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My outrage at some members of the public service

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    #422
    LordDorington
    Closed Accounts Posts: 313 ✭✭LordDorington


    Riskymove wrote: »
    yes and thats very unfortunate

    why should that make it any less worrying for the person in question


    It makes it harder to listen to whinging and moaning doesnt it? If an employer decides to cut his staffs wages (as has happened to people I know) those staff cant go out in protest and hold the country to ransom can they? No, they just get on with it.


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    #423
    mountaintop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 50 ✭✭mountaintop


    Maybe I'm missing something. But didn't the ESB get a salary increase of 5%? How come there is no mention of that?


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    #424
    Lothaar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 473 ✭✭Lothaar


    My wife works in the Public Sector, I in the Private Sector.

    Between Jan and March 2009, I took two rounds of pay-cuts, amounting to a 17% reduction in my salary. I worked an average of 55 hours a week for the first six months of the year, picking up the slack for people who had been let go. Since the summer, it's been more like 45 hours (thankfully!).

    The impact of the pension levy on my wife's pay amounts to about 3% (I believe the average impact was 6/7%). She works a 32.5 hour week, not a minute more. If she wants a few more quid, she works a short overtime shift and makes a killing.

    We are both considered to be good at our jobs and hold equivalent qualifications.

    Even though it benefits our family, we can both see how ridiculous the disparity between public and private sector is.

    I really hope the government cuts pay across the public sector to balance the books. The argument that 'the public sectors has already taken a pay-cut' is so blinkered. Sure, the pension levy amounts to a pay-cut, but it's not actually that much of a cut. Working conditions are still excellent.

    If there is a strike I will be extremely peeved. If the government then crumble and succumb, I will go completely mental! The cuts have to come from somewhere - if not the public sector wage, then the private sector is going to take even more pain, making the disparity even bigger.


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    #425
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,888 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    sysconp1 wrote: »
    But if you over committed on your job for life salary then who's fault is it? I know at least 4 couples in the PS where that is the case and their comments are much like yours. Howeverthink of all the private sector people that have exactly the same issue and they don't go running to everyone crying, they take it on the chin. After all what else can they do?

    of course they have a repsonsibility in it but your portrayal of the situation is unreal.....if you cant make ends meet its a terrible situation regardless of whether you are private or public sector

    there is a focus on public pay at the moment which is bringing these comments out but to suggest that private sector people dont express worries or concerns??

    you obviously dont listen to the media when soemthing like waterford crystal etc happens


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    #426
    irish_bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,271 ✭✭✭irish_bob


    Paulzx wrote: »
    Why do you have to use that phrase in every second post? Same oul sh*te in post after post. Just the same as your dogma spouting pal Jimmmy.

    You have no interest in debate but want to keep ranting on with the same phrases irrespective of what people reply.

    Maybe you have a fetish for bovines?:D

    well i was born on a farm , not a sheep farm BTW :D


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    #427
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,888 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    LordDorington wrote: »
    It makes it harder to listen to whinging and moaning doesnt it? If an employer decides to cut his staffs wages (as has happened to people I know) those staff cant go out in protest and hold the country to ransom can they? No, they just get on with it.

    it depends doesnt it on the organisation in question

    there have been protests at private sector organisations over the last year or two

    and as above, if you dont think people caught up in such situations express their concerns and fears (or whinge as you charitably put it) you are wrong


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    #428
    LordDorington
    Closed Accounts Posts: 313 ✭✭LordDorington


    Riskymove wrote: »
    it depends doesnt it on the organisation in question

    there have been protests at private sector organisations over the last year or two

    and as above, if you dont think people caught up in such situations express their concerns and fears (or whinge as you charitably put it) you are wrong

    You expect people to be charitable when private sector workers are losing jobs left right and centre?? And yes I would say "whinge" call a spade a spade and all that.

    Certainly no private sector strike has ever impacted upon the state and the economy as much as public sector shopping striking..


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    #429
    irish_bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,271 ✭✭✭irish_bob


    murphaph wrote: »
    Spot on bob. I personally beleive that absolutely nobody in the PS is underpaid for the work they do. I believe also that some frontline staff are way overpaid for what they do compared to neighbouring countries (whith healthier balance sheets than us!). Prices are falling, let's keep them falling by cutting wages to Eurozone averages at least and let's get Ireland competitive again.

    i dont have the link right now but david mc williams wrote and artilce in the sunday business post proposing a BIG BANG approach where we reduce wages by 25% in both sectors in one foul swoop so as to quickly jump start reinvestment and restore our competivness , this would of course be risky but it might be just what the doctor ordererd


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    #430
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,888 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    Drumpot wrote: »
    riskymove . . .

    I assumed you were a public servant ? My apologies if I am wrong . .

    I am a public servant
    I am just saying that when a public servant says to me they wont discuss their job guarantee or their guaranteed pension (or will discuss it, with little reason to offer up why it shouldnt be a factor when discussing paycuts), it only serves to make me (and hundreds of thousands) feel like they dont want to accept that this is a hugely important privalege in this current economic climate .. .

    well i have no problem with discussing either job security or pensions


    but I understand how people get frustrated over it as plenty of things are ignored when it suits the argument....such as that both have already been taken into account with regards to pay

    Quoting who took what job and who didnt want to take public service jobs Etc etc etc (and I have personal experience that this is not completely true) really doesnt amount to anything other then sidestepping the main issue with schoolyard jostling.

    of course it is, but theres plenty of that crap on all sides
    Personally, I dont believe an 11% paycut in the current climate is actually that drastic. Im not saying it doesnt impact on peoples lives, im saying if this is the worst economic crisis this country has ever had, then an 11% cut is in that regard, not that bad , if you keep your job. . Thats the perception and HARSH REALITY that anybody whos lost their job or is worried about losing their job, has to contend with daily.

    I fully understand that, and fully expect pay cuts


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    #431
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,888 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    LordDorington wrote: »
    Certainly no private sector strike has ever impacted upon the state and the economy as much as public sector shopping striking..

    what impact did it have on the economy?


    you obviously dont recall the general strikes in 1970s and 1980s


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    #432
    LordDorington
    Closed Accounts Posts: 313 ✭✭LordDorington


    Riskymove wrote: »
    what impact did it have on the economy?


    you obviously dont recall the general strikes in 1970s and 1980s

    Well given that I am the ripe old age of 26. Apologies for not being a more current affairs aware foetus.


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    #433
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,888 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    LordDorington wrote: »
    Well given that I am the ripe old age of 26. Apologies for not being a more current affairs aware foetus.

    well i am not that much older (ish)

    but I am aware of what went on then


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    #434
    sysconp1
    Registered Users Posts: 397 ✭✭sysconp1


    At least the NI economy did well out of the last PS strike ;-)


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    #435
    Drumpot
    Registered Users Posts: 19,306 ✭✭✭✭Drumpot


    irish_bob wrote: »
    i dont have the link right now but david mc williams wrote and artilce in the sunday business post proposing a BIG BANG approach where we reduce wages by 25% in both sectors in one foul swoop so as to quickly jump start reinvestment and restore our competivness , this would of course be risky but it might be just what the doctor ordererd

    He must of gotten that idea from me . . . . :D

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=60035932&postcount=1


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    #436
    LordDorington
    Closed Accounts Posts: 313 ✭✭LordDorington


    Riskymove wrote: »
    well i am not that much older (ish)

    but I am aware of what went on then

    well done. Sorry but being born in 83 I do not "recall" anything from the 70's :D Your "ish" must be very generous ;)


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    #437
    Rookster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 331 ✭✭Rookster


    What I find ironic in the whole debate is that the Public Service are on huge salaries, pensions and perks and yet anything they are in charge of does'nt work properly.

    Health Service
    Planning Corruption
    Garda Corruption
    ESB
    Social Welfare Fraud
    Trains and Buses
    Financial regulator
    Politics
    etc,etc,etc.....................

    The list is just too long.


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    #438
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,888 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    LordDorington wrote: »
    well done. Sorry but being born in 83 I do not "recall" anything from the 70's :D Your "ish" must be very generous ;)

    you have no awareness of anything that happened before 1983??

    you should check out "Reeling in the years" so:pac:


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    #439
    Drumpot
    Registered Users Posts: 19,306 ✭✭✭✭Drumpot


    Riskymove wrote: »
    you have no awareness of anything that happened before 1983??

    you should check out "Reeling in the years" so:pac:

    Only show thats worth anything in the €160 licence fee . . Love it . .


  • Options
    #440
    LordDorington
    Closed Accounts Posts: 313 ✭✭LordDorington


    Riskymove wrote: »
    you have no awareness of anything that happened before 1983??

    you should check out "Reeling in the years" so:pac:

    You can stop splitting hairs now. I know what you are doing.


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    #441
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,888 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    LordDorington wrote: »
    You can stop splitting hairs now. I know what you are doing.

    jeez, sorry for attempting some humour


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    #442
    LordDorington
    Closed Accounts Posts: 313 ✭✭LordDorington


    Riskymove wrote: »
    jeez, sorry for attempting some humour

    Sorr but I dont think your post was funny, and indeed I doubt it was intended to be.


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    #443
    ardmacha
    Registered Users Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    i dont have the link right now but david mc williams wrote and artilce in the sunday business post proposing a BIG BANG approach where we reduce wages by 25% in both sectors in one foul swoop so as to quickly jump start reinvestment and restore our competivness , this would of course be risky but it might be just what the doctor ordererd

    He must of gotten that idea from me . . . .

    Whether its was Drumpot or David McWilliams this is not entirely feasible, the government can just cut PS salaries, regardless of the consequences (and they will be half way there by tomorrow). But the private sector gougers in non traded sectors will not cut their charges.


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    #444
    ardmacha
    Registered Users Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    What I find ironic in the whole debate is that the Private sector are on huge salaries, pensions and perks and yet things don't work properly.

    the worst Internet in Europe
    shoddy construction
    banking corruption
    Eircom
    dodgy builders
    shady car dealers
    adulterated food
    self serving boards of directors
    etc,etc,etc.....................

    The list is just too long.


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    #445
    opinion guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    sysconp1 wrote: »
    I feel that the back office staff should stop using the frontline staff to justify their ridiculous demands and get ready for the IMF removing a good proportion of their jobs to streamline the public service once and for all. The frontline staff should setup their own union and seperate once and for all from the useless back office whingers.
    sysconp1 wrote: »
    Defence of a system that is fundamentally flawed is a mistake. Hopefully Cowen will be forced to allow the IMF in and then the unions won't have a chance to defend a corrupt and over priced system.

    Myth 1 - the IMF coming in. Seriously do people honestly think this ? Heard a radio interview with IMF official the other day who said that they weren't remotely worried about having to intervene in Ireland that we had loads of money. And they are right we got 54billion to give to the banks. So where did this whole idea come from then ? Hmmm could it be that FF wanted a big scary threat to make us swallow the bitter NAMA pill ???




    sysconp1 wrote: »
    They do... but they earn it

    And are measured on their performance before getting rises and the like
    LordDorington wrote: »
    Of course they do, but they do so by rising up through ranks and being dedicated and hard working, or else working hard in school and college to secure well paid professions.
    They certainly do not get such salaries without earning them.
    sysconp1 wrote: »
    Agreed, however there is much less tolerance for poor performance in the private sector. But those companies that do retain poor performers do not succeed that well.


    Myth 2 - Lazy inefficient workers don't exist in the private sector. By a wide, wide margin the laziest, most badly run, organisations I've worked for have been private sector. Specifically one of the Banks which seemed to have a proactive policy of promoting inefficiency....interesting that huh ?


    sysconp1 wrote: »

    Perhaps a touch of reality, such as a realisation that they are not in a job for life may start the ball rolling?

    Myth 3 - public sector workers are all in jobs for life. Yes some are. But many aren't. Examples: 120 special needs teaching jobs - gone. Teachers aids - gone. Countless staff in health service on temp contracts - gone. Physio's, occupational health, nursing. Most if not all NCHD's are on temporary contracts and some of those jobs have gone (very quietly).
    ALL of these job losses are so called "frontline" and have direct effect on patients, school children
    I really hope the government cuts pay across the public sector to balance the books. The argument that 'the public sectors has already taken a pay-cut' is so blinkered. Sure, the pension levy amounts to a pay-cut, but it's not actually that much of a cut. Working conditions are still excellent.

    Myth 4 - I don't know what area of public service your wife works in, but I can assure you working conditions are not excellent in general in public service. I've said this before - I've worked both public and private sector. My experience is that some of the conditions of public sector workers woudl not be accepted in private sector.


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    #446
    LordDorington
    Closed Accounts Posts: 313 ✭✭LordDorington


    ardmacha wrote: »
    Whether its was Drumpot or David McWilliams this is not entirely feasible, the government can just cut PS salaries, regardless of the consequences (and they will be half way there by tomorrow). But the private sector gougers in non traded sectors will not cut their charges.

    Doubt it, they have all but pledged all out war if the cuts go ahead. The government are spineless. They will crumble.


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    #447
    Dr Galen
    Registered Users Posts: 7,373 ✭✭✭Dr Galen


    ah come off it Ardmacha, did you not get the memo about the Private Sector being the beacon of shining hope? You know the one where it was shown that the private sector does no wrong and that all things evil can be traced back to the public service.

    dude, there's no point in arguning for a balanced view here anymore. Blinkers have been handed out (to all sides!) and they've been superglued on.


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    #448
    LordDorington
    Closed Accounts Posts: 313 ✭✭LordDorington


    ardmacha wrote: »
    What I find ironic in the whole debate is that the Private sector are on huge salaries, pensions and perks and yet things don't work properly.

    the worst Internet in Europe
    shoddy construction
    banking corruption
    Eircom
    dodgy builders
    shady car dealers
    adulterated food
    self serving boards of directors
    etc,etc,etc.....................


    The list is just too long.

    Wow you're right this list DOES include all private sector workers! :rolleyes:


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    #449
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    Rookster wrote: »
    What I find ironic in the whole debate is that the Public Service are on huge salaries, pensions and perks and yet anything they are in charge of does'nt work properly.

    Health Service
    Planning Corruption
    Garda Corruption
    ESB
    Social Welfare Fraud
    Trains and Buses
    Financial regulator
    Politics
    etc,etc,etc.....................

    The list is just too long.

    ESB is not in the public sector....


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    #450
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    ardmacha wrote: »
    adulterated food

    :confused: whats adulterated food?


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    #451
    LordDorington
    Closed Accounts Posts: 313 ✭✭LordDorington


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    :confused: whats adulterated food?

    I think its food that has slept with other, married food :)


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