Sinn Féin Budget Proposals

waffleman

Here is what Sinn Féin are proposing:

http://www.breakingnews.ie/text/ireland/eymheyojauql/

A third rate of income tax for high-earners and a €100,000 euro cap on public sector pay were among a range of tough budget measures outlined by Sinn Féin today.

TDs’ and ministers’ salaries would also be limited to the six-figure sum.

The party claims its budget proposals would raise €7.62bn and serve as an alternative to cutting vital public services or social welfare.

A spokesman said: “The party shows with our carefully considered and costed proposals that it is possible to raise the finance needed to maintain frontline public services, protect those in need, reduce the deficit in State finances and provide an economic stimulus package to create jobs.”

The party said its plans could slash the budget deficit by €3.7bn and raise enough cash to fund a €3.94bn stimulus package to help kick-start the crumbling economy.

The majority of the proposals – €5.62bn – would come from tax measures based on wealth and the targeting of wasteful spending.

The proposals include:
- A third tax rate of 48% on individual earnings in excess of €100,000 euro - Raises €355m
- Capping the maximum salary available to public servants and semi-state bodies at €100,000 – Saves €450m.
- Capping TDs’ salaries at €75,000 and Senators’ salaries at €60,000, with a maximum cap of €100,000 and €80,000 respectively – Saves €4.8m.
- Standardising all discretionary tax reliefs – Raises €1.1 bn.
- Introduce a 1% wealth tax on all assets worth more than €1m, excluding farmland, regardless of residency rules – Raises €1.6bn euro.

The party also proposes a range of property-related measures.

These include:
- Abolishing all remaining property-based tax reliefs (on property development, not principal home mortgage interest relief) – Raises €43m.
- Scrapping mortgage interest relief for landlords – Raises €285m.
- Increase tax on second homes to €600, to include holiday homes and rental properties only – Raises around €120m.

Other money raising schemes range from increasing Dirt to 5% to hiking Capital Gains tax to 40% and abolishing the PRSI ceiling.

Sinn Féin also proposes a €3.218bn economic stimulus package to boost jobs, and a €723m scheme to protect struggling households.

Some big cuts being proposed there. I would like to know how the 4bn stimulus package would be used.

Danno

- Increase tax on second homes to €600, to include holiday homes and rental properties only – Raises around €120m.

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Taxing rental properties would not serve anything IMHO. Social Welfare would have to dish out more in rent allowance to combat the increases.

ei.sdraob

Sinn Fein and economics :eek:

this is same party that still has listed on their site that they want to kill all business in the country by raising corpo tax rate to 20-30%

MikeC101

Introduce a 1% wealth tax on all assets worth more than €1m, excluding farmland, regardless of residency rules – Raises €1.6bn euro.

What exactly does this mean? If my assets are decided by the government to be worth €1 million, I have to pay them €10,000 a year? I have to say, if my assets were above a certain level, that might be all the incentive I'd need to apply for citizenship of Monaco or wherever and stop paying any taxation here.

Standardising all discretionary tax reliefs – Raises €1.1 bn.

It will? How, exactly? 1.1 billion seems like an awful lot.

baztard

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Sinn Fein and economics :eek:

this is same party that still has listed on their site that they want to kill all business in the country by raising corpo tax rate to 20-30%

Some of their ideas other than corporation tax look very good. Don't automatically dismiss them, just because they came from Sinn Féin.

Stark

The one thing I liked about the proposals was the call for a freeze on tv license and public transport hikes. Let them cut RTE presenters' salaries or try to achieve some sort of efficiency in C.I.E. if they're stuck for money.

Euro_Kraut

MikeC101 wrote: »

What exactly does this mean? If my assets are decided by the government to be worth €1 million, I have to pay them €10,000 a year?

Thats what it looks like. Its a huge figure to be throwing around. I'm not sure how the valuation of assests would work out. €10,000 a year to own a family farm that is worth €1million in a market that doesn't exists sounds a bit extereme.

I am also curious as to how €450million can be saved by capping public sector salaries at €100,000. I suspect that they have not taken to reduced tax take into account.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Don't think the "wealth tax" is a good idea. Loads of people have homes worth 300-600K who struggle with their mortgages.

In theory I like the third band of tax but would be worried it might send high quality personnel like doctors to the UK.

MikeC101

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

Thats what is looks like. Its a huge figure to be throwing around. I'm not sure how the valuation of assests would work out. €10,000 a year to own a family farm that is worth €1million in a market that doesn't exists sounds a bit extereme.

I am also curious as to how €450million can be saved by capping public sector salaries at €100,000. I suspect that they have not taken to reduced tax take into account.

I think farming land would be exempt, but you make a very good point about something valued at €1 million in a market that doesn't exist. Take into account how house prices exploded over the past years, it's not hard to imagine that there are plenty of people who either own, or are paying mortgages on properties that start approaching that figure, regardless of what it was worth twenty years ago. It doesn't necessarily stand to reason that they can afford to pay 10 grand a year.

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

I am also curious as to how €450million can be saved by capping public sector salaries at €100,000. I suspect that they have not taken to reduced tax take into account.

Would that include consultants in hospitals? While I agree they're overpaid by European standards, cutting their salaries to €100,000 would surely lead to a huge exodus, they'd get a lot more than that in most other countries wouldn't they?

ei.sdraob

MikeC101 wrote: »

but you make a very good point about something valued at €1 million in a market that doesn't exist.

now now did you not get the memo

Long Term Economic Value ftw

Lifelike

waffleman wrote: »

Some big cuts being proposed there. I would like to know how the 4bn stimulus package would be used.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1116/budget.html says:

In its proposed stimulus package, the party is suggesting a €600m jobs retention fund for small and medium enterprises and a price freeze on State-controlled services.
Sinn Féin is also proposing an extra €2bn on increasing community employment schemes and a new National Development Scheme involving labour-intensive infrastructure work.
It is suggesting a 20% cut in excise duty on alcohol for the four-week period from Budget Day to after Christmas.
There is also a household stimulus package, involving the reintroduction of the Christmas bonus, the protection of child benefit and social welfare rates, and the freezing of everyday expenses like public transport and TV licences.

So there you go. Not a bad plan in fairness.

rcecil

Nice to see there's a party that still represents the majority

danman

rcecil wrote: »

Nice to see there's a party that still represents the majority

Majority of Who exactly?
3 TD's is not the majority vote of the population of The Republic.

MikeC101

danman wrote: »

Majority of Who exactly?
3 TD's is not the majority vote of the population of The Republic.

The "majority" who want to believe that our current problems can all be solved by a "taxing the rich" policy, without taking into account the overall effects of such a strategy.

danman

MikeC101 wrote: »

The "majority" who want to believe that our current problems can all be solved by a "taxing the rich" policy, without taking into account the overall effects of such a strategy.

Ahh, that majority.

1huge1

Lifelike wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1116/budget.html says:

So there you go. Not a bad plan in fairness.

Must admit I am glad to hear a political party finally talk about bringing the excise duty down on alcohol, that would be able to plug the exodus of shoppers going north this christmas for the most part even if it is for a 4 week period.

But some of their other decisions are typical sinn fein clueless economic strategies.

Standardising all discretionary tax reliefs – Raises €1.1 bn. for example as said before I'm not entirely sure what they mean by this but saying that it could raise €1.1 bn. is very much so on the extreme side in my opinion.

Firefox10

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Sinn Fein and economics :eek:

this is same party that still has listed on their site that they want to kill all business in the country by raising corpo tax rate to 20-30%

So how many thousands more do they want on the dole?? Just another example of the fantasy economics of sinn fein. Still I got a good laugh out of their Proposals.

Taxipete29

Danno wrote: »

- Increase tax on second homes to €600, to include holiday homes and rental properties only – Raises around €120m.

---

Taxing rental properties would not serve anything IMHO. Social Welfare would have to dish out more in rent allowance to combat the increases.

The rent allowance has been reduced and is likely to be lowered further as opposed to being raised. The fact is that the market will not tolerate an increase in rent of any kind. Landlords will just have to absorb the cost.

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Sinn Fein and economics :eek:

this is same party that still has listed on their site that they want to kill all business in the country by raising corpo tax rate to 20-30%

While I am no fan of Sinn fein and would oppose any increase to corpo tax, if the figures in this plan hold up it looks good. I would like to see an independant assesment of it.

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Don't think the "wealth tax" is a good idea. Loads of people have homes worth 300-600K who struggle with their mortgages.

In theory I like the third band of tax but would be worried it might send high quality personnel like doctors to the UK.

Homes worth 300-600K wouldnt fall under the wealth tax. It says assets over a million. Basically they are talking about Pat Kenny style trophy homes.

I am sure the UK have a good supply of Doctors themselves. Why would they want ours??

nesf

I'd be very sceptical of some of their numbers. It would be interesting to see some proper costings of their proposals. Some of the numbers look very big, especially for tax increases given current economic conditions.

I'm also quite sceptical about the legality of breaching contracts and capping all public wages at 100K a year, especially with regard to consultants et al.

brianthebard

Interesting stuff, the 1% wealth tax will probably be the most controversial, depending on what exactly it would be applied to. Otherwise it seems refreshingly pragmatic.

dresden8

nesf wrote: »

I'm also quite sceptical about the legality of breaching contracts and capping all public wages at 100K a year, especially with regard to consultants et al.

Unilaterally cutting wages is exactly the same thing, which is what other parties are proposing, and a lot of boardsies are wetting themselves for.

who what when

Its a little bit extreme but theres definitly a lot of food for thought there.
Pity finna fail wouldnt take some of it on board

decies

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Sinn Fein and economics :eek:

this is same party that still has listed on their site that they want to kill all business in the country by raising corpo tax rate to 20-30%

Are you sure you dont mean kill all business men :eek:

ei.sdraob

decies wrote: »

Are you sure you dont mean kill all business men :eek:

whoooosh

not under their their "protection"

nesf

dresden8 wrote: »

Unilaterally cutting wages is exactly the same thing, which is what other parties are proposing, and a lot of boardsies are wetting themselves for.

It's not though. Relative cuts in wage are one thing, absolute cuts on wages is quite another. The latter is far more likely to bring out legal cases against the Government especially since for some it would mean a 50% pay cut.

K-9

1huge1 wrote: »

Standardising all discretionary tax reliefs – Raises €1.1 bn. for example as said before I'm not entirely sure what they mean by this but saying that it could raise €1.1 bn. is very much so on the extreme side in my opinion.

I assume pension tax deductibility is included in that. Could also be Capital Allowances and tax breaks.

Don't know how standard rating pension deductibility will go down in the Public Service. It will increase the Pension levy for people paying tax at the higher rate.

Diarmuid

nesf wrote: »

I'd be very sceptical of some of their numbers. It would be interesting to see some proper costings of their proposals. Some of the numbers look very big, especially for tax increases given current economic conditions.

I'm also quite sceptical about the legality of breaching contracts and capping all public wages at 100K a year, especially with regard to consultants et al.

Don't worry about that. SF certainly are not! They know they will not get near the levers of power so it doesn't matter if the numbers add up or not. Might swing them another seat in the next election, that's about the most they can hope for

brianthebard wrote: »

Interesting stuff, the 1% wealth tax will probably be the most controversial, depending on what exactly it would be applied to. Otherwise it seems refreshingly pragmatic.

pragmatic? In the words of Inigo Montoya "I don't think that word means what you think it means"

gnxx

Actually, some of these proposals are interesting.

The idea of capping TD salaries is great. The current government would be in a better position to negotiate pay deals etc, if the general public actually witnessed significant salary cuts for members of the dail.

The 1% wealth tax is also interesting. I'd guess that this is targeting a particular set of individuals who own significant assets in Ireland -- but are based in other countries for tax reasons. I'd call it a Bono tax :-)

Anybody holding an asset valued at €1,000,000 should be well able to absorb the €10,000. The only reason that somebody has something worth this much is (a) its an investment or (b) its vanity. If its an investment, it should gain more than 1% per annum and if its vanity, let them pay the tax.

For years this country has suffered problems related to tax incentives and property. It was obvious that a problem existed when significant commercial developments remained empty for the last five years. The tax incentives were enough to justify building even if the premises would remain empty for years. In turn, these tax incentives results in high commercial rents.

Diarmuid

gnxx wrote: »

The 1% wealth tax is also interesting. I'd guess that this is targeting a particular set of individuals who own significant assets in Ireland -- but are based in other countries for tax reasons. I'd call it a Bono tax :-)

You might like to see how a wealth tax worked out for other countries before you start to make a grab at other peoples pockets.

Eric Pinchet, author of a French tax guide, estimates the wealth tax earns the government about $2.6 billion a year but has cost the country more than $125 billion in capital flight since 1998.

nesf

gnxx wrote: »

The 1% wealth tax is also interesting. I'd guess that this is targeting a particular set of individuals who own significant assets in Ireland -- but are based in other countries for tax reasons. I'd call it a Bono tax :-)

Yes but the problem is that it's calculated based on assets held not income received. So you could have someone who inherited some asset but who does not have a high income having this 1% tax being levied on them essentially forcing them to sell the asset which could be a family home or similar.

In reality you'd have to put so many sub-clauses into the tax (no farm land counted, no family homes counted, no pensioners being liable etc) that you'd drastically reduce the amount you could effectively levy. You'd also have problems with such a scheme encouraging money to be moved out of the country or simply moving it into one of the excluded areas like farm land (got a lot of money? Simply buy farmland and rent it out and avoid the wealth tax!).

That's what makes these numbers so suspect. You'd have to undertake a very detailed examination to even conclude rough numbers for increased taxes and inevitably there are ways to avoid them. What was most likely done was to take some estimate of assets held of over 1 million in value by individuals and calculate 1% of that which gives you a number that will be far in excess of what you could expect to get from such a tax.

irish_bob

no worse than the labour parties proposals