Fitting a gun safe

rrpc

johnner1 wrote: »

Who said anything about a single wall,i said a room or a closet and build a 4inch solid wall you have to use your brains from there on, i never said one wall either you would line the room from floor to ceiling that would make it a stable structure.
And here i am trying to help i often wonder.

You can also fit wall ties at each end of your wall, bolted to the studs so that the block wall is supported on all sides and the base. If you really want to be anal about it you could also have wall ties behind it on each course and there'd be no hope of shifting it.

Not that any thief would even think of trying to remove a concrete wall :rolleyes:

So you've been given a number of options now JohnnyCrash, anything else we can help you with?

JohnnyCrash

johnner1 wrote: »

Who said anything about a single wall,i said a room or a closet and build a 4inch solid wall you have to use your brains from there on, i never said one wall either you would line the room from floor to ceiling that would make it a stable structure.
And here i am trying to help i often wonder.

Im not trying to pull the P here.Sure if i lined a closet with block,then all i would need to do is fit a big steel door,job done.All i want to do is fit a gun safe somewhere.I appreciate everyones input,but some of it is getting far fetched.

4gun

Mellor wrote: »

I reckon it would take all of 2 mins to remove that safe.

fixing to a stud is not an option. A hammer to expose the stud, and a saw in the stud would have the thing out in seconds.
The safe might be securely fixed to the stud, but the stud doesn't have to stay in the house

well to be honest if i came prepared with the right tools i could take the gun safe off a block structure in about the same time fame so what exactly are you trying to prove
how often do you see thieves going around with that kind of kit most they'd have is a crow bar and they'd need a goo 3ft one to lever the safe away from the wall

JohnnyCrash

rrpc wrote: »

You can also fit wall ties at each end of your wall, bolted to the studs so that the block wall is supported on all sides and the base. If you really want to be anal about it you could also have wall ties behind it on each course and there'd be no hope of shifting it.

Not that any thief would even think of trying to remove a concrete wall :rolleyes:

So you've been given a number of options now JohnnyCrash, anything else we can help you with?

Nah,appreciate all comments,but sense the tone of that was"go away now" ha ha.Cheers

4gun

JohnnyCrash wrote: »

Im not trying to pull the P here.Sure if i lined a closet with block,then all i would need to do is fit a big steel door,job done.All i want to do is fit a gun safe somewhere.I appreciate everyones input,but some of it is getting far fetched.

you safe has to be fitted to a solid structure last time i checked stud walls were a solid structure fix directly tothe studs using the strongest frame screws you can get if some one thinks they will be able to rip it out in 2 minutes, then the next time i have a demolition job i'll give them a call

rrpc

4gun wrote: »

you safe has to be fitted to a solid structure last time i checked stud walls were a solid structure fix directly tothe studs using the strongest frame screws you can get if some one thinks they will be able to rip it out in 2 minutes, then the next time i have a demolition job i'll give them a call

I'll bring me chainsaw

johnner1

JohnnyCrash wrote: »

Im not trying to pull the P here.Sure if i lined a closet with block,then all i would need to do is fit a big steel door,job done.All i want to do is fit a gun safe somewhere.I appreciate everyones input,but some of it is getting far fetched.

i think the only thing far fetched is yourself, great idea putting the steel door up just goes to show when you engage your own brain what you can come up with.
originally you asked for opinions and you got plenty so the decision is yours use what you like, or see can you better the answers yourself.

nip102

On a related topic, some might find interesting when locating their safes.

Recently heard of a robbery, where a gun safe was stolen from a isolated rural house, while owners were out. The safe had been responsibly bolted to an external block wall on the inside of house.

Thiefs obviously were only after safe, knew where it was and did not enter house. They used a sledge or similar to break the blocks/wall behind the safe from outside the house, made a nice big hole and walked away with the loot.

Anyone who has done a bit of similar demolition with a good heavy sledge, will know how easy it is to break blocks.

Cass

nip102 wrote: »

..........The safe had been responsibly bolted to an external block wall on the inside of house. .............Thiefs obviously were only after safe, knew where it was and did not enter house. ..........

So it was someone they (owners) knew or someone they invited into their house. Do not show where your safe is bolted to anyone. Ever. For any reason. (with exception of the Gardai, of course)

rrpc

nip102 wrote: »

On a related topic, some might find interesting when locating their safes.

Recently heard of a robbery, where a gun safe was stolen from a isolated rural house, while owners were out. The safe had been responsibly bolted to an external block wall on the inside of house.

Thiefs obviously were only after safe, knew where it was and did not enter house. They used a sledge or similar to break the blocks/wall behind the safe from outside the house, made a nice big hole and walked away with the loot.

Anyone who has done a bit of similar demolition with a good heavy sledge, will know how easy it is to break blocks.

That's not so easy with a cavity wall. Single skin might be easier, but I'd far prefer to be using a Kango than a sledge.

And you'd want to be sure you had a lot of time!

4gun

rrpc wrote: »

That's not so easy with a cavity wall. Single skin might be easier, but I'd far prefer to be using a Kango than a sledge.

And you'd want to be sure you had a lot of time!

good consaw would save a lot of sweatin' nice clean cut ..be handy to open the safe after:D

homerhop

4gun wrote: »

good consaw would save a lot of sweatin' nice clean cut ..be handy to open the safe after:D

will do ya a good deal on consaws there boss, untraceable of course and still in the box

Rovi

If the bad guys know where your safe is and come equipped to remove it, there's not much anyone can do in a domestic house to prevent them.
I mean, they take ATMs out of bank walls with heavy construction machinery.

What we're looking to do in a domestic situation is not let that information get out in the first place, along with making the safe as difficult to find and remove as possible for the 'ordinary' burglar who is there for the telly and the ready cash.
This involves everything from properly concealing the safe, to having a decent quality alarm, to not leaving 'clues' all over the place (shooting magazines, bits of shooting/hunting equipment, etc), to a host of other precautions that we all take to a greater or lesser degree.

OP: I again suggest that you have a chat with the local Crime Prevention Officer, they'll look at your actual situation, and advise accordingly.

Mellor

4gun wrote: »

you safe has to be fitted to a solid structure last time i checked stud walls were a solid structure fix directly tothe studs using the strongest frame screws you can get if some one thinks they will be able to rip it out in 2 minutes, then the next time i have a demolition job i'll give them a call

Maybe is you actually read my post it would help.
I never said you could rip the screws out in 2 mins. I said the stud. If you can't figure out how this is easier, I'd suggest that you stay away from those demolition jobs.

4gun

Mellor wrote: »

Maybe is you actually read my post it would help.
I never said you could rip the screws out in 2 mins. I said the stud. If you can't figure out how this is easier, I'd suggest that you stay away from those demolition jobs.

yeah, no problem and if you had read my post i could do the same to a block wall if i brought the right equipment with me reciprocating saws are standard tool for burgulars in your area cos that the only way you'd do it in two minutes

rrpc

4gun wrote: »

yeah, no problem and if you had read my post i could do the same to a block wall if i brought the right equipment with me reciprocating saws are standard tool for burgulars in your area cos that the only way you'd do it in two minutes

Chainsaw

4gun

rrpc wrote: »

Chainsaw

exactly,
it's one thing to say you can do it. It's a whole other thing to actually do it

dCorbus

And now to throw some oil on the fire!:D
4gun / rrpc - IMHO You are BOTH correct! Taa Daa!:D
With the right equipment, any wall, floor, structure, building element, etc. can be destroyed and / or removed! And in addition time is always an consideration.:D

The regulations require that the safe be secured to a "solid structure" - unfortunately (AFAIK) they do not define what is actually meant by a "solid structure", but it clearly does not state anywhere "loadbearing structure" (thankfully).

Many buildings are now constructed using timberframe type technology - And I would be of the opinion that these structures may be deemed to be "solid". It is not the individual elements which make up the "structure" which define its "solidity", it's how they are assembled. E.g. Whilst a concrete block is in itself a solid element, it does not mean that a blockwork wall dry-constructed with no mortar etc. could in anyway be classed as a "solid structure". Likewise, a timberframe / stud wall, whilst made up of "less solid" elements, can indeed be constructed and assembled to form a "solid structure".

That's my tuppence worth:D It seems to be that we are all "arguing" / "discussing":rolleyes: at cross-purposes:

To summarise:

- Any "competent" thief with the right tools / equipment and sufficient time can break into anything they want to.
- The purpose of the secure accomodation measures is to ensure that it is neither simple nor easy to remove the gun safe and its contents from the location.
- Total security is an impossibility - Given enough time, equipment, skill, and resources nowhere is totally secure.

Let's not be suggesting various ways and means for our "secure accommodation" to be compromised!:D

Thanks
dC

JohnnyCrash

johnner1 wrote: »

i think the only thing far fetched is yourself, great idea putting the steel door up just goes to show when you engage your own brain what you can come up with.
originally you asked for opinions and you got plenty so the decision is yours use what you like, or see can you better the answers yourself.

So much for attacking the post and not the poster.

Norwayviking

http://www.6mmbr.com/gunsafes.html

clivej

You have a couple of options here with a timber Frame structure.
Dump the fixing bolts that came with the safe use 10mm or 12mm rawlbolts minimum.

1 - Cut away some plaster board on an outside wall and sit the safe in as near as you can to the outside solid wall and drill away with the fixing bolts, but make sure you don't go though the wall to the outside.

2 - Find out where the chimbley goes upstairs in one of the bedrooms and fix the safe to that, it will be solid block..

3 -Put your safe against the inside stud plaster board wall that has a solid wall behind it. Now get some threaded rod and use that instead of the bolts and bolt them through the stud wall into a solid outside block wall. Get some 10mm or 12mm Rawlbolts and use the wedge expanding type, drill size will be stated on the Rawlbolt. I think it's a 16mm drill for a 10mm Rawlbolt.

Sleve the threaded rod with tubing, copper pipe will do, between the Rawlbolt and the safes side so that as you tighten up the nut on the threaded rod you pull the wedge of the Rawlbolt up tight and expand the Rawlbolt in the drilled hole.


This is easy if you take your time and think it over first.

Odysseus

clivej wrote: »

1 - Cut away some plaster board on an outside wall and sit the safe in as near as you can to the outside solid wall and drill away with the fixing bolts, but make sure you don't go though the wall to the outside.

2 - Find out where the chimbley goes upstairs in one of the bedrooms and fix the safe to that, it will be solid block..

I had the same problem in my house, I had to go with option 1, option 2 was out as I have only gas heating. I fixed some architrave around it and it looks well, it hides the cuts in the plasterboard. It looks tidy and it's secure.

deerhunter1

JohnnyCrash wrote: »

Have to fit my safe to a SOLID STRUCTURE.Only prob is,my house has stud partition walls.Any ideas,or is this the wrong forum? DIY maybe?

Lay it flat on the floor and bolt it to the floor

gavlaw

what a handleing

cavan shooter

I dont think it says it has to be fixed to be fixed to concrete, if I remember guidelines from the Bristish home office on secure storage refers to solid structure. Yes concrete is the best option but dont rule out timber and fixing using coach bolts. See link below, I base my security on this book, I also took out a brief excerpt for you

http://police.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/operational-policing/firearms-handbook2835.pdf?view=Binary

from page 7

2.10 Fixings for security devices form an important part of the overall resistance to attack.
Fastening to timber studded walls should be avoided, unless some additional anchorage can be provided. Floor or roof joists (subject to the previous comments) are acceptable. Walls of brick,
concrete or masonry are usually the best bonding materials.

lusoshooter

If you want to make make a stronger wall to put the safe and are not concern with the work that involves and if is not a rental Home...
you can choose one bearing wall, rip all the plaster in at least to 2 stud spaces for witch side of the safe, use a drill for drilling holes with the size necessary to pass threw the stud steel rods used for reinforce concrete walls in spaces 10'' apart from floor to at least 1 foot above the size of the save, then put 1 2x12'' in both sides of the wall in a way to make form pour light concrete mix ( same concrete that is used to make the floors in the buildings with metallic structure ) keep pouring the concrete in the form until 2" above of the last rood, like is a bearing wall it's possible to anchor more long screws to the main beam under the wall, the light concrete mix have around 30%less weight shouldn't be a problem but any way is a good idea to have a chat with somebody who can access the structural weight capacity of the chosen wall,then wen the concrete wall is cured just bolt the safe and finish the new wall with the studs in middle and take attention and protect all the exposed cables and pipes if applicable,wen pouring the mix.
This is the way that is used in the United states when installing safe boxes in stud walls.

flanum

+1 attic!!

Install the styra after the inspection... Gards might like the fact ye have to go to the hassle to locate a ladder to even get into the space where the cabinet is.. (apparently)!

emptyshed

While we're on the subject. Any issues with heat when mounting on chimney?
I'm in the process of moving and the chimney in the attic seems the best location.... I know the heat should be minimal near the roof...but there's just something seems wrong about putting ammo near a chimney!!

?? Any opinions

foxshooter243

flanum wrote: »

+1 attic!!

Install the styra after the inspection... Gards might like the fact ye have to go to the hassle to locate a ladder to even get into the space where the cabinet is.. (apparently)!

some FO s dont like the attic as a location for gunsafes, as they think that because it requires some effort to put the firearms outta reach then some folks mighnt bother and leave them aside till later..read this from another poster on Boards;)

jap gt

i could also do with some advice, im getting my safe tomorrow, the problem is im still living at home, i cant think of best place to put it, my two options are, in the wardrobe in my room or in the spare bedroom both rooms have good locks etc. which would look best to the gaurds/ be most partical