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The Match **DO NOT START OTHER MATCH THREADS**

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    #752
    OutlawPete
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,689 ✭✭✭✭OutlawPete


    winston82 wrote: »
    Maybe you should stop telling people what they should or shouldn't say.

    I'm not telling people what they should and shouldn't say. I'm pointing out that to just say "Get over it" or "Move on" is irritating in the extreme.

    Say it by all means but as long as people do so they will be called out on it as if people are posting views on a thread it is because they wish to discuss the topic.

    They are not posting for any other reason than this which unfortunately, cannot be said for those that post the "Get Over It' and 'Move On' remarks.

    One set of people are positive (maybe even a little optimistic) and the others are negative.
    winston82 wrote: »
    Also, imo, video replays would not be good for the game. Its football, stuff happens that we don't agree with all the time. We have to be able to take a good beating, even if we strongly disagree.

    This last paragraph was full of wrongness.


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    #753
    Ulysses Gaze
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,570 ✭✭✭Ulysses Gaze


    Also, imo, video replays would not be good for the game. Its football, stuff happens that we don't agree with all the time. We have to be able to take a good beating, even if we strongly disagree.

    I don't agree with this but see where FIFA, UEFA the FA etc WOULD agree with you.It keeps the game interesting, controversial, engaging and gets fans talking on the net and at work.

    I would love to see video-replays ala Rugby. It's worked wonders in that sport.

    Btw good old Roy 'Get Over It' Keane's Ipswich drew 0-0 at home today against a poor Sheff Wed. Obviously not taking their chances but at least they kept a clean sheet for once this season. :)


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    #754
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    winston82 wrote: »
    Also, imo, video replays would not be good for the game. Its football, stuff happens that we don't agree with all the time. We have to be able to take a good beating, even if we strongly disagree.

    What, in your mind, constitutes "a good beating" ?

    Being beaten fairly and squarely ? No problem. By a better team ? No problem.

    Being cheated out of winning this match is NOT "a good beating" by any stretch of the imagination.


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    #755
    winston82
    Registered Users Posts: 1,051 ✭✭✭winston82


    OutlawPete wrote: »
    This last paragraph was full of wrongness.

    Why?


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    #756
    winston82
    Registered Users Posts: 1,051 ✭✭✭winston82


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    What, in your mind, constitutes "a good beating" ?

    Being beaten fairly and squarely ? No problem. By a better team ? No problem.

    Being cheated out of winning this match is NOT "a good beating" by any stretch of the imagination.

    any beating is a good beating. There is never going to be a middle ground on the video replay issue. The losing team will want it and the winners won't. It will even itself out over time. It's unfortunate we were on the recieving end this time but maybe one day we will have ours.

    Bottom line, this is not rugby, FIFA don't want it. A controversial decision as big as this one happens few and far between. Football is doin ok without slowing the game up, and as Ulysses said, adds a bit of controversy & excitement.


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    #757
    OutlawPete
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,689 ✭✭✭✭OutlawPete


    winston82 wrote: »
    Why?

    Well, for a start 'Video Replays' would help the game no end. Would prevent the sort of injustice happening again that has just happened us. It would also be quite enjoyable to watch.

    Would stop diving as they could bring in a system where if your caught diving during a game you get an instant red card.

    You say "Its football, stuff happens" like this means anything of note or is a strong argument againist the points made to you.

    Also you state "We have to be able to take a good beating, even if we strongly disagree" .. no team should have to take a beating because of cheating and video evidence would help that.


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    #758
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,069 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    winston82 wrote: »
    Bottom line, this is not rugby, FIFA don't want it.

    How can FIFA champion fair-play etc when the system they choose to incorporate is systematically unfair? And how do they expect players or fans to listen to them when they're against actually enforcing it?


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    #759
    winston82
    Registered Users Posts: 1,051 ✭✭✭winston82


    OutlawPete wrote: »
    Well, for a start 'Video Replays' would help the game no end. Would prevent the sort of injustice happening again that has just happened us. It would also be quite enjoyable to watch.

    Would stop diving as they could bring in a system where if your caught diving during a game you get an instant red card.

    You say "Its football, stuff happens" like this means anything of note or is a strong argument againist the points made to you.

    Also you state "We have to be able to take a good beating, even if we strongly disagree" .. no team should have to take a beating because of cheating and video evidence would help that.

    So would every single club in the world have the luxury of a video replay? Should this only be top clubs in the world and internationals. Only important clubs. There are football injustices all over the world.

    Would you be calling for these video replays and signing petitions if Robbie Keane handled the ball? I think we may let this one slide and wait until the next injustice.


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    #760
    lugha
    Registered Users Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭lugha


    OutlawPete wrote: »
    .. no team should have to take a beating because of cheating and video evidence would help that.
    That would lead to one of our more potent weapons to be disarmed. Quite a few of the frees won by Duff would not be given if the ref had an opportunity to have a second look at them.


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    #761
    OutlawPete
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,689 ✭✭✭✭OutlawPete


    winston82 wrote: »
    Would you be calling for these video replays and signing petitions if Robbie Keane handled the ball?

    Maybe not, but I wouldn't be knocking the unfortunate country that it happened to if they were applealing the decision and calling for video evidence.


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    #762
    OutlawPete
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,689 ✭✭✭✭OutlawPete


    lugha wrote: »
    That would lead to one of our more potent weapons to be disarmed. Quite a few of the frees won by Duff would not be given if the ref had an opportunity to have a second look at them.

    Maybe, but they would have been down to ten men by then as Anelka would have been sent of for diving!


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    #763
    The Pontiac
    Registered Users Posts: 3,417 ✭✭✭The Pontiac


    lugha wrote: »
    That would lead to one of our more potent weapons to be disarmed. Quite a few of the frees won by Duff would not be given if the ref had an opportunity to have a second look at them.

    No game is going to be 100% fair. In Rugby, video evidence is only used when the referee is unsure if the player grounds the ball. It's not used for a knock-on or conversion. It's a simple matter of making the game as fair as possible, without disrupting the game too much. It's takes around 20 seconds in Rugby to clarify these major decisions..


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    #764
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    winston82 wrote: »
    The losing team will want it and the winners won't. It will even itself out over time. It's unfortunate we were on the recieving end this time but maybe one day we will have ours.

    It has nothing to do with whether you win or lose; you could lose without any controversy, cheating or fvck-up.

    And I don't EVER want to see us "win" a match through blatant cheating. So I hope we never "have our day".
    winston82 wrote: »
    Bottom line, this is not rugby, FIFA don't want it. A controversial decision as big as this one happens few and far between. Football is doin ok without slowing the game up, and as Ulysses said, adds a bit of controversy & excitement.

    The fourth official saw it immediately, so it wouldn't have "slowed anything up".

    And the fact that FIFA's match report didn't contain any reference to the controversy shows that something is SERIOUSLY suspect; they've apparently added it since, but they wanted to ignore it for some reason.

    Weeding out the cheating and the controversies would only help the game. As it is, I've no interest in watching the World Cup; not because Ireland aren't there, but because of what it represents - win at all costs and ignore the controversies because it suits them.


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    #765
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,069 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    The FFF actually agreed to a replay only for it to be blocked by Domenech =o

    according to tomorrows newspapers as featured on "Premier Soccer Saturday"


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    #766
    winston82
    Registered Users Posts: 1,051 ✭✭✭winston82


    Liam Byrne wrote: »

    Weeding out the cheating and the controversies would only help the game. As it is, I've no interest in watching the World Cup; not because Ireland aren't there, but because of what it represents - win at all costs and ignore the controversies because it suits them.

    So if Robbie Keane scored with his hand you would have absolutely no interest in next years World Cup if we made it through? I somehow doubt that. LOL at at the whinging. Most Irish players have cheated in one way or another on the road to the WC - Keane, Duff, Dunne etc... Did you post about that? Did you moan about that?

    A replay was/is never, ever, ever going to happen. France can agree to whatever they want. This is football. Not rugby, not tennis, football.


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    #767
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    winston82 wrote: »
    So if Robbie Keane scored with his hand you would have absolutely no interest in next years World Cup if we made it through? I somehow doubt that.

    You can doubt all you like but I believe in fair play.

    If an Irish player had done the same I'd be supporting calls for a replay and I'd want to see that player banned for bringing the game into disrepute.

    Play fair or don't play.

    If it was dealt with correctly and punished accordingly (even if it were only the FAI sidelining the player) then I might watch. But ONLY if the issue was dealt with and disciplined and not ignored.
    winston82 wrote: »
    LOL at at the whinging.

    What "whinging" ? Do you use that word for everything you disagree with ?

    I've stated facts, and I've stated that I'd view them the same either way.

    winston82 wrote: »
    Most Irish players have cheated in one way or another on the road to the WC - Keane, Duff, Dunne etc... Did you post about that? Did you moan about that?

    Do you have links to prove this ? If so, post them and we'll discuss each in turn.
    winston82 wrote: »
    A replay was/is never, ever, ever going to happen. France can agree to whatever they want. This is football. Not rugby, not tennis, football.

    Yup, it's the current version of "football", which is corrupt and tainted; Henry did this before, pretending that he was elbowed in the face.

    But having seen everything from Spurs score a cracker against ManU only for it to be ignored (linesman incompetency) to two French players trying to con the ref on Wed (cheating, but the ref didn't fall for it) to the biggest cheat/con/fvck up and the resultant lies and sweeing it under the carpet, then no - I won't be watching FIFA's "unfair play" themed World Cup, and I hope that RTE refuse to spend the licence fee on it as a two-fingers to the corrupt scum that are running FIFA.....

    Whatever about the issues with seeding, etc, not even including the biggest talking point of the match in their match report shows just how deluded they are.


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    #768
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    My name is URL wrote: »
    The FFF actually agreed to a replay only for it to be blocked by Domenech =o

    according to tomorrows newspapers as featured on "Premier Soccer Saturday"

    Interesting....... could it be that because he is already hated at home and abroad he just said "bring on the flak, I can take it".


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    #769
    That_Guy
    Registered Users Posts: 51,342 ✭✭✭✭That_Guy


    mikom wrote: »
    Interesting....... could it be that because he is already hated at home and abroad he just said "bring on the flak, I can take it".

    I reckon it's to do with the amount of money he received to actually get France to the World Cup.

    Too scared of losing it.


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    #770
    aDeener
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,487 ✭✭✭aDeener


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    You can doubt all you like but I believe in fair play.

    If an Irish player had done the same I'd be supporting calls for a replay and I'd want to see that player banned for bringing the game into disrepute.

    Play fair or don't play.

    If it was dealt with correctly and punished accordingly (even if it were only the FAI sidelining the player) then I might watch. But ONLY if the issue was dealt with and disciplined and not ignored.



    What "whinging" ? Do you use that word for everything you disagree with ?

    I've stated facts, and I've stated that I'd view them the same either way.




    Do you have links to prove this ? If so, post them and we'll discuss each in turn.



    Yup, it's the current version of "football", which is corrupt and tainted; Henry did this before, pretending that he was elbowed in the face.

    But having seen everything from Spurs score a cracker against ManU only for it to be ignored (linesman incompetency) to two French players trying to con the ref on Wed (cheating, but the ref didn't fall for it) to the biggest cheat/con/fvck up and the resultant lies and sweeing it under the carpet, then no - I won't be watching FIFA's "unfair play" themed World Cup, and I hope that RTE refuse to spend the licence fee on it as a two-fingers to the corrupt scum that are running FIFA.....

    Whatever about the issues with seeding, etc, not even including the biggest talking point of the match in their match report shows just how deluded they are.


    i didnt hear any calls for a replay with georgia


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    #771
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,069 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    That_Guy wrote: »
    I reckon it's to do with the amount of money he received to actually get France to the World Cup.

    Too scared of losing it.

    http://msn.foxsports.com/soccer/story/10402592


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    #772
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    aDeener wrote: »
    i didnt hear any calls for a replay with georgia

    Remind me again of the exact circumstances and whether there was obvious intentional cheating that was not dealt with by the ref.


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    #773
    Agricola
    Registered Users Posts: 6,547 ✭✭✭Agricola


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    Remind me again of the exact circumstances and whether there was obvious intentional cheating that was not dealt with by the ref.

    Beat me to it dude!


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    #774
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    Remind me again of the exact circumstances and whether there was obvious intentional cheating that was not dealt with by the ref.



    What about Duff versus Spain in 2002?


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    #775
    aDeener
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,487 ✭✭✭aDeener


    firstly robbie keane was offside, secondly there was no handball in the box.
    where was the honesty of the irish players that many here are crying about henrys lack of? ireland got a goal from said penalty just as france got a goal from henrys handball, ruining georgia just as france ruined ireland.

    honesty is only applicable when it suits eh? :rolleyes:


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    #776
    lugha
    Registered Users Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭lugha


    So can we expect a campaign in the interests of fair play from you guys the next time Ireland plays if any defender deliberately checks or fouls an opponent or if a midfielder lets his marker “know he's there” with an early clatter or an attacker goes to ground after the slightest or possibly no contact? What Henry did was no worst than any of these except that the benefit of his actions to his own team and the consequences to ours were enormous. But fair play has nothing to do with the stakes.


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    #777
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    aDeener wrote: »
    firstly robbie keane was offside, secondly there was no handball in the box.
    where was the honesty of the irish players that many here are crying about henrys lack of? ireland got a goal from said penalty just as france got a goal from henrys handball, ruining georgia just as france ruined ireland.

    honesty is only applicable when it suits eh? :rolleyes:

    Sorry, but that is 100% bull****!

    Was Robbie deliberately offside ?
    Was there deliberately no handball ?

    We're not talking general refereeing mistakes here; we're talking about blatant cheating!!!!

    The above ARE annoying, and I'd be uncomfortable with them, but they are significantly different.

    My question was
    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    Remind me again of the exact circumstances and whether there was obvious intentional cheating that was not dealt with by the ref.

    I guess the answer is "there was none".


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    #778
    TomTom
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 3,290 ✭✭✭TomTom


    http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/french-agree-to-replay-in-tullamore-after-irish-war-threat-shifts-goalposts-1950214.html


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    #779
    pH
    Registered Users Posts: 4,188 ✭✭✭pH


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    We're not talking general refereeing mistakes here; we're talking about blatant cheating!!!!

    No you're blowing up a single foul against Ireland out of all proportion, deciding that what happened *to* Ireland is exactly where a line should be drawn, and conveniently relegating all other fouls as somehow lesser.

    Deliberate handball to control the ball as an attacker is actually not considered an especially serious foul, on an average day it would be a toss up if it even got a yellow card.

    How you can argue that somehow one handball in the box is an international incident of "blatant cheating", yet countless other trips, dives, pulls, pushes, blocks are not is beyond me.

    By all means call for video replays - I personally don't think they would ever work, because I could almost guarantee that with 10+ players in the penalty box on a slo-mo replay anyone could find a foul in 9 out of 10 corners or free kicks. Just look at the Henry handball footage again, Dunne uses an elbow/forearm to check another French player in the face, anywhere else on the pitch that's a free kick, so why not a penalty?


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    #780
    Corkfeen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,940 ✭✭✭Corkfeen


    Is it just me or does anyone else think that we should just find something else to be annoyed about now. I have an odd feeling this thread will still be going next june. :D


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    #781
    lugha
    Registered Users Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭lugha


    pH wrote: »
    How you can argue that somehow one handball in the box is an international incident of "blatant cheating", yet countless other trips, dives, pulls, pushes
    This is much the point I have been making. I think eventually they will realize that you cannot make a very strong argument and decide to *** ** **. Some of us just got there more quickly. :D


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