All-Island team

tolosenc

I'm sure this has been done to death here, but myself and a friend from Belfast were talking about this. It works for rugby, why not soccer.

We could go from 2 semi-decent sides, to a team which should qualify for most tournaments. It would provided much needed depth, which both sides lack. Team could play in Windsor, Lansdowne, Thomond, even Croker if that's still on the cards.

Further, the re-unification of the FAI and the IFA would also be beneficial. An all-Island league would allow for a higher standard of domestic football, as weaker teams in the eircom League could be replaces by the stronger teams from the North, or vice-versa.

What would your reactions be?

redout

This has been done to death on here before.

Maybe 3 North players max.

Would never happen. Windsor is dominated by loyalists.

Headshot

northern Ireland do have some good youngsters coming through

Mikeyt086

---

Given
O'Shea-Evans-Dunne-McCartney

What a back 5!!!

Rondolfus

Headshot wrote: »

northern Ireland do have some good youngsters coming through

Hopefully they opt to play for us instead

Headshot

Rondolfus wrote: »

Hopefully they opt to play for us instead

is it until they hit the senior squad they can opt to play for us ?

_blank_

Firstly, I do think that an All-Island league, with merged associations, is a good idea.

But comparisons with Rugby are wide of the mark, for various reasons.

Everyone knows that Soccer is extremely tribal, unlike Rugby.

Toulousain wrote: »

Further, the re-unification of the FAI and the IFA would also be beneficial.

The "suits" wouldn't have it.

Also, the island would lose half it's UEFA Competition places, that's not something the teams will want to give up easily, as it keeps many teams above the breadline (Bohemians for a very good, relevant and recent example)

Toulousain wrote: »

An all-Island league would allow for a higher standard of domestic football, as weaker teams in the eircom League could be replaces by the stronger teams from the North, or vice-versa.

Erm, I don't know what this means, the standard of football in the IL is, if anything, lower than it is in the LoI.

Happy Monday

In rugby Leinster and Munster are two of the top teams in Europe.
Ulster can always provide 2-3 useful players as well.
So that's one hell of a strong base to work from.

In soccer, there is a distinct lack of quality in Irish players operating at the highest level in Europe from either side of the border.
In England's largest 4 sides how many Irish - 1 - O'Shea.
IMO more players from the North will not improve this situation.

Qualifying for World Cups is a lot harder now than 20 or 30 years ago.
We now need to defeat Italy or France to get there - the teams that contested the last final!
In 1990, all we needed to do was finish ahead of Hungary into 2nd place.
NI qualified from joke groups in the 1980s.

I think Irish football at this level - along with Scottish and Welsh football - is facing a long wait to compete in World Cups.

keane2097

Happy Monday wrote: »

In soccer, there is a distinct lack of quality in Irish players operating at the highest level in Europe from either side of the border.
In England's largest 4 sides how many Irish - 1 - O'Shea.
IMO more players from the North will not improve this situation..

LOL Johnny-Evans-aments

Happy Monday

keane2097 wrote: »

LOL Johnny-Evans-aments

Regulars would be closer to zero.

shane86

Here is why not:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland_rugby#Flags_and_anthems

Due to the above watered down loyalist pandering the rugby team means nothing to me. I might care about the team if I could garner an ounce of national pride in it. Ive tried, several times, and I cant. If one in five Ireland fans dont like the Irish national anthem, maybe they should set up their own team. Similarly I couldnt give a swinging sh1t about watching an Ireland soccer team that tacitly disapproved of tricolour waving and played makey up anthems away from home. The Scots and the Welsh would never sell out, why should we?

elshambo

Toulousain wrote: »

I'm sure this has been done to death here, but myself and a friend from Belfast were talking about this. It works for rugby, why not soccer.

We could go from 2 semi-decent sides, to a team which should qualify for most tournaments. It would provided much needed depth, which both sides lack. Team could play in Windsor, Lansdowne, Thomond, even Croker if that's still on the cards.

Further, the re-unification of the FAI and the IFA would also be beneficial. An all-Island league would allow for a higher standard of domestic football, as weaker teams in the eircom League could be replaces by the stronger teams from the North, or vice-versa.

What would your reactions be?

NO!

baalthor

Des wrote: »

Firstly, I do think that an All-Island league, with merged associations, is a good idea.

But comparisons with Rugby are wide of the mark, for various reasons.

Everyone knows that Soccer is extremely tribal, unlike Rugby.


The "suits" wouldn't have it.

Also, the island would lose half it's UEFA Competition places, that's not something the teams will want to give up easily, as it keeps many teams above the breadline (Bohemians for a very good, relevant and recent example)



Erm, I don't know what this means, the standard of football in the IL is, if anything, lower than it is in the LoI.

Also, if the NI team disappeared other countries would logically question the existence of separate teams for England, Scotland and Wales.
And NI would probably have to give up its seat on the committee that governs the rules for World Football.
Yes, the mighty soccer nation of NI permanently has one of the 8 seats on this committee. I read this on Wikipedia so it must be true...

In a saner world, there would be a British team and an Irish team (with British and Irish Leagues) with people from NI choosing which team to play for just like in the Olympics.

loyatemu

ignoring the political issues I'd rather see an all-Ireland team and an all-Ireland league, but this:

Toulousain wrote: »

We could go from 2 semi-decent sides, to a team which should qualify for most tournaments.

is patently nonsense - unifying 2 mediocre teams does not make a good side. We'd still only have a population base of 6 million or so, plenty of bigger countries with viable domestic leagues do not qualify for "most" tournaments.

Fr Tod Umptious

shane86 wrote: »

Here is why not:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland_rugby#Flags_and_anthems

Due to the above watered down loyalist pandering the rugby team means nothing to me. I might care about the team if I could garner an ounce of national pride in it. Ive tried, several times, and I cant. If one in five Ireland fans dont like the Irish national anthem, maybe they should set up their own team. Similarly I couldnt give a swinging sh1t about watching an Ireland soccer team that tacitly disapproved of tricolour waving and played makey up anthems away from home. The Scots and the Welsh would never sell out, why should we?

Well said

baalthor wrote: »

Also, if the NI team disappeared other countries would logically question the existence of separate teams for England, Scotland and Wales.
And NI would probably have to give up its seat on the committee that governs the rules for World Football.
Yes, the mighty soccer nation of NI permanently has one of the 8 seats on this committee. I read this on Wikipedia so it must be true...

In a saner world, there would be a British team and an Irish team (with British and Irish Leagues) with people from NI choosing which team to play for just like in the Olympics.

Ah, I don't think it would be the NI team (or NI Association , IFA) that would disappear.

The IFA is the original football association for this island, the FAI are a breakaway group, they, the FAI, should be the ones to disappear after any merger

pablomakaveli

shane86 wrote: »

Here is why not:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland_rugby#Flags_and_anthems

Due to the above watered down loyalist pandering the rugby team means nothing to me. I might care about the team if I could garner an ounce of national pride in it. Ive tried, several times, and I cant. If one in five Ireland fans dont like the Irish national anthem, maybe they should set up their own team. Similarly I couldnt give a swinging sh1t about watching an Ireland soccer team that tacitly disapproved of tricolour waving and played makey up anthems away from home. The Scots and the Welsh would never sell out, why should we?

My sentiments as well. Theres no real benefit to merging to two teams anyway. If we did it would be seem it was only being done for the sake of it.

It'd would make little difference to our fortunes in the long term.

Deedsie

I would love to see it, but it would mean a change of Anthem/flag etc.

An all Ireland league is the first step. That could get a great following. Would be real bite in some of the fixtures.

The border in the next few decades is going to distinguish not divide the people North and South.

An All Island Football side at present is fanciful.

Johnny Utah

Terrible idea. Do we really want to see the Union Jack flying in Croke Park?

BraziliaNZ

I wouldn't want ROI anywhere near the bubbling cauldron of sectarian bile that is Belfast's Windsor Park. We should all bring shovels to the border and keep digging until it breaks off and floats away...

Keano

Never going to happen. A loyalist march couldn't even down O'Connell St so imagine attempting to merge 2 teams! Unfortunately, politics will always play a huge issue.

kerash

Johnny Utah wrote: »

Terrible idea. Do we really want to see the Union Jack flying in Croke Park?

Croker? Landsdown? Might as well, we've had the provincial flag, St. Georges Cross and God save the queen...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQ6-bYixpYE

and it may be rugby but the passion there is fantastic - we watch The Republic line up and half of them don't sing Amhrán na bhfiann anyway.

premierstone

kerash wrote: »

we watch The Republic line up and half of them don't sing Amhrán na bhfiann anyway.

You either need to stop exaggerating or you need to work on your fractions young man

kerash

premierstone wrote: »

You either need to stop exaggerating or you need to work on your fractions young man*

Lol
Exaggeration I'll admit, a few dont sing.

*wrong;)

Johnny Utah

kerash wrote: »

Croker? Landsdown? Might as well, we've had the provincial flag, St. Georges Cross and God save the queen...


and it may be rugby but the passion there is fantastic - we watch The Republic line up and half of them don't sing Amhrán na bhfiann anyway.

I meant that there may be some Union Jacks displayed by a certain section of the 'Irish' supporters themselves if this venture of an all-Ireland team were ever to happen :eek::D

ADTR

shane86 wrote: »

Here is why not:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland_rugby#Flags_and_anthems

Due to the above watered down loyalist pandering the rugby team means nothing to me. I might care about the team if I could garner an ounce of national pride in it. Ive tried, several times, and I cant. If one in five Ireland fans dont like the Irish national anthem, maybe they should set up their own team. Similarly I couldnt give a swinging sh1t about watching an Ireland soccer team that tacitly disapproved of tricolour waving and played makey up anthems away from home. The Scots and the Welsh would never sell out, why should we?

Feel the same way.

Dub13

Happy Monday wrote: »

I think Irish football at this level - along with Scottish and Welsh football - is facing a long wait to compete in World Cups.

In world cups yes it may be a while but the European Championship is been expanded so no more play offs the top 2 teams will qualify.We came second in this world cup group so in the new Euro format would would be in.

FatherTed

It will never happen for political reasons but more importantly, the blazers would have more competition for the few precious spots on the board.

Pisco Sour

I real an article from a few years back and it analysed how strong Ireland would have been in 1982 had we had an All Ireland team. With the amount of great players they had then (not a million miles from making the Semi Finals of the 1982 World Cup) and the many great players we had at that time (and were EXTREMELY unlucky not to make the finals ourselves), a combination of both teams would in theory have made us one of the favourites to win the title.

Sounds odd, but certainly something to think about.

anonymous_joe

Why can we have an all-island rugby team and not a football team?

Why does sectarian prejudice impact upon one sport more than the other?

population

Y'know I would have always said this was a non-starter for obvious reasons, but there is a woman that my wife works with (sports mad!) who is a Prodestant from the North and considers herself British.

It is something she is quiet proud of and all but oddly enough she fully supports an all Ireland team like the rugby and according to her all her friends are of the same opinion. Wales and Scotland have a team, so why divide Irelands? It is not for one minute that she is trying to say the south is British, but simply that the Loyalist idiocy and hatred is more fringe-like than we might give it credit for. She reckons the majority of decent Prodestants in the North would eventually support the idea.

Brewster

population wrote: »

Y'know I would have always said this was a non-starter for obvious reasons, but there is a woman that my wife works with (sports mad!) who is a Prodestant from the North and considers herself British.

It is something she is quiet proud of and all but oddly enough she fully supports an all Ireland team like the rugby and according to her all her friends are of the same opinion. Wales and Scotland have a team, so why divide Irelands? It is not for one minute that she is trying to say the south is British, but simply that the Loyalist idiocy and hatred is more fringe-like than we might give it credit for. She reckons the majority of decent Prodestants in the North would eventually support the idea.

The word would be Protestant!
There is no reason why we couldn't have an all Ireland soccer team and I would encourage it. It works very for both hockey and rugby. People in the south would have to change their attitudes every bit as much as some folk in Northern Ireland would.... Believe me, all the sectarian problems on this island do not lie North of border as some people would have you believe... I am a big rugby fan, and the support the Ulstermen have given the Irish team over the years has been immense.

I actually think an all Ireland soccer team would be pretty decent if you combined both squads.....

anonymous_joe

population wrote: »

Y'know I would have always said this was a non-starter for obvious reasons, but there is a woman that my wife works with (sports mad!) who is a Prodestant from the North and considers herself British.

It is something she is quiet proud of and all but oddly enough she fully supports an all Ireland team like the rugby and according to her all her friends are of the same opinion. Wales and Scotland have a team, so why divide Irelands? It is not for one minute that she is trying to say the south is British, but simply that the Loyalist idiocy and hatred is more fringe-like than we might give it credit for. She reckons the majority of decent Prodestants in the North would eventually support the idea.

The thing about the rugby team though, is that both communities have found a middle-ground.

Ireland's Call may have unified Protestant and Catholic in their loathing of it, but it's a sign that the team does not just represent Catholic nationalist Irish people.

A unified 32 county Ireland would include a lot of loyalist Protestants. Some gesture needs to be made to them that you won't just ignore them.

Keep in mind that Windsor Park is infamous down here for being sectarian, but I can remember matches where Irish crowds booed guys for playing for Rangers. Including the memorable occassion Landsdowne Road turned its ire on Peter Madsen then of Brondby iirc, because they thought he was Peter Lovenkrands of Rangers.

Brewster wrote: »

The word would be Protestant!
There is no reason why we couldn't have an all Ireland soccer team and I would encourage it. It works very for both hockey and rugby. People in the south would have to change their attitudes every bit as much as some folk in Northern Ireland would.... Believe me, all the sectarian problems on this island do not lie North of border as some people would have you believe... I am a big rugby fan, and the support the Ulstermen have given the Irish team over the years has been immense.

I actually think an all Ireland soccer team would be pretty decent if you combined both squads.....

It would be a decent squad. And better than either of the current too teams. Johnny Evans alone'd justify it. :pac:

Brewster

anonymous_joe wrote: »

The thing about the rugby team though, is that both communities have found a middle-ground.

Ireland's Call may have unified Protestant and Catholic in their loathing of it, but it's a sign that the team does not just represent Catholic nationalist Irish people.

A unified 32 county Ireland would include a lot of loyalist Protestants. Some gesture needs to be made to them that you won't just ignore them.

Keep in mind that Windsor Park is infamous down here for being sectarian, but I can remember matches where Irish crowds booed guys for playing for Rangers. Including the memorable occassion Landsdowne Road turned its ire on Peter Madsen then of Brondby iirc, because they thought he was Peter Lovenkrands of Rangers.

It would be a decent squad. And better than either of the current too teams. Johnny Evans alone'd justify it. :pac:

The Madsen incident was hilarious at the time, I remember it well..... Poor chap must have been wondering what he had done in a previous life or something!

The Volt

Speaking on a strictly sporting basis, it'd be a great idea. They may not have many players now that would break into our team but over time they would surely crop up. However, I can fully understand reasons why this should never happen. I love nothing more than standing up to the national anthem before a game, singing it ás Gaeilge and wrapping myself in a tri-colour. Symbols are extremely important to people and the idea of some sort of concession to Her Majesty makes me feel ill a little bit.

Brewster

Voltwad wrote: »

Speaking on a strictly sporting basis, it'd be a great idea. They may not have many players now that would break into our team but over time they would surely crop up. However, I can fully understand reasons why this should never happen. I love nothing more than standing up to the national anthem before a game, singing it ás Gaeilge and wrapping myself in a tri-colour. Symbols are extremely important to people and the idea of some sort of concession to Her Majesty makes me feel ill a little bit.

It would need a major change in attitude of both sides for it to work, pretty much as I posted earlier. Jonny Evans, George McCartney and Steve Davis are three players that would walk into an All Ireland side... David Healy and many others would be challenging for places no doubt.

daithijjj

It will happen eventually but not in our lifetime. Todays generation on both sides of the coin have some deep rooted feelings. The following generations will have less deep rooted feelings and the cycle continues. Religious bigotry and all thats associated with it will die out. The 'divides' we have will diminish over time. The island of ireland today is not even a toddler yet in the grand scheme of things, tentative steps will come. Whether we see the 'green shoots' of this all ireland team?, who knows. When we are all frail characters and our kids are making the rules, i think it could happen. Theres simply too many variables in this equation to have the stance of a definite 'yay or nay' on whether it could work in the immediate future.