My outrage at some members of the public service

K-9

Scofflaw wrote: »

Now if only the clerical workers there was difficulty recruiting were the grade that benefited most from benchmarking...

amused,
Scofflaw

Indeed, it was a missed opportunity in that sense. A straight pay cut is unfair in that the people who didn't do well out of benchmarking will suffer more.

irish_bob

thebman wrote: »

I have to say I think its complete wrong to claim public sector positions aren't highly valued.

When I graduated most of the class were talking and saying that they'd love to have a public sector job. One of my mates got a job in there and everyone was congratulating him and telling him how lucky he was. That was 2006. That was a degree in Computer Science.

My brother was looking to leave his job as a technical director at the top of a group of companies to try to get a job in a college as a professor because in his own words, they get crazy money for the level of responsibility they have. That was in 2007. He is still in his technical director role but working until 10PM most nights trying to keep the place going at this stage and sometimes later, all unpaid overtime.

I never understood the everyone said I was crazy to go into public sector people because I've ever heard anybody say that or even imply it in my entire live. I honestly think those people are just making it up to try to sway opinion on here.

union propoganda , public servants were briefed on what slogans and rhetoric to use , they seem well prepared and on message

NO ONE WANTED TO WORK IN THE PUBLIC SECTOR DURING THE BOOM
THE PRIVATE SECTOR CREAMED IT DURING THE BOOM
THE BANKS , THE DEVELOPERS
YOU ONLY BELIVE THAT BECAUSE THE MEDIA TOLD YOU

Gumbo

irish_bob wrote: »

union propoganda , public servants were briefed on what slogans and rhetoric to use , they seem well prepared and on message

i think we can say exactly the same for a few of the PS bashing posters on here too

dresden8

Count Dooku wrote: »

According official report in 2003
http://www.publicjobs.ie/publicjobs/downloads/an_report2003.pdf

- Clerical
Total Number of Applications Received 14,033
Number Interviewed 664
Number Assigned 1,060

14 applicants per position
Even if system refused them on early stage, it doesn’t mean that nobody was interested in those jobs

Next page showed only 6,500 bothered to sit the exams.

In 2002, 4,304 bothered to sit the exams.

In 2004, only 998 applicants bothered to sit the exams, and that was post-benchmarking.

You know this. We've been here before.

K-9

dresden8 wrote: »

Next page showed only 6,500 bothered to sit the exams.

In 2002, 4,304 bothered to sit the exams.

In 2004, only 998 applicants bothered to sit the exams, and that was post-benchmarking.

You know this. We've been here before.

So 400 people got a job with no interview?

BrownianMotion

Posting applicant numbers from 2004 isn't exactly making a compelling argument for leaving public sector pay where it is and making the necessary cuts elsewhere.

Out of interest what's your position on a cut in pay? Presumably if you are against it this isn't part of your justification for exempting the public sector from such a cut?

P. Breathnach

irish_bob wrote: »

union propoganda , public servants were briefed on what slogans and rhetoric to use , they seem well prepared and on message

NO ONE WANTED TO WORK IN THE PUBLIC SECTOR DURING THE BOOM
THE PRIVATE SECTOR CREAMED IT DURING THE BOOM
THE BANKS , THE DEVELOPERS
YOU ONLY BELIVE THAT BECAUSE THE MEDIA TOLD YOU

Who briefed them?

Or are you simply trying to create a myth?

seclachi

kceire wrote: »

i think we can say exactly the same for a few of the PS bashing posters on here too

What does PS mean ? I hate when people post it because I have to try and figure out if they are saying public sector or private sector from context alone.

dresden8

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Who briefed them?

Or are you simply trying to create a myth?

And loudly.

Count Dooku

dresden8 wrote: »

Next page showed only 6,500 bothered to sit the exams.

In 2002, 4,304 bothered to sit the exams.

In 2004, only 998 applicants bothered to sit the exams, and that was post-benchmarking.

You know this. We've been here before.

next page showed that only 6,500 invited on exams.

ParkRunner

Count Dooku wrote: »

next page showed that only 6,500 invited on exams.

Its not that really hard to express an interest in these positions

jimmmy

"union propoganda , public servants were briefed on what slogans and rhetoric to use , they seem well prepared and on message

NO ONE WANTED TO WORK IN THE PUBLIC SECTOR DURING THE BOOM
THE PRIVATE SECTOR CREAMED IT DURING THE BOOM
THE BANKS , THE DEVELOPERS
YOU ONLY BELIVE THAT BECAUSE THE MEDIA TOLD YOU"

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Who briefed them?

God only knows, I am not in a union so do not know, but its fairly obvious when are the union people and supporters shout the same slogans and ideas.

dresden8

jimmmy wrote: »

"union propoganda , public servants were briefed on what slogans and rhetoric to use , they seem well prepared and on message

NO ONE WANTED TO WORK IN THE PUBLIC SECTOR DURING THE BOOM
THE PRIVATE SECTOR CREAMED IT DURING THE BOOM
THE BANKS , THE DEVELOPERS
YOU ONLY BELIVE THAT BECAUSE THE MEDIA TOLD YOU"

God only knows, I am not in a union so do not know, but its fairly obvious when are the union people and supporters shout the same slogans and ideas.

Irony just passed by jimmmy and irish_bob and they never even noticed it.

dresden8

Count Dooku wrote: »

next page showed that only 6,500 invited on exams.

You apply for the post you get "invited" to the exam.

It's not the freemasons you know.

Or are you still banging on about "secret" publicly advertised jobs?

ronbyrne2005

dresden8 wrote: »

Irony just passed by jimmmy and irish_bob and they never even noticed it.

Not really, at least jimmy uses facts to back up his assertions.

irish_bob

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Who briefed them?

Or are you simply trying to create a myth?

listen to any phone in radio show or shows which read out listeners texts , browse the internet , the public sector to the last man and woman are clone like in thier utterances re- the proposed cuts , its uncanny

dresden8

ronbyrne2005 wrote: »

Not really, at least jimmy uses facts to back up his assertions.

Like all the people he knows who tell him about the civil service apartment money?

Those "facts"?

jimmmy

dresden8 wrote: »

Like all the people he knows who tell him about the civil service apartment money?

Those "facts"?

What are you talking about now ? I think you may be confused again

dresden8

dresden8 wrote: »

Like all the people he knows who tell him about the civil service apartment money?

Those "facts"?

jimmmy wrote: »

What are you talking about now ? I think you may be confused again

I still think maybe there is a business in this ...trying to market to people who have high disposable income, after their kids are reared, mortgage paid off etc. Public servants who retire after completion of service with a tax free lemp sum of 18 months salary....mmmmnnn. Another poster who has worked in an auctioneers office revealed that in their experience most people who purchased holiday homes were public servants - specifically teachers. Now that people are not buying property I wonder where does all this windfall tax free lump sum money go ?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=63088092#post63088092

Post 46, but one of your posts where you bang on about this.

Auctioneers revealing secrets of the public service property boom.

A liar has to have a good memory.

OMD

I am looking through pay in public service. Is there a job in the Civil Service that has average basic pay of less than €39,000?

http://www.impact.ie/iopen24/pub/localgovt/reports/lgrep0709.pdf

Count Dooku

dresden8 wrote: »

You apply for the post you get "invited" to the exam.

It's not the freemasons you know.

Even if are you already working within civil service and passed exam few years ago? :rolleyes:

What we know

Number of administrative and clerical staff within public services didn’t change between December 2002 and December 2004 and stayed on 31,500.
http://www.cso.ie/releasespublications/documents/earnings/2004/psempearn_q42004.pdf

We also know that about 342 clerks and administrative workers have retired in 2003. We can assume that it was mostly senior staff.

http://www.cpmr.gov.ie/publications/discussion-papers/ageing-in-the-irish-civil-service-cpmr36-final.pdf/
It means that from 1060 + 373 assignments in 2003, 342 were replacements for retired civil servants, 342 were promotions to replace civil servants, which replaced retired, 342 another level of promotions and finally 342 position were advertised for new entrants.
Big competition within public services I can understand, because it is only chance to be promoted. I can also understand why number of interviews was lower then number of assigned – usually favorite known in advance and there is no reason to disturb people. 1300 assigned for 342 retired is also easy to understand – nobody can jump from bottm to top in one step

Finally
Because all new entrants must pass exam – we have 6,525 for about 300 positions.

Which means that it was 20 candidates from private sector/college per one clerk position in civil services in 2003

Chorcai

I just want to throw this in, awhile ago I did some work for a goverment office, fixing windows.... While there apx 4hrs what went on was nothing short of a laugh if the same carry-on happened at my work place everyone would have been chucked out the door...

Came on site to fix 4 windows, the person who organised was away (later it turned out that she was on her sick day holidays ??) and told no one that we were coming to do this, so we explained what was going to happen and how all this had been arranged. The office busy body was none to impressed that she was out of the loop on all this.

So we started our work, what went on over the few hours was a right laugh, some man walked into the office I was working in at the time rang a mate in Africa to find out if all was ok, like the weather, the fun time he had while there, how the kids/wifes are etc etc Nothing to do with work, the phone call was I'd say about 20mins long but to top it off he keep saying the line was very bad so what he'll do is after he's dinner he'll come back to the office and ring he's mate back. He then pick up a carton of A4 paper and while talking to himself out loud said he's son was doing a school project and need some paper for printing at home... wtf awhole carton ??

Next topic was this meeting that was been held in the office in a few weeks time, I **** you not they talked about what cakes/wine/sambos/etc for over an hour talking about how to make mulled wine or should they have punch, but a festive theme was need but this wasnt like a plan of action meeting just them in the reception area chatting away having a cuppa, later it turned out only 4 extra people where coming to this meeting !!

A broken desk was then reported on and how this wouldn't do for when the big meeting was going to happen. Then it turns out everyone in the office had either crap desks/chairs/phones like sheep they all walked into each others office tuting at what was wrong with what they have... phone calls were made to have all this sorted and how urgent it was. I had a look at the desks there was sweet **** all wrong with them other than they were a bit old, by that I mean 3-4 yrs old. 1 desk was a bit shaky but I'd say all that was need was to tighten a few nuts. I did offer to do that as the woman who was using it clearly was annoyed by it, in steps the busy body stating that there is a company XYZ for all that sort of stuff, I said grand she then went on and on and on about what if the desk fell down after I went at it bla bla bla fair enough.

The busy body who I take was next inline to the person that we had made arrangements came to me asking what time we would be finished for, as on Fridays she finishs early like as if I didnt hear it 10 times already, so she set about appointing someone who would sign off on the work, get copies of this that etc all way OTT stuff and no need for it all.

As we were near done a frosted film had to go on the windows, this is where I nearly lost the will to live. Not only is it hard to apply but really I was made to feel like as if it was my fault that all this had to be done. Not one of them offered to move a desk, a chair or a bin. We had to move the stuff. All the while they stood looking at us like gnomes saying that if they moved the stuff and got hurt how awfull it would be. It wasn't their fault I know and there was a plans have the offices clear. You would think that they would have at least offered to move some stuff. The frosted film had to match up other windows that were done before and really the debate on this was amazing I think ye can gather how it went.

There was alot more but can't recall. Now I know this office (which I wont name) isn't the norm for all goverment offices but really if all this happened in the private sector P45's would be dished out along with paying for boxs of A4 paper plus phone calls to Africa !!!!

In short I want to work for the goverment why wouldn't anyone want to !!!

P. Breathnach

irish_bob wrote: »

listen to any phone in radio show or shows which read out listeners texts , browse the internet , the public sector to the last man and woman are clone like in thier utterances re- the proposed cuts , its uncanny

That's bollocks. I identify with the public service, and I don't agree on everything with others who post here who also identify with the public service.
But there are people here who fail to see that, and who ascribe to me views I do not hold.

There is a conspiracy out there all right: to disparage and discredit everybody and everything to do with the public service. I know who the conspirators are, and I will shortly be reporting in the CT forum: you will become famous.

dresden8

Count Dooku wrote: »

Even if are you already working within civil service and passed exam few years ago? :rolleyes:

Er, yes. You apply for promotions and when the date is set for the exam you are "invited" to attend. What part of that is hard to understand?

dresden8

Count Dooku wrote: »

What we know

What you think you know.

jimmmy

OMD wrote: »

I am looking through pay in public service. Is there a job in the Civil Service that has average basic pay of less than €39,000?

http://www.impact.ie/iopen24/pub/localgovt/reports/lgrep0709.pdf

Do not forget all the many many allowances eg if you are a keyholder of a public building you get an extra 20 euro a week for the extra responsibility etc etc.

jimmmy

P. Breathnach wrote: »

There is a conspiracy out there all right: to disparage and discredit everybody and everything to do with the public service. I know who the conspirators are

The whole world is conspiring against the poor, overworked, underpaid Irish public service and their retirees. Awww

jimmmy

Chorcai wrote: »

I just want to throw this in, awhile ago I did some work for a goverment office, fixing windows.... While there apx 4hrs what went on was nothing short of a laugh if the same carry-on happened at my work place everyone would have been chucked out the door...

Came on site to fix 4 windows, the person who organised was away (later it turned out that she was on her sick day holidays ??) and told no one that we were coming to do this, so we explained what was going to happen and how all this had been arranged. The office busy body was none to impressed that she was out of the loop on all this.

So we started our work, what went on over the few hours was a right laugh, some man walked into the office I was working in at the time rang a mate in Africa to find out if all was ok, like the weather, the fun time he had while there, how the kids/wifes are etc etc Nothing to do with work, the phone call was I'd say about 20mins long but to top it off he keep saying the line was very bad so what he'll do is after he's dinner he'll come back to the office and ring he's mate back. He then pick up a carton of A4 paper and while talking to himself out loud said he's son was doing a school project and need some paper for printing at home... wtf awhole carton ??

Next topic was this meeting that was been held in the office in a few weeks time, I **** you not they talked about what cakes/wine/sambos/etc for over an hour talking about how to make mulled wine or should they have punch, but a festive theme was need but this wasnt like a plan of action meeting just them in the reception area chatting away having a cuppa, later it turned out only 4 extra people where coming to this meeting !!

A broken desk was then reported on and how this wouldn't do for when the big meeting was going to happen. Then it turns out everyone in the office had either crap desks/chairs/phones like sheep they all walked into each others office tuting at what was wrong with what they have... phone calls were made to have all this sorted and how urgent it was. I had a look at the desks there was sweet **** all wrong with them other than they were a bit old, by that I mean 3-4 yrs old. 1 desk was a bit shaky but I'd say all that was need was to tighten a few nuts. I did offer to do that as the woman who was using it clearly was annoyed by it, in steps the busy body stating that there is a company XYZ for all that sort of stuff, I said grand she then went on and on and on about what if the desk fell down after I went at it bla bla bla fair enough.

The busy body who I take was next inline to the person that we had made arrangements came to me asking what time we would be finished for, as on Fridays she finishs early like as if I didnt hear it 10 times already, so she set about appointing someone who would sign off on the work, get copies of this that etc all way OTT stuff and no need for it all.

As we were near done a frosted film had to go on the windows, this is where I nearly lost the will to live. Not only is it hard to apply but really I was made to feel like as if it was my fault that all this had to be done. Not one of them offered to move a desk, a chair or a bin. We had to move the stuff. All the while they stood looking at us like gnomes saying that if they moved the stuff and got hurt how awfull it would be. It wasn't their fault I know and there was a plans have the offices clear. You would think that they would have at least offered to move some stuff. The frosted film had to match up other windows that were done before and really the debate on this was amazing I think ye can gather how it went.

There was alot more but can't recall. Now I know this office (which I wont name) isn't the norm for all goverment offices but really if all this happened in the private sector P45's would be dished out along with paying for boxs of A4 paper plus phone calls to Africa !!!!

In short I want to work for the goverment why wouldn't anyone want to !!!

Thanks for telling your story. I think everyone in the country has a brother, sister, cousin, friend, neighbour , clubmate or whoever who actually works in the public service and who can and does tell similar stories.

gerry28

Chorcai wrote: »

I just want to throw this in, awhile ago I did some work for a goverment office, fixing windows.... While there apx 4hrs what went on was nothing short of a laugh if the same carry-on happened at my work place everyone would have been chucked out the door...

Came on site to fix 4 windows, the person who organised was away (later it turned out that she was on her sick day holidays ??) and told no one that we were coming to do this, so we explained what was going to happen and how all this had been arranged. The office busy body was none to impressed that she was out of the loop on all this.

So we started our work, what went on over the few hours was a right laugh, some man walked into the office I was working in at the time rang a mate in Africa to find out if all was ok, like the weather, the fun time he had while there, how the kids/wifes are etc etc Nothing to do with work, the phone call was I'd say about 20mins long but to top it off he keep saying the line was very bad so what he'll do is after he's dinner he'll come back to the office and ring he's mate back. He then pick up a carton of A4 paper and while talking to himself out loud said he's son was doing a school project and need some paper for printing at home... wtf awhole carton ??

Next topic was this meeting that was been held in the office in a few weeks time, I **** you not they talked about what cakes/wine/sambos/etc for over an hour talking about how to make mulled wine or should they have punch, but a festive theme was need but this wasnt like a plan of action meeting just them in the reception area chatting away having a cuppa, later it turned out only 4 extra people where coming to this meeting !!

A broken desk was then reported on and how this wouldn't do for when the big meeting was going to happen. Then it turns out everyone in the office had either crap desks/chairs/phones like sheep they all walked into each others office tuting at what was wrong with what they have... phone calls were made to have all this sorted and how urgent it was. I had a look at the desks there was sweet **** all wrong with them other than they were a bit old, by that I mean 3-4 yrs old. 1 desk was a bit shaky but I'd say all that was need was to tighten a few nuts. I did offer to do that as the woman who was using it clearly was annoyed by it, in steps the busy body stating that there is a company XYZ for all that sort of stuff, I said grand she then went on and on and on about what if the desk fell down after I went at it bla bla bla fair enough.

The busy body who I take was next inline to the person that we had made arrangements came to me asking what time we would be finished for, as on Fridays she finishs early like as if I didnt hear it 10 times already, so she set about appointing someone who would sign off on the work, get copies of this that etc all way OTT stuff and no need for it all.

As we were near done a frosted film had to go on the windows, this is where I nearly lost the will to live. Not only is it hard to apply but really I was made to feel like as if it was my fault that all this had to be done. Not one of them offered to move a desk, a chair or a bin. We had to move the stuff. All the while they stood looking at us like gnomes saying that if they moved the stuff and got hurt how awfull it would be. It wasn't their fault I know and there was a plans have the offices clear. You would think that they would have at least offered to move some stuff. The frosted film had to match up other windows that were done before and really the debate on this was amazing I think ye can gather how it went.

There was alot more but can't recall. Now I know this office (which I wont name) isn't the norm for all goverment offices but really if all this happened in the private sector P45's would be dished out along with paying for boxs of A4 paper plus phone calls to Africa !!!!

In short I want to work for the goverment why wouldn't anyone want to !!!

This is a very depressing read but does not surprise me at all. Management know who works in the PS and who doesn't. Some people spend more of their energy arguing about what work they should not have to do than actually working.

I would love to see a day of reckoning in the PS and CS. A ruthless clear out of the dossers and the lazy.

But of course it will not happen and those who work will continue gain no advantage over those that don't.... in terms of money and promotion opportunities - sadly.

Count Dooku

dresden8 wrote: »

Er, yes. You apply for promotions and when the date is set for the exam you are "invited" to attend. What part of that is hard to understand?

Are you sure?
I remember that CPSU was demanding exclude current civil servants from exams in 2001