My outrage at some members of the public service

parsi

efb wrote: »

The IT Systems work in the HSE? Do you think were all SAPs...

I think ye're all ERPs...

As a customer of the HSE my experience is that the individual systems work. The problem with PPARS was that IT conceit that somehow one system can be built to run them all...and that as we know is doomed to failure everywhere.

ROS123

parsi wrote: »

Probably a bad example tbh. Finance and HR departments in every organisation are hidebound due to the innate nature of the work and the need to be able to justify every action at any time.

The discussion on frontline is interesting. It's a great buzzword and can mean different things to different folk.

Some folk say it's the fireman who is frontline. What about the mechanic who services the tenders and ensures that the equipment works ? What about the stores clerk who issues the parts and orders new ones ? What about the finance clerk who pays for the parts, the equipment, the training courses ? What about the salaries guy who ensures the fireman gets paid his correct pay and overtime ? What about the Fire Officer who inspects buildings and on whose head any liability claims will fail ? What about the Chief Fire Officer who has to fight for and allocate his resources ?

Some folk say it's the nurse who is frontline. What about the receptionist who will be the first person to meet the agressive drunk or the tearful/worried parents ? What about the phlebotimist who'll draw the drunks blood ? What about the radiologist who'll take and read the x-ray? What about the porter who'll wheel the drunk to x-ray and get a beating for his trouble ? What about the maintenance guy who replaces the bulbs so they can see ? What about the salaries clerk who does the payroll for the 143 grades ? What about the supplies clerk who ensures that the frontline nurse doesn't have to go down to Fannins to buy a cannula ? What about the IT manager who has to ensure that the systems work ?

Thanks parsi, like I said earlier its all about divide and conquer, where will it end. Who decides what is frontline, it depends on where you are coming from.

groovy 09

ROS123 wrote: »

Thanks parsi, like I said earlier its all about divide and conquer, where will it end. Who decides what is frontline, it depends on where you are coming from.

Bottom line Ireland has an inefficient public sector which is over resourced and draining the economy. Make the cuts that are necessary and start getting the country on its feet.

mallet head

ROS123 wrote: »

Thanks parsi, like I said earlier its all about divide and conquer, where will it end. Who decides what is frontline, it depends on where you are coming from.

Divide is correct. What sort of a society do we have when people on 50 grand a year are threatening strike while others are relying on SVP for food handouts and are suicidal over mortgage arrears and spiralling debt through no fault of there own.

irish_bob

parsi wrote: »

Probably a bad example tbh. Finance and HR departments in every organisation are hidebound due to the innate nature of the work and the need to be able to justify every action at any time.

The discussion on frontline is interesting. It's a great buzzword and can mean different things to different folk.

Some folk say it's the fireman who is frontline. What about the mechanic who services the tenders and ensures that the equipment works ? What about the stores clerk who issues the parts and orders new ones ? What about the finance clerk who pays for the parts, the equipment, the training courses ? What about the salaries guy who ensures the fireman gets paid his correct pay and overtime ? What about the Fire Officer who inspects buildings and on whose head any liability claims will fail ? What about the Chief Fire Officer who has to fight for and allocate his resources ?

Some folk say it's the nurse who is frontline. What about the receptionist who will be the first person to meet the agressive drunk or the tearful/worried parents ? What about the phlebotimist who'll draw the drunks blood ? What about the radiologist who'll take and read the x-ray? What about the porter who'll wheel the drunk to x-ray and get a beating for his trouble ? What about the maintenance guy who replaces the bulbs so they can see ? What about the salaries clerk who does the payroll for the 143 grades ? What about the supplies clerk who ensures that the frontline nurse doesn't have to go down to Fannins to buy a cannula ? What about the IT manager who has to ensure that the systems work ?

the mechanic who keeps the fire engine on the road , the receptionist who is the 1st to meet the obnoxious smack head in accident and emergency , the supplies clerk who keeps the nurses in the tools of her trade , none of theese people or what thier jobs entail , pull at the heartstrings of the public , none of those people are sacred cows like nurses , the frontline alliance is designed to not only push a certain section of the public sector forward so as to protect that patch , it is designed to play on peoples emotions as guards , nurses and fireman are seen as essential to keeping people safe , it is in my view a thoroughly distastefull act of cynicism on the part of the so called FRONTLINE

RMDrive

gerry28 wrote: »

I think we can be fairly certain now that pay will be cut in the budget on wed - I just hope is it weighted fairly.

I am interested to see what will be the next major talking point after the budget as PS paycuts will take a back seat.

I really hope that those who have been calling for paycuts and proclaiming that its in the interests of the country take up the next big elephant in the room - social welfare fraud.

Much of the argument and heated discussion over the past 6 months was for savings of 1.3 million of the public service paybill. If primetime investigates are to be believed then there is anything up to 2 billion being lost to abuse of the social welfare system.

And while were at it we might even begin to lay a bit of pressure on our superrich and ask them to consider paying their taxes in the country they like to call home (when it suits them).

And a reasonable 3rd rate of tax could be considered too.

:eek: Do you work for Primetime?? Those exact words used ....

Paulzx

irish_bob wrote: »

sacred cows like nurses ,

Why do you have to use that phrase in every second post? Same oul sh*te in post after post. Just the same as your dogma spouting pal Jimmmy.

You have no interest in debate but want to keep ranting on with the same phrases irrespective of what people reply.

Maybe you have a fetish for bovines?:D

ROS123

One more idea on what people consider frontline; Nurses, how many nurses actullay work on the so called front line ? I certainly sympathise with those that actually do, there are so low a percentage that they are mostly overworked. The majority of nurses work in mgmt and advisory positions with care assistants and wards maids doing most of the actual 'front line' work. When people give out about middle management in the HSE and its agencies, how many nurses are at middle to senior mangement who never get their hands dirty. Are they still front line staff ?

Yes I work in the PS, I do believe that we can take another reduction in take home pay, the second in 2 years, but only at the higher grades, graduated upwards.

P. Breathnach

ROS123 wrote: »

... Yes I work in the PS, I do believe that we can take another reduction in take home pay, the second in 2 years, but only at the higher grades, graduated upwards.

Who is this "we" of whom you speak? Are you at a higher grade, or am I correct in reading your post to mean that you want somebody else to take the hit?

jimmmy

Paulzx wrote: »

Just the same as your dogma spouting pal Jimmmy.

I think you should go for the ball, not the player.

Riskymove

jimmmy wrote: »

I think you should go for the ball, not the player.

touché

welcome home....:pac:

sysconp1

Frontline could be defined as:

Those providing emergency services/assistance to the public 24/7/365.

If other areas of the public services would give the dedication the current Garda, Fire service, Ambulance service and nurses give, then I am sure that they would receive the same support from the private sector.

But when the public get jobs-worths and whingers from the back office public service then the sympathy and support will be a long time coming from anyone outside of the PS.

Perhaps a touch of reality, such as a realisation that they are not in a job for life may start the ball rolling?

Just for the record, I am private sector and I was made redundant 10 weeks ago and I still have no sign of my social welfare. The guys in my old business had to take a 10% pay cut and 10 days of mandatory unpaid leave per year and the levey that every one else got. No salary rises or bonuses for the next year at least. They accept it as a fact of life as the good times are over and it will require some hardship to turn things around.

So anyone that is considering strike action over the cuts, just remember you won't be paid for your strike days and you risk harder and harder cuts as we ALL move through these hard times.

I am sure I am not the only one with this type of story and I am sure that there are many others with harder tales to tell. So wake up to reality you don't have anyones support but your own and that is how it will stay for a long time unless you change your views on the world.

murphaph

irish_bob wrote: »

the mechanic who keeps the fire engine on the road , the receptionist who is the 1st to meet the obnoxious smack head in accident and emergency , the supplies clerk who keeps the nurses in the tools of her trade , none of theese people or what thier jobs entail , pull at the heartstrings of the public , none of those people are sacred cows like nurses , the frontline alliance is designed to not only push a certain section of the public sector forward so as to protect that patch , it is designed to play on peoples emotions as guards , nurses and fireman are seen as essential to keeping people safe , it is in my view a thoroughly distastefull act of cynicism on the part of the so called FRONTLINE

Spot on bob. I personally beleive that absolutely nobody in the PS is underpaid for the work they do. I believe also that some frontline staff are way overpaid for what they do compared to neighbouring countries (whith healthier balance sheets than us!). Prices are falling, let's keep them falling by cutting wages to Eurozone averages at least and let's get Ireland competitive again.

Drumpot

Can anybody work this one out ?

A nurse text into Pat Kenny complaining that she will of lost over €700 per month (did I get that right?) after tomorrows paycut takes affect !! !

What must she be on to take that much of a cut per month ?! !?! At least 75k in my estimation . .

Ive barely earned over a third of that after 10 years in the private sector! My heart bleeds for her . . .

Drumpot

irish_bob wrote: »

the mechanic who keeps the fire engine on the road , the receptionist who is the 1st to meet the obnoxious smack head in accident and emergency , the supplies clerk who keeps the nurses in the tools of her trade , none of theese people or what thier jobs entail , pull at the heartstrings of the public , none of those people are sacred cows like nurses , the frontline alliance is designed to not only push a certain section of the public sector forward so as to protect that patch , it is designed to play on peoples emotions as guards , nurses and fireman are seen as essential to keeping people safe , it is in my view a thoroughly distastefull act of cynicism on the part of the so called FRONTLINE

+1

I call it the moral stick that people love to verbally bash anybody who questions the unions ethics, arguements or "bad" intentions . .

Riskymove

Drumpot wrote: »

Can anybody work this one out ?

A nurse text into Pat Kenny complaining that she will of lost over €700 per month (did I get that right?) after tomorrows paycut takes affect !! !

What must she be on to take that much of a cut per month ?! !?! At least 75k in my estimation . .

Ive barely earned over a third of that after 10 years in the private sector! My heart bleeds for her . . .

maybe she means she will have lost that after BOTH the pension levy and tomorrow's cut?

LordDorington

Drumpot wrote: »

Can anybody work this one out ?

A nurse text into Pat Kenny complaining that she will of lost over €700 per month (did I get that right?) after tomorrows paycut takes affect !! !

What must she be on to take that much of a cut per month ?! !?! At least 75k in my estimation . .

Ive barely earned over a third of that after 10 years in the private sector! My heart bleeds for her . . .

Oh yeah I have heard that before! We were at a family party and one of our relatives was complainig about being "down 800 per month" and we were all like oh you poor pet...so of that 800 is a PERCENTAGE then what are you actually on?! We did a crude estimation afterwards and she is certainly not short of a few bob!

ei.sdraob

Riskymove wrote: »

maybe she means she will have lost that after BOTH the pension levy and tomorrow's cut?

whats she complaining about? at least she has a job

didnt they show yesterday before primetime that there are 1900 new nurses who cant get a job due to freezes in hiring?

Riskymove

ei.sdraob wrote: »

whats she complaining about? at least she has a job

didnt they show yesterday before primetime that there are 1900 new nurses who cant get a job due to freezes in hiring?

ah yes....respond to a question by putting forward a possible answer..

...que people jumping onto the thread with the usual rethoric

perhaps you might update the material though, "at least you/he/she has a job" is getting a bit old

Drumpot

Riskymove wrote: »

maybe she means she will have lost that after BOTH the pension levy and tomorrow's cut?

Lorddorington was making my point for me . . She must be on around 75k and has a job . . How can there be so many people that really dont know what the recession is about ?

She was complaining about her salary dropping . Do these people not understand that there are people who cannot afford to maintain even the most basic lifestyle and then they have to listen to this kind of self centred pity . . Makes me sick to be honest .

I called into my local TD yesterday (love having the chats with them). Just asked them straight out about the public v private. They said the public service are way overpaid (in general), the politicians even more so and that the average wage in Public service of €980 is far too much. It was refreshing to hear it from a T.D. . Whether they do anything about it is another thing, at least they are aware of the hypocracy of the public service unions protests . .

LordDorington

Riskymove wrote: »

maybe she means she will have lost that after BOTH the pension levy and tomorrow's cut?

God love her being asked to actually give something towards her pension. They really should be for free. Nothing about the other 88% of course that everyone else is expected to make up. Spoilt children if you ask me, demanding that mum and dad give them the over inflated pocket money they've always enjoyed, and now stomping their feet cause mom and dad cant afford it. Do the words "blood" and "stone" mean anything in this context.

Incidentally is it true that the proposed 12 days "unpaid" leave were actually going to be compensated a few years down the line?

sysconp1

murphaph wrote: »

Spot on bob. I personally beleive that absolutely nobody in the PS is underpaid for the work they do. I believe also that some frontline staff are way overpaid for what they do compared to neighbouring countries (whith healthier balance sheets than us!). Prices are falling, let's keep them falling by cutting wages to Eurozone averages at least and let's get Ireland competitive again.

I fully agree.... during the good times salaries went up, then it should have been expected that during the bad times they would come down. Perhaps not to the same levels of the rest of europe, but certainly in line with other business areas both public and private. If the IMF have to handle the situation over here then everyone can expect massive job losses as well as large salary cuts to bring everyone in line with the rest of europe and put Ireland back on track. Take the little pain now and hopefully it will not get any worse.

LordDorington

Drumpot wrote: »

Lorddorington was making my point for me . . She must be on around 75k and has a job . . How can there be so many people that really dont know what the recession is about ?

She was complaining about her salary dropping . Do these people not understand that there are people who cannot afford to maintain even the most basic lifestyle and then they have to listen to this kind of self centred pity . . Makes me sick to be honest .

I called into my local TD yesterday (love having the chats with them). Just asked them straight out about the public v private. They said the public service are way overpaid (in general), the politicians even more so and that the average wage in Public service of €980 is far too much. It was refreshing to hear it from a T.D. . Whether they do anything about it is another thing, at least they are aware of the hypocracy of the public service unions protests . .

980 a week? One can only dream....

ei.sdraob

Riskymove wrote: »

ah yes....respond to a question by putting forward a possible answer..

...que people jumping onto the thread with the usual rethoric

perhaps you might update the material though, "at least you/he/she has a job" is getting a bit old

not at all

thats a basic point that people in the PS dont understand (once yee get this point you might have a chance )

and thats how employment in the real world works, were you get rewarded for better performance, where if times get tough you either take a cut or find somewhere else to work

not the bubblewrapped world that some in the PS live in

sysconp1

Riskymove wrote: »

ah yes....respond to a question by putting forward a possible answer..

...que people jumping onto the thread with the usual rethoric

perhaps you might update the material though, "at least you/he/she has a job" is getting a bit old

It's not getting old... it's getting real, so get used to it!

LordDorington

sysconp1 wrote: »

I fully agree.... during the good times salaries went up, then it should have been expected that during the bad times they would come down. Perhaps not to the same levels of the rest of europe, but certainly in line with other business areas both public and private. If the IMF have to handle the situation over here then everyone can expect massive job losses as well as large salary cuts to bring everyone in line with the rest of europe and put Ireland back on track. Take the little pain now and hopefully it will not get any worse.

We should also remember that benchmarking was brought in to raise public sector pay to the level of private. Now that private sector workers are being asked to take cuts then why not the public?

Drumpot

LordDorington wrote: »

God love her being asked to actually give something towards her pension. They really should be for free. Nothing about the other 88% of course that everyone else is expected to make up. Spoilt children if you ask me, demanding that mum and dad give them the over inflated pocket money they've always enjoyed, and now stomping their feet cause mom and dad cant afford it. Do the words "blood" and "stone" mean anything in this context.

Now thats a proper analogy . . .

Riskymove

LordDorington wrote: »

God love her being asked to actually give something towards her pension. They really should be for free. Nothing about the other 88% of course that everyone else is expected to make up

you have very little grasp about how the public pensions works

Spoilt children if you ask me, demanding that mum and dad give them the over inflated pocket money they've always enjoyed, and now stomping their feet cause mom and dad cant afford it. Do the words "blood" and "stone" mean anything in this context.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Incidentally is it true that the proposed 12 days "unpaid" leave were actually going to be compensated a few years down the line?

oh i am sure you can come up with a great, balanced, non-conspiratorial view on wht you mean by that...

sysconp1

Riskymove wrote: »

you have very little grasp about how the public pensions works



zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz



oh i am sure you can come up with a great, balanced, non-conspiratorial view on wht you mean by that...

You wouldn't happen to be one of the PS workers would you?

That would explain how you have so much time to write on here!!:rolleyes:

Riskymove

LordDorington wrote: »

980 a week? One can only dream....

you dont think anyone in the private sector makes €50k??