SU bashing and complaints

bowtiegirl

I haven't posted here before but from reading what's been put on this thread so far, you've got one or two people who are complaining about the Students' Union being a clique even though outsiders seem to run for and win elections there quite a bit, I suppose some of you think they then become members of the new world order and join the oppression. Then you've got someone rabbiting on about how he/she reckons it was rubbish a few years ago even though that's got nothing to do with the question (which I think was what's wrong with the SU in your view this year). Another one complaining about the "gap" between students' union officers and the general populace, even though as a former part-time SU officer he doesn't explain how he highlighted this as a problem in his own year of office and finds it better to raise it as an issue he sees this year when he's running for election himself. No offence but it's a bit convenient raising it now for your campaign - why didn't you mentino it here or anywhere else some time last year when you were on the SU executive thing?

Am I the only person to reckon that all of the above is pretty much useless, pointless and just a few people getting up on their high horses and complaining without purpose? The question was what's wrong with the education office this year and by extension the SU this year. Almost no-one's actually bothered to say "X is wrong this year, what are you going to do about it". Having been handed the opportunity to have a direct dialogue with one of the current officers in public where everyone can see it, most of the chief complainers in this thread aren't bothering to use that opportunity and are still just flicking out the "Clique! massive Clique" card.

What a waste of time and a chance for giving valid criticism. I've never had any involvement with the SU - I think I've said hi to one or two of this year's people in the courtyard once or twice. But some of the whiners in this thread need to either poo or get off the pot as there have been only a few actual tangible complaints (like the TV screens and the state of the common room for example). The clique thing is a load of cod - as far as I can see anyone who wants to get involved can get involved in any way they like. It's not the job of the students' union people to chase after you.

Oh and the common room smells of rotting food. Some students are messy pigs.

Dante on Fire

bowtiegirl wrote: »

I Another one complaining about the "gap" between students' union officers and the general populace, even though as a former part-time SU officer he doesn't explain how he highlighted this as a problem in his own year of office and finds it better to raise it as an issue he sees this year when he's running for election himself. No offence but it's a bit convenient raising it now for your campaign - why didn't you mentino it here or anywhere else some time last year when you were on the SU executive thing?

Well if you knew what i did last year you will find that i did try that and at one stage had to battle with union officers with regard to going in the opposite direction of such an action.

In my role as community relations officer i was part of a team who activly went out to different accomodation areas on and off campus - looking for feedback with regard to how the union was working and is there any issues we can deal with for the students - in that we really did find out where we were lacking and we were able to combat them or at least put a plan into action for the incoming sabbats!

We always discussed ways of reaching the students at exec and most work when put into action but we do see the same people - class reps - which is great -these people are involved and are always there to put work in. they genuinely care about the union - but it is difficult as most students only come to the union when they need it

I find it wise to mention it this year as i have taken a step back from the union to look at it as a student as i would have been biased as a community relations officer- And yes as i am running for a position maybe it is wise for me to highlight some issues that need to be addressed by the union - what kind of person would i be to run for a position where i dont think it can be improved or that we as a union can do more- so much more!

Hope that deals with your Q's

fullback4glin

Are students on teaching practice ever going to get paid?

Dante on Fire

fullback4glin wrote: »

Are students on teaching practice ever going to get paid?

its hard to say - we did a placement protest last year but that was rife with difficulty

I have discussed this with people with some people in UL and we have some ideas that the teaching practice / co-op office and they thought the idea (of getting us teachrs paid) was impossible - and there was a full stop put after it.

Being on T.P myself im really annoyed at not getting at least something for the money i pay to get to the school each day or the money we spent on resources which has mounted up to beyond 600 for a 9 week stint in 4th year!

I wish they would and would definatly work towards getting it but when you see themselves prepping the reg fee to rise you cant help but feel that they are not gonna budge on it. I'm definatly gonna bring it up in the next few weeks when i get back for an action item the s.u could help us with - knowing them in the new year they might have one planned.
there are loads of options for the university - I just feel bad for the heads who have to crash on couches in between T.P -

If your in 4th year and in the education lecture look out for the people at the start we're gonna evaluate how t/p went wit regard to the t/p office. tutor evaluation- and effects on ye as teachers(money stress etc.)

be sure to take a sheet -all is confidential aswell!

fullback4glin

Cool thanks I'm sure ye're tryin ye're best, prob fighting a losing battle anyway but hows ever!

Thanks again

NickDrake

On the issue of TP. It is unfortunate that students do not get paid but for example in the USA most students give their right hand for some relevant experience and most of internships over there are unpaid.

In the current economic situation students basically receive free(ish) education and don't pay any tax, perhaps one should be a lot more grateful and get on with it.

Spending a bit less on booze and bad food should help a student save a bit more money for TP.

Perhaps I am being a bit harsh here as my COOP was paid (be it a terrible wage) but even though students on TP don't get paid, they still have a LOT to be thankful for.

Finally, it is great to see a thread on SU issues finally getting going. A few more student voices on here would be good as the SU has a lot of support on here.

fullback4glin

NickDrake wrote: »

On the issue of TP. It is unfortunate that students do not get paid but for example in the USA most students give their right hand for some relevant experience and most of internships over there are unpaid.

In the current economic situation students basically receive free(ish) education and don't pay any tax, perhaps one should be a lot more grateful and get on with it.

Spending a bit less on booze and bad food should help a student save a bit more money for TP.

Perhaps I am being a bit harsh here as my COOP was paid (be it a terrible wage) but even though students on TP don't get paid, they still have a LOT to be thankful for.

Finally, it is great to see a thread on SU issues finally getting going. A few more student voices on here would be good as the SU has a lot of support on here.

Right hold on a second.
First of all I take it you have not been on T.P. because you said you were on Co-op? Not for one second will I listen to somebodies views on pay for TP if they haven't been through it for themselves.
And whats this rubbish about "Spending a bit less on booze and bad food should help a student save a bit more money for TP"....... I don't even know where to begin with that like ffs!

NickDrake

fullback4glin wrote: »

Right hold on a second.
First of all I take it you have not been on T.P. because you said you were on Co-op? Not for one second will I listen to somebodies views on pay for TP if they haven't been through it for themselves.
And whats this rubbish about "Spending a bit less on booze and bad food should help a student save a bit more money for TP"....... I don't even know where to begin with that like ffs!

I have lived with people on TP and I know it is hard for ye. But think about it. If students save a bit harder and spend less then they will have more income for TP.

So you will only listen to views by people who have been on TP?? You are limiting your chance of anyone helping you get paid there.

As I have said, I know it is tough for ye. But ye still have a LOT to be grateful for.

mrmanire

NickDrake wrote: »

I have lived with people on TP and I know it is hard for ye. But think about it. If students save a bit harder and spend less then they will have more income for TP.

So you will only listen to views by people who have been on TP?? You are limiting your chance of anyone helping you get paid there.

As I have said, I know it is tough for ye. But ye still have a LOT to be grateful for.

Yeah I have to agree with you there. Students should feel grateful for getting the TP whether it is paid or not. It has also to be taken into consideration that until very recently; once you started teaching you pretty much had a well paid job for live. What's a few months unpaid?

Also about the lack of income; there are plenty ways a student on TP can supplement there income, working and such. Anyway, why can't students cut down on drinking and going out. I remember when I started College back in 2003; few had people cars. Now everybody seems to think that a car in college and a J1 are a divine right. The life of a student is supposed to be a frugal one.

fullback4glin

NickDrake wrote: »

I have lived with people on TP and I know it is hard for ye. But think about it. If students save a bit harder and spend less then they will have more income for TP.

So you will only listen to views by people who have been on TP?? You are limiting your chance of anyone helping you get paid there.

As I have said, I know it is tough for ye. But ye still have a LOT to be grateful for.

I know we've a lot to be grateful for and I appreciate that but that doesn't mean that we don't need to get some sort of payment, even petrol expenses.

Take any other trainee in any other profession in Ireland, they are all paid during their training, Gardai, Nurses (in their final placement), Defence Forces, all trades people ( Plumbers, Electricians) etc. etc. etc.
Why can't we be paid for our training like everyone else in the Public Sector and a lot of areas in the Private Sector.

And whats this about INCOME where is a full time student with 30+ hours plus extra work supposed to get INCOME???

mrmanire

fullback4glin wrote: »

I know we've a lot to be grateful for and I appreciate that but that doesn't mean that we don't need to get some sort of payment, even petrol expenses.

Take any other trainee in any other profession in Ireland, they are all paid during their training, Gardai, Nurses (in their final placement), Defence Forces, all trades people ( Plumbers, Electricians) etc. etc. etc.
Why can't we be paid for our training like everyone else in the Public Sector and a lot of areas in the Private Sector.

And whats this about INCOME where is a full time student with 30+ hours plus extra work supposed to get INCOME???

I used to do 30+ hours in college every week and worked 20+ hours at the weekend. Toughen up.

fullback4glin

mrmanire wrote: »

I used to do 30+ hours in college every week and worked 20+ hours at the weekend. Toughen up.

We're (obviously) two different people so you cannot compare your're situation with mine. End of.

Dante on Fire

mrmanire wrote: »

I used to do 30+ hours in college every week and worked 20+ hours at the weekend. Toughen up.

Teaching practice requires more than finishing at 4 on a friday and starting again @ 9 on a monday

if you were ever on t.p you would understand that the weekend belongs to a folder for the next week - serious work covering other teachers classes who at the end of the day get extra pay for being one class short

after nine weeks of expenses to and from the school and project materials -not found in the school- you are going to be a bit bitter

like spending 600 on a module in college -'JUST TO DO IT!'

NickDrake

fullback4glin wrote: »

And whats this about INCOME where is a full time student with 30+ hours plus extra work supposed to get INCOME???

The thing is students spend a LOT of money of booze and bad food. Therefore if TP students save a bit more then they wont be so hard up.

In the States work experience is unpaid. I often feel students have it too soft in this country. I certainly had at times.

The public sector is a mess and employees are extremely over paid. I know because I used work in it. Therefore not paying students who are in fact studying is not so bad.

It is the same as looking to get paid for going to lectures. It is all part of the course and you knew before you applied for it. Look the Nursing course in UL do 20 hours a week of worse work than TPs and they accept it. From 1-4 years

Also don't worry you will get paid enough when you qualify and get a nice little pension for yourself and days off to go shopping when there is a strike on.

I am in danger in going off topic here and the mods will be on to me AGAIN. They are easily aggravated. So don;t be surprised if they PM you. So if you want to start a knew thread I will discuss more with you there.

mrmanire

NickDrake wrote: »

The thing is students spend a LOT of money of booze and bad food. Therefore if TP students save a bit more then they wont be so hard up.

In the States work experience is unpaid. I often feel students have it too soft in this country. I certainly had at times.

The public sector is a mess and employees are extremely over paid. I know because I used work in it. Therefore not paying students who are in fact studying is not so bad.

It is the same as looking to get paid for going to lectures. It is all part of the course and you knew before you applied for it. Look the Nursing course in UL do 20 hours a week of worse work than TPs and they accept it. From 1-4 years

Also don't worry you will get paid enough when you qualify and get a nice little pension for yourself and days off to go shopping when there is a strike on.

I am in danger in going off topic here and the mods will be on to me AGAIN. They are easily aggravated. So don;t be surprised if they PM you. So if you want to start a knew thread I will discuss more with you there.

Civil service is a joke but I suppose that's a bit off topic. I hear it was one of the busiest nights of the year for Coppers the day before the strike. A nice long line down Harcourt street at 11 o Clock that night.

Some amount of whingers round the place. Students should just stick their heads down and get the four years out of the way. I have three more years of bad pay until I get my professional qualification and do I whinge. Course I don't. Privileged to have a job. The same privilege I felt about getting to go to College.

Once again; toughen up.

NickDrake

Ya spot on there. Perhaps the SU Education officer can now respond with here opinion on the issue and what she has done so students can give an opinion of whether or now her performance is satisfactory on that matter.

That will bring us nicely back on topic.

I am sure though that she has done her utmost on this issue. But a few TP students might have a few issue to get off their chests.

fullback4glin

Dante on Fire wrote: »

Teaching practice requires more than finishing at 4 on a friday and starting again @ 9 on a monday

if you were ever on t.p you would understand that the weekend belongs to a folder for the next week - serious work covering other teachers classes who at the end of the day get extra pay for being one class short

after nine weeks of expenses to and from the school and project materials -not found in the school- you are going to be a bit bitter

like spending 600 on a module in college -'JUST TO DO IT!'

Thank You. Plus €785 for a semester that we're not going to be even in the college for ( or €1570 for the year).

I honestly cannot understand how a student on TP can hold down a weekend job and even more baffling as to how somebody that has never done TP can say that you should be able to

ninty9er

Dante on Fire wrote: »

what about visibility as in are the union seen enough

Hello chicken!......oh hello egg!..... related? :)

In terms of visibility, it's about the Union being seen, not it's officers. You can be sure that steps have been taken to increase the visibility of the Union. The website is being updated regularly, the Facebook is now a page with updates, as opposed to a group that didn't show in feeds, 2 of us went to the Library last Thursday with Nitelink timetables and handed them out, as well as putting a message to the effect of "WTF are you doing leaving your laptop there unattended!" on unattended laptops.

We'd love to get to College Court and Elm Park and Brookfield and Kilmurry, and we probably will, but the truth is that Ruán is rarely out of the office before 8pm, being someone who's ordinarily in before 10.

I see what you're getting at in terms of visibility getting students in, but a line must be drawn where effectiveness is more important than visibility. If for example, spending the day in the office drafting letters and emails, takign phonecalls and being there for students for an hour or 2, along with attending committees (which I believe all have a role to play in campus and experiential development) that weren't really viewed as all that important in the past, means that we're actually doing our jobs, then I'd rather stand over that when asked "where were you?". If we're being visible 4-5 hours a day, then questions will have to be raised about what the feck we're actually being paid for. The Union is in the centre of campus, numerous campaigns will begin soon following marketing consultation this semester, and we're taking a long term view of what the Union can do, as opposed to what it is doing. Along with that we've looked at how to get the message out, and I do believe you're right about the estates, it is part of our plan for the year.

I really like and enjoy my job, but there are some awful parts like this evening and tomorrow going to a student's funeral that are expected of you which can really be emotionally draining.

pervertedcoffee

Just a quick note on getting student's involved in the SU - it'd be nice to be told how to get involved. I know, I know, be a class rep but how many first year students are there? (I'm in first year) How many class rep positions are there?

In fairness I did see some posters for Welfare - but to be honest I don't like fundraising. Otherwise, while I'm sure there must be other ways to get involved I haven't heard about them so...? I'd very much like to help out but I don't know what to do - I do write for An Focal but I'd like to help out in other ways too.

Personally I think the SU is doing a great job. If I ever have a problem I'm sure I'll find some help and in all my (relatively few) dealings with the personnel they're lovely but if ye do want more involvement let us know how please.

mrmanire

fullback4glin wrote: »

Thank You. Plus €785 for a semester that we're not going to be even in the college for ( or €1570 for the year).

I honestly cannot understand how a student on TP can hold down a weekend job and even more baffling as to how somebody that has never done TP can say that you should be able to

Whinge whinge

pervertedcoffee

mrmanire wrote: »

Whinge whinge

ire

 –noun intense anger; wrath.
[dictionary.com]

I think someone chose their user name well.

bazkennedy

pervertedcoffee wrote: »

Just a quick note on getting student's involved in the SU - it'd be nice to be told how to get involved

They are loads of ways to get involved. Obviously becoming a class rep is the most obvious, also joining a club or society, or becoming a write for an focal. You can get involved in any of the numerous campaigns (i'm sure the CSO would love to get some volunteers)

Turn up to Class Rep Council (you don't have to be a rep) or better still, one of the Union's General Meetings

ninty9er

How to get involved:

We've set up an email address that was publicised in An Focal. It's sugetinvolved@ul.ie. All you do is tell us what you're interested in and there'll be something you can do in general. This new email address is on the new SU flyers in the new SU An Focal stands.

I do take the point though. We had one guy last year volunteer to do estate and riverbank cleanup after RAG week to appease his village manager about something or other. He calls in and says hi from time to time and asks if there's anything that needs to be done. It sounds too simple to be the way it is, but it is that simple.

cson

mrmanire wrote: »

Whinge whinge

You could at least try to further the discussion rather than throwing petty insults around. Start a thread about TP for all I care, because all this is doing is throwing this thread - a very valid one at that - off topic.

Btw, I take it the SU is responsible for that big **** off xmas tree in the courtyard? Very nice

rmacm

mrmanire wrote: »

Whinge whinge

Here's a question for yourself and NickDrake. Would either of you work for free?

Screw that, perhaps students teachers do have a lot to be grateful for but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect to be paid for their work.

ninty9er

cson wrote: »

Btw, I take it the SU is responsible for that big **** off xmas tree in the courtyard? Very nice

Yup, we're getting an excellent response. though Ruan organised it, thanks is also due to the rest of the student centre community who contributed to the cost.

Zeouterlimits

ninty9er wrote: »

Yup, we're getting an excellent response. though Ruan organised it, thanks is also due to the rest of the student centre community who contributed to the cost.

Yeah, I love it.
Much better set up than last year.

jkeire

Okay so, I’ve scanned through this very quickly and decided to throw in my bit. I didn’t get really into the SU until halfway through my second semester in UL. As regards the infamous SU clique, it’s all a load of rubbish. We are much less of a clique and more good friends. I remember last year I was called a part of the ‘class reps clique’ by someone who went for a Sabbat position and I just think it’s a load of old ****e!
Also, facebook has been hit lately with a good few SU related pages, which of course helps with visibility. Also, earlier in the semester, when I was remarkably less busy, I put up a few posters around for Derek. And has anyone not seen the huge feck-off Christmas tree the SU got put up in the courtyard? I think it really boosts the feel of the place.
As regards getting involve, I would echo what was already said about joining clubs and socs, class reps, join a working group, even dress up like a giant sperm and walk around if you want to!! Also, you can join anytime. I wasn’t a class rep until the middle of last semester and by the end of the academic year, I counted a lot of reps amongst my closest friends. 20 of us even went to Spain together for the holidays.
Also, as people, the SU are genuinely lovely, approachable people. You really couldn’t meet nicer and they do their work well.
I cannot comment on TP or COOP or other stuff along those lines, but the SU do some great work and I think those who are so ready to bash them may want to get themselves a little bit more informed before they make comments.

Dante on Fire

ninty9er wrote: »

In terms of visibility, it's about the Union being seen, not it's officers. You can be sure that steps have been taken to increase the visibility of the Union. The website is being updated regularly, the Facebook is now a page with updates, as opposed to a group that didn't show in feeds, 2 of us went to the Library last Thursday with Nitelink timetables and handed them out, as well as putting a message to the effect of "WTF are you doing leaving your laptop there unattended!" on unattended laptops.

We'd love to get to College Court and Elm Park and Brookfield and Kilmurry, and we probably will, but the truth is that Ruán is rarely out of the office before 8pm, being someone who's ordinarily in before 10.

I see what you're getting at in terms of visibility getting students in, but a line must be drawn where effectiveness is more important than visibility. If for example, spending the day in the office drafting letters and emails, takign phonecalls and being there for students for an hour or 2, along with attending committees (which I believe all have a role to play in campus and experiential development) that weren't really viewed as all that important in the past, means that we're actually doing our jobs, then I'd rather stand over that when asked "where were you?". If we're being visible 4-5 hours a day, then questions will have to be raised about what the feck we're actually being paid for. The Union is in the centre of campus, numerous campaigns will begin soon following marketing consultation this semester, and we're taking a long term view of what the Union can do, as opposed to what it is doing. Along with that we've looked at how to get the message out, and I do believe you're right about the estates, it is part of our plan for the year.

I really like and enjoy my job, but there are some awful parts like this evening and tomorrow going to a student's funeral that are expected of you which can really be emotionally draining.

when i said the chicken egg thing - i was'nt having a go or taking the piss
i know how hard it is but i was highlighting the difficulty it is when your caught between the rock ant the hard place mntioned above. how do you reach out to such a large group - facebook and blogs are great yeah and out in the estates should work to great effect and i hope it goes well for ye ( i saw Ruans survey as well which is great well done! -the one thing i would complain about is the lack of campaigns this semester i have heard that mental health week went unnoticed?

i mean i dont want to sound horrible but i joined the campaigns working group this semester and am only an hour away and have not been contacted since i signed wk 1 or 2 i believe and despite being on t.p i would still be part of it -but i have heard that there were no campaigns at all until week 8 -
in my eyes unacceptable - especially when the union is making move to remove a lot of the duties of the campaigns and services role in fact i heard getting rid of it altogether but am open to correction!

i dont want to be that moaner but if anyone knows who i am you know the reason with my dissatisfaction with that office. - that office is the MAIN one with regard to visibility and awareness for the students of U.L

ninty9er

Dante on Fire wrote: »

when i said the chicken egg thing - i was'nt having a go or taking the piss
i know how hard it is but i was highlighting the difficulty it is when your caught between the rock ant the hard place mntioned above. how do you reach out to such a large group - facebook and blogs are great yeah and out in the estates should work to great effect and i hope it goes well for ye ( i saw Ruans survey as well which is great well done! -the one thing i would complain about is the lack of campaigns this semester i have heard that mental health week went unnoticed?

i mean i dont want to sound horrible but i joined the campaigns working group this semester and am only an hour away and have not been contacted since i signed wk 1 or 2 i believe and despite being on t.p i would still be part of it -but i have heard that there were no campaigns at all until week 8 -
in my eyes unacceptable - especially when the union is making move to remove a lot of the duties of the campaigns and services role in fact i heard getting rid of it altogether but am open to correction!



i dont want to be that moaner but if anyone knows who i am you know the reason with my dissatisfaction with that office. - that office is the MAIN one with regard to visibility and awareness for the students of U.L

Campaigns haven't been as visible as we would like as we had to pull the fees campaign at the last minute due to the announcement on the reviewed programme for government.

Should the government collapse and fees come back on the agenda, this campaign is ready to go at a week's notice.

I'll take some of the blame for mental health week, but An Focal was utilised and we've been putting a massive continuous focus behind mental health promotion with class reps addressed last Tuesday and an email to C& S committees in the next few days. This is particularly at this time of the year, though the weather has attacked one of our campaign materials. I have taken a different approach with it by telling it as it is that there have been a number of attempted suicides and we need people to look out for each other. Suicide isn't an individual issue, it's a community one and I'm going to be pushing that with Fergal, who to be fair to him has put an awful lot of effort into organising training and the like, but availability this semester just wasn't there.

But as you say, visibility is difficult, especially when there's a large minority who just don't care, even if they do know how we operate. It's unfortunate, but they are still represented at committees, at GA, at Student Affairs, at Community Forum (generally where these people are condemned, and the Union agrees as it's not fair to other students)

There's so much more I'd like to do, but for that I'd need money, and it just isn't there at the moment. There's a whole lot that goes on that people don't see (as you'll know, but just for others) which takes time from those areas that we'd prefer to spend time on, but firefighting will always come as an element of the job.