The Match **DO NOT START OTHER MATCH THREADS**

partyatmygaff

pH wrote: »

Ahh, from now on! let's say we could find a referee mistake in an earlier qualifier that Ireland won (or drew) should that also be replayed?

The earlier matches did not provide a final decision to entering the world cup, this one did.

Liam Byrne

aDeener wrote: »

thats some mighty fine straw clutching your at there

At least I'm entitled to use my hands to clutch it....no rule against that, is there ?

starbelgrade

Liam Byrne wrote: »

The result of this is that their brand is associated with cheating; they could have distanced themselves from it, but they chose to back him up today.

And that back-up implies "well, when all is said and done we condone cheating".....

I don't get it lads - when did deliberately handling the ball go from breaking the rules of the game to "cheating". My feeling is that it came from the outbursts from the commentary team on RTE last night.

In Fifa's Laws of the Game 2005, Law 12 says a free-kick or penalty will be awarded if a player "handles the ball deliberately" and that "a caution or dismissal is not normally required."

By the rules of the game, it is merely a minor offence, so if you're judging players actions, you must judge them by the rules of the game & not the rules of the heart.

ridelm

Good luck for the match to be replayed, it definitely should happen

lugha

starbelgrade wrote: »

In Fifa's Laws of the Game 2005, Law 12 says a free-kick or penalty will be awarded if a player "handles the ball deliberately" and that "a caution or dismissal is not normally required."

Interesting. I always thought that a deliberate handball DID always warrant a yellow card?

starbelgrade

lugha wrote: »

Interesting. I always thought that a deliberate handball DID always warrant a yellow card?

Not according to FIFA rules, which governs international matches. The rules of other footballing associations may differ.

ridelm

Thierry Henry is a Cheat (Parody Song) - Dublin's 98
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNJndFpgTEI

The Pontiac

ridelm wrote: »

Good luck for the match to be replayed, it definitely should happen

It's not going to happen though. Trapattoni was been realistic in his interview today, when he said "it is impossible" for a replay. I hope I'm wrong. The more publicity this gets, the better for the game though. It's just sickening at times - the diving/cheating, racism, corruption etc....

starbelgrade

ridelm wrote: »

Good luck for the match to be replayed, it definitely should happen

There is zero chance of the match being replayed. The basic rule, as it currently stands, is that the referee's decision is final.

I can't see video refereeing being introduced any time soon either - the cost of it is huge, especially to countries with lesser funds. There is talk however, of the introduction of goal mouth officials, who in theory, would have a better view of stuff that goes on in goalmouth scrambles... like pushing, pulling shirts & handballs etc.

starbelgrade

<Ollie> wrote: »

It's just sickening at times - the diving/cheating, ....

Yeah, but if you get rid of all of that, you also render useless one of football's greatest expressions... "We was robbed, we was".

ridelm

did it ever happen that a game has been replayed ?
appart from that, I do think Thierry Henry is the world's best football player.

The Pontiac

ridelm wrote: »

did it ever happen that a game has been replayed ?
appart from that, I do think Thierry Henry is the world's best football player.

There is precedent for the invalidation of such results. In 2005, the Bureau of the Fifa World Cup organising committee reached a decision to invalidate the result of a World Cup qualification match between Uzbekistan and Bahrain on the basis of a ‘technical error by the referee of the match’.

Unfortunately not quite the same situation though..

OutlawPete

ridelm wrote: »

did it ever happen that a game has been replayed ?

Sure did ..

November 19, 2009, 2:44 pm

Ireland Cites Uzbekistan-Bahrain Decision in Appeal

By JEFFREY MARCUS

“It wasn’t up to Henry to say I touched it with my hand,” said Ireland Manager Giovanni Trapattoni.

“He cannot say ‘excuse me referee, I handled it’, the responsibility is with the referee.”

Seeking justice, and a spot in the World Cup in South Africa, the Football Association of Ireland has demanded a replay of the playoff with France, which ended in France’s favor after Thierry Henry handled the ball before passing to William Gallas for the score.

“The blatantly incorrect decision by the referee to award the goal has damaged the integrity of the sport,” said an F.A.I. statement. “We now call on FIFA, as the world governing body for our sport, to organise for this match to be replayed.”

The appeal cited a 2005 decision to replay a World Cup qualifier between Uzbekistan and Bahrain as precedent.

Members of the government of the Republic of Ireland also called on soccer’s governing body to remedy the injustice: ”If that result remains, it reinforces the view that if you cheat you will win,” said Ireland’s justice minister Dermot Ahern, according to the Associated Press.

“Millions of people worldwide saw it was a blatant double hand ball, not to mention a double offside,” Ahern said. ”We should put the powers that be in the cozy world of FIFA on the spot and demand a replay.”

John Delaney, the chief executive of the F.A.I. called on FIFA to honor its commitment to fair play and asked the French soccer federation to protect the “integrity” of the game.

“They need to look at themselves in this situation. Henry is their captain and a wonderful footballer, but does he want to be like Diego Maradona and his legacy to be this handball, this goal that got them to the World Cup in an unjust manner?” Delaney said. “If we had qualified in this manner, I wouldn’t be happy.”

The Ireland appeal cites a match from 2005, when Uzbekistan and Bahrain were competing for a spot in the 2006 World Cup in Germany. The match was ordered to be replayed for a technical infraction by the referee that seems to pale in comparison to the Henry handball.

In the 39th minute of the 2005 match, with Uzbekistan leading 1-0, the referee awarded Uzbekistan a penalty. But before the ultimately successful spot kick, a player entered the penalty area. The referee should have ordered the penalty kick to be retaken but instead awarded Bahrain an indirect free kick.

According to the FIFA report, “Uzbekistan protested the decision of the referee in a written request, asking for the match to be ‘cancelled’ and be evaluated with a 3-0 forfeit result.” Instead, the Bureau of the 2006 FIFA World Cup Germany Organizing Committee ordered the match to be replayed.

Bahrain went on to advance to a playoff over Uzbekistan, but lost to Trinidad and Tobago for a spot in Germany.

Ireland manager Giovanni Trapattoni, who was annoyed but sanguine after the game Wednesday night, said a replay was “impossible.” And FIFA has indicated a replay will not be granted.


“After the referee decides the game is finished for me. I know it’s impossible to replay the game,” said Trapattoni. “It must make us think, because it can be repeated in the future.”

The laws of the game give the referee on the field final say. According to Law 5 (page 22), “The decisions of the referee regarding facts connected with play, including whether or not a goal is scored and the result of the match, are final.”

If the match official realizes he is incorrect after consultation with his assistant referees or the fourth official on the sideline, he can change his mind only if play has not been restarted or the game is over. There is no video replay in soccer, much to chagrin of fans, Irish or not.

“It’s about time FIFA and UEFA speak about technology,” Trapattoni said.

“I’m sure in the future it will be necessary… but there are too many interests.”

starbelgrade

ridelm wrote: »

did it ever happen that a game has been replayed ?
appart from that, I do think Thierry Henry is the world's best football player.

Yep, as stated above. The fact is though, that there was no "technical error" here - Henry broke a rule of the game which was not spotted by the officials & the goal stood.

CCCP^

pH wrote: »

Ahh, from now on! let's say we could find a referee mistake in an earlier qualifier that Ireland won (or drew) should that also be replayed?

Sure, lets replay it. Win, lose or draw Ireland would still make that play-off against France.

starbelgrade

CCCP^ wrote: »

Sure, lets replay it. Win, lose or draw Ireland would still make that play-off against France.

??? I don't get this.

smcgiff

Sky News are reporting that FIFA are considering Ireland's appeal for a replay. They don't add anything to that just go into earlier VT.

Possibly only a formality after the FAI appealed, but still...

BTW - this is my first soccer post on Boards because of that bloody registration thingie in the soccer forum.

starbelgrade

smcgiff wrote: »

Sky News are reporting that FIFA are considering Ireland's appeal for a replay. They don't add anything to that just go into earlier VT.

Possibly only a formality after the FAI appealed, but still...

BTW - this is my first soccer post on Boards because of that bloody registration thingie in the soccer forum.

Sky News are ultra reliable when it comes to these things! The soccer forum registration is fairly straightforward, btw. I post there a lot, but am currently serving a weeks ban for calling Stephen Ireland a "tosser"! (even thoug he clearly is one!)

My name is URL

CCCP^ wrote: »

Sure, lets replay it. Win, lose or draw Ireland would still make that play-off against France.

There won't be a replay, or an undoing of the result

Best we can hope for is that FIFA acknowledge that **** went astray, and they actually do something to stop it in future

Ireland's unfair exit can be of no greater use than that, imo..

but that is worth fighting for, even more so than a replay.. our injustice could be the biggest justice to happen to the modern game

marko91

jd007 wrote: »

Can you explain how France were trying to lose that match?? Just because a team play bad this means they're trying to lose??

I, too, am proud of the team, thought they were brilliant tonight.

each and every one of them fought to the end!...france did not play bad..WE STOPPED THEM PLAYING GOOD!!!


we had them...they knew we had them...we knew we had them all the way til henry CHEATED:mad:...he has been an idol to me for many year but now he is dead to me!


france & portugal got through...thats what they wanted, thats why they did a seeded draw...if robbie keane did what henry did then id bet my life that fifa would force both teams to a replay...fifa fair play? **** FIFA!

starbelgrade

marko91 wrote: »

we knew we had them all the way til henry CHEATED:mad:...

But he didn't. He handled the ball & broke a rule of football, same as committing a foul. It's just a pity he got away with it. But, hey - that's football. Given could easily have been sent off earlier in the game & we'd have been sunk by a peno, but we weren't - that's football & that's why we love it.. when it's good, it's pure drama & entertainment.

super_metroid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48KxomccYNU&feature=related

henry has always been a cheat !

smcgiff

starbelgrade wrote: »

But he didn't. He handled the ball & broke a rule of football, same as committing a foul. It's just a pity he got away with it. But, hey - that's football. Given could easily have been sent off earlier in the game & we'd have been sunk by a peno, but we weren't - that's football & that's why we love it.. when it's good, it's pure drama & entertainment.

You're getting caught up in semantics. You may have convinced yourself that it's 'part of the game' - but in every normal meaning of the word he cheated.

He tried to alter the course of the game outside proper conduct and rules of the game. He cheated.

The rule isn't 'handle the ball and try to score unless the ref sees you and gives a foul' - He cheated.

starbelgrade

smcgiff wrote: »

You're getting caught up in semantics. You may have convinced yourself that it's 'part of the game' - but in every normal meaning of the word he cheated.

He tried to alter the course of the game outside proper conduct and rules of the game. He cheated.

The rule isn't 'handle the ball and try to score unless the ref sees you and gives a foul' - He cheated.

It's not semantics. International football is played by the rules of FIFA & in Fifa's Laws of the Game 2005, the rules clearly state that, a free-kick or penalty will be awarded if a player "handles the ball deliberately" and that "a caution or dismissal is not normally required."

By the rules of the game, it is merely a minor offence, so if you're judging players actions, you must judge them by the rules of the game & not the rules of the heart.

If you look at it from the point of view of the officials not seeing the offence, then yes, we was robbed. There's no semanticising that fact.

CCCP^

My name is URL wrote: »

There won't be a replay, or an undoing of the result

Best we can hope for is that FIFA acknowledge that **** went astray, and they actually do something to stop it in future

Ireland's unfair exit can be of no greater use than that, imo..

but that is worth fighting for, even more so than a replay.. our injustice could be the biggest justice to happen to the modern game

What I was refering to earlier was when some guy pointed out that Ireland had a dubious handball decision go in their favour in a qualifier against Georgia which we went on to win. The chap said if we WERE to replay France, then surely that should have been too.

I was just pointing out that even if Keane's penalty was disallowed, Ireland would still atleast draw and still have more points than Bulgaria for a play-off spot. Just being pedantic is all.

smcgiff

starbelgrade wrote: »

It's not semantics. International football is played by the rules of FIFA & in Fifa's Laws of the Game 2005, the rules clearly state that, a free-kick or penalty will be awarded if a player "handles the ball deliberately" and that "a caution or dismissal is not normally required."

By the rules of the game, it is merely a minor offence, so if you're judging players actions, you must judge them by the rules of the game & not the rules of the heart.

If you look at it from the point of view of the officials not seeing the offence, then yes, we was robbed. There's no semanticising that fact.

I think you're being too narrowly focused on your understanding of the game.

See the first definition...

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/cheat

For inheritance read World Cup Final place

Actually the second Definition is quite ironic too, don't ya think!

marko91

starbelgrade wrote: »

But he didn't. He handled the ball & broke a rule of football, same as committing a foul. It's just a pity he got away with it. But, hey - that's football. Given could easily have been sent off earlier in the game & we'd have been sunk by a peno, but we weren't - that's football & that's why we love it.. when it's good, it's pure drama & entertainment.

seriously? errrrr anelka dived, given didnt d nothing rong thats why they werent awwarded anything...i think u may have been watching a different game?



HENRY SHOULD PLAY FOR DUBLIN GAA TEAM!!!

starbelgrade

smcgiff wrote: »

I think you're being too narrowly focused on your understanding of the game.

See the first definition...

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/cheat

For inheritance read World Cup Final place

Actually the second Definition is quite ironic too, don't ya think!

I have yet to see a referee discuss semantics with a linesman regarding a penalty decision or consult a dictionary on an offside appeal.

starbelgrade

marko91 wrote: »

seriously? errrrr anelka dived, given didnt d nothing rong thats why they werent awwarded anything...i think u may have been watching a different game?



HENRY SHOULD PLAY FOR DUBLIN GAA TEAM!!!

I saw the game & it wasn't a penalty. I said that it COULD have been awarded & in some games it would have been, and that's football. Sometimes you get the rub of the green, sometimes you don't.

And yeah.. Henry to replace Jayo. He's in better nick!

smcgiff

starbelgrade wrote: »

I have yet to see a referee discuss semantics with a linesman regarding a penalty decision or consult a dictionary on an offside appeal.

We're not discussing the ref or the linesmen or even Thierry Henry.

This is all about you baby* - It's you that cannot see Thierry Henry's actions as cheating. Soccer or any sport does not get an exemption from the concept of cheating. Simples.


*Read with Eamonn Dunphy's voice