Don Givens - what a joke!

CantGetNoSleep

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2009/1117/irelandu21.html

The Republic of Ireland Under-21 continued their winless run in Group 2 of the Under-21 European Championship as Henrik Mkhitaryan plundered a hat-trick to fire Armenia to a comfortable win in front of their own fans.

Led for the first time by MK Dons midfielder Stephen Gleeson, the Republic fell behind to Mkhitaryan's opener after half-an-hour's play.

Mkhitaryan made it 2-0 to the hosts in the 61st minute before Plymouth's Cillian Sheridan gave his side a lifeline four minutes later, turning in James O'Shea's cross.

Armenia continued to enjoy the best of the game, though, and re-established a two-goal gap through Hovhaness Goharyan's 20-yard strike with 15 minutes to play.

Mkhitaryan slotted in a fourth, and his third, with an 82nd-minute penalty.

The Republic now sit bottom of Group 2, swapping places with their opponents, with just four points from six games.



How long is this going to go on for? Apart with constantly falling out with our most promising players, he seems determined to ensure that we never even come near qualifying for anything. Surely he has to go now

Mr_Roger_Bongos

The F.A.I. are a sham.

If he's allowed to continue after this campaign it will have reprecusssions for the senior team at international level in the future.

Roaster

I was about to put something up myself about this clown. His record at u21 level is atrocious and the worst thing for me is that he has some good players at his disposal but obviously hasn't a clue how to get the best out of them.

CHD

Time for a facebook group. This is the only way to get rid of Givens.

~Rebel~

indeed, how someone can be paid to do something they have such a bad track record in beggers belief....i yearn for Kerr in the youth setup. (obviously those days are well and truly dead and buried)

premierstone

Yeah have to agree its an absolute joke at this stage and I think the FAI should look at what most nations do and allow the senior manager to appoint the u-21 boss.

Givens while he may have been a great player once has a record similar to Stan and appears to have the man management skills of Roy Keane :rolleyes:

Headshot

Roaster wrote: »

I was about to put something up myself about this clown. His record at u21 level is atrocious and the worst thing for me is that he has some good players at his disposal but obviously hasn't a clue how to get the best out of them.

like who mate ?

I dont know much about the u21's so just curious

PaulieD

Headshot wrote: »

like who mate ?

I dont know much about the u21's so just curious

Shane Lowry off Villa, Seamus Coleman from Everton, Jay O' Shea off Birmingham, Graham Carey and Cillian Sheridan from Celtic. They would be the top players, hardly world beaters though.

thegen

Like Headshot I know little of the U21's setup. Can you give me what would be our strongest lineup?

_blank_

Mr_Roger_Bongos wrote: »

The F.A.I. are a sham

+1

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

GLaDOS

On the bright side Paddy Madden got a run out

Mr.Nice Guy

Givens's job seems to be safe no matter what happens. Surely it's time for a change.

thegen

Bohs, Chelsea young guns added to under-21 squad


November 17, 2009

Paddy Madden and Conor Clifford have been added to the Republic of Ireland under-21 squad for the Uefa Championship qualifier against Armenia this morning (Tuesday).


Manager Don Givens was left short on numbers after Everton defender Seamus Coleman (ankle), Crystal Palace winger Sean Scannell (hamstring) and team captain Owen Garvan of Ipswich Town (suspended) were all ruled out of the Yerevan encounter.

With Alan Judge, Brendan Moloney, James McCarthy and Ian Bermingham all having withdrawn from the squad prior to the trip to Georgia, it leaves the team well short of full strength for the meeting with Armenia.

Striker Madden, who broke into the Bohs side this season and helped the Gypsies to the League of Ireland title, is handed a debut call-up, while Clifford is a regular for the international under-19 side.

Lanre Oyebanjo, the Histon full back who has been linked with a move to Peterborough United, Galway United defender Seamus Conneely and Celtic wide man Graham Carey – who scored against Georgia at the weekend after coming on as a substitute – have all been named in the line-up for their first under-21 starts.

Republic of Ireland under-21 (v. Armenia): Redmond (Nottingham Forest – on loan to Burton Albion) - Oyebanjo (Histon), Morris (Newcastle United), Dennehy (Cardiff – on loan to Hereford United), Hughton (Lincoln) – Conneely (Galway United), Gleeson (MK Dons), O’Shea (Birmingham), Carey (Celtic) – Collins (Aston Villa – on loan to Darlington), Sheridan (Celtic – on loan to Plymouth Argyle).


Looks like our U21 squad is as weak as our senior squad. It looks like most of the players at the bigger clubs have been loaned out. If they were pushing for 1st team places we might have a chance.

bohsman

Centre of excellence needed, cant keep relying on the premiership, especially as they're looking worldwide more and more.

ADTR

sugarman wrote: »

Did he not opt tp play for Australia awhile back?

Yes, he did.

CHD

ADTR wrote: »

Yes, he did.

I blame Givens, the FAI and Stephen Ireland.

leninbenjamin

And people wonder why this current generation of players are so weak. That's an atrocious result, nobody in their right mind can justify his position now.

MementoMori

So according to the FAI website he was appointed in 1998 as U-21 manager

In 1998, he was appointed Republic of Ireland Under 21 manager and, although he has failed to guide the side to any major championships, he has overseen the development of players like Colin Healy, Gary Doherty, Steven Reid, Clinton Morrison, Andy O'Brien, John O'Shea, Aiden McGeady, Kevin Doyle, Alan O'Brien, Wayne Henderson who have all gone on to earn regular places in the senior panel.

http://www.fai.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=249:don-givens&catid=78:hall-of-fame&Itemid=146

Now sure of the exact date he was appointed in 1998 but the results of the U-21s since 1998 have been as follows. Sorry about the formatting but twas a copy and paste job)

In 86 games the record look like 33 wins 22 draws and 31 loses.
Looking at the wins very few of them come against the top teams, with the vast majority being against weaker international side.
Overall it's fairly dismal reading.

Does anyone know if there is a international co-efficient for U-21 teams?
If there is I would imagine watching how the ranking has changed over the last eleven years would make for very interesting reading.

59 24.04.1998 Olomouc Czech Republic 0-3
60 18.05.1998 Ballybofey Scotland 3-0
61 22.05.1998 Castlebar Northern Ireland 0-1
62 04.09.1998 Kilkenny Croatia 2-2 ECq
63 13.10.1998 Arklow Malta 2-1 ECq
64 18.11.1998 Belgrade Yugoslavia 1-1 ECq
65 27.04.1999 Birr Sweden 0-3
66 31.05.1999 Elgin Scotland 0-1
67 02.06.1999 Inverness Northern Ireland 1-0
68 08.06.1999 Galway Macedonia 0-0 ECq
69 31.08.1999 Dublin Yugoslavia 0-2 ECq
70 03.09.1999 Zagreb Croatia 1-5 ECq
71 07.09.1999 Valetta Malta 3-1 ECq
72 08.10.1999 Ohrid Macedonia 1-0 ECq

73 22.02.2000 Dublin Czech Republic 1-2
74 25.04.2000 Newbridge Greece 1-2
75 25.05.2000 Toulon Colombia 0-1
76 27.05.2000 Toulon Ghana 2-0
77 29.05.2000 Toulon Portugal 0-3
78 01.09.2000 Nijmegan Netherlands 0-2 ECq
79 06.10.2000 Marinha Grande Portugal 1-3 ECq
80 10.10.2000 Kilkenny Estonia 1-0 ECq

81 23.03.2001 Larnaca Cyprus 1-0 ECq
82 01.06.2001 Dublin Portugal 0-1 ECq
83 05.06.2001 Tallinn Estonia 3-0 ECq
84 31.08.2001 Waterford Netherlands 1-1 ECq
85 05.10.2001 Longford Cyprus 3-0 ECq
86 26.03.2002 Cork Denmark 3-2
87 20.08.2002 Helsinki Finland 1-0
88 07.09.2002 Moscow Russia 0-2 ECq
89 15.10.2002 Kilkenny Switzerland 2-3 ECq

90 28.03.2003 Tbilisi Georgia 1-1 ECq
91 01.04.2003 Tirana Albania 0-1 ECq
92 02.06.2003 Cork Germany 2-2
93 06.06.2003 Dublin Albania 2-1 ECq 2
94 10.06.2003 Kilkenny Georgia 1-1 ECq
95 19.08.2003 Gdansk Poland 5-1
96 05.09.2003 Waterford Russia 2-0 ECq
97 10.10.2003 Neuchatel Switzerland 2-0 ECq

98 24.02.2004 Madeira Portugal 0-0
99 25.02.2004 Madeira Italy 1-0
100 27.02.2004 Madeira Madeira 4-0
101 27.04.2004 Grudziadz Poland 2-2
102 25.05.2004 Galway Scotland 3-1
103 17.08.2004 Drogheda Bulgaria 3-2
104 03.09.2004 Kilkenny Cyprus 3-0 ECq
105 07.09.2004 Berne Switzerland 2-4 ECq
106 08.10.2004 Troyes France 0-1 ECq
107 25.03.2005 Herzeliya Israel 1-3 ECq
108 03.06.2005 Longford Israel 2-2 ECq
109 06.09.2005 Cork France 1-2 ECq
110 07.10.2005 Larnaca France 1-1 ECq
111 11.10.2005 Dublin Switzerland 0-1 ECq

112 14.02.2006 Madeira Madeira 1-1
113 15.02.2006 Madeira Finland 2-1
114 17.02.2006 Machico Portugal 2-1
115 28.02.2006 Drogheda Sweden 1-0
116 11.05.2006 Baku Azerbaijan 2-1 ECq
117 18.05.2006 Kilkenny Azerbaijan 3-0 ECq
118 16.08.2006 Athens Greece 2-0 ECq
119 01.09.2006 Galway Belgium 0-1 ECq
120 18.10.2006 Mamer Luxembourg 2-0

121 27.02.2007 Madeira Slovakia 1-0
122 28.02.2007 Choupana Madeira 2-2
123 02.03.2007 Machico Portugal 0-1
124 27.03.2007 Venlo Netherlands 0-1
125 21.08.2007 Furth Germany 2-2
126 07.09.2007 Cork Portugal 0-2 ECq
127 12.10.2007 Uppsala Sweden 3-2
128 16.10.2007 Cork England 0-3 ECq
129 16.11.2007 Podgorica Montenegro 0-1 ECq
130 20.11.2007 Athlone Bulgaria 1-0 ECq

131 05.02.2008 Southampton England 0-3 ECq
132 25.03.2008 Galway Montenegro 1-1 ECq
133 20.08.2008 Vienna Austria 1-1
134 05.09.2008 Sofia Bulgaria 0-2 ECq
135 09.09.2008 Madeira Portugal 2-2 ECq
136 14.10.2008 Vilnius Lithuania 3-0

137 10.02.2009 Dublin Germany 1-1
138 27.03.2009 Waterford Spain 2-1
139 31.03.2009 Cork Turkey 0-3 ECq
140 09.09.2009 Rakvere Estonia 1-1 ECq
141 09.10.2009 Dublin Georgia 1-1 ECq
142 13.10.2009 Waterford Switzerland 1-1 ECq
143 14.11.2009 Georgia 1-1 ECq
144 17.11.2009 Armenia 4-1 ECq

Sorting by wins, losses and draws.
Looking at the win list it's hardly impressive reading in terms of top teams we've beaten over the last 11 years.

Wins
60 18.05.1998 Ballybofey Scotland 3-0
63 13.10.1998 Arklow Malta 2-1 ECq
67 02.06.1999 Inverness Northern Ireland 1-0
71 07.09.1999 Valetta Malta 3-1 ECq
72 08.10.1999 Ohrid Macedonia 1-0 ECq
76 27.05.2000 Toulon Ghana 2-0
80 10.10.2000 Kilkenny Estonia 1-0 ECq
81 23.03.2001 Larnaca Cyprus 1-0 ECq
83 05.06.2001 Tallinn Estonia 3-0 ECq
85 05.10.2001 Longford Cyprus 3-0 ECq
86 26.03.2002 Cork Denmark 3-2
87 20.08.2002 Helsinki Finland 1-0
93 06.06.2003 Dublin Albania 2-1 ECq 2
95 19.08.2003 Gdansk Poland 5-1
96 05.09.2003 Waterford Russia 2-0 ECq
97 10.10.2003 Neuchatel Switzerland 2-0 ECq
99 25.02.2004 Madeira Italy 1-0
100 27.02.2004 Madeira Madeira 4-0
102 25.05.2004 Galway Scotland 3-1
103 17.08.2004 Drogheda Bulgaria 3-2
104 03.09.2004 Kilkenny Cyprus 3-0 ECq
113 15.02.2006 Madeira Finland 2-1
114 17.02.2006 Machico Portugal 2-1
115 28.02.2006 Drogheda Sweden 1-0
116 11.05.2006 Baku Azerbaijan 2-1 ECq
117 18.05.2006 Kilkenny Azerbaijan 3-0 ECq
118 16.08.2006 Athens Greece 2-0 ECq
120 18.10.2006 Mamer Luxembourg 2-0
121 27.02.2007 Madeira Slovakia 1-0
127 12.10.2007 Uppsala Sweden 3-2
130 20.11.2007 Athlone Bulgaria 1-0 Ecq
136 14.10.2008 Vilnius Lithuania 3-0
138 27.03.2009 Waterford Spain 2-1


Losses
59 24.04.1998 Olomouc Czech Republic 0-3
61 22.05.1998 Castlebar Northern Ireland 0-1
65 27.04.1999 Birr Sweden 0-3
66 31.05.1999 Elgin Scotland 0-1
69 31.08.1999 Dublin Yugoslavia 0-2 ECq
70 03.09.1999 Zagreb Croatia 1-5 Ecq
73 22.02.2000 Dublin Czech Republic 1-2
74 25.04.2000 Newbridge Greece 1-2
75 25.05.2000 Toulon Colombia 0-1
77 29.05.2000 Toulon Portugal 0-3
78 01.09.2000 Nijmegan Netherlands 0-2 ECq
79 06.10.2000 Marinha Grande Portugal 1-3 ECq
82 01.06.2001 Dublin Portugal 0-1 ECq
88 07.09.2002 Moscow Russia 0-2 ECq
89 15.10.2002 Kilkenny Switzerland 2-3 ECq
91 01.04.2003 Tirana Albania 0-1 ECq
105 07.09.2004 Berne Switzerland 2-4 ECq
106 08.10.2004 Troyes France 0-1 ECq
107 25.03.2005 Herzeliya Israel 1-3 ECq
109 06.09.2005 Cork France 1-2 ECq
111 11.10.2005 Dublin Switzerland 0-1 ECq
119 01.09.2006 Galway Belgium 0-1 ECq
123 02.03.2007 Machico Portugal 0-1
124 27.03.2007 Venlo Netherlands 0-1
126 07.09.2007 Cork Portugal 0-2 ECq
128 16.10.2007 Cork England 0-3 ECq
129 16.11.2007 Podgorica Montenegro 0-1 ECq
131 05.02.2008 Southampton England 0-3 ECq
134 05.09.2008 Sofia Bulgaria 0-2 ECq
139 31.03.2009 Cork Turkey 0-3 ECq
144 17.11.2009 ?????? Armenia 4-1 ECq



Draws
62 04.09.1998 Kilkenny Croatia 2-2 ECq
64 18.11.1998 Belgrade Yugoslavia 1-1 ECq
68 08.06.1999 Galway Macedonia 0-0 ECq
84 31.08.2001 Waterford Netherlands 1-1 ECq
90 28.03.2003 Tbilisi Georgia 1-1 ECq
92 02.06.2003 Cork Germany 2-2
94 10.06.2003 Kilkenny Georgia 1-1 ECq
98 24.02.2004 Madeira Portugal 0-0
101 27.04.2004 Grudziadz Poland 2-2
108 03.06.2005 Longford Israel 2-2 ECq
10 07.10.2005 Larnaca France 1-1 ECq
112 14.02.2006 Madeira Madeira 1-1
122 28.02.2007 Choupana Madeira 2-2
125 21.08.2007 Furth Germany 2-2
132 25.03.2008 Galway Montenegro 1-1 ECq
133 20.08.2008 Vienna Austria 1-1
135 09.09.2008 Madeira Portugal 2-2 ECq
137 10.02.2009 Dublin Germany 1-1
140 09.09.2009 Rakvere Estonia 1-1 ECq
141 09.10.2009 Dublin Georgia 1-1 ECq
142 13.10.2009 Waterford Switzerland 1-1 ECq
143 14.11.2009 Georgia 1-1 ECq

Source for results here.

http://www.rsssf.com/tablesi/ier-u21-intres.html

Eire-Dearg

Conneely (Galway United)

my mates cousin.

pablomakaveli

Eire-Dearg wrote: »

my mates cousin.

Good to know.

Anyway i think Givens has to go. I'm sure if the decision was given to Trappatoni he could get us a good U21 coach. The bad results aside Givens has fallen out with a few players and that is something we don't need.

Aidric

On the face of it he isn't making any progress. The logical step would be to send him on his way, he can hardly argue he hasn't had enough time.

PaulieD

sugarman wrote: »

Did he not opt tp play for Australia awhile back?

He did indeed it seems. You learn something new everyday.:o

PaulieD

bohsman wrote: »

Centre of excellence needed, cant keep relying on the premiership, especially as they're looking worldwide more and more.

If I remember correctly, Saint Pats had plans for one, but it fell by the wayside when Kelleher hit financial problems with his multi-billion project in Chicago. Pity.

TheDoc

I'd argue that these players developement is being more affected directly by their clubs, then the FAI or the irish setup in fairness.

Obviously its important that our younger crop gain some experience and confidence when playing for their national sides, but I dont think its damaging the future of our first team, this players get their skills and trade at their clubs, not their country.

Roaster

At the end of the day we were beaten by fooking Armenia!!!! The lads quoted above are good players and maybe not as good as your Germany, Portugal or Holland at u21 level but we should be competing with the lesser nations no problem.

Good to see Paddy Madden get a run out.

Drummerboy2

The job should be given to a young up and coming Irish coach, who would have an input into all coaching in this country. Givens is just a golfing buddy of Delaney. He has fallen out with many many players, such as McCann, Foran, Connolly, Treacy, Stokes and many many more. It is stiffling the development of players coming through.