My outrage at some members of the public service

deen

noodler wrote: »

Now, I am only going to ask a few questions out of pure curiosity - try not to go all wrathful on me.

As a retained Firefighter, how often afre you called out per week?

Do you have another job? (Probably a personal question but I only ask for the sake of the financial arguments that are raging in the thread).

Now the biggie, without sounding like a total bastard (because I don't actually know), how often are firefighters in this country killed in fires? Is there any figures available? As I said I am not disputing the inherent dangers of entering a burning building but some people work in shops etc in crappy areas where they get held up, threatened etc regularly.

I don't know if it is possible to ask the last paragraph there without somebody going mad but lets see.

No fear of me going wrathful on you, the point of my posts is the waste of time and energy such a reaction would be. If I didn't like your questions then I don't have to answer them. Why would I come back on and get Wrathful, it would only wind you up which in turn would wind me up etc. and you still wouldn't have the answer to your questions so neither of us would be any better off.

1. Can't say how many times a week we are called out, could be weeks without a call, could get 4 calls in the one day. Would be lovely to be able to organise it that we knew when we were going to be called, would save all the hanging around the town just in case. But again hey I knew that when I signed up.

2. Yes I have another job, I'm self employed, doing OK but things are tough at the moment as you know. Again I knew that when I went down the self employed route.

3. I think 3 firefighters have died in the last 2 years before that there hadn't been a death at an incident in years afaik. Thats 3 too many but as I said it can be a dangerous job at times but again I knew that when I joined up.

Make what you will of my answers, I'm a self employed Public Sector worker so I know the argument from both sides. I just don't see the point of both sides having a go at each other its not going to solve anything.

Flex

opinion guy wrote: »

Where did you get those figures from ? I seriously doubt 10% make up that much of the tax revenue.

I had read something along those lines on the forum a while ago, however youre correct, my memory was wrong. I googled it as quickly as I could (as Im on a lunch break at the moment :cool: ) and found a report from 2007 saying that the tax revenue paid by the tope 10% is a bit over 60%

"The record proves that. In 1997, the top 10% of income earners paid 50% of the total income tax take. This year (2007), that share will be almost 60%."

http://www.finance.gov.ie/Viewtxt.asp?DocID=4594&StartDate=1+January+2009

Im afraid I dont have time to reply to the rest of your post, but when Im home later Ill find a more recent source and address the other points.

opinion guy

thebman wrote: »

Well money was pured into health during good times, what did they spend it on other than consultant wages?

Beats me. Amdinistrators perhaps ? That's a good point on consultant wages thou. They've bee an awfuly quiet bunch since getting their new contracts. They've also wasted a load on contract staff when refusing to make people permanent. EDIT: I forgot. The HSE has thee highest marketing budget in the country

murphaph wrote: »

I guess when you spend all the money on having the best paid nurses and doctors in Europe there's not much left for IT.

My best mate here is an English doctor. Can't believe the salaries Irish medical staff receive. His words "That's vulgar money".

The base salaries for NCHD's range from €35k for an intern to €85k for a grade 7 senior registrar (i.e. someone with at least 10 years+ experience and higher qualifications). On top of that they get over time and various allowances.

So ask your mate about the working conditions in Ireland. Ask him how vulgar that is. Fact is many doctors would readily accept pay cuts if their working conditions were improved. Fact is the high wages were/are the only thing keeping many of them here since training, career progression and the chance of a permanent job are all barely existant here and degrading steadily.

If you don't believe me then the Irish Times wrote and article about it:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/1128/1224259620164.html
From the doctor interviewed in the article:

“I’m going to be earning less in Australia, but it’s more the atmosphere and having a system that is adequately staffed and resourced and where you are not made to feel you are expected to compress all of your work into a shorter timeframe,” he says.

“In the beginning I was looking at going for 12 months but now I do not want to come back to a system that is in chaos and where you feel like you are under attack for doing your job.”

professore wrote: »

This graph ends the conversation. Obviously the Public Sector are paid too much as a group. This also doesn't show the massive unpaid or poorly paid overtime, less holidays, no special bonus top-ups, etc that the private sector have to endure. AND this is 2007 - most private sector employees positions are considerably worse now relative to public sector even with the pension levy.

I ahve already addressed this graph just yesterday. Please read the thread before declaring it is over. This graph shows average wages in each sector. Those public sectors include both the low paid low workers and overpaid management. Blanket cuts are NOT appropriate. Look here if you want to educate yourself on the discrepancies in wages within the public sector:
http://www.dohc.ie/publications/pdf/salary_scales_sept2008.pdf


Edit: I'm really getting sick of posting links to real info and people not reading it and then posting some grand statement ignorant of the facts. This is a complicated problem. Continuing to address it in a lazy simplistic manner, like it seems our government would do, will only end in chaos


Edit 2: I see the British are talking about a once off 50% tax on banking bonus's. Great idea. Punish the people responsible for the problems

noodler

P. Breathnach wrote: »

You knew that what you said was highly questionable. It doesn't take twisting or reading it out of context to justify challenging it.

None of my questions were questionable pal, thats all they were.

deen wrote: »

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No fear of me going wrathful on you, the point of my posts is the waste of time and energy such a reaction would be. If I didn't like your questions then I don't have to answer them. Why would I come back on and get Wrathful, it would only wind you up which in turn would wind me up etc. and you still wouldn't have the answer to your questions so neither of us would be any better off.

1. Can't say how many times a week we are called out, could be weeks without a call, could get 4 calls in the one day. Would be lovely to be able to organise it that we knew when we were going to be called, would save all the hanging around the town just in case. But again hey I knew that when I signed up.

2. Yes I have another job, I'm self employed, doing OK but things are tough at the moment as you know. Again I knew that when I went down the self employed route.

3. I think 3 firefighters have died in the last 2 years before that there hadn't been a death at an incident in years afaik. Thats 3 too many but as I said it can be a dangerous job at times but again I knew that when I joined up.

Make what you will of my answers, I'm a self employed Public Sector worker so I know the argument from both sides. I just don't see the point of both sides having a go at each other its not going to solve anything.

Thanks for the reply.

kadafi006

_Kooli_ wrote: »

Oh dear. Another thread from someone too sore that they couldnt make a career for themselves that would pay a decent wage, so they want anyone on a decent wage to have a cut.
In the private sector you can make way more than €50k .... if you take an interest in developing your career. tbh anyone in the private sector earning less than €50k has not looked after their career at all.
Stop crying over what others get and sort yourself out.

One of the guys i work with has got a pay cut recently and was off on a rant about the public sector. We chose to give him a pay cut because he is crap. Nobody else will be getting one.

Thats a load of generalized bull****. The OP made a valid point. Firemen are grossly overpaid.

tudlytops

kadafi006 wrote: »

Thats a load of generalized bull****. The OP made a valid point. Firemen are grossly overpaid.

We had a fire last Xmas on the 20/12, have the picture to prof it, and where the fire man good.

Not only did they saved the pets, they knew just what would somehow make it easier for me, what to do and say.

They risk their life's for us, even for our pets, no amount of money can repay for that, what price can you put on a life.

paraletic

Drawing Dead wrote: »

i saw my friends' pay slip.
he's a fireman, and he's been one for just over 3 years, he's set to earn just under 50,000 euro this year.
he was marching last week, protesting against a cut to his pay.
i know people will say firemen do a dangerous job and save lives and they deserve that pay but this is the real world and peoples wages are structured on the amount of qualifications, training and experience you have, and the responsibility bestowed upon you. to put this into context my brother is a civil engineer and has been working in the industry for just over 3 years, same as my fireman friend. he works for one of the biggest civil engineering companies in the country and his work involves being in charge of very large building sites. he is currently being paid about 38,000 euro, he has just taken a 6% pay cut and is working 55hours a week
.

I am sorry i only saw this post tonight

1st- your friend is probably a trained fire fighter and paramedic. you mentioned qualifications, if he really is a friend he might tell you how much training there is and which university gave him his diploma (as hse paramedic i got mine from ucd school of medicine)

2nd you talk about responsability..... your friend literally has huge responsabilities. he's responsible for peoples life/health!!!

3rd to put it into context I too worked for one of the largest civil engineering companies in ireland as an engineer. and worked 55 hrs throughout my time there (they are normal hours for a civil engineer) and i took a huge cut to join the ambulance service.

You should visit the emergency services forum to get some info on ambulance/fire service training, qualifications, etc or visit a fire/ambu station before you decide what we do.