previous management styles he's been avoiding, and his breakdown on the air in Brazil).

Next year, he's got Haug hanging about in his garage calling the German GP "The Home GP" of the team and running between two owners (Merc and the Arabs) to explain what he's up to. Not an enviable position.

Running Bing

Pretty disappointing news for me.

I always loved Honda so Brawn was a pretty natural choice for me to support. I also always like Jenson but Ive always disliked McClaren and Mercedes.

I always identified with Honda and classed myself as a fan....it was'nt as intense with Brawn but I would've still classed myself as a fan.

Now there's not really any team I would identify with.:(

Really hope Jenson does well though. Would love to see him beat Hamilton and I would also like to see Kimi stay with Ferrari and have a great season next year....I would actually love to see him win it again (he doesnt seem to have many options outside of Ferrari).

Firewalkwithme

Running Bing wrote: »

I would also like to see Kimi stay with Ferrari and have a great season next year....I would actually love to see him win it again (he doesnt seem to have many options outside of Ferrari).

He doesn't have an option inside Ferrari, they dropped him.

projectmayhem

Only finding this out now. Next season will be more interesting before the season starts! Did not see this one coming. Fair play to Ross, he's managed to make himself a tidy sum undoubtedly, all while managing to keep a good reputation. Hard to do in F1

enzo7

Gintonious wrote: »

He has priced himself out of a drive though,he wants a fortune and for what? He is the most hot and cold driver on the grid(thats what does my head in with kimi,not committed enough)

Rosberg was very strong this year and has been in F1 for a while now as well so I can see him in the new Merc team, Heidfeld would fit in there as well, Button has the right price for McLaren so i cant see Kimi on the grid next year,or even ever again.

ya would competely agree!! doe i dont think moving to mclaren will b gud for button he would hav faired better against rosberg dan hamilton. hamilton will destroy him!! I find it very hard to understand why either mclaren or brawn would seriously consider signing kimi at any price.

EvilMonkey

enzo7 wrote: »

I find it very hard to understand why either mclaren or brawn would seriously consider signing kimi at any price.

Because he finished the second half of last year scoring loads of points in a under performing Ferrari scoring more points in the last 8 races then drivers in faster cars?

Iron Hide

enzo7 wrote: »

ya would competely agree!! doe i dont think moving to mclaren will b gud for button he would hav faired better against rosberg dan hamilton. hamilton will destroy him!! I find it very hard to understand why either mclaren or brawn would seriously consider signing kimi at any price.

He's only got a world championship to his name after all, and a couple of second places to boot, and he dragged this years F60 (which most of the time decided to be a teapot rather than a car) kicking screaming howling and bawling to fourth place, and a win at Spa..

And when Kimi fires on all cylinders he's well capable of beating anyone on the grid...

enzo7

the problem with kimi is he doesnt be firing on all cylinders enough, if your paying a guy the stupid money he is demanding you expect them to be on form from round 1 and not from when they find out there getting the bullet and they hav to actually fight for their f1 career. living off your past glorys doesnt gurantee you a top drive which he is now finding out. its a pity because he could hav bn a great driver.

Iron Hide

enzo7 wrote: »

the problem with kimi is he doesnt be firing on all cylinders enough, if your paying a guy the stupid money he is demanding you expect them to be on form from round 1 and not from when they find out there getting the bullet and they hav to actually fight for their f1 career. living off your past glorys doesnt gurantee you a top drive which he is now finding out. its a pity because he could hav bn a great driver.

Would you care to explain that please??

Firewalkwithme

Red Storm wrote: »

Would you care to explain that please??

I thought he explained it quite clearly and besides, it has been discussed he before. Kimi is not consistent enough, he's not worth the money and I hope he is not on the grid next season.

Iron Hide

Cartoon_Head wrote: »

I thought he explained it quite clearly and besides, it has been discussed he before. Kimi is not consistent enough, he's not worth the money and I hope he is not on the grid next season.

what on earth does a driver have to do to be considered great??

Firewalkwithme

Red Storm wrote: »

what on earth does a driver have to do to be considered great??

Be consistent for a start.

EvilMonkey

What stupid money is he demanding? All I have heard him demand is a competitive car. Sure Toyota said they couldn't afford him but he wasn't interested in going there.

Anyway he's a better driver than most on the grid just turning up, and a good personality too if he is not there next year for whatever reason i will be disappointed.

He's what i imagine F1 drivers were like in the old days before the corporate sterilising of F1, turn up hop in the car and drive, none of the media bull or anything else. :cool:

vectra

EvilMonkey wrote: »

All I have heard him demand is a competitive car. Sure Toyota said they couldn't afford him but he wasn't interested in going there.

Anyway he's a better driver than most on the grid just turning up, and a good personality too if he is not there next year for whatever reason i will be disappointed.

He's what i imagine F1 drivers were like in the old days before the corporate sterilising of F1, turn up hop in the car and drive, none of the media bull or anything else. :cool:

I'm with you on that


I for one will miss him if he leaves

vectra

enzo7 wrote: »

the problem with kimi is he doesnt be firing on all cylinders enough,

Give him a car that is good and is a winning car
ie.
2009 Brawn
2009 Red Bull
Once Kimi can see it is a winning car it would be very difficult to beat him.
Give anyone a wheelbarrow and it is very hard to stay motivated

enzo7

well looks like his finnished now anyway, any we wont hav to waste another 2nd argueing about him thank god!!

anyway one last point on him ,why would you pay a guy $45 to win only if he has a "winning car" and you can get button a very average f1 driver to win a world championship for $6 million. doesnt make since even mclaren were able to figure that out.

vectra

enzo7 wrote: »

well looks like his finnished now anyway, any we wont hav to waste another 2nd argueing about him thank god!!

anyway one last point on him ,why would you pay a guy $45 to win only if he has a "winning car" and you can get button a very average f1 driver to win a world championship for $6 million. doesnt make since even mclaren were able to figure that out.

Thats a no brainer really
The Brawn car was in a league of its own
Had Kimi or Lewis being driving that car this season, the whole thing would have been wrapped up a lot sooner.

amacachi

Not consistent enough? Please, look at the years he finished runner-up, usually down to retirements as much as his inconsistency. He's twice had a car capable of winning the title and did it one of those two times.

Alun

enzo7 wrote: »

well looks like his finnished now anyway, any we wont hav to waste another 2nd argueing about him thank god!!

frostie500

enzo7 wrote: »

anyway one last point on him ,why would you pay a guy $45 to win only if he has a "winning car" and you can get button a very average f1 driver to win a world championship for $6 million. doesnt make since even mclaren were able to figure that out.

Why does it seem that everyone thinks Kimi wants the same deal he had at Ferrari? That deal was done in a strong economy pre recession, his managers would be plainly aware of this and it is not their fault or Kimi's that Ferrari designated him as the heir to Schumi and offered him huge money. Its said a lot that he lacks motivation but how many drivers have been able to follow their title win with another? It happens to a lot of drivers that they underperform the next year. As other posters have noted he had a cracking second half to the season when he was given the support of Ferrari

Frank Bullitt

Either way,i think its bye-bye Kimi,its a bit of a pitty cause i did like him,Alonso in a Ferrari is still something to look forward to.

enzo7

vectra wrote: »

Thats a no brainer really
The Brawn car was in a league of its own
Had Kimi or Lewis being driving that car this season, the whole thing would have been wrapped up a lot sooner.

i think your missing my point, going on last seasons wages kimi was on $45 button on $6. Why would brawn pay kimi $45 when he can pay button $6 and still end the season double champs. ok button draged it out a little bit but is really worth spending an extra $39 mil just to wrap up the titles a few races earlier??? What can kimi offer a team dat button doesnt?? I know he wouldnt hav a hope of getting $45 or even $10 at this stage. Kimi stock has fallen a hell of alot since he got dat ferrari contract. Anyway it doesnt really make a diffrence what u or i think of him it was mclaren think dats relevant, and it isnt look too good.

vectra

enzo7 wrote: »

i think your missing my point, going on last seasons wages kimi was on $45 button on $6. Why would brawn pay kimi $45 when he can pay button $6 and still end the season double champs. ok button draged it out a little bit but is really worth spending an extra $39 mil just to wrap up the titles a few races earlier??? What can kimi offer a team dat button doesnt?? I know he wouldnt hav a hope of getting $45 or even $10 at this stage. Kimi stock has fallen a hell of alot since he got dat ferrari contract. Anyway it doesnt really make a diffrence what u or i think of him it was mclaren think dats relevant, and it isnt look too good.

You are missing my point
I know I am a Kimi fan but anyone could tell you that if you put button and kimi in identical cars then I am afraid Button would lose out.

Vegeta

vectra wrote: »

You are missing my point
I know I am a Kimi fan but anyone could tell you that if you put button and kimi in identical cars then I am afraid Button would lose out.

If their wages were equal then I think Kimi would be picked everyday of the week over Jenson. But the point I think enzo is making, which is a pretty valid point, Is if you have a top car you don't need a top driver or the high wage bill associated with a top driver.

As you said yourself no matter how talented a driver is, and Kimi is a very talented driver, If he's driving a lemon he wont win the championship.

On the other hand if you have a top car with a reasonably talented driver (Brawn and Button) you can win the championship. That's exactly what we saw this season.

vectra

Vegeta wrote: »

If their wages were equal then I think Kimi would be picked everyday of the week over Jenson. But the point I think enzo is making, which is a pretty valid point, Is if you have a top car you don't need a top driver or the high wage bill associated with a top driver.

As you said yourself no matter how talented a driver is, and Kimi is a very talented driver, If he's driving a lemon he wont win the championship.

On the other hand if you have a top car with a reasonably talented driver (Brawn and Button) you can win the championship. That's exactly what we saw this season.

I agree
BUT
Do you think that Brawn will have the only top car next season?
What would happen to button if
Brawn
RBR
McLaren
Ferrari
all had top cars and Button driving the brawn
Lewis in Macca
Kimi in the other Brawn or Macca
Alonso in Ferrari
as already stated
Kimi got that price to drive when things were good.
He also landed the title for them that same year.

frostie500

Same way as I think Vectra, 2009 is finished and Formula 1 has moved on. With a full year of understanding the new regs(bar refueling) its unlikely that there will be a team with the dominance of Brawn-and even less likely that it will be Mercedes-as a result you have to maximise what you can change now and for Merc that is finding the best possible driver at an affordable rate. Whether it is Kimi, Jenson or someone else is debatable but the premise is the same

enzo7

Will kimi even take a brawn drive?? or is he only intrested in mclaren?

thegoth

Brawn should not pay mad money for Kimi. Lets take this

Kimi wants around €17 million
Button wants around €6-7 million

Difference in wages = €10 million

Kimi is likely about .15 to .2 seconds a lap faster than Button

Brawn and likely Mercedes ( and me for whats its worth) think that they can get more than .15 to .2 seconds a lap out of the car by spending the €10 million that they save of not hiring Kimi on car development. This is the added benefit of making both cars that bit faster

For the record, I quiet like Kimi. He is a fast driver and brings a bit of spark to F1 but he needs to just sign. Show he has some passion and respect for F1. He is in danger of alienating the fans if he keeps this up much longer, but actually, its unlikely he gives a sh*t