Quick question

Larianne

Which is better Netter or Gray's Flashcards?

Or should I bother at all? Thank you.

A Neurotic

I can only give second-hand advice - I was told that Gray's are better.

PhysiologyRocks

I have both Gray's and Netter's. I personally prefer Netter's, but they're both just fine.

Cards with photographs are brilliant before spot exams.

Larianne

Yeah, my spot exam is 3 weeks today so I thought it's something good to have while on the bus.

Went into H&F and was gonna get Gray's but then saw Netter's. But Gray's is cheaper so I might just get that. Thanks for the speedy responses.

sillymoo

I used gray's and found them great. Good luck in the spot exam!

mardybumbum

I bought Netters flash cards.
Absolute waste of money.
Dont bother with them at all.
You would be better off spending the 30 euro on monkhouse's anatomy.
Just go over tierneys notes and supplement them with grays.
And in the spot exam, trace the origin and insertion of the muscle. So many people try and identify structures without touching the cadaver at all. :eek:

GradMed

I have the Netter cards and think they're great.
Try and get your hands on both sets and see which one suits you best.

Larianne

mardybumbum wrote: »

I bought Netters flash cards.
Absolute waste of money.
Dont bother with them at all.
You would be better off spending the 30 euro on monkhouse's anatomy.
Just go over tierneys notes and supplement them with grays.
And in the spot exam, trace the origin and insertion of the muscle. So many people try and identify structures without touching the cadaver at all. :eek:

You mean when they are learning the origins and insertions right? We're not allowed touch the cadavers in the exam.

Yeah, was in Anatomy today with the skeleton and bones going over bony points first, then muscle attachments etc. I'll progress onto cadavers next time I'm in as I find it's the easiet way to learn things.

I'd stay in the anatomy lab all day if I could.

mardybumbum

I take back what I said.
Just after using the netters cards for head and neck.
Found them really good.
Buy them.

bythewoods

Are they basically just mini, handy versions of the atlas mardybumbum?
I still have about €90 left on my book voucher from the entrance award yokes, and it's burning a hole in my pocket.

mardybumbum

bythewoods wrote: »

Are they basically just mini, handy versions of the atlas mardybumbum?
I still have about €90 left on my book voucher from the entrance award yokes, and it's burning a hole in my pocket.

Thats exactly what they are.
I think theres a few extra slides that arent in the book too.
Basically they are netter slides that are labelled 1,2,3,4,5,6,7, e.t.c.
You try and remember what the labels are pointing at then turn over to see which ones you got wrong.
Plus theres a little bit of text on the back relevant to each slide.

bythewoods

mardybumbum wrote: »

Thats exactly what they are.
I think theres a few extra slides that arent in the book too.
Basically they are netter slides that are labelled 1,2,3,4,5,6,7, e.t.c.
You try and remember what the labels are pointing at then turn over to see which ones you got wrong.
Plus theres a little bit of text on the back relevant to each slide.

They sound like just the job for me tbh. I think I'll pick up a wee box of them tomorrow.
Thanks!

Larianne

Can I just ask the 1st yr Meds here what questions were you asked in the Spot Exam on the spine? Or did you get any questions on it?

A Neurotic

No spine, we've only covered the upper and lower limbs thus far!

bythewoods

Finally bought Netter's flash cards today.
They're an absolute Godsend, wish I'd bought them before my spotter exam. Thanks mardybumbum, thanks.

I'm now officially less worried about my Viva.

mardybumbum

While we are on the subject of Anatomy revision aids, you should try and get your hands on Acklands DVD's for upper limb and lower limb.
They are quite expensive to buy but there are other ways to get them.
The internet is a great resource.

Larianne

Did my spot yesterday and just have to say - nothing can prepare you for that! :eek:

Got my results though. Apparently good going, or so says the doc who set it. I still would have liked more! I have to stop studying the WRONG things!

bythewoods

I actually failed my spot exam.
A combination of not preparing myself in terms of study and not realising what exactly a spot exam entailed. If I could go back and do it again now I'm pretty sure I'd be well able to pass.

I have a Viva on Thursday, absolutely freaking it.
Was talking to a few second years who've been reassuring me though.

GoodGosh I hate Anatomy.

Larianne

Oh no! But in fairness as one of the docs said, NOTHING can prepare you for those exams!! And the first spot is a kick up the arse for people. I'm not actually as scared of you-know-who any more.

What way do you study anatomy? For the SPOT exams you need to spend a good while in the DR with the cadavers and bones and skeletons. And get someone to question you and you them. There's only so much you can do reading a book. I'd help you out of if could but we've only covered the upper limb this term. But grab one of the demonstrators and ask them loads of questions.

I think the VIVA will be easier. There's no frickin bell!!!

Best of luck.

mardybumbum

Had my spot exam as well today.
Did an all nighter last night. Got 15 solid hours of head and neck anatomy done. Was dead confident going in but that didn't matter in the end as I hadn't put the hours in during the anatomy labs.
I still think I did quite well but there were one or two things I couldn't identify on the cadaver as I was used to pointing it out in netters.
Wont make the same mistake when we are doing the brain next semester.

Definitely try to study anatomy with somebody else. Im not sure what it is about discussing anatomy with a study partner that makes it stick in your head but It sure does work.

Also, anatomy is a visual subject.
Im not very artistic but i like to draw schema for nerves, arterial networks, bones and their tubercles, fossae, e.t.c. Drawing something really seems to imprint it in my mind.

Different techniques work for different people. Its all about finding what works best for you.

HQvhs

mardybumbum wrote: »

Had my spot exam as well today.
Did an all nighter last night. Got 15 solid hours of head and neck anatomy done. Was dead confident going in but that didn't matter in the end as I hadn't put the hours in during the anatomy labs.
I still think I did quite well but there were one or two things I couldn't identify on the cadaver as I was used to pointing it out in netters.
Wont make the same mistake when we are doing the brain next semester.

Definitely try to study anatomy with somebody else. Im not sure what it is about discussing anatomy with a study partner that makes it stick in your head but It sure does work.

Also, anatomy is a visual subject.
Im not very artistic but i like to draw schema for nerves, arterial networks, bones and their tubercles, fossae, e.t.c. Drawing something really seems to imprint it in my mind.

Different techniques work for different people. Its all about finding what works best for you.

Just out of total curiosity, how do your spot exams work? How many would you have a semester?

bythewoods

Larianne wrote: »

Oh no! But in fairness as one of the docs said, NOTHING can prepare you for those exams!! And the first spot is a kick up the arse for people. I'm not actually as scared of you-know-who any more.

What way do you study anatomy? For the SPOT exams you need to spend a good while in the DR with the cadavers and bones and skeletons. And get someone to question you and you them. There's only so much you can do reading a book. I'd help you out of if could but we've only covered the upper limb this term. But grab one of the demonstrators and ask them loads of questions.

I think the VIVA will be easier. There's no frickin bell!!!

Best of luck.

Absolutely agree with you, failing it was such an absolute kick to do more work in anatomy, I am in one (tiny) sense sort of half-gladish I failed it... so i can learn from my mistakes. I suppose.

I usually study anatomy with my Netters and by writing out a few of my own notes on every muscle.
In the DR I pick up bones, teach myself to label all the parts and figure out where the muscles attatch on it.
Then I rote learn the nerve supply and any clinical points on those muscles.
I tend to leave out tiny little useless muscles though... Like the eh... most..of..them...
Haven't really devised a way of doing blood supply yet. Drawing them out is probably the best way to go.

I'm petrified for the Viva. I *will* clam up and say nothing...

mardybumbum wrote: »

Had my spot exam as well today.
Did an all nighter last night. Got 15 solid hours of head and neck anatomy done. Was dead confident going in but that didn't matter in the end as I hadn't put the hours in during the anatomy labs.
I still think I did quite well but there were one or two things I couldn't identify on the cadaver as I was used to pointing it out in netters.
Wont make the same mistake when we are doing the brain next semester.

Definitely try to study anatomy with somebody else. Im not sure what it is about discussing anatomy with a study partner that makes it stick in your head but It sure does work.

Also, anatomy is a visual subject.
Im not very artistic but i like to draw schema for nerves, arterial networks, bones and their tubercles, fossae, e.t.c. Drawing something really seems to imprint it in my mind.

Different techniques work for different people. Its all about finding what works best for you.

I definitely feel like you could pour hours into staring at your Netters and still not be able to identify muscles when it comes to looking at the actual cadavers... especially since, of course, every cadaver seems to look different.
Next semester- More time in the DR. Honest.

HQvhs wrote: »

Just out of total curiosity, how do your spot exams work? How many would you have a semester?

Not sure about Larianne and Mardybumbum, but I've had one spot exam on the Upper Limb this semester, and we're having a Viva (Which is basically like.. an interrogation ) for Xmas on both the upper and lower limbs.

For the spot exam, you're basically given an answer sheet.
There are stations going up the DR (I think there were 12...?) and each station there's either a cadaver with a muscle labelled, or an Xray of something (A hand for example) or a bone with a part of it marked. At each station there's a little sheet with 3 or 4 questions relating to the bone/ muscle/ xray asing you to identify what it is etc.
You've got 2.5 minutes at each station, then a bell rings and you have to move on.

It really sucks.

Larianne

Bythewoods, defo get into the DR. Even though I did panic a bit in the exam, I think because I had gone into the DR quite a few times, I don't think I panicked half as much because of that.

Also, no cadaver is exactly how netter has it drawn. There's a cadaver with musculocutaneous nerve branching at a different place than it is suppose to (I don't think it pierces the coracobrachialis.... something up in that area..) and then another cadaver with the brachial plexus all confused. And another where the tendon in the forearm (I think it's one of the thumb muscles) is superfical instead of intermediate. As you can tell, I have spent maybe too much time in the DR, but it's my favourite subject!

I think you'll be fine for the VIVA because you're in conversation with the docs so things will pop into your head as you're saying it. And I'm sure they help you along or if you're totally going in the wrong direction they'll stop you. I think studying/discussing the anatomy of the cadavers with someone else will help you BIG time in the VIVA as you're saying it out load, correcting each other.

For our spot exam on the upper limb - for Physios and OTs there were 8 stations and we had 2 minutes at each station! Ours was different from the Meds. I saw JS Meds exam and ooh I would have preferred that one! I'll say it again though, NOTHING prepares you for your first SPOT exam.

Mardy, you don't know how much of a tool that mnemonic for the carpel bones was! It comes to me now like second nature!

HQvhs

bythewoods wrote: »

Not sure about Larianne and Mardybumbum, but I've had one spot exam on the Upper Limb this semester, and we're having a Viva (Which is basically like.. an interrogation ) for Xmas on both the upper and lower limbs.

For the spot exam, you're basically given an answer sheet.
There are stations going up the DR (I think there were 12...?) and each station there's either a cadaver with a muscle labelled, or an Xray of something (A hand for example) or a bone with a part of it marked. At each station there's a little sheet with 3 or 4 questions relating to the bone/ muscle/ xray asing you to identify what it is etc.
You've got 2.5 minutes at each station, then a bell rings and you have to move on.

It really sucks.

That sounds tough! Do they count for much? We have three spot exams a semester where we're questioned by someone (could be a technician, anatomist, professor or surgeon proesector) for about 5 minutes while our anatomy group watches on. It can be quite intimidating too. Then we have a big one (like your Viva I imagine) at the end of each semester too.

But you're right, the only way to study anatomy is to get a small group in the anatomy room and cover everything possible!

Larianne

HQvhs wrote: »

That sounds tough! Do they count for much? We have three spot exams a semester where we're questioned by someone (could be a technician, anatomist, professor or surgeon proesector) for about 5 minutes while our anatomy group watches on. It can be quite intimidating too. Then we have a big one (like your Viva I imagine) at the end of each semester too.

Apparently, that's how they used to examine students in Trinity. That sounds SOOooooooo much worse but hey, it'd make ya study!

Piste

Yeah there's nothing worse than the awkward silence when you don't know the answer to the question and are looking around beseechingly at your anatomy group for some help, but they're equally as scared of the professor as you are. It's quite intimidating!

Brods

Much worse than the awkward silences with PT/Glacken are the blackholes that you can't escape when an orthopedic surgeon asks you about the rotator cuff. Learn for the exams, don't expect to remember anything later! ... and I feckin loved anatomy!

There is a way of spending too much time in the DR tho- especially coming up to written exams in May. Short bursts rather than whole days but you definitely have to put in the hours during the year when its quiet. Reading week means the dept is jammed and then they have this nasty habbit of closing the DR for the few days before the exam to prep the cadavers!

Miss anatomy, but I like how my hair doesn't smell anymore!

Larianne

Any tips with the pelvis/hip joint? I just can't get my head around all the ligaments. I guess because of the bone is an obscure shape, I'm finding looking at some illustrations and cross/transverse sections hard to visualise.

mardybumbum

Brods wrote: »

Miss anatomy, but I like how my hair doesn't smell anymore!

Think I'm going to miss it too. I'll be glad to get neuroanatomy out of the way though. :cool:

Any tips with the pelvis/hip joint? I just can't get my head around all the ligaments. I guess because of the bone is an obscure shape, I'm finding looking at some illustrations and cross/transverse sections hard to visualise.

If it's of any help, I think most students of anatomy find the lower limb the most difficult section to get their heads around.
I certainly remember very little of it compared to upper limb, thorax, abdomen, back + spine.
The innominate bone certainly is a difficult one to visualise, and the only way to get around that is spend a lot of time in the DR with it or buy your own.
Two dimensional diagrams dont do a great job of portraying its irregular shape.

There is a document in Dr. Glackens GET folder by Prof. J B Coakley which has some pretty ok-ish diagrams of the bone and its relations which may be of some use.

If you have purchased Netters you should have access to netteranatomy.com. It may be worth your time checking out the "pelvis and perineum"/"lower limb" sections there.

As for the hip joint itself there is a document on webct entitled "hip and sacroiliac joints" which I think has all the information you will need.
At the moment I am trying to intersperse some first year anatomy with neuroscience In the hope that I may have a decent shot at USMLE's next year.
What I find works for me is to print out PT's notes, understand them, and then annotate them with extra information from Moore and Dalley ( or whatever your favourite text is ).
But different strokes for different folks.

I mentioned Acklands above. His videos are ok, but not fantastic. May be worth a watch or may be a waste of time.

Good luck with it anyway.

A Neurotic

We've started dissecting the thorax. So much more interesting than the upper and lower limbs. Love it!

mardybumbum

A Neurotic wrote: »

We've started dissecting the thorax. So much more interesting than the upper and lower limbs. Love it!

Ara now, the upper limb isn't too bad.