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My outrage at some members of the public service
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CityCentreMan wrote: »I think that we are all agreed that, in the interests of fairness, the cuts should take place elsewhere and that someone else should pay!
Here . . Enough of this bickering, give me the bill, I will take care of this one . .
Do you take EC Credit Cards ? ? ?
They agreed to let me spend €500mil a week for up to 5 years . . . . . You dont even have to worry about it until 2014, when you can payback the capital + Interest . .
The longer you leave it the more you pay by increased interest (compounded interest, reduced credit rating, coupled with lowest interest rates currently that will rise).
Hey hey, no need to be part of the recession. Just relax, continue as normal and everything will work itself out . .. Just get rid of FF as soon as possible, and vote in whoever hates them the most (like a person on the rebound) and hey presto . . Your country is back on track . .
100% Guaranteed to work if you leave your head in the sand . Warning : You should look for a particularly deep sandpit post 2014 . .
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opinion guy wrote: »No no you misunderstand. The IMF person seemed incredulous that we woudl think we needed their help and there was no question of them being called in regardless of cuts. She said we had loads of money (relative to the places they do get called in to. Its a white elephant. Always was. Spin.
This is in danger of being seen as a wise as comment, but. The delays are because of workload. The public sector workers who have lost their jobs face the same delays. Bringing in pay cuts and job cust will actually make this take longer.
Lets also say this - there are cuts already happening in the public sector. I spoke to a doctor friend the other day who told me his take home pay was 50% down on last year despite going up a grade on the ladder. How? Why ? Because the HSE/hospitals are NOT honouring contracts in full. They are refusing to pay staff for all hours worked etc etc etc. Just because you haven't heard about it on the news doesn't mean it isn't happening. This also illustrates the blatant disregard the HSE/governmernt has for employment contracts - something that woulnd't be allowed happen in the private sector without legal repercussions.
To be honest I'm tired of this public vs private 'debate'. People need to wise up and realise the real problem is the deficient leadership of the country. Lets make a point here - there are people in the public sector doing well, there are people in the private sector doing well, there are people in the public sector doing poorly, there are people in the private sector doing poorly. Blanket cuts in the public sector will NOT NOT NOT help any of those in the private sector who have done badly. In fact it will degrade their public services upon which they are now more dependent. If you buy into this public vs private stuff you are only helping the government screw everyone over AGAIN.
The ONLY equitable approach to dealing with this issue is to raise income taxes on those who are high earners REGARDLESS of public vs private.
Here's the problem with that, as I see it. The rise in tax in April resulted in the government taking in less revenue than they would have had they not raised taxes, which would imply taxes are at the point of diminishing returns- If you raise income taxes on entrepreneurs and people who have worked hard and took the risk involved in investing and making a successful company then theyll have less revenue to pay their staff with, so theyll hire fewer people or sack current staff, etc.
- I really doubt there are enough people in the country who earn "fat cat" salaries, but at the same time wouldnt pack up and move abroad if income tax was raised to bridge the deficit.
- If you tax the rich even more than they currently are taxed (I think top 4% of earners in this country pay 49% of the governments tax revenue, then the top 10% pay around 75-80%, in fairness to them) theyll just take their money and leave the country to go to other places where they wont be taxed so much and the economy will lose all of that money.
Wages and salaries need to come down to make us competitive to attract foreign direct investment and multi-national companies which our country relies on extremely heavily given the lack of major indigenous Irish exporters we have (actually, right now off the top of my head I cant think of any major Irish exports outside of agriculture). That catn happen though if one section of the workforce is still being paid the same rate of pay as they were during Celtic Tiger years.
I definitely favour reducing government spending than trying to tax our way out of this recession/depression like we tried in the 1980's, but personally would actually gladly pay more tax out of my salary (26k a year with no overtime payments, no bonuses of any kind and 20 days holiday a year ) if it meant sorting out our economy now and over the next few years. And if my employer told me tomorrow Id have to take a paycut of whatever scale Id accept it knowing I was lucky to only get a paycut rather than being made unemployed and get on with work, or else Id quit and find a new job where I believe my skills and qualifications would earn a greater salary. But then again I know, like most others, jobs are extremely few and far between out there. I really dont want to go around lying to myself and pretending its all grand and "the IMF wont touch us" and "the EU will bail us out sooner or later" and so on, just we can eventually have another "Tallaght Strategy" and feel sorry for ourselves because nobody warned us it was coming.0 - If you raise income taxes on entrepreneurs and people who have worked hard and took the risk involved in investing and making a successful company then theyll have less revenue to pay their staff with, so theyll hire fewer people or sack current staff, etc.
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P. Breathnach wrote: »You said that you would be entering the public sector in two years. I don't think anybody can be sure of getting a position in two years' time.
Ah I see. I'm positive, theres always subbing and tempory work 0 -
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Tim Robbins wrote: »And what makes you think more than 2% of the private sector made a killing from the property boom?
You don't like how the public sector works - move to the private sector!
100% of the public sector made a killing out of the property boom 0 -
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Well by and large the entrepreneurs and business owners are not as affected by income tax rates as as they are employers they get to do things like have a company car, feed their profits back into company etc.Here's the problem with that, as I see it. The rise in tax in April resulted in the government taking in less revenue than they would have had they not raised taxes, which would imply taxes are at the point of diminishing returns- If you raise income taxes on entrepreneurs and people who have worked hard and took the risk involved in investing and making a successful company then theyll have less revenue to pay their staff with, so theyll hire fewer people or sack current staff, etc.
- I really doubt there are enough people in the country who earn "fat cat" salaries, but at the same time wouldnt pack up and move abroad if income tax was raised to bridge the deficit.
- If you tax the rich even more than they currently are taxed (I think top 4% of earners in this country pay 49% of the governments tax revenue, then the top 10% pay around 75-80%, in fairness to them) theyll just take their money and leave the country to go to other places where they wont be taxed so much and the economy will lose all of that money.
Where did you get those figures from ? I seriously doubt 10% make up that much of the tax revenue.
I actually disagree. That ship has LONG sailed. Ten years ago companies were packing up to go cheaper places. We CANNOT compete in the mass manufacturing markets. What we need to do is innovate. We should be encouraging new industries instead of looking abroad for investement - in case you didn't here there is recession abroad too - they don't have money to invest like before. We should be developing new energy technologies, new recycling technologies, new medical technologies and then we shoudl be exporting that skill and expertise at a premium. The country that cracks this stuff first will be at the head of the next boom - mark my words. We have the engineering skill, we have the scientists, we have the talent. We need some leadership with the vision to see this.Wages and salaries need to come down to make us competitive to attract foreign direct investment and multi-national companies which our country relies on extremely heavily given the lack of major indigenous Irish exporters we have (actually, right now off the top of my head I cant think of any major Irish exports outside of agriculture). That catn happen though if one section of the workforce is still being paid the same rate of pay as they were during Celtic Tiger years.
But I digress...I definitely favour reducing government spending than trying to tax our way out of this recession/depression like we tried in the 1980's, but personally would actually gladly pay more tax out of my salary (26k a year with no overtime payments, no bonuses of any kind and 20 days holiday a year ) if it meant sorting out our economy now and over the next few years. And if my employer told me tomorrow Id have to take a paycut of whatever scale Id accept it knowing I was lucky to only get a paycut rather than being made unemployed and get on with work, or else Id quit and find a new job where I believe my skills and qualifications would earn a greater salary. But then again I know, like most others, jobs are extremely few and far between out there. I really dont want to go around lying to myself and pretending its all grand and "the IMF wont touch us" and "the EU will bail us out sooner or later" and so on, just we can eventually have another "Tallaght Strategy" and feel sorry for ourselves because nobody warned us it was coming.
I agree with cutting government spending. But there are smart ways and dumb ways to do that. A pretty dumb way if the force blanket wages cuts, cut services and enforce unpaid leave. PEOPLE WILL DIE. Smarter ways would be to cut inefficiencies in the services. I actually think there shoudl be job cuts in the public service, but targeted ones in overstaffed areas such as HSE management. But I also think there should be new hirings in frontline healthcare services for example. Its not that something doesn't have to be done. Its that it has to be done intelligently. But that's too hard for Fianna Fail it would seem - again we need leadership with vision and we haven't gotten it.Careful now . . You dont want to suggest that Ireland has become a nation full of self absorbed vested interest groups ! ! !:p
The Irish "community" spirit left our country when the values of the church were replaced with the value of the Euro . .
Are you f**king KIDDING ME ? Would this be the community spirit that:
a) fostered systematic abuse
or
b) covered up said abuse
or
c) ran forced labour camps as "laundries" or "factory schools"
or
d) sent children to Australis never to be heard from again.
If those are the values of the church you can keep them frankly.ive rarely come across threads on internet forums or storys in the media about how dangerous the job of a nurse or a guard or a fireman is in ireland untill the whole issue of pay cuts came to the fore , frankly , i believe the whole thing is a ploy by the so called FRONTLINE to try and garner sympathy among the general public as a way of persuading the goverment not to cut wages to nurses , guards or firemen
Seriously ? Are you seriously saying this or is this trolling ? Do you honestly think being a fireman is safe ? Do you think guards don't face physical violence on a regular basis ? Do you think hospital work is safe ? Physical violence from patients, relatives, constant exposure to disease and blood products - does that sound safe. Next friday night take a trip to St James' A & E and see how "safe" it is. They don't make noise about this normally because they are getting on with their work and not looking for medals for doing it. They get loud about it at times like this because they are being financially assaulted by the government, and verbally assaulted by ignorant media and ignorant web forum posters for doing their job in appalling circumstances, circumstances I'd wager you wouldn't be prepared to work in.100% of the public sector made a killing out of the property boom
More trolling ?0 -
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Just on the "poor" plublic sector, etc.
Even the lowest salary is a nice salary.
http://www.tui.ie/Salary_Scales/Default.286.html#Common
Before tax and that's before over time, bonus, etc., for the lowest wage, what's so wrong with those wages.
http://www.cso.ie/quicktables/GetQui...lProduct=DB_PS
Private sector doesn't get this wages, have to pay for their own pensions, don't get to claim full wages while sick for in some cases years, don't have job security.
Plus when people get 5% raise or so they make jokes like, "oh how should i invest this huge raise" but when they lose the same amount, its "how am i going to pay my mortgage", so is % good or bad?
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