Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

50 Million Africans -EU

Options
1246

Comments

  • Options
    #92
    bill_ashmount
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,047 ✭✭✭bill_ashmount


    oscarBravo wrote: »

    Another post from you not answering any questions.

    What question have I avoided? How to pay for pensions, do you want me to come up with a new economic model now to answer that for you? I can't.

    Why don't you answer the question, who pays for the immigrants you bring in now? The answer is more immigrants and more.


  • Options
    #93
    bill_ashmount
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,047 ✭✭✭bill_ashmount


    Nodin wrote: »
    But, regardless of my supposed reaction, we've established that what was suggested in the OP isn't in fact going to happen.

    No we haven't? The current figures are just under 2,000,000 people legally immigrate to the EU every year. This means in 25 years you have 50 million. This doesn't count the millions of illegals throughout europe.


  • Options
    #94
    bill_ashmount
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,047 ✭✭✭bill_ashmount


    Scofflaw wrote: »
    Mind you, it's true that that's an alternative route. That's why the Japanese are so heavily into robots - to avoid having to import foreigners.

    I look forward to seeing how Japan deals with their population question. The UN wants them to take in 10,000,000 people over the next few years but they won't accept this. Will be interesting to see how it plays out. South Korea will be the same.


  • Options
    #95
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    bill_ashmount wrote: »
    No we haven't? The current figures are just under 2,000,000 people legally immigrate to the EU every year. This means in 25 years you have 50 million. This doesn't count the millions of illegals throughout europe.

    1. the OP had 50 million Africans (see thread title) - so you need to show that all of the 2 million you're talking about are African. I think you'll find that they aren't.

    2. Immigration figures are meaningless as raw numbers. A better measure would be (successful) citizenship applications, since otherwise those immigrants won't remain.

    regards,
    Scofflaw


  • Options
    #96
    bill_ashmount
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,047 ✭✭✭bill_ashmount


    Scofflaw wrote: »
    1. the OP had 50 million Africans (see thread title) - so you need to show that all of the 2 million you're talking about are African. I think you'll find that they aren't.

    regards,
    Scofflaw

    I know, I'm on about numbers, not origin.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #97
    bonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭bonkey


    bill_ashmount wrote: »
    I know, I'm on about numbers, not origin.

    You used these numbers to suggest that we haven't established that the OP was talking about a situation was wasn't going to occur.

    The OP was talking about Africans.


  • Options
    #98
    bill_ashmount
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,047 ✭✭✭bill_ashmount


    bonkey wrote: »
    You used these numbers to suggest that we haven't established that the OP was talking about a situation was wasn't going to occur.

    The OP was talking about Africans.

    Yes I know. I clarified my position before you decided to post again.

    This thread has gone from africans to immigration, to population decline, to pensions, to japan etc...


  • Options
    #99
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    bill_ashmount wrote: »
    What question have I avoided? How to pay for pensions, do you want me to come up with a new economic model now to answer that for you? I can't.
    So you don't know what the solution is, but anything's better than immigration? Why is immigration so intrinsically bad that it's a worse option than any putative solution that you can't even come up with?
    Why don't you answer the question, who pays for the immigrants you bring in now? The answer is more immigrants and more.
    Who pays for the immigrants? Their employers. Why are you assuming that every immigrant is going to be entitled to state benefits? Why are you assuming that every immigrant is going to become a citizen, settle down and retire?


  • Options
    #100
    PaulieD
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 932 ✭✭✭PaulieD


    Scofflaw wrote: »
    2. Immigration figures are meaningless as raw numbers. A better measure would be (successful) citizenship applications, since otherwise those immigrants won't remain.

    regards,
    Scofflaw

    Yes, all those third generation Turks without German citizenship are queueing up to leave europe.:rolleyes:

    Once they are in, its very difficult to get shot of them. But of course, you already know this.


  • Options
    #101
    PaulieD
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 932 ✭✭✭PaulieD


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    Why are you assuming that every immigrant is going to be entitled to state benefits? Why are you assuming that every immigrant is going to become a citizen, settle down and retire?

    A more pertinent point would be, why do you think the opposite holds true?

    I am going to say what a lot of people are thinking, do you believe europe benefits from african mass immigration?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #102
    View
    Registered Users Posts: 3,872 ✭✭✭View


    PaulieD wrote: »
    Yes, all those third generation Turks without German citizenship are queueing up to leave europe.:rolleyes:

    Germany is "Home" to most, if not all, third generation Turkish-Germans, so they are not in a rush to go somewhere else. They are entitled to German citizenship if they want it.


  • Options
    #103
    bill_ashmount
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,047 ✭✭✭bill_ashmount


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    Who pays for the immigrants? Their employers. Why are you assuming that every immigrant is going to be entitled to state benefits? Why are you assuming that every immigrant is going to become a citizen, settle down and retire?

    You're just a bore at this stage twisting every single sentence. Go back to throwing your racism card around like a little child.


  • Options
    #104
    bill_ashmount
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,047 ✭✭✭bill_ashmount


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    So you don't know what the solution is, but anything's better than immigration? Why is immigration so intrinsically bad that it's a worse option than any putative solution that you can't even come up with?

    Again making up stuff for your own arguments.


  • Options
    #105
    meglome
    Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    I'm amused that some of you think you're not xenophobic. Funnily seems to be the anti-Lisbon people, weird that.

    Strange it keeps being turned towards Africans, you'd almost feel that it was a racist thing or something.

    Immigration should be controlled and it should be discussed rationally, doesn't look like the latter is going to happen.


  • Options
    #106
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    PaulieD wrote: »
    A more pertinent point would be, why do you think the opposite holds true?
    I'm not sure why that's more pertinent. I'm reasonably sure that not every immigrant to this country has applied for citizenship. I'm even willing to go out on a limb and suggest that many immigrants return to their home countries.

    If you have evidence that everybody who has ever immigrated here has applied for and received citizenship, please feel free to produce it.
    I am going to say what a lot of people are thinking, do you believe europe benefits from african mass immigration?
    How do you know what a lot of people are thinking? And who said anything about mass immigration?


  • Options
    #107
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    bill_ashmount wrote: »
    You're just a bore at this stage twisting every single sentence. Go back to throwing your racism card around like a little child.
    bill_ashmount wrote: »
    Again making up stuff for your own arguments.
    If you're not interested in having a grown-up discussion, you always have the option of not posting.


  • Options
    #108
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    I came across this article just now. It reminded me of this thread, for some reason.


  • Options
    #109
    bill_ashmount
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,047 ✭✭✭bill_ashmount


    meglome wrote: »
    I'm amused that some of you think you're not xenophobic. Funnily seems to be the anti-Lisbon people, weird that.

    Strange it keeps being turned towards Africans, you'd almost feel that it was a racist thing or something.

    Immigration should be controlled and it should be discussed rationally, doesn't look like the latter is going to happen.

    Definitely not with the likes of you involved. Anyone who dares question mass immigration is branded a racist or xenophbic. Interesting that you don't level that accusation at every other country in the world who controls immigration? I wonder why that is?


  • Options
    #110
    bill_ashmount
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,047 ✭✭✭bill_ashmount


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    If you're not interested in having a grown-up discussion, you always have the option of not posting.

    Ditto.


  • Options
    #111
    Flamed Diving
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    I only just read the first page of this thread. Could someone explain to me why people are still discussing this topic when the OP has now been torn to shreds?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #112
    PaulieD
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 932 ✭✭✭PaulieD


    meglome wrote: »
    I'm amused that some of you think you're not xenophobic. Funnily seems to be the anti-Lisbon people, weird that..

    I take it that this is aimed at me. If you want to say something, say it.
    meglome wrote: »
    Strange it keeps being turned towards Africans, you'd almost feel that it was a racist thing or something..

    Its not being turned towards Africans. I have shown that Nigerians are overwhelmingly reliant on social welfare.

    -62% of them were unemployed during the boom years.
    -Nearly 50% of them are in receipt of rent allowance.
    -The abuse of our asylum system.

    Now, before you start labelling anyone who brings the issue up as a racist, heres one to ponder over your cafe latte this brisk November morn. Nearly 1 in 250 Mauritian citizens are resident in the Irish state. Thats a pretty staggering figure, yet you never hear anyone complain about Mauritians. They are African too. There are three Mauritian families in receipt of rent allowance. A whole three. Compare that to the 3,024 Nigerian families in receipt of rent allowance.

    Why the hell are Nigerians flying half way across the globe to claim asylum in Ireland. Ireland receives the second largest number of Nigerian asylum seekers in europe. Why? 99.4% of them are refused, why are they still here?

    Ireland received the second highest number of asylum applications in main industrialised countries from nationals of Nigeria in 2004. The recognition rate at first instance for 2004 is as follows:

    Ireland 0.6%; Netherlands 0.6%; Austria 0.3%; Spain 0.1%

    Less than 1%, therefore, of all Nigerian national asylum seekers succeed at first instance in the European Union member states that receive most Nigerian applications.

    http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/PR07000171

    meglome wrote: »
    Immigration should be controlled and it should be discussed rationally, doesn't look like the latter is going to happen.

    Neither is the former.


  • Options
    #113
    PaulieD
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 932 ✭✭✭PaulieD


    Flamed Diving wrote: »
    I only just read the first page of this thread. Could someone explain to me why people are still discussing this topic when the OP has now been torn to shreds?

    If you look at the number of africans emigrating to europe, you will see that we are bang on course to reach the 50 million by 2050.


  • Options
    #114
    bonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭bonkey


    PaulieD wrote: »
    If you look at the number of africans emigrating to europe, you will see that we are bang on course to reach the 50 million by 2050.

    I thought we had established that we are bang on course to reach 50 million immigrants, not 50 million African immigrants?

    Lets not mention, either, that this assumes 40 years of holding to the same pattern.


  • Options
    #115
    bonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭bonkey



    Incidentally...

    Guys....the snide remarks and petty sniping at each other stops here and now.

    Its your choice how that is achieved


  • Options
    #116
    PaulieD
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 932 ✭✭✭PaulieD


    bonkey wrote: »
    I thought we had established that we are bang on course to reach 50 million immigrants, not 50 million African immigrants?

    Lets not mention, either, that this assumes 40 years of holding to the same pattern.

    I will try and produce some stats and figures on the number of africans emigrating into EU states.


  • Options
    #117
    Flamed Diving
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    PaulieD wrote: »
    If you look at the number of africans emigrating to europe, you will see that we are bang on course to reach the 50 million by 2050.

    Even if your projection of 50m is correct (and population projections are known for their accuracy), that still doesn't avoid the remaining 99% of the post which was ripped to shreds.


  • Options
    #118
    PaulieD
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 932 ✭✭✭PaulieD


    Flamed Diving wrote: »
    Even if your projection of 50m is correct (and population projections are known for their accuracy), that still doesn't avoid the remaining 99% of the post which was ripped to shreds.

    I only care about the numbers. Incidentally, I am having great difficulty finding the figures for African immigrants who entered the EU over the past number of years. In the words of Bertie Ahern, is anyone able to give us a dig out?


  • Options
    #119
    Flamed Diving
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    Eurostat?


  • Options
    #120
    ro09
    Closed Accounts Posts: 94 ✭✭ro09


    Captain Furball wrote: »
    I have read on many sites that over the coming years 50 million Africans will be allowed into the EU for work and will also be allowed social benefits.Europe's population is getting old, so we need all these Africans,so it says.They will be given a blue card, something very similar to the American green card.

    50 MILLION PEOPLE
    Personally I don't want Ireland to be like the uk.
    Welcome to Europe.....

    I thought the 50 million were already in Ireland, it seems like that anyway. Have nothing against coloured people but you have to draw the line somewhere and with the present government there doesn't seem to be one.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #121
    marco_polo
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 10,079 Mod ✭✭✭✭marco_polo


    PaulieD wrote: »
    I take it that this is aimed at me. If you want to say something, say it.



    Its not being turned towards Africans. I have shown that Nigerians are overwhelmingly reliant on social welfare.

    -62% of them were unemployed during the boom years.
    -Nearly 50% of them are in receipt of rent allowance.
    -The abuse of our asylum system.

    Now, before you start labelling anyone who brings the issue up as a racist, heres one to ponder over your cafe latte this brisk November morn. Nearly 1 in 250 Mauritian citizens are resident in the Irish state. Thats a pretty staggering figure, yet you never hear anyone complain about Mauritians. They are African too. There are three Mauritian families in receipt of rent allowance. A whole three. Compare that to the 3,024 Nigerian families in receipt of rent allowance.

    Why the hell are Nigerians flying half way across the globe to claim asylum in Ireland. Ireland receives the second largest number of Nigerian asylum seekers in europe. Why? 99.4% of them are refused, why are they still here?

    Ireland received the second highest number of asylum applications in main industrialised countries from nationals of Nigeria in 2004. The recognition rate at first instance for 2004 is as follows:

    Ireland 0.6%; Netherlands 0.6%; Austria 0.3%; Spain 0.1%

    Less than 1%, therefore, of all Nigerian national asylum seekers succeed at first instance in the European Union member states that receive most Nigerian applications.

    http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/PR07000171

    Neither is the former.

    What needs to be pointed out to both you and Kevin Myers is that not working != unemployed (Ask any housewife or student)

    Also, since the Irish government does not generally go around issuing work permits and PPSN numbers to failed assylum seekers. The myth that the population increases are due to these remaining on can be put to bed.

    http://www.cso.ie/releasespublications/documents/labour_market/current/ppsn.pdf

    The 9,522 PPSNs granted to Nigerians nationals in the years 2003-2006 corrosponds quite nicely to the increase in residents from 8,969 to 16,300 between the 2002 census and the 2006 census.


Advertisement