SU bashing and complaints

mrmanire

People wouldn't be knocking the SU if there wasn't something there to knock. I don't think people just do it for the craic....

Dante on Fire

NickDrake wrote: »

She called it that??

well look at her opening post clearly something has reached the union about dissatisfaction - probably from something i said no doub as it came a day after a post that i put up and deleted -as it was a response to who i wanted they got the message.

its just a pity i can see that the point is for her to want to try and improve the office -which is commendable and i have great respect for it

but like i said this is tangentville and we are on the main road in

NickDrake

Dante on Fire wrote: »

well look at her opening post clearly something has reached the union about dissatisfaction - probably from something i said no doub as it came a day after a post that i put up and deleted -as it was a response to who i wanted they got the message.

its just a pity i can see that the point is for her to want to try and improve the office -which is commendable and i have great respect for it

but like i said this is tangentville and we are on the main road in

Ah you are not getting my point. I am getting at the fact that it is ironic that such a thread should be started by the SU after all the censorship on here over the years.

I am not going off on a tangent.

Dante on Fire

NickDrake wrote: »

Ah you are not getting my point. I am getting at the fact that it is ironic that such a thread should be started by the SU after all the censorship on here over the years.

I am not going off on a tangent.

oh i do get your point of course - but i think that this is an individual sabbats attempt at improving her own office -this is why it should have been called something else.

i dunno bout censorship on here but if it is started by the union as a whole -as stated by mis education - she cant answer for anyone else so it deals solely with her which shows no official line bar her office and she wants to hear about those relating to complaints education -wise

but if there has been censorship on the unions part then it points that its not about tackling the problem but covering it up

and if im honest i have not seen that on this... but respect any correction - with substancial evidence

NickDrake

Dante on Fire wrote: »

oh i do get your point of course - but i think that this is an individual sabbats attempt at improving her own office -this is why it should have been called something else.

i dunno bout censorship on here but if it is started by the union as a whole -as stated by mis education - she cant answer for anyone else so it deals solely with her which shows no official line bar her office and she wants to hear about those relating to complaints education -wise

but if there has been censorship on the unions part then it points that its not about tackling the problem but covering it up

and if im honest i have not seen that on this... but respect any correction - with substancial evidence

Easy - search for the An Focal threads as I said. There is also a thread somewhere where a person running for election had their post removed. They also had their posters removed on campus. Think it was 2 years ago now. I will find the thread if I can. If not I will try and get him on here himself to prove the censorship issue a few years back.

Ya I respect ms education for starting this thread as it is certainly against what the SU has done on here before.

Dante on Fire

NickDrake wrote: »

Easy - search for the An Focal threads as I said. There is also a thread somewhere where a person running for election had their post removed. They also had their posters removed on campus. Think it was 2 years ago now. I will find the thread if I can. If not I will try and get him on here himself to prove the censorship issue a few years back.

Ya I respect ms education for starting this thread as it is certainly against what the SU has done on here before.

As a future candidate i would be very interested in seeing those...bit hard to believe tbh - removing posters i can only say that were they defamatory in any way? not that i'm sticking up for the union its just a very serious thing- i'd be very interested in those. that thread would be a very good read!:D

bluedolphin

NickDrake wrote: »

Already an a former SU sabat ( Bluedolphin) had a go at the thread. I am sure she reported it too.

I didn't have a go at the thread. By all means have a SU bashing thread.

If you re-read my post I was merely saying that I don't think it's fair to expect current officers who happen to have Boards.ie accounts (namely, ninty9er and ergonomics) to answer professionally under these personal accounts. They are entitled to have lives outside of the SU too. By all means if they wish to answer in a professional capacity, then they can do should but it shouldn't be expected of them on here under their personal accounts which they set up long before they were even thinking of running for office. That's what I was getting at.

Tbqh, I couldn't give a flying rat's arse about the SU anymore or what anyone says about it. I'm living in London in a different university with a different union which I actively chose not to get involved with so I couldn't tell you one thing or another about it or what they do (or even how many 'they' are). So to say that I'm having a "go" at the thread (on the grounds that it's bashing the establishment I'm so ardently in favour of defending, allegedly) is quite bonkers.

Re: "SU censorship" of threads here: IMHO, sometimes expressions of grievances with the SU cross the fine line between attacking the office/establishment and the actual person which makes things sticky from a legal point of view and therefore more liable to be closed than a thread on "where is the best hot chicken roll in UL?" or "how do I connect my laptop to the wireless network?", for example.

Re: the HPSS thread - again, general boards.ie rules states that once a thread has served its function it will be locked. What part of "HPSS is shít" (or whatever the title was) demonstrates to serve the discussion of "I think the SU is a HPSS conspiracy". My own memory of 13 years gearing up to the Leaving Cert has the mantra, "Answer the question you're asked" flashing to the fore of my mind right now.

And to point out right now, this thread too is going off-topic, and may well be closed because it's no longer serving its title's purpose. But of course then there'll be accusations of another SU conspiracy. *shrug*

Edit: Oh, and for the record, I didn't "report" it. Like I stated above, I couldn't give a fiddler's what people think about the SU (on the grounds that I know what the lads are going through and it's up to them to make the mistakes or make the breaks) so I really doubt that this thread is the most pressing thing on my agenda right now. In fact, I've an essay due on Friday and I'm just using it as a method of procrastination! :pac:

Edit II:
And just one final thing - is the notion of 'active citizenship' unheard of in this modern society? How can it be expected of five (six, including PSA) sabbats to individually contact each student by every possible means? Fair play to the education officer for actively seeking out boards and setting up a professional account to deal with issues relating to her job, but what about all the students that don't have boards.ie accounts to access her this way? Yes, sabbats have a responsibility to actively seek feedback from their constituents but constituents have an equal responsibility to make the effort to tell sabbats. There are too many modes of communication for a group of five people to individually communicate with 10,000+ students... It was easier 10 years ago; easier again 20 years ago. To give them credit, there is a website, facebook, bebo, twitter, skype as well as standard email, phone and face-to-face office hours (maybe more? I'm not sure). What efforts are those with complaints doing to make their complaints heard? Sitting back on your laurels waiting for sabbats to come to you is naive and selfish. With rights comes responsibility.

NickDrake

bluedolphin wrote: »

Re: "SU censorship" of threads here: IMHO, sometimes expressions of grievances with the SU cross the fine line between attacking the office/establishment and the actual person which makes things sticky from a legal point of view and therefore more liable to be closed than a thread on "where is the best hot chicken roll in UL?" or "how do I connect my laptop to the wireless network?", for example.

Legal? I don't think anything said on these UL boards would be deemed defamatory. If that is the legal point you are referring to.

To be honest, saying it might be a sticky legal situation is bonkers. You made need to read up on the defamation bill there.

cson

I'd definitely like to echo what bluedolphin said, excellent post.

Perhpas the thread title Ms.Education chose is a touch misleading. I'd imagine she's actually looking for ways to improve her office and make it a successful term for herself and the SU. As I have said it's a commendable step and should she help even only one student here then it's a successful endeavour.

Its a fair point to make that SU officers are people too and as such they may have different opinions as to what the SU official line is. I think we should respect them as firstly posters and then if they choose to act on behalf of the union then well and good. I know both ergonomics and Ninty9er have contributed hugely to this forum and have given great advice to people who have asked for it here.

I also feel that people unhappy with the SU or how it is run should do more than complain about it on a message board if they truly feel aggreived. It's much like the numerous people who blame Fianna Fail and the current Government for the current crisis the country is in - they talk to Joe and complain to the high heavens yet never do anything about it. If you do feel conspiracies or aggrievance at the SU, contact them or organise a protest.

As regards locking threads, moderators are here to serve boards.ie and to hold in interest the site itself and its posters. Every thread that has been locked has been done so with the interests of boards.ie itself and I challenge anyone to find an unjustifiably locked thread on the UL forum. Bear in mind that there is no free speech here - boards.ie is a limited company and can be subject to legal action if you make unfounded claims or allegations. I apologise to Sceptre or Petee if I've overstepped the mark in stating this as you guys are the mods at the end of the day.

Lastly; I personally have no issue with the SU. Granted in my 2.5 years here, I've felt previous SU's have done a better job but I'd imagine you're working on a restricted budget so that's understandable. As bd alluded to above, there is an element of being proactive about the SU - I'm sure all the officers' doors are always open and you'll find someone to listen and advise you if that's what you're looking for or take note of any suggestions you may have. At the end of the day, the SU is for the students and elected by the students to serve students interests.

Ms. Education

Ms. Education wrote: »

SU bashing is quite common so I thought it might be useful if I started this thread. So I'm asking what's wrong with what I've done/what I'm doing this year? I can't answer for other officers, but I can respond to any criticisms of me or answer any questions related to my job. So let's have it..

The purpose and subject of this thread

sceptre

I'll pop in a longer post later when I have a few minutes to spare but I lock threads when they get abusive or are veering towards belonging on the short bus. I follow the same policy in Politics and Literature. If anyone thinks I've any interest in stifling conversation on the topic of the SU or criticism of it, then you've never met me and can't read.

Incidentally, complaints about moderation go on the Help Desk. In the same way that I issued an open invite when closing that HPSS thread (which had strongly veered into idiotland), you have an open invite to go there and complain about the moderation, as people have from any forum on boards.ie. As an admin on the site and a local moderator of this board, I'm perfectly down with people raising issues about moderation in any way. The general procedure is to PM the mod first, then take it to the Category Mod and then to Help Desk if nothing's been resolved to reasonable satisfaction. That's all in the welcome email and the site FAQ, which are useful to read. I'd suggest that you take the opportunity in this thread to discuss the SU or the specific aspects of it which the education officer invited but hey, it's your quarter and everyone has the option of criticising with a point or warbling along without one. That's a call everyone can make by themselves. irish people have a habit of complaining without a point. Complain with a point. it works so much better - X is wrong, Y is wrong and Z should be done better. That's what you probably should do or at least what I'd suggest.

Seriously, anyone who thinks that any mod here has stifled debate is a bit of a card - I love a bit of discussion and controversy as long as it isn't in shortbus land. Things always get better with a bit of reasonable criticism and discussion.

Paddy, if you want to go looking for the threads as a future candidate or not it's quite easy to search for An Focal or anything else. There's an excellent google search on the front page here. Anything to do with any past discussion is really easy to find - all you have to do is type in the words that are longer than three letters. It's really easy, you just have to make 20 seconds of effort.

Sifling debate, you've got to be kidding. Stifling idiocy and abuse yes.

cson wrote: »

As regards locking threads, moderators are here to serve boards.ie and to hold in interest the site itself and its posters. Every thread that has been locked has been done so with the interests of boards.ie itself and I challenge anyone to find an unjustifiably locked thread on the UL forum. Bear in mind that there is no free speech here - boards.ie is a limited company and can be subject to legal action if you make unfounded claims or allegations. I apologise to Sceptre or Petee if I've overstepped the mark in stating this as you guys are the mods at the end of the day.

No apology necessary. And also, you're bang on the money there. And unfortunately so few people bother theie asses to read the forum charter or the site rules and I say that to you as someone whom I'm pretty sure has.

Ms. Education wrote:

Ms. Education wrote: »

SU bashing is quite common so I thought it might be useful if I started this thread. So I'm asking what's wrong with what I've done/what I'm doing this year? I can't answer for other officers, but I can respond to any criticisms of me or answer any questions related to my job. So let's have it..

The purpose and subject of this thread

/me nods

If no-one pays attention to that and hence fails to take the opportunity to engage with an SU officer as opposed to complaining in the corner like Irish people often do, you're wasting your time. That's my view but I come bearing sense. Lots of sense. You don't have to say nice things; in fact there's an explicit invitation not to where appropriate.

Dante on Fire

sceptre wrote: »

I'll pop in a longer post later when I have a few minutes to spare but I lock threads when they get abusive or are veering towards belonging on the short bus. I follow the same policy in Politics and Literature. If anyone thinks I've any interest in stifling conversation on the topic of the SU or criticism of it, then you've never met me and can't read.

Incidentally, complaints about moderation go on the Help Desk. In the same way that I issued an open invite when closing that HPSS thread (which had strongly veered into idiotland), you have an open invite to go there and complain about the moderation, as people have from any forum on boards.ie. As an admin on the site and a local moderator of this board, I'm perfectly down with people raising issues about moderation in any way. The general procedure is to PM the mod first, then take it to the Category Mod and then to Help Desk if nothing's been resolved to reasonable satisfaction. That's all in the welcome email and the site FAQ, which are useful to read. I'd suggest that you take the opportunity in this thread to discuss the SU or the specific aspects of it which the education officer invited but hey, it's your quarter and everyone has the option of criticising with a point or warbling along without one. That's a call everyone can make by themselves. irish people have a habit of complaining without a point. Complain with a point. it works so much better - X is wrong, Y is wrong and Z should be done better. That's what you probably should do or at least what I'd suggest.

Seriously, anyone who thinks that any mod here has stifled debate is a bit of a card - I love a bit of discussion and controversy as long as it isn't in shortbus land. Things always get better with a bit of reasonable criticism and discussion.

Paddy, if you want to go looking for the threads as a future candidate or not it's quite easy to search for An Focal or anything else. There's an excellent google search on the front page here. Anything to do with any past discussion is really easy to find - all you have to do is type in the words that are longer than three letters. It's really easy, you just have to make 20 seconds of effort.

Sifling debate, you've got to be kidding. Stifling idiocy and abuse yes.


No apology necessary. And also, you're bang on the money there. And unfortunately so few people bother theie asses to read the forum charter or the site rules and I say that to you as someone whom I'm pretty sure has.


/me nods

If no-one pays attention to that and hence fails to take the opportunity to engage with an SU officer as opposed to complaining in the corner like Irish people often do, you're wasting your time. That's my view but I come bearing sense. Lots of sense. You don't have to say nice things; in fact there's an explicit invitation not to where appropriate.

With all due respect I think you may have misjudged my posts. i have had an opportunity to look at these (an focal etc.) - with a little help if truth be told - i originally doubted the accusation particuarly with you in mind (with regard to censorship )and defended the creation of such a thread.
i'm highlighting the change of direction of this thread and its purpose and like aoife has stated the purpose and point - I see it but you cant blame someone for going on a rant in a form thats named' s.u bashing and complaints' - most people see that and would bypass what aoife originally posted and just gone to rant - i want to challenge the person with regard to censorship because i have'nt seen any. (And i was looking for evidence from the poster of such i know what to look through for my campaign)

thats my 2 cents - like i said b4 this is ment to improve the quality of the service but is being used as a complaints department!

:(:confused:

And if any complaints exist with regard to the union i will deal with them face to face as you can see from last week and the removal of my post - there are officers that can deal with that. so can we get the thread back to what it is supposed to be? EveryOne!

Dante on Fire

Sifling debate, you've got to be kidding. Stifling idiocy and abuse yes.

I do hope this does not relate to my posts, seamus mine is not based on abuse as i think you'll find i have great respect for aoife and am not abusing her or her position at any stage in this thread

kaimera

NickDrake wrote: »

U serious? No censorship? The above have connections with the SU and thats enough. As I said they were not all in the SU but are connected to it as they will be part of the clique.

If you don't believe the censorship just look at the threads on An Focal over the years for example.

Awful lot of bleating going on tbqh.

This UL forum has no and I mean zero official affiliation with UL and/or the ULSU.

It doesn't matter a tap who is/may have been involved in the SU, boards.ie rules over-ride everything else.

Anything locked/deleted was done so as a breach of site rules.

NickDrake

Dante on Fire wrote: »

With all due respect I think you may have misjudged my posts. i have had an opportunity to look at these (an focal etc.) - with a little help if truth be told - i originally doubted the accusation particuarly with you in mind (with regard to censorship )and defended the creation of such a thread.
i'm highlighting the change of direction of this thread and its purpose and like aoife has stated the purpose and point - I see it but you cant blame someone for going on a rant in a form thats named' s.u bashing and complaints' - most people see that and would bypass what aoife originally posted and just gone to rant - i want to challenge the person with regard to censorship because i have'nt seen any. (And i was looking for evidence from the poster of such i know what to look through for my campaign)

thats my 2 cents - like i said b4 this is ment to improve the quality of the service but is being used as a complaints department!

:(:confused:

And if any complaints exist with regard to the union i will deal with them face to face as you can see from last week and the removal of my post - there are officers that can deal with that. so can we get the thread back to what it is supposed to be? EveryOne!

Ok here are the examples of the censorship:

As we know the HPSS thread last week that was closed by a former SU sabat once the SU was mentioned. no need to link this.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055250093&page=6

This thread is an example. Last week it was reopened by a poster and quickly locked as it mention the censorship of a candidates posts and posters on campus. the candidate has informed me that he will come on this thread today to confirm this

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055254423

this thread wasnt closed but poster were reported and sent PMs for bringing up their issues with An Focal and bascially threatened to stop posting. Again an SU sabat at the time was involved in the censorship.

Plain to see. The SU does not liked to be critised on this forum or indeed other forums. The get up on their high horse when people have a go at them and complain etc.

Keep this thread open. As I have said censorship is often blissful ignorance.

NickDrake

kaimera wrote: »

You, are an idiot.

Awful lot of bleating going on tbqh.

This UL forum has no and I mean zero official affiliation with UL and/or the ULSU.

It doesn't matter a tap who is/may have been involved in the SU, boards.ie rules over-ride everything else.

Anything locked/deleted was done so as a breach of site rules.

Less of the personal insults.

kaimera

NickDrake wrote: »

Less of the personal insults.

Less of the stupid comments like every mod has some affiliation to an organisation and the ZOMG censoring.

Deal?

The Don

NickDrake wrote: »

Search for it if you don't believe me.
Most of the users on here over the years were in the SU or involved in it in some way or another. In other words part of the clique.

We're back to the old 'clique' thing. A lot of posters know each other having met outside or through this forum. Most of which have not been involved in the SU. There have been plenty of threads with meetups for beers, soccer, gaeilge, etc. You have noone else to blame if you don't want to get to know posters better and become part of the 'clique'.

kaimera wrote: »

You, are an idiot.

Awful lot of bleating going on tbqh.

This UL forum has no and I mean zero official affiliation with UL and/or the ULSU.

It doesn't matter a tap who is/may have been involved in the SU, boards.ie rules over-ride everything else.

Anything locked/deleted was done so as a breach of site rules.

We're starting to go off in that tangent now. Kai there's no need for personal abuse and you should know better. This thread is going to be closed soon if we're not careful.

There should be 2 threads created. An Offical SU bashing thread where all the rants go (most of this thread can go there). And an Official SU Help thread where you post if you want things changed or something done to help you.

sceptre

Dante on Fire wrote: »

I do hope this does not relate to my posts,

Not at all. Purely at whatever post it was that was pretty sure that debate is being stifled around here.

Kaimera, pease don't call other users idiots. That goes equally for everyone else. Note that this is the precise line I took last time there was personal abuse on this forum, where the current "victim" was then the "perp". Complaints to me by PM or by following the complaints procedure which I outlined back up the page.

NickDrake, you're not a moderator so stop playing one.

Now, if you could all get back on topic that'd be plain peachy. That's how you avoid being censored and having your views stifled around here (something that most of the site's 200,000 members understand). Playground this is not.

NickDrake

The Don wrote: »

We're back to the old 'clique' thing. A lot of posters know each other having met outside or through this forum. Most of which have not been involved in the SU. There have been plenty of threads with meetups for beers, soccer, gaeilge, etc. You have noone else to blame if you don't want to get to know posters better and become part of the 'clique'

I am referring to the SU clique

Peteee

Kai, c'mon you know better then most, stop the personal abuse.

You even said it, boards.ie rules overrides everything else, and personal abuse is against the charter.

Peteee

NickDrake wrote: »

Ok here are the examples of the censorship:

As we know the HPSS thread last week that was closed by a former SU sabat once the SU was mentioned. no need to link this.

This was closed for going off topic. What does the SU have to do with HPSS? Off topic

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055250093&page=6

This thread is an example. Last week it was reopened by a poster and quickly locked as it mention the censorship of a candidates posts and posters on campus. the candidate has informed me that he will come on this thread today to confirm this

Reopened after months, because mrmaneire posted 'Yeah Roysh'. Really helpful. Then there was personal abuse, so it was deleted and locked.

Nothing conspiratorial at all.

NickDrake

Peteee wrote: »

This was closed for going off topic. What does the SU have to do with HPSS? Off topic



Reopened after months, because mrmaneire posted 'Yeah Roysh'. Really helpful. Then there was personal abuse, so it was deleted and locked.

Nothing conspiratorial at all.

Just all happened to mention the SU

kaimera

NickDrake wrote:

Just all happened to mention the SU

sceptre wrote:

In the same way that I issued an open invite when closing that HPSS thread (which had strongly veered into idiotland)

You really just read what you want to even after it's been put in plain text before your eyes.

mrmanire

Peteee wrote: »

Reopened after months, because mrmaneire posted 'Yeah Roysh'. Really helpful. Then there was personal abuse, so it was deleted and locked.

I don't remember that post at all. Explain?

Ms. Education

Ms. Education wrote: »

SU bashing is quite common so I thought it might be useful if I started this thread. So I'm asking what's wrong with what I've done/what I'm doing this year? I can't answer for other officers, but I can respond to any criticisms of me or answer any questions related to my job. So let's have it..

Ms. Education wrote: »

The purpose and subject of this thread

Still the purpose and subject of this thread

NickDrake

mrmanire wrote: »

I don't remember that post at all. Explain?

I didn't say that mrmanire. Petee did.

Peteee

mrmanire wrote: »

I don't remember that post at all. Explain?

The post was deleted for dragging up a months old thread and for being an utterly useless post. While the thread had descended into laughing stock territory already, its no use to drag it up from the ether.

That thread is still open btw, its not been locked. Other posts were deleted for personal abuse.

mrmanire

Peteee wrote: »

The post was deleted for dragging up a months old thread and for being an utterly useless post. While the thread had descended into laughing stock territory already, its no use to drag it up from the ether.

That thread is still open btw, its not been locked. Other posts were deleted for personal abuse.

I seriously forgot about that!

Nice use of paint.

Brilliant

Does anybody remember that FDW craic?

Fiachra D-W

Roysh! Ok I have been informed by friends of mine that I have been loike mentioned again on the whole elections and censorship issue.

I still feel very strongly on the censorship issue. So I will basically fill you goys in on what happened on Boards and during election time.

Basically roysh, All my posters were removed from campus by members of the SU and others in the SU 'clique' that has ruined the SU. So Aoife you can loike take that on board as a complaint and keep this on topic. I have to say roysh I have heard you are doing loike a great job. Basically, fair focks for starting this thread because it has given people a chance to get stuff of their chests and yourself too. I can see that you will be going far in life if you stick to that attitude.

An attitude similar to the Leinster rugby team. Not afraid to stand up to their peers and not afraid of in fights. The goys often left themselves open to criticism. But can I just add you are defo better looking than the goys.

Censorship is a serious issue and it has been loike active and **** on this forum over the years. I had many a thread closed or deleted by SU related mods who were either in sabat or part of the SU clique.

Not roysh, I think NickDrake has mentioned a few. However roysh most have been deleted just loike my posters around campus.

Now I know many goys and chicks (chicks espcially as I knwo a fair few, if you know what I mean) will come on here to support me but others will have a go. We know the truth. Just loike the Irish soccer team.

Furthermore the whole point of being a student is to revolt against the masses. So for censorship to still reign is not the mae west situation.

Anyway, I have said my piece here.

p.s This thread must remain open as people want to voice their concern on censorship which is after all, a right wing agenda. Now I was the goy who proposed to change the white house green area into a car pork but I won't stoop as low as to censor. The car pork was needed, censorship isn’t.

Your in rugby

Fiachra Dempsey-Whitlely