Public Sector Strike

Rozabeez

In fairness mate, several of us have used the term, not just YTH.

tuborg

afaik the economics department are not striking, i have both my classes running 2moro.

One lecturer had told us that they were giving the class despite the strike and the other one had intially cancelled because of the strike but just got an email today saying that class was going ahead.

Ostrom

hairy cake wrote: »

Eh, departments aren't 'striking' or not. It depends on a number of factors (whether individual staff are union members, support staff, etc.).

The extent to which any non-tenured individual can strike is in debatable, and has been officially forbidden by university authorities. Although it is not strictly an issue of departmental policy, the internal politics of most make it near impossible.

princess_calico

Effluo wrote: »

Personally i don't see why the SU should have to make a clear judgement on what is appropriate pay for the staff in maynooth.

IMO they should be just looking out for the students. In which case they should condemn the strike due to the fact that students miss out on lectures and services.

It is arguable that it will be harder for colleges to attain as high a grade of lecturer due to the lower wages. This could be a basis for the SU being against cutbacks, but they should still not condone the strike!
And the wage argument is not 100%

The SU's stance on the strike is a neutral one. We ARE here for the students' education and the reason that we ourselves are not going to be picketing is because of the strike students are losing out on a day of education.


I would also like to make clear that due to our constitution we are not associated with any governmental or political party. I make this point in order to dispel the rumours that we are affiliated with the present government. To make it even clearer, there is only one of the SU exec that is in support of the party. The rest of us are all opposed to Fianna F.A.I..L!

We do not see students as being "scabs" if they use necessary facilities on the campus. This battle does not belong to the students. If they decide to support the lecturers then I say fair play to them for standing up for their beliefs! This is your choice- Use it!

Ostrom

princess_calico wrote: »

The SU's stance on the strike is a neutral one. We ARE here for the students' education and the reason that we ourselves are not going to be picketing is because of the strike students are losing out on a day of education.

Which makes it all the more painful to see messages of student support for the strike action. I would rather a direct occupation of teaching rooms as opposed to a general campus blockade, but I suppose it has been a few years since the last one... The SU could do with taking a firmer stance on internal dealings however. The role of any ostensibly impartial representative body should be to monitor and audit on behalf of what are effectively its paying clients (as much as I hate the concept...). The fact that the circular to students from the staff unions effectively disregarded the rights of students to collective action by not considering our union's position on the strike is offensive to say the least. An ideal SU in my opinion shold be right at the front of issues like this, one way or another.

princess_calico wrote: »

I would also like to make clear that due to our constitution we are not associated with any governmental or political party. I make this point in order to dispel the rumours that we are affiliated with the present government. To make it even clearer, there is only one of the SU exec that is in support of the party. The rest of us are all opposed to Fianna F.A.I..L!

Affiliation or no, there will always be unaviodable political alignments within and between union/management. I dont see how mainstream party politics should factor into this?

princess_calico wrote: »

This battle does not belong to the students. If they decide to support the lecturers then I say fair play to them for standing up for their beliefs! This is your choice- Use it!

I disagree. Supporting the lecturers in this instance, considering the way in which this issue has been framed, the history of exclusion of non-tenured staff from basic membership, and non-intervention (despite the actions of certain noted individuals) over the fees issue, make this a battle that students should be accurately informed on. When the cuts begin, it wont be at the level of senior pay, and I hope every student who will remain here for the forthcoming years takes note of how this particular discussion is playing out, and how active these same staff will be when the sh*t rolls downhill onto the likes of you and me.

lemansky

Ex. Physics- third year electromag lecture tomorrow is cancelled. Can't speak for any other modules.


Maths-Physics- no word on whether its a go/ no go tomorrow, however we were handed out the letter about the strike in today's MP lecture. There was no word from the lecturer about which modules, if any, would be affected tomorrow.

banquo

As I've said before, the entire SU are my friends. But friends are honest with each other.

Recommending to students to cross picket lines isn't a neutral stance. I respect anyone with a sincere viewpoint on the day of action, for or against, but let's not bull**** each other.

Also, dis-friending PrivateEye/Donal on Facebook is so incredibly petty that it defies all understanding. What problem did that solve, exactly? There are enough honest-to-God battles out there without us creating cosmetic ones.

Music
Building - including Tech Labs, Performance Suite - closed. Ergo the office is also closed.

Those of you with an essay for Lorraine Byrne due tomorrow: it's now due wednesday.

LeixlipRed

If you have lectures or tutorials you should not be attending them. Do not pass a picket!! The government is intent on making low paid public sector workers the victim of the budget. Support them and do not pass a picket.

princess_calico

banquo wrote: »

As I've said before, the entire SU are my friends. But friends are honest with each other.

Recommending to students to cross picket lines isn't a neutral stance. I respect anyone with a sincere viewpoint on the day of action, for or against, but let's not bull**** each other.

Also, dis-friending PrivateEye/Donal on Facebook is so incredibly petty that it defies all understanding. What problem did that solve, exactly? There are enough honest-to-God battles out there without us creating cosmetic ones.

We are not recommending anybody to cross or not cross picket lines. We are telling students to make up their own minds. I for one say fair play to those that do decide to support the strike, but just remember that we as students are losing out on a full day of lectures, tutorials, seminars, campus facilities (a comedian in the SU!!) What about students living on campus? Are they going to be shouted down when they try to get home?

We are not bullsh*tting anyone. We are doing our job by standing up for the rights of the student body. The people that raised their voices the loudest last year- when the issue of fees was introduced- were the same people that complained that they would be unable to attend lectures. Now they are avoiding lectures by their own choice. Where were the majority of lecturers when the fees were an issue? Not striking with students.

Can I remind people that this is a public sector strike? Not necessarily a student one- although if you are for it, then well done.

The issue with PrivateEye was rectified and the issue has been dealt with and sorted. There was a huge misunderstanding by the person that removed him from the page and it has all been sorted.

I REALLY don't want another fight! Let the dispute remain between the public sector (and its supporters!!) and Fianna F*ckin FAIL!!!!:mad:

hypersquirrel

I hate this notion of don't pass a picket. The whole point of a picket is about a display of solidarity. I for one am very opposed to this strike as a former staff member that was unrecognised by the unions. I have seen the cuts that have been made in order to preserve the wages of the elite top dogs. I do not have the support of the unions and the measures they are protesting could actually help those like me. Therefore the unions do not have my support or solidarity. Therefore I should cross the picket. A picket is meaningless if it is not symbolic of support. If people refuse to cross a picket because they agree with the people excellent that is how it should work. If they refuse to cross the picket because they are scared of being taunted or otherwise negatively affected then it is pointless.

cian1500ww

If I don't cross the picket tomorrow I risk getting 0 in a lab exam tomorrow. I can't,for the life of me, understand why the lecturer won't move the exam to next week. I hate having to cross the picket lines but I guess I'll have no other choice. Anyone know where the pickets will be ? Maybe I might be able to go around them ??

tuborg

LeixlipRed wrote: »

If you have lectures or tutorials you should not be attending them. Do not pass a picket!! The government is intent on making low paid public sector workers the victim of the budget. Support them and do not pass a picket.

DavidRedmond wrote:

Dear Student,

The University intends to remain open and conduct business as best it
can on Tuesday, 24th November when a number of University staff will
be on strike.

With regard to Lectures. Tutorials, Practicals and other departmental
activities, we have asked Departments/individual staff to contact
their students via Moodle, Email or Departmental Website or other
means to let students know if any particular event is cancelled.
Otherwise academic events go ahead as scheduled.
Yours sincerely
David Redmond
Registrar

In all fairness, if class is going ahead, which it is for my department I am going to attend lectures. I am glad my department is still running ahead, unlike the deparment I demonstrate for which means a lower pay cheque this month.

Rozabeez

cian1500ww wrote: »

If I don't cross the picket tomorrow I risk getting 0 in a lab exam tomorrow. I can't,for the life of me, understand why the lecturer won't move the exam to next week. I hate having to cross the picket lines but I guess I'll have no other choice. Anyone know where the pickets will be ? Maybe I might be able to go around them ??

Just make it look as though you live on campus... carry a shopping bag

LeixlipRed

You'll have an even lower paycheck when Mr Lenihan increases tax on those least able to pay in December.

cian1500ww

Rozabeez wrote: »

Just make it look as though you live on campus... carry a shopping bag

I do live on-campus

Does that mean I'll be inside the picket lines :D

Ostrom

princess_calico wrote: »

Can I remind people that this is a public sector strike? Not necessarily a student one- although if you are for it, then well done

I REALLY don't want another fight! Let the dispute remain between the public sector (and its supporters!!) and Fianna F*ckin FAIL!!!!

This is far from a straighforward issue, as the thread should have demonstrated. Your education is delivered by a mix of permanant/tenured, adjunct, contract, assistant, 'pink slip' and postgraduate labour. The latter four are unwelcomed by the established teachers unions. A significant proportion of teaching work, and important (based on student feedback - as evidenced in the English tutorial fallout) fact time is delivered by workers who fall between the student/staff remit. The fact that institutes such as DCU have voted against strike action speaks to the point made by the poster below, insofar as it shows just how critical cheap unregulated labour is to senior staff.

The reign that individual departments have had over recruiting policy, and insular union leadership are systemic issues, as I mentioned earlier, drifting slowly from an established American model of contract service provision. It should not remain at the level of Fianna Fail/Public Sector, it should be made public. At the very least it would dispel the 'majority overpaid lazy' myth and bring internal dealings and inequality to the debate.

hypersquirrel wrote: »

I hate this notion of don't pass a picket. The whole point of a picket is about a display of solidarity. I for one am very opposed to this strike as a former staff member that was unrecognised by the unions. I have seen the cuts that have been made in order to preserve the wages of the elite top dogs. I do not have the support of the unions and the measures they are protesting could actually help those like me. Therefore the unions do not have my support or solidarity. Therefore I should cross the picket. A picket is meaningless if it is not symbolic of support. If people refuse to cross a picket because they agree with the people excellent that is how it should work. If they refuse to cross the picket because they are scared of being taunted or otherwise negatively affected then it is pointless.

Unfortunately we run the risk of burning important bridges tomorrow

Fooz

I am not going to cross a picket today. Before I get into my car and drive the 25 miles to college can anyone who might be on campus let me know if there is definitely a picket on the south campus gate this morning?

banquo

There now. There is. Good few as well...

limerickman95

Why do people not want to cross a picket line

cian1500ww

There's quite a good few on the picket line at the main entrance to the north campus. For anyone that want's to go around it, there's no picket line at the entrance beside the village apartments

5Aces

I need to use a computer. dont go to lectures so i doubt they will know whose bridge to burn. remember balaclavas are not just for egging the neighbours!

banquo

Huge picket at south campus gates.

Also, ramp is gone. Think they could have filled in the massive pothole while they were at it with the tarmac machine they had...

jrd_old

What's it like on the North campus?

cian1500ww

cian1500ww wrote: »

There's quite a good few on the picket line at the main entrance to the north campus. For anyone that want's to go around it, there's no picket line at the entrance beside the village apartments

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

jrd wrote: »

What's it like on the North campus?

jrd_old

Missed that post, thanks...

LeixlipRed

Some good picketing got done today. Managed to get most of the pickets in around the college. And it was good to see Labour Youth there with their pretty sign

5Aces

empty now, tis safe

Duddy

anyone attack yees for trying to stop them going to a lecture??

tootyflutty

Duddy wrote: »

anyone attack yees for trying to stop them going to a lecture??

Saw some guy getting shouted/chanted at by the Labour group and lecturers as he walked through old campus gates..

Effluo

tootyflutty wrote: »

Saw some guy getting shouted/chanted at by the Labour group and lecturers as he walked through old campus gates..

what sado's

LeixlipRed

Anything like that was in good humour. No one was intimidated or anything like that. These people are protesting so you can have free fees and all you can do is call them saddos

banquo

Nearly got rub over by john Hughes. My fault, wasn't paying attention and wandered in front of his car. Turned out to be the prez of the college, so that'll bode well for me.

LeixlipRed

Thought I seen you there at old gates when I arrived alright.

Effluo

tootyflutty wrote: »

Saw some guy getting shouted/chanted at by the Labour group and lecturers as he walked through old campus gates..

They are sado's if they did this and it wasn't a joke.


They were protesting so i don't have to pay fees? didn't know that (besides the point i'm actually in favour of some sort of fee)


edit: isn't all the college fee thingy finished with now? After the greens said they would try get some respect/votes and say "No fees plz"

LeixlipRed

There were numerous facets to the demonstrations today. The government will have fees back on the agenda soon don't you worry. And there is no way anyone was intimidated or "shouted at" in anything but jest today.

PrivateEye

A very good turnout from Labour, personally delighted with the turnout from Free Education for Everyone.

The decision to march together to the North Campus entrance before going to different pickets was a good one, showed the numbers. Nice to see some Austrian types involved with the occupations there out too.

The local Labour cllr. showed up to the North Campus LITERALLY just after Labour Youth left for the South Campus and ended up talking to FEE/ Austrian lefty students Gave him directions, slightly bemusing moment.

Thanks Labour/individual students, bloody great to see groups working together when need be. Some issues are FAR bigger than our seperate banners

isn't all the college fee thingy finished with now? After the greens said they would try get some respect/votes and say "No fees plz"

Not in the slightest.

Backdoor fees, a government TD lecturing on campus, massive cutbacks across the board.

We're only starting. We put up over 150 A3 posters for today on campus, built for it online, and attended the November Sixth demos too. Opposting cutbacks on campus is crucial.

The student movement can't just fcuk off home with their football once direct fees come off the table

Effluo

LeixlipRed wrote: »

And there is no way anyone was intimidated or "shouted at" in anything but jest today.

That's great if it's true. I don't know what tootyflutty saw, but i'm sure we can all agree that abusing somebody because they have a different opinion than you is wrong(unless they are just plain morally wrong). And anyone who would do something like that would be imo, a "sado".

Lets just leave it there

Sea Sharp

They are sado's if they did this and it wasn't a joke.

Who is this guy 'Sado'

(Sorry, you're using 's the wrong way )

hypersquirrel

LeixlipRed wrote: »

Anything like that was in good humour. No one was intimidated or anything like that. These people are protesting so you can have free fees and all you can do is call them saddos

In jest or not if they did that then they have lost all respect I had for them. They are making a mockery of their own picket by doing that. Nobody should ever have anything said against them for crossing picket.

LeixlipRed

I should add that the only people who I seen doing this were some student protestors. Not the workers picketing. And they seemed to know the chap. Lads, relax ffs, none of you were even there!!

tootyflutty

Effluo wrote: »

That's great if it's true. I don't know what tootyflutty saw, but i'm sure we can all agree that abusing somebody because they have a different opinion than you is wrong(unless they are just plain morally wrong). And anyone who would do something like that would be imo, a "sado".

I wouldn't exactly call it abuse...actually I wouldn't call it anywhere near that! Though the guy looked embarressed and quickened his pace as he talked on the phone,but in no way did it seem malicious nor anything more than the group sharing their veiws... with the intent of him hearing

jrd_old

Whats the story with this new strike on the 3rd of December? And if the budget is going to be as harsh as we all think it will be, then will there be more strikes after?

Thinking of my students, and the exam papers that I submit last week... I'll have to do some serious chopping and changing of my lecture notes to make sure that I have everything on the exam paper covered.

PrivateEye

Saw some guy getting shouted/chanted at by the Labour group and lecturers as he walked through old campus gates..

I spent most of my time on the FEE (and some individual students...) picket at the North Campus, but we marched up there with Labour Youth at the start and met up with them again at the end.

I very much doubt they abused anyone today, they were all great well mannered student activists, and I was really really impressed by their showing today.

They've good heads on them, I would think it was either a close friend of one of them getting a bit of stick, or nothing at all.

edit: Ah, I see tootyfluttys post now. nice one!

Effluo

tootyflutty wrote: »

I wouldn't exactly call it abuse...
Though the guy looked embarrassed and quickened his pace as he talked on the phone

I bet he was "fake talking" on the phone, so he wouldn't have to chat lol.

I'm not here to say they were wrong or right, but i don't think they should have singled him out though for "crossing the line"...
It's not gonna get him on their side anyway

Rozabeez

What was with the huge crowd of protesters outside Manor mills? That's not even the campus O_o

sovietpop

PrivateEye wrote: »

For what its worth, as somebody completely behind the ICTU day of action, I'm actually quite annoyed reading about the attitude to contract staff on campus from the two unions. I imagine I'm not alone on here in saying I've every intention of some day working in a University, so I find that very worrying to read.

I'm on a contract at Maynooth, I'm a researcher and also a member of IFUT. I have a friend who is doing his PhD and also is a temporary lecturer and is a member of SIPTU. In my previous job I was also a contractor and a member of SIPTU. So I'm not sure if the reports of anti-contract attitude are up to date, certainly it was true a couple of years ago, not anymore. Which makes sense, as people have said, the reality of work in the universities is that more and more people are being hired on contracts.

PrivateEye

What was with the huge crowd of protesters outside Manor mills? That's not even the campus O_o

Its a great meeting point. Met up at Manor Mills (Labour Youth, FEE/SSN, Shinners, individual students....) and then we all went down to the North Campus entrance together, before dividing ourselves up among the different picket lines for a while.

Looked great heading down to the North Campus entrance, did my heart good!

Rozabeez

You lot scared the crap out of me, was heading into Manor Mills in the car with my mam and thought for a split second people were picketing where I work =[

PrivateEye

Can I remind people that this is a public sector strike? Not necessarily a student one- although if you are for it, then well done

Job losses on campus (Which there will be) can only be bad for students. There is a direct link between attacks on NUIM staffs working conditions, and the quality of services on offer to students. Tutorials for example are just one area at risk. Look at the French Department situation with the loss of a secretary there (I understand she's been taken on again on a part-time basis?)

Its weak of the Student Union not to support strike action like todays, because they're missing the very obvious link between whats going on in the TRADE Unions on campus and whats concerning students at the minute.

There's no way a "neutral stance" was possible on this one to be honest. Union banners weren't made to sit in boxes until the next time somebody threatens US with fees.

Pay cuts are part of a wider package of measures that will progressively reduce the resourcing and the quality of the education provided to students in our schools and universities. The return to charging students tuition fees forms part of the same political agenda. Students and staff have a common interest in the protection of our education system against the kind of destructive changes with which it is currently threatened.

-From the letter put together by some Trade Unionists on campus.

Ostrom

sovietpop wrote: »

I'm on a contract at Maynooth, I'm a researcher and also a member of IFUT. I have a friend who is doing his PhD and also is a temporary lecturer and is a member of SIPTU. In my previous job I was also a contractor and a member of SIPTU. So I'm not sure if the reports of anti-contract attitude are up to date, certainly it was true a couple of years ago, not anymore. Which makes sense, as people have said, the reality of work in the universities is that more and more people are being hired on contracts.

We must talk. I'm in the same situation going on two years. Colleagues in the department who make up over 20% of the teaching staff have been refused by IFUT consistently over the past four years.