National Press - Pistol Appeals [read MOD NOTICE in post #6 before posting!]

Sparks

Yes, if he so chooses.

murph226

Its official, I have just been refused a cert for my Sig:rolleyes:

Nothing was mentioned about the initial cert's issue date, my CS just aint entertaining any mil/police style pistols.

I must give it to the DOJ, they sneaked this in nicely!

Grizzly 45

Sparks wrote: »

Actually, the range inspector could enter any house of any criminal drug dealer searching for evidence of target shooting that wasn't taking place on an authorised range, without needing a warrant or to announce the inspection ahead of time. So the new firearms laws could, in theory at least, help crack down on gun crime... :rolleyes:

Unless he is backed up by a battalion of the ERU!!It is highly unlikely that scummers will be keeping illegal firearms in their abodes these days.
Nice in theory...:)

bunny shooter

murph226 wrote: »

Its official, I have just been refused a cert for my Sig:rolleyes:

Sorry, can't have been a surprise considering ?

murph226 wrote: »

Nothing was mentioned about the initial cert's issue date, my CS just aint entertaining any mil/police style pistols.!

They are holding that in reserve in case you overthrow that decision :eek:

murph226 wrote: »

I must give it to the DOJ, they sneaked this in nicely!

The writing was on the wall just some people couldn't read it :rolleyes:

murph226

No surprise tonight Bunny, but overall I am fairly surprised that it has come to this, especially Pat's case!

Kind of considering going for a rifle, but I wonder if theres anything safe in the future?

xesse

OK too much bad news here today
I got word i,m getting my c/f pistol licence today

murph226 wrote: »

No surprise tonight Bunny, but overall I am fairly surprised that it has come to this, especially Pat's case!

Kind of considering going for a rifle, but I wonder if theres anything safe in the future?

bunny shooter

murph226 wrote: »

No surprise tonight Bunny, but overall I am fairly surprised that it has come to this, especially Pat's case!

I am not surprised tbh the writing has been on the wall and ordinary members of the Gardai have told me this was going to happen and they were right, surprising that

murph226 wrote: »

Kind of considering going for a rifle, but I wonder if theres anything safe in the future?

No, I reckon after this nothing will be safe, except for the obvious "O" stuff :rolleyes:

murph226

Hope you get it Xesse, what area you in?

xesse

i give all the details when i get my letter in a few days

murph226 wrote: »

Hope you get it Xesse, what area you in?

bunny shooter

xesse wrote: »

i give all the details when i get my letter in a few days

Congrats !!!

What is it ?

Lemon3

Well done xesse, hope all goes through ok. I can't help but think how quiet the CF ranges are going to be, certainly for the next while anyways.

rrpc

bunny shooter wrote: »

Congrats !!!

What is it ?

A very nice tuned up .38 revolver for WA1500.

He's pretty competitive with it too :cool:

bunny shooter

SWEET !!!!!!!

My Supers would never give me a revolver, even a Ruger Single Six in .22lr/.22 WMR :mad:

Got a s/a .40 with a 15 round mag though :rolleyes:

rowa

so the law is being unevenly applied is it , so people in some areas can have them , but others can't all because they live in an other area with a different chief super ? thats the same rubbish that went before with the supers just moved up a rank .

Sparks

From the NARGC website:

IMPORTANT NOTICE TO GUN CLUB MEMBERS IN THE BALBRIGGAN GARDA DISTRICT

This is a critically important Statement from the NARGC concerning persons whose local Garda Station is Balbriggan insofar as it relates to the renewal of Firearms Licences. Please urgently read the attached link.

IMPORTANT NOTICE TO GUN CLUB MEMBERS
IN THE BALBRIGGAN GARDA DISTRICT

NARGC has been consulted by a significant number of it’s Gun Blub members in the Balbriggan Garda District who have reported being requested by the Balbriggan Garda Superintendent, or by Officers on his behalf, to surrender some firearms where the licence holders have had several guns previously licensed. We are informed that, for example, where more than one shotgun or rifle may have been licensed previously the applicant is being told to pick one as only one will be licensed and that the reason for this is that the Superintendent intends to reduce the number of licensed guns in his District.

NARGC advises Gun Club Members not to give in to this pressure. If they succumb to this, then the Garda Superintendent avoids having to make a decision, particularly a negative decision which can be challenged in the District Court. If gun owners make a choice and give up a gun under this kind of pressure they will not be able to lodge any appeal to the District Court because the Superintendent will not have made a negative decision.

Gun owners who are confronted by the Gardai requesting them to make this kind of choice should politely refuse and insist that the Superintendent is in possession of perfectly valid applications and that he will have to make his decision. Where he decides to refuse certificates for firearms he has licensed in the past, he will simply have to come to the District Court and justify his decision under cross examination when appeals are lodged.

NARGC has instructed it’s legal advisors in relation to this matter and is now anxious to receive written submissions from all NARGC Gun Club members in the Balbriggan Garda District who have been presented, either at a meeting or over the telephone, with the aforementioned option.

Details to:
NARGC,
6, Sandford Road
Ranelagh
Dublin 6
Tele: 01-497 4888
Fax: 01-497 4828
Email: nargc@iol.ie

Grizzly 45

Not trying to rain on the parade Xesse.But belive it when you have the cert in your hands....:( Have heard of two folks down South and West that were told orally that they would have their CF certs within days by their Supers and suddenly their Cheif Supers "changed their minds" and are refusing to issue....It just goes to show ,you cant trust noone in power in Ireland anymore.Sad to see that a senoir Garda officers word of honour has about as much value as an irish politicans promises on election week.

Blazher

Sparks wrote: »

From the NARGC website:

What bullsh!t! Really.

You are fit enough to have one firearm, But not more.

Only in Ireland.

This is really taking the P!ss. Sorry but it really gets to me, I mean i have lost nearly 30000 euro because of the bullsh!t

And have firearms sitting in limbo. That i can't use and can't sell.

Bananaman

Grizzly,

A Superintendent cannot issue a C/F Pistol so cannot confirm whether or not you will get it.

A Superintendent must first process the application to identify if a) you are suitable and b) if it is restricted.
They then pass on to the Chief Super with a recommendation.

In the cases you spoke of the Super most likely passed on the application with a positive recommendation but as we now see that sometimes has no bearing on the Chief Supers decision making process.

Xsesse has met with his Chief Super and been told he will be getting his license - that is a different proposition altogether.

B'Man

Grizzly 45

when I said Super in relation to CF,I thought it would be a given that everyone who reads here knows that a Cheif super is meant.But for the pendantic ones the referrals to Supers in my last post should read Cheif Supers!And no I still have not heard about my applications either.:rolleyes:

meathshooter

whats the old saying give them an inch and theyll take a mile the inch was pistols:rolleyes:

SIG

The Cork Court case was going to be a major first. The District Court is really not the place for this type of action, so I believe that no Judge in the DC was going to go against a C Super.

The position can be advanced if the applicant wants to do so.

I think that the shooting community needs to start NOW to lobby the politicians who will form the next government.
This is the best option for the average shooter. We need to start a campaign with all the different branches to get a serious LOBBY going.

Any shooter refused MUST appeal the decision or be lost for the foreseeable future.

Remember THIS NEW LICENCE is nor a renewal.It is a fresh NEW application.

This is where were were misled by the powers that be.

This act should never have seen the light of day.

Minister Mc Dowell in the many sections of the 2006 CJA showed much more common sense and good law. Sadly his advises were not available/listened to by these right wing control freaks. There is a word used to describe persons in many countries politics in the 1930's. Funny the Irish one was a commissioners of the Garda Siochana . Q.E.D.

Sparks

SIG wrote: »

Minister Mc Dowell in the many sections of the 2006 CJA showed much more common sense and good law.

Are you having a laugh? The Misc.Bill is a paper cut compared to the gralloching that the CJA2006 was to our sports!

Sadly his advises were not available/listened to by these right wing control freaks.

Are you seriously trying to suggest that Michael McDowell was anything other than right-wing?

SIG

Sparks

We got our CF's before and somewhat under that, and we could have lived with it.

What we have now is a whole lot different

rrpc

SIG wrote: »

Remember THIS NEW LICENCE is nor a renewal.It is a fresh NEW application.

They are renewals. Anyone saying otherwise has neither read the firearms acts nor understood them. Section 9 of the 1964 Act is the operative piece of legislation and it's still in force and was even updated under the 2009 act.

I challenge anyone to point out that part of the firearms act that says you don't renew every three years. In fact here's the bit that says you do, and that's also been updated in 2009:

3(7) A firearm certificate which is in force, other than a relevant firearm certificate continued in force under section 3(3) of this Act, as amended by section 28 of the Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009, shall continue in force for a period of 3 years from the date on which it was granted, unless revoked, and for any further such period for which it may be renewed.

Your firearms certificate was extended and then you applied for a renewal of it. The fact that the form is the same as for a new application does not stop it being a renewal.

Sparks

SIG wrote: »

Sparks
We got our CF's before and somewhat under that, and we could have lived with it.

No, actually you didn't. The CJA2006 didn't fully come into effect for quite some time, so the CF pistols were licenced mostly under the old laws.

Sparks

rrpc wrote: »

They are renewals. Anyone saying otherwise has neither read the firearms acts nor understood them. Section 9 of the 1964 Act is the operative piece of legislation and it's still in force and was even updated under the 2009 act.

I challenge anyone to point out that part of the firearms act that says you don't renew every three years. In fact here's the bit that says you do, and that's also been updated in 2009:


Your firearms certificate was extended and then you applied for a renewal of it. The fact that the form is the same as for a new application does not stop it being a renewal.

While I completely agree with your assessment rrpc, you might want to let the DoJ, Gardai and several others know about that because they've been saying the exact opposite for a little while now...

SIG

All,
Are you telling us that we did not need Ahern's/Murphy contribution then ? !

However, deal with the issue of starting to lobby for sensible regulation, this i think is the way forward.

SIG

They are renewals. Anyone saying otherwise has neither read the firearms acts nor understood them. Section 9 of the 1964 Act is the operative piece of legislation and it's still in force and was even updated under the 2009 act.

rrpc
Renewal , means that you have something renewed. I.E. the Permit you had is re-issued. your car licence is renewed, your golf club membership is renewed. This is not what is happening.
What IS happening is that each one of us is being asked to justify / explain / support an APPLICATION. See NARGC / Balbriggan issue.

If it was a renewal then this would not be necessary.

rowa

SIG wrote: »

All,
Are you telling us that we did not need Ahern's/Murphy contribution then ? !

However, deal with the issue of starting to lobby for sensible regulation, this i think is the way forward.

waste of time with the current crowd but their days are very numbered now, especially if the budget is shot down , i believe that some people have already spoken to the parties that will form the next government about fair legislation , time to get really organised .

BornToKill

rrpc wrote: »

In fact here's the bit that says you do, and that's also been updated in 2009:

3(7) A firearm certificate which is in force, other than a relevant firearm certificate continued in force under section 3(3) of this Act, as amended by section 28 of the Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009, shall continue in force for a period of 3 years from the date on which it was granted, unless revoked, and for any further such period for which it may be renewed.

Your firearms certificate was extended and then you applied for a renewal of it. The fact that the form is the same as for a new application does not stop it being a renewal.

I don't know about the renewal v. new application but I don't see that the extract from the Firearms Act establishes your position. This is a provision for the future. Any certificate granted will be of three years duration (so therefore the new three-year cert.) and may be renewed.