The Match **DO NOT START OTHER MATCH THREADS**

starbelgrade

smcgiff wrote: »

Soccer or any sport does not get an exemption from the concept of cheating.

That's where you are wrong. Cheating does not exist in football. There are rules against fouling, diving, handling balls, pulling jerseys etc & there are punishments that are there to enforce the breaking of rules, presuming the breaking of the rules are spotted or recognised by the match officials. That's football. If you don't understand that, you don't understand football, baby.

smcgiff

starbelgrade wrote: »

Cheating does not exist in football.

*Thierry Henry* Hey McShane, handle the ball in the Irish Box and I'll give you a million quid.
*Paul McShane* Sounds great, Thierry, but wouldn't that be cheating.
*Thierry Henry* Don't be silly - starbelgrade said it's impossible for cheating to exist in football.

Back to reality - I admit to knowing nothing about football. Cause I know Henry cheated.

prinz

starbelgrade wrote: »

That's where you are wrong. Cheating does not exist in football. There are rules against fouling, diving, handling balls, pulling jerseys etc & there are punishments that are there to enforce the breaking of rules, presuming the breaking of the rules are spotted or recognised by the match officials. That's football. If you don't understand that, you don't understand football, baby.

What a pointless argument. If I take notes into an exam and use them to pass but don't get caught is that now not cheating either?

smcgiff

prinz wrote: »

What a pointless argument. If I take notes into an exam and use them to pass but don't get caught is that now not cheating either?

Of course not - it was up to the invigilator to catch you! :rolleyes::D;)

Thirdfox

Just to let people know - on facebook there's a page set up for people supporting a replay (it's nice to have it in spirit even if reality may dictate otherwise).

Up to 176,000 people supporting this already.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Petition-to-have-IRELAND-Vs-FRANCE-REPLAYED/180940979795?ref=nf

Apparently it has even been mentioned on sky news.

starbelgrade

prinz wrote: »

What a pointless argument. If I take notes into an exam and use them to pass but don't get caught is that now not cheating either?

I don't know. I would suppose that it depends on the rules of the examination board.

What I do know however, is the rules of football & in the rulebook, the word "cheating" does not exist. There are rules & there are punishments for breaking the rules. Henry broke a rule & should have been punished by the rules, which, as a minor offence, should have been a free-kick out to Ireland.

smcgiff

starbelgrade wrote: »

I don't know. I would suppose that it depends on the rules of the examination board.

What I do know however, is the rules of football & in the rulebook, the word "cheating" does not exist. There are rules & there are punishments for breaking the rules. Henry broke a rule & should have been punished by the rules, which, as a minor offence, should have been a free-kick out to Ireland.

Just because the rule books don't mention cheating doesn't mean a certain act cannot be considered cheating.

I'm pretty sure the rule book doesn't mention gravity either, but you can be fairly sure gravity has an impact on the game!

starbelgrade

smcgiff wrote: »

Just because the rule books don't mention cheating doesn't mean a certain act cannot be considered cheating.

If you play a game that is governed by rules, a breaking of the rules is just a breaking of the rules, nothing more, nothing less. If you judge a game by the rules of life, by your own feelings, by your own emotions, then call it what you will. It ultimately is pointless as it has no influence on how the game is played, or indeed, the end result.

smcgiff wrote: »

I'm pretty sure the rule book doesn't mention gravity either, but you can be fairly sure gravity has an impact on the game!

As it does with pretty much everything that happens on this planet. You can be fairly sure that there is no legislation on earth that strives to determine it's impact.

smcgiff

starbelgrade... If it quacks and waddles it's a bloody Duck

By deliberately handling the ball twice and conning the ref in the processes of scoring it's cheating.

The penalty, if discovered, within in the game may be simply a free kick, but outside the game he will be seen for what he is - A cheat.

What sound does a frog make? Robbit Robbit!

The result is the same Ireland are out of the World Cup.

Thirdfox

starbelgrade wrote: »

I don't know. I would suppose that it depends on the rules of the examination board.

What I do know however, is the rules of football & in the rulebook, the word "cheating" does not exist. There are rules & there are punishments for breaking the rules. Henry broke a rule & should have been punished by the rules, which, as a minor offence, should have been a free-kick out to Ireland.

Why must you lie? Or mis-comprehend the rules of the game?

I decided to call you up on your assertion that it is a minor offence and a caution is normally not given.

Here is the rulebook from fifa.com:
http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/federation/81/42/36/lawsofthegameen.pdf

page 113

Disciplinary sanctions
There are circumstances when a caution for unsporting behaviour is required
when a player deliberately handles the ball, e.g. when a player:
• deliberately and blatantly handles the ball to prevent an opponent gaining
possession
• attempts to score a goal by deliberately handling the ball
A player is sent off, however, if he prevents a goal or an obvious goal-scoring
opportunity by deliberately handling the ball. This punishment arises not from
the act of the player deliberately handling the ball but from the unacceptable
and unfair intervention that prevented a goal being scored.

Seems like a caution is required at the very least for "unsporting behaviour" for deliberate handling of the ball with intent.

Next time before you rant, please have a proper read of the rules of the game.

smcgiff wrote: »

starbelgrade... If it quacks and waddles it's a bloody Duck

By deliberately handling the ball twice and conning the ref in the processes of scoring it's cheating.

The penalty, if discovered, within in the game may be simply a free kick, but outside the game he will be seen for what he is - A cheat.

What sound does a frog make? Robbit Robbit!

The result is the same Ireland are out of the World Cup.

I don't think his assertion that it is "minor" is correct at all. A caution is required at the least and perhaps a red card if we were to reverse the principle of "unacceptable and unfair intervention that prevented a goal being scored" - but I'm not arguing that. Just his assertion that the penalty for handling the ball in that situation would be a minor issue of a free kick.

Robbie Keane's handball - without intent - was a free kick. Henry's...not so much.

starbelgrade

smcgiff wrote: »

Ireland are out of the World Cup.

You have to qualify, compete & be knocked out of a World Cup to be "out of the World Cup". No Semantics required there.

BTW., what quacks & waddles like a bloody duck, but isn't one?

A duck impersonator.

Quack!

smcgiff

starbelgrade wrote: »

A duck impersonator.

Quack!

Jaysus... When's your ban up in the soccer forum. Perhaps we could start a petition! :D

starbelgrade

Thirdfox wrote: »

Why must you lie? Or mis-comprehend the rules of the game?

I decided to call you up on your assertion that it is a minor offence and a caution is normally not given.

Here is the rulebook from fifa.com:
http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/federation/81/42/36/lawsofthegameen.pdf

page 113


Seems like a caution is required at the very least for "unsporting behaviour" for deliberate handling of the ball with intent.

Next time before you rant, please have a proper read of the rules of the game.



I don't think his assertion that it is "minor" is correct at all. A caution is required at the least and perhaps a red card if we were to reverse the principle of "unacceptable and unfair intervention that prevented a goal being scored" - but I'm not arguing that. Just his assertion that the penalty for handling the ball in that situation would be a minor issue of a free kick.

Robbie Keane's handball - without intent - was a free kick. Henry's...not so much.

It makes no difference if it's a free kick or a red card - my point still stands - handling the ball is a breaking of the rules & whether or not it is punishable is neither here nor there. Find me the page that says "cheating", and I'll retract all I said.

starbelgrade

smcgiff wrote: »

Jaysus... When's your ban up in the soccer forum. Perhaps we could start a petition! :D

Tomorrow, I think. As you can see, I have a monkey on my back. And Stephen Ireland definitely IS a tosser - it's in the FIFA rulebook, part 2, paragraph 13. It's the LAW!

Thirdfox

Oh no, I'm just saying that your statements are quite incorrect - and by association casting doubt on the validity of your opinions in general. Feel free to change your stance after the fact but I don't need you to retract what you say - just reveal the holes in your argument (I'm keeping my thoughts to myself, at least on this forum).

starbelgrade

Thirdfox wrote: »

Oh no, I'm just saying that your statements are quite incorrect - and by association casting doubt on the validity of your opinions in general. Feel free to change your stance after the fact but I don't need you to retract what you say - just reveal the holes in your argument (I'm keeping my thoughts to myself, at least on this forum).

Feel free to pick holes - there are obviously some as you have pointed out. I as ever stand to be corrected & am grateful for you pointing oit the updated rules. My point however still stands & holds it's validity - there is no mention of cheating in the rulebook & it is not a punishable offence. If you can prove me wrong, then I will change my stance as I have doen on many occasion, though never retrospectively. ie., I don't edit posts apart from typos.

callig

marko91 wrote: »

we had them...they knew we had them...we knew we had them all the way til henry CHEATED

We were all over them first half but we didn't look as aggressive after our subs came on, France were starting to get back into it.

CHD

callig wrote: »

We were all over them first half but we didn't look as aggressive after our subs came on, France were starting to get back into it.

But were losing.... then cheated.

lugha

CHD wrote: »

But were losing.... then cheated.

Really, all this reference to cheating is a bit OTT. Again I ask was Kilbane fouling his man to snuff out an attack (something you would typically see a half dozen times in any match) cheating? If you are going to label a player who deliberately breaks the rules as a cheat, surely you have to be consistent?

CHD

lugha wrote: »

Really, all this reference to cheating is a bit OTT. Again I ask was Kilbane fouling his man to snuff out an attack (something you would typically see a half dozen times in any match) cheating? If you are going to label a player who deliberately breaks the rules as a cheat, surely you have to be consistent?

Yeah you do and I am. But look how vital Henry' peice of cheating was compare to any other small things.

lugha

CHD wrote: »

Yeah you do and I am. But look how vital Henry' peice of cheating was compare to any other small things.

But surely it's about intent? If Gallas hadn't finished from Henry then the handball would be a non issue. We can't quantify the effect of a defender fouling an opponent but the ultimate purpose is to prevent a goal being scored. For me the intent is the same.

That_Guy

I've been holding off for the past two days to post anything about this match to calm myself down about it.

Having spent the past two days listening to SSN, Sky News, reading newspapers and coming across several "hate sites" I can honestly say that is time for some people to grow up.

I am as passionate a football fan as anybody and for the first time in a very long time I can hold my head up high and actually say that I am very very proud of our lads. Every single one of them.
It is easily the best performance I've seen from them in years. They did our country proud and despite the injustice of the handball they didn't react angrily in any way which is always good to see.

When I was watching the match on RTE, Geroge Hamilton called Henry a "thief". An exaggeration if I've ever heard one. Yes, we were all upset and angry over what happened and has now left our nation in uproar but to hack wikipedia accounts, setting up "kill Henry" type Facebook groups is a bit much imo.

There are tons of people calling for his head and it's just not right. Henry for 8 years in the premier league was arguably one of the best players to set foot in the English game. His commitment, his general play and his manner were everything you could want for in a player.

Henry, imo is still a top class player. This handball is unbelievably controversial and it will have tarnished his name but being the good natured person that Henry is, I believe he can come back from this and deserves a second chance.

I'm not even mad at Henry and he is certainly not a cheat by any means. Over his whole career this is by far the worst thing he has done so I honestly don't see how he can be a cheat for his first major mistake.
The only player I can really think of who you could classify as a cheat is Drogba from Chelsea and I wouldn't even put Drogba and Henry in the same category as each other.

Yes we're angry as a nation but we shouldn't be focusing on one player. We should be focusing on the referee and linesman. Looking at various replays from all angles, the ref was in no position to see it but the linesman was. He had a clear view of what was going on but didn't raise his flag or anything. Even before that a French player was offside and still no decision was called and the series of events were allowed to continue.

The time is now for FIFA to allow video technology into the game. Human error has cost us dearly. If we can't get the match replayed then the least they can do is introduce video techonology to get rid of any further injustices that will arise in the future.

As a football team we can take great positives from Wednesday's game and our future seems brighter than ever.

Fair play to you, our boys in green.

znv6i3h7kqf9ys

NEW IDEA How about we forget about the Replay. It would be better if we got a BYE into the World cup and were put in a Group with ITALY & FRANCE

Biggins

super_metroid wrote: »

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/05/08/article-0-04DC4692000005DC-171_468x309.jpg

Tell Gillette to stop funding the thief !

The new version!

lugha

That_Guy wrote: »

When I was watching the match on RTE, Geroge Hamilton called Henry a "thief". An exaggeration if I've ever heard one. Yes, we were all upset and angry over what happened and has now left our nation in uproar but to hack wikipedia accounts, setting up "kill Henry" type Facebook groups is a bit much imo.

There are tons of people calling for his head and it's just not right. Henry for 8 years in the premier league was arguably one of the best players to set foot in the English game. His commitment, his general play and his manner were everything you could want for in a player.

Well said!

That_Guy wrote: »

Yes we're angry as a nation but we shouldn't be focusing on one player. We should be focusing on the referee and linesman. Looking at various replays from all angles, the ref was in no position to see it but the linesman was. He had a clear view of what was going on but didn't raise his flag or anything. Even before that a French player was offside and still no decision was called and the series of events were allowed to continue.

The linesman is interesting. He did have a clear view right across the box so his vision certainly wasn’t impeded. But it is worth remembering that he is not a linesman, he is an assistant referee. He would have to try and keep an eye on all the going ons in the box, I suspect anyone would have missed the handball unless they were solely focused on the ball at the time. And even then, the offending hand would have been obscured by the ball. The greater crime was to miss the offside but alas such errors happen with sufficient regularity that you would have to conclude that they are difficult calls to make.

That_Guy wrote: »

the least they can do is introduce video technology to get rid of reduce any further injustices that will arise in the future.

Fixed! :pac:

Fighting Irish

The guys played well and probably should have won but they didn't. France won the match, there won't be a replay and Henry done what most footballers would do to help their team win.

Prof.Badass

Just got banned indefinitely from wikipedia .

If any good is to come from this (and i personally very much doubt there'll be a replay), it will be through continued internet activism. The more of a presence we have online, the more fifa will be forced to take notice ("kill henry" groups are a step too far though).

As for my ban? Totally worth it :cool:. I had a good run .

prinz

That_Guy wrote: »

I'm not even mad at Henry and he is certainly not a cheat by any means. Over his whole career this is by far the worst thing he has done so I honestly don't see how he can be a cheat for his first major mistake.

Nope, he has done similar things in the past, i.e. going down holding his face v. puyol, deliberately attempting to get him booked. He's a smug git who still won't admit to what he did. Hand to ball... why can't he just say yes he handled it deliberately... o no theirry sorry it just happened to bounce off your forearm, off your fingers and land magically at the tip of your toe.

That_Guy wrote: »

As a football team we can take great positives from Wednesday's game and our future seems brighter than ever..

The backbone of the team that played Wednesday night will not make another World Cup qualification...... it may well be argued that many won't make the Euro's either.

GavRedKing

I was at the game, gutted to say the least.

But all things considered we should have won it in 90 minutes and we should have defended the free kick better, it was a striaght free kick that travelled about 40 yards but that doesnt take away from what Henry did, all in all well done the team and all the supporters who made the trip.

OutlawPete

smcgiff wrote: »

starbelgrade... If it quacks and waddles it's a bloody Duck

Not necessarily .. #