Lecturing Salaries and some questions about lecturing

Jizzer

I am working for 10 years in private sector. I am looking at going back to college to lecture.

Most Assistant Lecturer jobs I see are paying much less than what I earn currently.

What sort of money can one get after working 10 years in private sector and returning to lecturing?

Why do people go back to lecture? Is it financial? Or the time off?

Is there much money to be made in lecturing? What is a maximum salary for a permanent full-time lecturer?

angryhungry

Maximum salary at the moment for Lecturer is just under 80k; if you get promoted eventually to Senior Lecturer or Professor you could earn up to 120k - but of course that will probably change with the impending Budget.

Starting salary depends on how long you've had a PhD for, number and kinds of publications, experience, ability to win grants, etc. If you don't have a PhD there's really no point in applying for any lecturing positions - unless you're in an area desperate for people with industry experience, but even that's unlikely to be enough today, what with all the overqualified people already out there.

'Why do people go back to lecture? Is it financial? Or the time off?'
:rolleyes: Most lecturers I know are there because they have an elite level of expertise in a field - as demonstrated in one way by the PhD. Essentially, lecturing is what allows us to make a living from our life passion. The decent pay is a bonus but not the motivation.

As for the 'time off'....what?! Lecturing - and even the attendant marking - is only about 20 - 30 % of the job. We have plenty of admin - especially with the freeze on recruitment of staff - and are expected to be research active year round, which means spending much of the summer traveling to give presentations at conferences and writing up papers / articles / books whenever possible. Time off is no more than it would be in any other job, and it's restricted to the non-teaching parts of the year.

I don't mean to be negative, but it seems like you're simply not aware of exactly how cut-throat the academic job market is at the moment - and realistically, if you're still really, really interested, the best thing to do is try to get some part-time hours somewhere first, see how you like it, and then see if it's still what you really want. Most people start lecturing / tutoring part-time during their postgrad training. Financially it would be incredibly risky to quit a fulltime private sector job in order to be a lecturer in this market.

smcgiff

You'd be looking at approx €42k going up in increments each year.

Going by the above poster it looks as if real life experience doesn't seem to be as important as a Phd. This doesn't seem ideal to me, but that's a different discussion. I will say that with my employer/manager hat on I'm not impressed with Unis employing inexperienced Phd grads, that only have research experience of the real world.

Not all areas require a Phd - I got offered an interview for a full Accounting lecturing position job in a uni two years ago and I'm still kicking myself that I didn't go for it as I was starting a new job a week before interview was due to take place! And I only have my ACCA, but I do have excellent experience.

While not to be sniffed at the starting Assistant lecturer position would be approx half of current salary, but I'd still be interested.

As has been theorised money is a poor motivator, and beyond a certain level does not impact much on life satisfaction.

Personally I'd love to get stuck into the academic side of things, and believe I would enjoy and thrive in such an atmosphere. I also enjoy working with students (I have done ACCA evening lecturing for experience).

I'd say IT lecturers would not have the same time commitments as Uni lecturers. And thinking back to my time in Limerick IT the lecturers didn't even do work during class time. They were unbelievably poor, but had tenure.

As said above it's very hard to get into lecturing, so it's not for the faint hearted.

angryhungry

smcgiff wrote: »

I will say that with my employer/manager hat on I'm not impressed with Unis employing inexperienced Phd grads, that only have research experience of the real world.

I made the point that, nowadays, one must have 'real world experience' too, in the form of a few years of teaching, marking, examining, curriculum design and admin experience - research talent alone is not enough. Practical knowledge, communication skills and the ability to self-motivate are probably equally important.

I appreciate your point about the poor quality of lecturers in certain institutes a few years ago, but IME that doesn't reflect the realities of the current market. So many people have PhDs today that there really is very little room for dossers - you simply don't find people with a workshy attitude amongst the younger and more recent hires.

It's interesting that you were offered a fulltime position in accounting - I think that that is one of the few areas where industry experience counts as equal to the PhD, but like I said, that is not necessarily typical at all of the wider sector.

smcgiff

angryhungry wrote: »

I made the point that, nowadays, one must have 'real world experience' too, in the form of a few years of teaching, marking, examining, curriculum design and admin experience - research talent alone is not enough. Practical knowledge, communication skills and the ability to self-motivate are probably equally important.

Howdy,

Okay - I think you're saying that lecturers now have both practical experience and a Phd. Which would be perfect. However, if colleges hired a person with a Phd without practical experience over someone with, say, a Masters level and practical experience I think it would be a serious mistake.

angryhungry

Absolutely!

The thing is though, nowadays universities / ITs in my field anyway generally only hire people with a PhD, plus practical experience, plus a post-doc too.

A university that hired someone with great experience but only a Master's qualification would be making a mistake in the longterm if they wanted to attract profitable postgraduate students - because someone without a PhD usually can't supervise someone who wants to study for a PhD. It's not necessarily fair but that's the way it is. Occasionally, I've seen people hired who were working on their own PhD for the first few years, but that seems to be less common now.

graduate

So many threads on this forum are unclear about whether they are talking about university lecturing or IT lecturing. ITs close for the summer and so people typically have teacher type holidays and this may be attractive to some, whereas university staff get typical public sector holidays. ITs tend to value experience more than research. Universities nowadays probably have swung too far in terms of valuing research over experience at appointment. The old situation where you could complete the PhD after appointment allowed people in. But you need a PhD one way or another and now you have to do before appointment or perhaps while on a non permanent contract. It really is difficult to get in now in most disciplines, there are people in the UK or the US with PhDs just waiting for a job to become vacant.

As for the salary, with experience you wouldn't be bottom of the scale if you managed to get in. But without a PhD/research you'd never get promoted.

m1ke

The teaching load in a university is usually only a fraction of what it is in the IT sector, from what i've been told. Some staff in ITs have no time to do research because they're teaching - 12 hours a week or some such outrageous figure. Universities can range from 2 hrs per week to 6 at the upper limit.

graduate

Some staff in ITs have no time to do research because they're teaching - 12 hours a week or some such outrageous figure.

Exactly. The expectation of research is different, quite properly. Which is why it is important to be clear which type of lecturing you are talking about.

Tom Dunne

Jizzer wrote: »

What sort of money can one get after working 10 years in private sector and returning to lecturing?

It depends on what level on the scale you go in at. Look at the TUI website for full details on payscales. Just remember that it is pretty much impossible to get a lecturing position now, never mind a permanent one.

Jizzer wrote: »

Why do people go back to lecture? Is it financial? Or the time off?

Neither. As one wise old lecturer once said to me - you will never become rich lecturing. For me, it's the students and making a difference to their lives. Clichéd? Possibly. But I genuinely can say I thoroughly enjoy my job. Plus I get to do things that I enjoy. I am typing this as I am glancing at a load of Assembly Language notes I am about to deliver.

Jizzer wrote: »

Is there much money to be made in lecturing? What is a maximum salary for a permanent full-time lecturer?

No. Figures of 80k are probably after 20 years of service, so consider half that figure as smcgiff said.

angryhungry wrote: »

I don't mean to be negative, but it seems like you're simply not aware of exactly how cut-throat the academic job market is at the moment - and realistically, if you're still really, really interested, the best thing to do is try to get some part-time hours somewhere first, see how you like it, and then see if it's still what you really want. Most people start lecturing / tutoring part-time during their postgrad training. Financially it would be incredibly risky to quit a fulltime private sector job in order to be a lecturer in this market.

^^ Take note.

m1ke wrote: »

The teaching load in a university is usually only a fraction of what it is in the IT sector, from what i've been told. Some staff in ITs have no time to do research because they're teaching - 12 hours a week or some such outrageous figure. Universities can range from 2 hrs per week to 6 at the upper limit.

It's usually 18 hours in an IT, but can be up to 22. Don't forget, you pretty much double that for preparation, marking and so on, so it is far from as cushy as it sounds. It is at least a 40 hour week.

I'm currently working 8-10 hour days here, trying to keep on top of things.

Skopzz

Jizzer wrote: »

Most Assistant Lecturer jobs I see are paying much less

Lecturers are overpaid in this country. I'm not just talking about Universities, the same also happens in the Institutes of Technologies.

I am aware of an assistant lecturer whos getting €20.00 an hour. Compare that to an average private sector worker whos getting €8.65 an hour. Lecturers who are civil servants have inflated salaries close to €100,000 per annum. Hopefully the budget will address that because the country can't afford to continue high payouts on that scale.

angryhungry

Skopzz wrote: »

I am aware of an assistant lecturer whos getting €20.00 an hour. Compare that to an average private sector worker whos getting €8.65 an hour. Lecturers who are civil servants have inflated salaries close to €100,000 per annum. Hopefully the budget will address that because the country can't afford to continue high payouts on that scale.

Virtually no lecturers earn anywhere near that figure. You have to be on the professorial scales with, usually, decades of experience to manage that - and then only if you're very lucky. And the average private sector worker makes much more than the minimum wage you quote.

Tom Dunne

Skopzz wrote: »

I am aware of an assistant lecturer whos getting €20.00 an hour.

What are the job conditions of this person? Is the person full time? Permanent? Working a full allocation of hours?

20.00 sounds somewhat odd, considering I was working part-time in an IT and earning 64 Euro an hour. But I was only working four hours a week.

Skopzz wrote: »

Lecturers who are civil servants have inflated salaries close to €100,000 per annum. Hopefully the budget will address that because the country can't afford to continue high payouts on that scale.

Do you have any evidence to back that up? Having worked in the industry for a number of years, that doesn't sound right.

positivenote

skopzz, sorry but im not sure if your pulling these figs. out of the air or what?
lecturers or assistant lecturers (basically the same thing except for salary scale andcontact hrs) are on a salary and if not they are paid approx 64euro per hr. they are limited to wrk under 18 hrs contact a week... but in IT's this is no longer allowed since the 'freeze' on recruitment. Regarding the 100k a year, these paypackets go to snr lecturer staff at level II and these positions are few and far between. im currently earning approx 47k a year and have been a lecturering for 7 years having spent a previous 7 studying... and as many on here will tell you that despite there being a few 'lay abouts' who have given up on their students the vast majority do the job for the love of it rathe than the pay packet.

Hillel

positivenote wrote: »

im currently earning approx 47k a year and have been a lecturering for 7 years having spent a previous 7 studying... and as many on here will tell you that despite there being a few 'lay abouts' who have given up on their students the vast majority do the job for the love of it rathe than the pay packet.

That is very poor return at your level of experience and compares very unfavorably with former industry norms. Your position, IMO, illustrates one of the many downsides of long incremental scales. This was one of the reasons I moved to the private sector.

positivenote

Hillel, yes its not a great wage all things considered but as i said previously i see it more as a vocation... i absolutely love my job, and commute close to 160k round trip every day to do it. Nothing can match watching a student develop academically and as a young adult over the course of their degree, watching them grow, sharing in their delight at getting their cloak and certificate at the end of it, and being their for them through the rough times... ive seen it all and you do sometimes feel like a confidant or sorts... even a councilor. And every sept you get another batch of fresh faced, excited, shy, innocent and eager to learn first years. Yes of course i would like to be paid more (or at least not less.. but thats a separate thread) but as i say it is never about the money.

"Find a job you love and you'll never work a day in your life" - Confucius

brianthebard

Skopzz wrote: »

I am aware of an assistant lecturer whos getting €20.00 an hour. Compare that to an average private sector worker whos getting €8.65 an hour.

The minimum wage is not the average private sector wage. Sounds like you're referring to a phd student who tutors 3 hours a week or something similar.

avalon68

Skopzz wrote: »

I am aware of an assistant lecturer whos getting €20.00 an hour. Compare that to an average private sector worker whos getting €8.65 an hour.

Id be amazed if you found an assistant lecturer getting 20 euro an hour.....I used to get 25 euro an hour just to demonstrate in labs as a student :rolleyes:

Lecturers get paid far more than that.