No NCT, had test booked, guard said ok, received summons today.

Pasodobel

Hi all,

I am hoping for some advice which would be much appreciated.

About 3 months ago I was driving home from Limerick when stopped by a guard. Although my car was taxed and insured it had no NCT. I also had no driving licence in the car at the time but I produced this in my local garda station a week later.

I did however have a letter from NCT with a test date for 3 weeks time i.e 3 weeks after I was stopped. I had booked the NCT amidst the introduction of penalty points the previous May and due to the demand was forced to wait about 5/6 months for my test.

At the time the guard took all my details on his notepad, I showed him my NCT test date letter etc, and told me as long as I handed in my licence within 10 days I would be ok. My car has also since passed the NCT.

Today I received a summons to the district court in Limerick. I am just wondering has anyone had any similar experience? If so what sort of penalties am I looking at?

To be honest I was of the belief that this letter I had covered my arse, obviously I was wrong??? I also went almost 2 years beyond the date I should have got an NCT ie it was due in May 2007, this would obviously not stand in my favour with the judge.

And finally would anyone recommend I get a solicitor or just turn up myself.

Any comments or insights would be much appreciated.

Dave

Senna

I'd go and talk to the garda who stopped you first, seen you had the letter when stopped and you were under the impression that he was satisfied with it. It would be worth a try.

Anan1

I'd start by calling in for a chat with the Garda, if you explain that you now have an NCT then he might be prepared to ask that the charge be struck out. Other than that I think it's down to the judge on the day - it's never been legal to drive a car without a valid NCT.

Cuddlesworth

Pasodobel wrote: »

I also went almost 2 years beyond the date I should have got an NCT ie it was due in May 2007, this would obviously not stand in my favour with the judge.

I decided to single this part out. I don't think the guard was wrong, your the reason this law was introduced.

smash

did you do the test in the end? do you have a valid NCT now?

How Strange

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

I decided to single this part out. I don't think the guard was wrong, your the reason this law was introduced.

Eh, OP, when I started reading your mail I thought that your nct was out of date for 3 weeks so could understand the garda being lenient but 2 years :eek:

When I got my car tested the last time I was hard pushed to fit the test in before the nct expired. I asked them if it was ok to drive it over after the expiry date and they said it was a legal offence to have the car on the road after the nct expired. It was my responsibility to ensure it had been tested and recertified before expiry.

The only exception to this afaik is when it fails the test and you have 2 or 3 weeks to schedule a retest and you can drive the car during this period.

Go to court, plead your case and accept whatever punishment the judge hands down. Unless you got something in writing from the garda then it will look bad for you if you say you were told by a garda that it was alright to drive without an nct.

scorn

I'm sure under the letter of the law that it is an offence to drive without a valid NCT - BUT if you attempted to book an NCT in the last 6 months you'd have been lucky to get an appointment.

This happened with us - we tried to book in a reasonable time ahead, but were told that there were no available slots for months ahead. So what are we supposed to do?

The booking officer told me that once I had the letter confirming a booking date, we'd be ok - not necessarilly within the law, but they have to make concessions when their system is not efficient!

However, at least the car wasn't 2 years without NCT!

Pasodobel

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

I decided to single this part out. I don't think the guard was wrong, your the reason this law was introduced.

I'm not saying the guard was wrong, I know he was correct in doing what he did. I'm just wondering has anyone had a similar experience and what happened them?
As in do they really enforce a €1500 fine and 5 points.

My car has since passed the NCT.

Anan1

scorn wrote: »

I'm sure under the letter of the law that it is an offence to drive without a valid NCT - BUT if you attempted to book an NCT in the last 6 months you'd have been lucky to get an appointment.

This happened with us - we tried to book in a reasonable time ahead, but were told that there were no available slots for months ahead. So what are we supposed to do?

The booking officer told me that once I had the letter confirming a booking date, we'd be ok - not necessarilly within the law, but they have to make concessions when their system is not efficient!

There was never any excuse for driving a car for months without a valid NCT - once a date was booked, it was always easy to get a cancellation within a couple of weeks.

Pasodobel

scorn wrote: »

However, at least the car wasn't 2 years without NCT!

Ya this is gonna be my downfall if I try to argue, I think I'' get a solicitor involved as not to have to answer any sticky questions from the judge!

Pasodobel

so does anyone know if they enforce the max fine/penalty points?

Seth Brundle

@ scorn - About three weeks ago, my father booked is Focus in for the NCT in Dublin (it would have been held today IIRC).
He had to head down to Leitrim overnight last week and decided that he would get the car serviced by a neighbour down there. When he rang, the mechanic said that he would take the car off him and bring on Friday morning and bring it back on Friday evening with the cert (doing it in Carrick on Shannon).
I told my father to ensure that Dublin appointment was cancelled (and also expressed my surprise at the mechanic's confidence in passing).
Anyhow he got the test thankfully (its a 4 year old car so it should have been fine).

Anyhow, my point is that he managed to book one test three weeks after the call and another was booked for one week after the phone call to the NCTS. The OP had absolutely no excuse as it appears that the booking system is back to normal so-to-speak!
It unfortunate that the garda appeared to let the OP off but as they say, thats life!

My advice would be to contact the garda and see what they can do. However, as the DC summons has been issued, it may be too late and the OP may need to put on their sunday best for the judge!

Anan1

Pasodobel wrote: »

so does anyone know if they enforce the max fine/penalty points?

The only person who knows for sure is your judge.;) I think the fact that you can prove you now have a valid NCT will help, though.

Pasodobel

Cheers for all the comments!

Turner

Just bring your booking letter and your new nct cert and hand them to the Garda in front of the Judge (he will ask the Garda to check them)

Dont say anything about having no nct for 2 years. Its up to the prosecution to come up with any information like that.

Then it depends on what side of the bed the Judge got out of.

Hopefully after getting out of bed he saw last years pay cheque on the floor (€300,000) which would put anybody in a good mood for the day!!!

sk8board

OP, what is the expiry date on your NCT?

cause if it was 2 years overdue, then you need to get it done twice, the first time covers until May 09, and then again to cover you to May '11.

I had a similar experience in April when this was introduced, forgot abut my NCT, got it tested, and my new NCT was valid for TWO MONTHs! Had to book it in again and get it done again to cover for a further 2 years. My fault, and 2nd time was a 'walk-through' as it had passed with flying colours the previous week.

Pasodobel

sk8board wrote: »

OP, what is the expiry date on your NCT?

would you believe it is for may 2011, exactly 4 years after my previous NCT had expired. prob a mistake by the NCT crowd.

I'm not complaining.:)

TestTransmission

sk8board wrote: »

OP, what is the expiry date on your NCT?

cause if it was 2 years overdue, then you need to get it done twice, the first time covers until May 09, and then again to cover you to May '11.

I had a similar experience in April when this was introduced, forgot abut my NCT, got it tested, and my new NCT was valid for TWO MONTHs! Had to book it in again and get it done again to cover for a further 2 years. My fault, and 2nd time was a 'walk-through' as it had passed with flying colours the previous week.

I dont think that is the case

Anan1

jackncoke wrote: »

I dont think that is the case

It's not.;)

JHMEG

If you've got a summons it's too late to stop it going to court.

I would say you got the summons because the NCT was overdue by nearly 2 years. If it had been a couple of weeks I would have said you would have gotten away with it.

I would imagine you are nearly 100% guaranteed points and a fine, as it is going to court. Unlikely a solicitor will be anything other than a financial drain, as he/she can't make any arguement in your favour. And some judges don't like solicitors either...

antodeco

I just checked up on my history report of the mini. NCT was due Nov 2004. Has never been done. I had it booked in 3 months ago, but had to cancel 2 weeks previous. Was in again at the end of September but failed. Had to wait 3 weeks to get some of the parts and another 2 for the rest of them. Another 3 weeks to get the mechanic free, so Im driving without a valid NCT (albeit the car is on the road once a month). Ive been stopped at a checkpoint and nothing said. Once I get all the parts replaced, it will be booked back in. Will only be valid for a year though ('04 + 2 + 2 + 2)

scorn

@kbannon - yeah, I'm sure that the backlog has been cleared by now (or at least up to a reasonable point). However, we had one cancellation suggestion from the NCT but we were on holidays at the time it came up so had to decline. Since then, nothing.

My parents also had a similar experience - they spend 8 months of the year abroad, and 4 months here. When they get back here they get thier cars serviced and NCT'd - however, in May the only booking they could get was on a date AFTER they would have already left the country again...

Obviously this was a concern, but they were also assured that if they had proof of the NCT booking they would be ok (i.e. allowed to drive the vehicle on the roads).

So as I said in my original post, it seems to be a grey area - but with the backlog diminishing, I'd say the law would be more strictly enforced now.

douglashyde

OP, Same thing happened to me, got summoned to court... Got a heavy fine and points on my license.

If you honest with the judge and tell him the truth that your NCT has been out of date for two years, he might give you a break.

Take it from me, like I've said, I was in the exact same position.

Pasodobel

douglashyde wrote: »

OP, Same thing happened to me, got summoned to court... Got a heavy fine and points on my license.

If you honest with the judge and tell him the truth that your NCT has been out of date for two years, he might give you a break.

Take it from me, like I've said, I was in the exact same position.

cheers for reply douglashyde.

Out of interest what fine/points did you get? what did the judge say about you having your letter and about passing your NCT?

cheers

Daviator

OP same thing happened to a friend of mine a few weeks ago, they went to court with the new NCT cert and spoke to the Garda in question just before going into court and he said that he would strike it off.

I suppose it depends on the Garda.

Pasodobel

Daviator wrote: »

OP same thing happened to a friend of mine a few weeks ago, they went to court with the new NCT cert and spoke to the Garda in question just before going into court and he said that he would strike it off.

I suppose it depends on the Garda.

that would be sweet alright, fingers crossed anyway but I wont hold my breath!

cheers for the hope anyway!

sk8board

jackncoke wrote: »

I dont think that is the case

I think the diff is that the OP's NCT was already past the 2 years; mine was 21 months into it; hence my NCT cert was issued in March 09 and expired in June 09.
Alls I know is I've done 2 NCT's in 3 months this year.

Esel

Chief--- wrote: »

Dont say anything about having no nct for 2 years. Its up to the prosecution to come up with any information like that.

douglashyde wrote: »

If you honest with the judge and tell him the truth that your NCT has been out of date for two years, he might give you a break.

Two conflicting pieces of advice...... I know whose I would take!

colm_mcm

sk8board wrote: »

OP, what is the expiry date on your NCT?

cause if it was 2 years overdue, then you need to get it done twice, the first time covers until May 09, and then again to cover you to May '11.
.

That's rubbish. The OP only needs one NCT, if he did it tomorrow his cert would cover him to May 2011.

gpjordanf1

Apologies to jump in here, was reading this so I just looked out window to see my NCT was up last month, but I haven't recieved any notification?

Is it my responsibility to book it in for NCT of are they supposed to send me out a reminder that its due?

Confused? Pretty sure they sent it out before? What happens if i'm stopped? Going on holiday Saturday so HAVE to go to Dublin Airport. A bit worried now!

Anan1

gpjordanf1 wrote: »

Apologies to jump in here, was reading this so I just looked out window to see my NCT was up last month, but I haven't recieved any notification?

Is it my responsibility to book it in for NCT of are they supposed to send me out a reminder that its due?

Confused? Pretty sure they sent it out before? What happens if i'm stopped? Going on holiday Saturday so HAVE to go to Dublin Airport. A bit worried now!

It's your responsibility, just book it in now.

Max Power1

gpjordanf1 wrote: »

Apologies to jump in here, was reading this so I just looked out window to see my NCT was up last month, but I haven't recieved any notification?

Is it my responsibility to book it in for NCT of are they supposed to send me out a reminder that its due?

Confused? Pretty sure they sent it out before? What happens if i'm stopped? Going on holiday Saturday so HAVE to go to Dublin Airport. A bit worried now!

AFAIk they used to send out rminder letters but they dont anymore

monkeypants

gpjordanf1 wrote: »

Apologies to jump in here, was reading this so I just looked out window to see my NCT was up last month, but I haven't recieved any notification?

Is it my responsibility to book it in for NCT of are they supposed to send me out a reminder that its due?

Confused? Pretty sure they sent it out before? What happens if i'm stopped? Going on holiday Saturday so HAVE to go to Dublin Airport. A bit worried now!

The responsibility is yours I would imagine. They made a law about it and heaped all the possible penalties on you. Don't trust stuff like this to An Post.

sk8board

colm_mcm wrote: »

That's rubbish. The OP only needs one NCT, if he did it tomorrow his cert would cover him to May 2011.

sory, I think everyone is misunderstanding me; I know (now) that the OP only needs one NCT;
I initially thought OP was saying that his NCT wasn't past the 2 years when he NCT'ed it, but it was.
Mine wasn't past the 2 years, hence when I NCT'ed the car it was only vaild for the remainder of the 2 years. that was all I was saying. we can all move on. :rolleyes:

votejohn

OP you never mentioned getting the actual fine in the post prior to the summons, did you get it? ive had to go to the motor court before and I never got the fine ( well it came, but got misplaced in the house, so didnt get my hands on it until the summons came) I told the judge that I never got the fine and I would have paid it, and he left me off, no points or fine, and ive heard that if you dont get the fine, a lot of the time the judge will throw it out!

monkeypants

There are loads of people who have had cases thrown out simply by claiming that the letter was lost in the post. All you have to do is lie in court.

VolvoMan

A while ago my brother got pulled over for driving with a phone in his hand. The guard took down all his details, looked at his license and then said, "go on, I'll let you off this time". A few weeks later he received a summons in the post, despite the guard saying he would wave the offence.

galwaytt

monkeypants wrote: »

There are loads of people who have had cases thrown out simply by claiming that the letter was lost in the post. All you have to do is lie in court.

you need to keep up do date: the courts recently changed that position, (the subject was sending of Fixed Penalty Notices by post, and claims of non-receipt by those defendants), and precedent has been set that they no longer have to provide proof of receipt by you, only that it has been sent to you.

A whole bunch of people didn't see that coming, and got hammered in court in the Midlands recently..........

unkel

VolvoMan wrote: »

A while ago my brother got pulled over for driving with a phone in his hand. The guard took down all his details, looked at his license and then said, "go on, I'll let you off this time". A few weeks later he received a summons in the post, despite the guard saying he would wave the offence.

That is just plain wrong. The Garda should either just tell you that you are done (and you'll get the fine / points / summons) or that you are let away with it with a warning (at their discretion). A Garda who makes you believe he / she is waiving the offence but goes on with the summons is a coward and a sneaky weasel who brings the standing of the whole force into disrepute

monkeypants

VolvoMan wrote: »

A while ago my brother got pulled over for driving with a phone in his hand.

Is driving with the phone in your hand an offence in itself or do you have to be using it?

Seth Brundle

If you are holding the phone. How can a garda tell if its actually in use?

monkeypants

kbannon wrote: »

If you are holding the phone. How can a garda tell if its actually in use?

Calls made or received. Texts sent or received.

I'm just curious.

Seth Brundle

you can delete those or you could cancel the text that you are sending!
Anyhow, it doesn't matter - that law explicitly states that you cannot hold the phone whilst driving unless you are contacting the emergency services (for an emergency) or you are a member of the emergency services

see http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2006/en/act/pub/0023/sec0003.html#sec3

monkeypants

What about holding a broken phone? Or driving around with a TV remote held to your ear?

JHMEG

galwaytt wrote: »

you need to keep up do date: the courts recently changed that position, (the subject was sending of Fixed Penalty Notices by post, and claims of non-receipt by those defendants), and precedent has been set that they no longer have to provide proof of receipt by you, only that it has been sent to you.

A whole bunch of people didn't see that coming, and got hammered in court in the Midlands recently..........

I'm sure if that was challenged in a superior court it'd fall over. People cannot be convicted on the assumption that An Post are performing their role 100%.

mcguiver

Jebus, the stupidity of posters/drivers never ceases to amaze me.

Anyway, getting back on subject.
Have you bothered to contact the Garda.

Here's the usual scenario from experience. All in order, nct booked, produce your licence to confirm who you are etc, and you wont here from me again.
Anyway, 10 days later Garda checks system and there is nothing on the system saying you produced. Garda goes " well so much for giving him/her a chance, fine/summons sent."

A lot of the time when you do produce your licence etc, it doesnt go on the system straight away. I've put them on, gone back to the counter, here's your licence, thank you. You get caught by the next customer etc, you eventually get back to the computer and someone else has mesed things up...and you have no way of fixing it.

(Proper licences with bar codes/chips etc, but thats another days thread)

Anyway, cops name is on the summons, go find them... I'm guessin it will be a happy ending.

Seth Brundle

monkeypants wrote: »

What about holding a broken phone? Or driving around with a TV remote held to your ear?

Are you just trying to increase your post count?