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50 Million Africans -EU

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    #62
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    PaulieD wrote: »
    Love of ones country. Tis a terrible crime.
    nationalism is responsible for terrible crimes, it needs to be kept in check

    its a short path from "love for ones country" to gas chambers, i highly recommend reading Nial Fegusons "War of the World a new history of 20th century" the root cause behind all the bloodshed was racism and nationalism not communist/fascist ideologies which fed on racism/nationalism

    he also touches on immigration in europe and aging population btw

    PaulieD wrote: »
    Thats one hell of a claim to make. His article is factually correct. The majority of Nigerians were unemployed during the boom.

    as i said, asylum seekers are not allowed to work while they wait on decision

    blame the government for taking years to decide


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    #63
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    Scofflaw wrote: »
    Pity the world will be running out of oil by the time we're retiring, eh?

    Mind you, it's true that that's an alternative route. That's why the Japanese are so heavily into robots - to avoid having to import foreigners.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw

    yeh

    tho as was mentioned in another thread i wont worry about oil running our in our lifetimes

    theres always nuclear which can last few thousand of years with current tech and supplies (maybe they crack fusion by then)

    eitherway thats going offtopic


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    #64
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    PaulieD wrote: »
    Love of ones country. Tis a terrible crime..

    It is when it's hijacked and used as a vehicle for a superiority complex.


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    #65
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    yeh

    tho as was mentioned in another thread i wont worry about oil running our in our lifetimes

    theres always nuclear which can last few thousand of years with current tech and supplies (maybe they crack fusion by then)

    either way thats going offtopic

    Not entirely, since it's a route that's open to Europe - as long as there's enough energy, that is - to substitute technology for manpower, thereby reducing the need for immigration.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


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    #66
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    O'Morris wrote: »
    It's a pity you wouldn't read the article I linked because if you did you would see that controlled immigration would not even come close to solving Europe's ageing population problem. The numbers of people required each year to maintain the dependence ratio would be so high that the costs of the proposed solution would outweigh the benefits.
    OK, let's take that rather simplistic analysis and accept, for the sake of argument, that immigration won't help.

    What do you propose, in order to address the problems inherent in a shrinking and aging population, while keeping borders firmly shut?
    I think it might have something to do with wanting Europe to still be a European continent in a hundred years from now.
    I'm sure there's a version of reality in which that's not a xenophobic statement, but it's not the version of reality that I inhabit.


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    #67
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    PaulieD wrote: »
    Opposed to your orgasimic reaction to the news. More "diversity", "enrichment", and "colour" than you can shake a stick at. No doubt you would see this as a most welcome development.

    But, regardless of my supposed reaction, we've established that what was suggested in the OP isn't in fact going to happen.

    You've a problem with "colour"?


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    #68
    PaulieD
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 932 ✭✭✭PaulieD


    Nodin wrote: »
    But, regardless of my supposed reaction, we've established that what was suggested in the OP isn't in fact going to happen.

    It is happening, Nodin. Look at the number of africans entering the EU. We will easily hit the 56 million jackpot by 2050.


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    #69
    O'Morris
    Closed Accounts Posts: 619 ✭✭✭O'Morris


    oscarBravo wrote:
    What do you propose, in order to address the problems inherent in a shrinking and aging population, while keeping borders firmly shut?

    I propose that we increase the working age, provide incentives for people to have more offspring, make people in prison and people on the dole work for their living and invest heavily in labour-saving technology.

    oscarBravo wrote:
    I'm sure there's a version of reality in which that's not a xenophobic statement, but it's not the version of reality that I inhabit.

    I'm just trying to get inside these people's minds and try to understand why they feel the way they feel. I think many of them see themselves in the position of the old Roman in 400AD Rome hoping that his city will still be a Roman city in 500AD.


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    #70
    meditraitor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,207 ✭✭✭meditraitor


    PaulieD wrote: »
    It is happening, Nodin. Look at the number of africans entering the EU. We will easily hit the 56 million jackpot by 2050.


    We all came from africa :)


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    #71
    PaulieD
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 932 ✭✭✭PaulieD


    meditraitor wrote: »
    Not the majority, Just a higher percentage when compared to other immigrants communities


    No, the majority. 62% is a majority.
    meditraitor wrote: »
    I get what your saying and it does imply that the nigerians are not giving as much as others to our country.


    Id go further and claim they are a drain on the public purse.
    meditraitor wrote: »
    Although its not true of all the nigerians and it should be noted that a majority of Nigerians in this country are working/contributing

    No, once again, 62% of them were unemployed during the boom. Thats a majority.

    Officially, it is claimed that there are around 28,000 Nigerians in Ireland.

    According to the CSO, 3,024 Nigerian families are in receipt of rent allowance. Now, lets presume that the average Nigerian family consist of two parents and two children(very conservative, africans have large families). So, 12,096 Nigerians are in receipt of rent allowance. Almost half the total number resident in the state. Thats a staggering figure.


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    #72
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    PaulieD wrote: »
    It is happening, Nodin. Look at the number of africans entering the EU. We will easily hit the 56 million jackpot by 2050.
    Not to worry - an additional 200 million Europeans will have been born in the meantime, so we'll still easily outnumber them.
    O'Morris wrote: »
    I propose that we increase the working age, provide incentives for people to have more offspring, make people in prison and people on the dole work for their living and invest heavily in labour-saving technology.
    Helpful measures all, albeit not necessarily popular.

    If it were possible to reduce the impact of those measures by supplementing them with immigration, wouldn't you accept that that would be a useful balance to strike?
    I'm just trying to get inside these people's minds and try to understand why they feel the way they feel. I think many of them see themselves in the position of the old Roman in 400AD Rome hoping that his city will still be a Roman city in 500AD.
    How'd that work out for him?


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    #73
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    O'Morris wrote: »
    I'm just trying to get inside these people's minds and try to understand why they feel the way they feel. I think many of them see themselves in the position of the old Roman in 400AD Rome hoping that his city will still be a Roman city in 500AD.

    Well, seeing as Roman citizenship was extended to the whole Empire in 200 AD or so, and auxillaries were near always granted as reward for service, I'd imagine he'd notice no substantive difference. There would of course be the usual human tendency to romanticise the past and imagine a time when there was 'just us romans'.......


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    #74
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    PaulieD wrote: »
    According to the CSO, 3,024 Nigerian families are in receipt of rent allowance.
    I can't find that on the CSO website. Can you link me to it? Ta.


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    #75
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    I'm just trying to get inside these people's minds and try to understand why they feel the way they feel. I think many of them see themselves in the position of the old Roman in 400AD Rome hoping that his city will still be a Roman city in 500AD.
    How'd that work out for him?

    Given that the last Western Emperor was deposed in 476 AD, and the city became subject to the Ostrogoths, I would say not all that well, really. I'm not sure whether there are really any lessons to be learned from that, though.

    amused,
    Scofflaw


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    #76
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Scofflaw wrote: »
    Given that the last Western Emperor was deposed in 476 AD, and the city became subject to the Ostrogoths, I would say not all that well, really. I'm not sure whether there are really any lessons to be learned from that, though.

    amused,
    Scofflaw

    'Ware ye the Ostrogoths'?


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    #77
    PaulieD
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 932 ✭✭✭PaulieD


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    I can't find that on the CSO website. Can you link me to it? Ta.

    No problem. Il go one better and link to a document that breaks down those in receipt of rent allowance by nationality.

    http://historical-debates.oireachtas.ie/D/0658/D.0658.200807030112.html


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    #78
    meditraitor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,207 ✭✭✭meditraitor


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    I can't find that on the CSO website. Can you link me to it? Ta.


    http://www.cso.ie/Census/..%5Ccensus%5Cdocuments%5CPROFILES%20OF%20NATIONALITIES%201-5.pdf

    I found some info here
    Economic status
    The percentage of Nigerians aged 15 or over at
    work in 2006 was the lowest of all groups featured
    at 38 per cent, though this splits unevenly between
    males (50%) and females (30%). In comparison
    with the other nationalities profiled, a relatively high
    number were unemployed or looking for their first
    job (31%). About one in five females was looking
    after the home and 17 per cent were students. The
    dominant industry was health and social work; one
    in five was working as a professional.
    Among the top occupations were care assistants
    and attendants (11%), security guards (7%), sales
    assistants (7%) and doctors (6%).

    Its not good reading but


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    #79
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    PaulieD wrote: »
    No problem. Il go one better and link to a document that breaks down those in receipt of rent allowance by nationality.

    http://historical-debates.oireachtas.ie/D/0658/D.0658.200807030112.html

    According to that, theres a few hundred more Brits claiming than Nigerians as of 27th June 2008.

    Why are you focussing on the Nigerians?


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    #80
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    PaulieD wrote: »
    No problem. Il go one better and link to a document that breaks down those in receipt of rent allowance by nationality.

    http://historical-debates.oireachtas.ie/D/0658/D.0658.200807030112.html
    Thank you, but you said it was according to the CSO, not Mary Hanafin.


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    #81
    PaulieD
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 932 ✭✭✭PaulieD


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    Thank you, but you said it was according to the CSO, not Mary Hanafin.

    Where did she get her figures from?


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    #82
    meditraitor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,207 ✭✭✭meditraitor


    Nodin wrote: »
    According to that, theres a few hundred more Brits claiming than Nigerians as of 27th June 2008.

    Why are you focussing on the Nigerians?

    Because there are 110,000 brits in Ireland and only 16,000 Nigerians and yet almost the same amount out of work....

    Shit shit shit, went and got myself dragged into this crap again....


    Of home I think


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    #83
    BlitzKrieg
    Registered Users Posts: 14,687 ✭✭✭✭BlitzKrieg


    PaulieD wrote: »
    No problem. Il go one better and link to a document that breaks down those in receipt of rent allowance by nationality.

    http://historical-debates.oireachtas.ie/D/0658/D.0658.200807030112.html

    so you leave out that

    a) the figure is declining

    b) its smaller then the number of british citizens on rent allowance and that figure is rising.


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    #84
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    meditraitor wrote: »
    http://www.cso.ie/Census/..%5Ccensus%5Cdocuments%5CPROFILES%20OF%20NATIONALITIES%201-5.pdf

    I found some info here
    I found that one too. It doesn't mention rent allowance.


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    #85
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    PaulieD wrote: »
    Where did she get her figures from?
    I would imagine from the department of which she is the minister. Why do you think she got them from the CSO?


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    #86
    PaulieD
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 932 ✭✭✭PaulieD


    Nodin wrote: »
    According to that, theres a few hundred more Brits claiming than Nigerians as of 27th June 2008.

    Why are you focussing on the Nigerians?

    As it is a reciprocal agreement between Ireland and the UK. There would be similar numbers of Irish citizens in receipt of rent allowance over there. Not so with Nigeria. Furthermore, these people are not EU citizens, why the hell are we subsidising them?


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    #87
    PaulieD
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 932 ✭✭✭PaulieD


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    I would imagine from the department of which she is the minister. Why do you think she got them from the CSO?

    I originally got the figures from the CSO. I linked to a document breaking down the nationalities of those in receipt of rent allowance. Ive danced this jig with you before, I am not going to do it again. If you dispute the figures, please give a reason as to why.

    Per capita, Nigerians are more likely to be in receipt of rent allowance than any other nationality. Thats a fact.


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    #88
    PaulieD
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 932 ✭✭✭PaulieD


    BlitzKrieg wrote: »
    so you leave out that

    a) the figure is declining.

    Probably got fixed up with social housing.
    BlitzKrieg wrote: »
    b) its smaller then the number of british citizens on rent allowance and that figure is rising.

    Yes, a lot of other nationalities have copped onto the fact that once you get British citizenship, you are entitled to Irish social welfare. :)


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    #89
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    PaulieD wrote: »
    Furthermore, these people are not EU citizens, why the hell are we subsidising them?
    Since when did you have to be an EU citizen to be entitled to rent supplement?
    PaulieD wrote: »
    I originally got the figures from the CSO. I linked to a document breaking down the nationalities of those in receipt of rent allowance. Ive danced this jig with you before, I am not going to do it again. If you dispute the figures, please give a reason as to why.
    I'm not disputing the figures, I'd just like to see a CSO source for them.
    Per capita, Nigerians are more likely to be in receipt of rent allowance than any other nationality. Thats a fact.
    Why do you suppose that is?


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    #90
    PaulieD
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 932 ✭✭✭PaulieD


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    Since when did you have to be an EU citizen to be entitled to rent supplement?

    Dont they have to fund themselves?
    oscarBravo wrote: »
    Why do you suppose that is?

    We are mugus.


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    #91
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    PaulieD wrote: »
    Dont they have to fund themselves?
    Not according to the DSFA, no.
    We are mugus.
    Assuming you mean "the victims of scammers", you're basically accusing all Nigerians in receipt of rent supplement of obtaining it fraudulently.

    Once again, I'm sure there's a version of reality where that's not blatant racism, but it's not mine.


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