Henry should be banned from the World Cup

el dude

Would be the only outcome now that would restore any kind of faith/credibility to a sport severly lacking it. Replay was never going to happen, can accept that. I just want to see something done by the authorities that says, 'what Henry did was wrong', that simple.

Johnny Utah

el dude wrote: »

Would be the only outcome now that would restore any kind of faith/credibility to a sport severly lacking it. Replay was never going to happen, can accept that. I just want to see something done by the authorities that says, 'what Henry did was wrong', that simple.

Yeah, I agree the authorities have to take action against Henry at the very least. Can you imagine if this was golf- he get a lifetime ban, yet football tries to turn a blind eye to the most heinous form of cheating.

greendom

Johnny Utah wrote: »

So one form of cheating is acceptable, but another is not...

Oliver Neuville received a 2 match ban for throwing the ball into the net in a German league match. Henry's handball happened in a much bigger match, which was watched around the world. Players careers and a nation's hopes and dreams were dashed by a moment of blatant cheating. Given the circumstances, he needs to be banned from next summer's World Cup. If Fifa want to espouse an image of 'fair play' then I'm adamant he needs to be banned.

I didn't say it was acceptable - it's a yellow card offence. Drug offences are taken much more seriously.

The importance or audience of the match should have no bearing on the punishment. How would that work? Once you get to the knock out stages of the WC any yellow card offence automatically becomes a red card?

I can accept however that the Neuville incident does provide a precedent that Henry could get a 2 game ban. I can't see France playing any more than 3 games anyway

kinaldo

In fact the editor of Marca is on Newstalk right now talking about why they gave it a double page spread today...

some good cheating videos here

http://www.marca.com/2009/11/19/futbol/futbol_internacional/1258636570.html

greendom

kinaldo wrote: »

In fact the editor of Marca is on Newstalk right now talking about why they gave it a double page spread today...

How often does he mention "Madrileno bias", I wonder...

kinaldo

greendom wrote: »

How often does he mention "Madrileno bias", I wonder...

he actually said he doesn't really blame Henry at all, but rather the refs.

So there goes the anti-Barca theory.

Johnny Utah

greendom wrote: »

I didn't say it was acceptable - it's a yellow card offence. Drug offences are taken much more seriously.

The importance or audience of the match should have no bearing on the punishment. How would that work? Once you get to the knock out stages of the WC any yellow card offence automatically becomes a red card?

I can accept however that the Neuville incident does provide a precedent that Henry could get a 2 game ban. I can't see France playing any more than 3 games anyway

So make this example of cheating a precedent. A serious ban for Henry might make other cheaters around the world sit up and think for a second before they go diving, feigning inury, timewasting, etc.

If we let this go, the game will become a farce, an absolute farce.

greendom

kinaldo wrote: »

he actually said he doesn't really blame Henry at all, but rather the refs.

So there goes the anti-Barca theory.

Ok maybe in this instance but normally they take every opportunity they can get.

Interesting though yesterday I was listening to that Guilem Balague guy who's on Sky Sports for the Spanish football; he was saying that the culture in Spain is that it's down to the referee to spot foul play and if players can get away with it, that's fair enough

jprender

I see Sky News have a banner breaking the news that Thierry henry reckons that it would be fair to have a replay of the game.

BaZmO*

Johnny Utah wrote: »

It's world news in fairness.

Here's the responses from the Italian papers.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2009/1120/1224259177783.html

THE HEADLINES in Italy’s specialist sports press yesterday said it all. Gazzetta Dello Sport carried a front page banner title that read, “Trap, What a Rip-Off!”, Tuttosport had another front page headline, reading “Trap Mugged, France Go Through Thanks To A Bogus Goal” whilst Corriere Dello Sport’ s front page read simply “France, What A Scandal!”

Even though Italy ran out 1-0 winners of a friendly against Sweden in Cesena last night, Marcello Lippi’s Azzurri took a clear second place to Ireland in the extensive media coverage afforded to Ireland’s luckless World Cup elimination by France in Paris last night.

Throughout this World Cup campaign, Italian media have paid much, usually favourable attention to the exploits of Ireland manager Giovanni Trapattoni and his “men in green”.

Most Italian commentators expressed a sense of outrage, arguing that Ireland and il vecchio Trap had been “robbed”. Many inevitably made reference to the controversial referee who oversaw the elimination of the Trapattoni coached Italy by South Korea at the 2002 World Cup.

Typical was this front page comment from Gazzetta Dello Sport : “Il vecchio Trap (old Trap) has been thrown out of the South African World Cup finals by a vile goal, scored in extra-time by Henry with a handball move, and one that was condoned by the referee Hansson.

“Another Moreno, another world cup scandal and all in the France of (Uefa president) Michel Platini . . . it is absolutely incredible that at the beginning of the third millennium such an important game can be decided by such an obviously irregular goal. We all saw it. Is it possible that the referee’s assistant did not see it? It would make you want to institute instant, side of pitch, slow-motion replays. And now we want to see some sort of exemplary punishment for both Henry and Hansson”

Corriere Dello Sport touched on the same old Trapattoni sore point, namely Ecuadorian referee Byron Moreno, saying: “For poor old Trap, after Moreno in 2002, another scandalous piece of refereeing . . . In the end, he was beaten by a clearly foul goal, created by two hand balls from Henry . . . ”

Turin sports daily, Tuttosport likewise expressed outrage at the match result, commenting: “Domenech’s France go to the World Cup finals thanks to a foul goal, created by a handball by Henry . . . Having given everything, more than everything, Trap’s Ireland had to give in . . . ”

Rome daily, La Repubblica concluded that luck had not been with Trapattoni and Ireland on the night, writing: “After Keane’s goal, Ireland were dreaming that they might make it, perhaps in a penalty shoot-out. Unfortunately for him, Trap found two obstacles on the road to South Africa, namely Italy and France, the two finalists at Berlin 2006. He was not lucky, our Trap, the door was slammed in his face by Swedish referee Hansson.”

La Repubblica added, however, that Trapattoni deserved a full round of applause for the Irish performance, saying: “After all the endless recriminations, hope has gone. A round of applause, please, for Mr Hope (Trapattoni).”

I was reading something similar yesterday from the French
press but can't find the link.


Just on the subject of FIFA not being able to change the rules by banning Henry. Personally I don't agree with them making up new rule exceptions after an incident has happened. It's much better if the rule was there in the first place. However, it's an exceptional case in that it was such a high profile match and a showcase for the game we all love, and exceptional cases call for exceptional actions. If FIFA are shown to do absolutely nothing it doesn't show the game in a good and fair light.

It just saddens me that FIFA won't do the right thing.

greendom

Johnny Utah wrote: »

So make this example of cheating a precedent. A serious ban for Henry might make other cheaters around the world sit up and think for a second before they go diving, feigning inury, timewasting, etc.

If we let this go, the game will become a farce, an absolute farce.

The game will carry on - it's been through worse crises before -

It may though be the catalyst to finally bring in video referees or the extra linesmen behind the 2 goals

Mitch Connor

jprender wrote: »

I see Sky News have a banner breaking the news that Thierry henry reckons that it would be fair to have a replay of the game.

nicely timed to come out after FIFA have ruled it out.

Means nothing, wouldn't be surprised to find he was laughing as he said it too, while booking some accommodation for his family in South Africa for June/July.

BaZmO*

jprender wrote: »

I see Sky News have a banner breaking the news that Thierry henry reckons that it would be fair to have a replay of the game.

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11095_5706981,00.html

"I have said at the time and I will say again that yes I handled the ball.

"I am not a cheat and never have been. It was an instinctive reaction to a ball that was coming extremely fast in a crowded penalty area.

"As a footballer you do not have the luxury of the television to slow the pace of the ball down 100 times to be able to make a conscious decision.

"People are viewing a slow motion version of what happened and not what I or any other footballer faces in the game.

"If people look at it in full speed you will see that it was an instinctive reaction. It is impossible to be anything other than that.

"I have never denied that the ball was controlled with my hand. I told the Irish players, the referee and the media this after the game.

"Naturally I feel embarrassed at the way that we won and feel extremely sorry for the Irish who definitely deserve to be in South Africa.

"Of course the fairest solution would be to replay the game, but it is not in my control.

"There is little more I can do apart from admit that the ball had contact with my hand leading up to our equalising goal and I feel very sorry for the Irish."

gosplan

There are a fair few threads floating about in the aftermath of the Ireland France game but this one is really the most idiotic.

Anyone with a clue about football that is still thinking rationally will say of course Henry shouldn't be banned.

Football has a problem. Very tight games often come down to who get's the benefit of the ref's decisions on the night.

The system is broke. This isn't Henry's fault and it's not the ref's fault either. They simply get the blame because FIFA won't face up to the obvious problem within the game.

Mitch Connor

BaZmO* wrote: »

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11095_5706981,00.html

An instinctive reaction twice.

Even it is instinctive (yes TH, of course it is instinctive for a pro footballer who has been an outfielder all his life and a pro at it for over a decade to try to catch the ball, sure it is) it would just show that he instinctively cheats.

The 'more' you could have done was not try to take advantage of your deliberate (instinctively stopped it, then instinctively caressed it with your hand to EXACTLY where you need it to go, great instincts....) handball. Having done so, you could have gone immediately to the ref and told him (not after the game and use that to show what a gentleman you are).

Fair play: Fowler didn't think it was a penalty and said it immediately.
Fair play: Di Canio didn't want to take advantage of an injured keeper.
Fair play: Zamora thought Carragher got the ball, told the ref immediately.

Manipulative Cheat: Henry handles the ball twice, celebrates the goal, doesn't admit it til after the game, still claims it was an accident, says he just exploited a situation that could be exploited, says someone who says he should have told the ref immediately is a joker and laughs at him, waits til FIFA rule out a replay and then comes out with a statement in which he STILL LIES.

Johnny Utah

gosplan wrote: »

There are a fair few threads floating about in the aftermath of the Ireland France game but this one is really the most idiotic.

Anyone with a clue about football that is still thinking rationally will say of course Henry shouldn't be banned.

Football has a problem. Very tight games often come down to who get's the benefit of the ref's decisions on the night.

The system is broke. This isn't Henry's fault and it's not the ref's fault either. They simply get the blame because FIFA won't face up to the obvious problem within the game.

Please don't call my thread 'idiotic'. And how can you possibly absolve Henry from any guilt. "This isn't Henry's fault"....... yeah right, someone made him do it- lol. He's nothing more than a cheat.

Mitch Connor

gosplan wrote: »

There are a fair few threads floating about in the aftermath of the Ireland France game but this one is really the most idiotic.

Anyone with a clue about football that is still thinking rationally will say of course Henry shouldn't be banned.

Football has a problem. Very tight games often come down to who get's the benefit of the ref's decisions on the night.

The system is broke. This isn't Henry's fault and it's not the ref's fault either. They simply get the blame because FIFA won't face up to the obvious problem within the game.

Henry gets blamed because he DELIBERATELY CHEATED.

He wasn't just offside, the ball didn't accidently hit his hand, he didn't have a shot bounce not quite over the line that was given as a goal - those issues are part of the game, they happen and are not malicious. Henry DELIBERATELY used his hands, twice, to control the ball and gain an advantage. he did it deliberately. that is not the refs fault, that is not FIFA's fault. Henry deliberately cheated cause he knew he could get away with it. the is his attitude, that is his decision, that is HIS FAULT.

greendom

Mitch Connor wrote: »

An instinctive reaction twice.

Even it is instinctive (yes TH, of course it is instinctive for a pro footballer who has been an outfielder all his life and a pro at it for over a decade to try to catch the ball, sure it is) it would just show that he instinctively cheats.

The 'more' you could have done was not try to take advantage of your deliberate (instinctively stopped it, then instinctively caressed it with your hand to EXACTLY where you need it to go, great instincts....) handball. Having done so, you could have gone immediately to the ref and told him (not after the game and use that to show what a gentleman you are).

Fair play: Fowler didn't think it was a penalty and said it immediately.
Fair play: Di Canio didn't want to take advantage of an injured keeper.
Fair play: Zamora thought Carragher got the ball, told the ref immediately.

Manipulative Cheat: Henry handles the ball twice, celebrates the goal, doesn't admit it til after the game, still claims it was an accident, says he just exploited a situation that could be exploited, says someone who says he should have told the ref immediately is a joker and laughs at him, waits til FIFA rule out a replay and then comes out with a statement in which he STILL LIES.

So are you saying that Henry is the exception - that cheating is not endemic in the game. We all know it goes on all the time and that's what makes the 3 cases you mention above so exceptional.

It would be interesting to put those 3 players in Henry's position on Wednesday night to see how they would have reacted.

jprender

Anyway, I think Gallas is to blame.

He saw Henry handle the ball; he should have headed the ball over the crossbar.

Mitch Connor

greendom wrote: »

So are you saying that Henry is the exception - that cheating is not endemic in the game. We all know it goes on all the time and that's what makes the 3 cases you mention above so exceptional.

It would be interesting to put those 3 players in Henry's position on Wednesday night to see how they would have reacted.

It is a problem in the game.

That doesn't absolve Henry.

People have held him up as an example to all footballers - he has used that to his advantage both on and off the pitch (his sponsorship deal).

He cheated, and he should be called on it. He wouldn't be the first played to be punished for similar events.

You do know that "Well everyone else was doing it" is not actually a good excuse, no matter how much we all used it as a kid.

As for whether the other player would have done the same, who knows. I do know Henry deliberately cheated, then celebrated his cheating, and lied about his cheating.

invincibleirish

SSN running with interesting Henry comments

greendom

Ok let's look at this from another perspective. Say the ref or linesman had spotted Henry's handling of the ball. Ireland are awarded a free-kick and Henry is yellow carded.

France eventually go on to win the game. Would you still want him banned from the WC?

I see Keane is mouthing off again about the FAI blah blah blah.

He makes himself sound really bitter with his rants. I guess it takes the focus of the shít job he's doing at Ipswich.

Aidric

Henry Winter's piece in the Telegraph has attracted heated commentary.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/international/republicofireland/6609355/Thierry-Henry-must-be-banned-from-playing-in-the-2010-World-Cup.html

greendom

greendom wrote: »

Ok let's look at this from another perspective. Say the ref or linesman had spotted Henry's handling of the ball. Ireland are awarded a free-kick and Henry is yellow carded.

France eventually go on to win the game. Would you still want him banned from the WC?

BaZmO*

greendom wrote: »

Ok let's look at this from another perspective. Say the ref or linesman had spotted Henry's handling of the ball. Ireland are awarded a free-kick and Henry is yellow carded.

France eventually go on to win the game. Would you still want him banned from the WC?

It didn't happened that way so there's no point in commenting on the what if's of an imagined scenario.

greendom

BaZmO* wrote: »

It didn't happened that way so there's no point in commenting on the what if's of an imagined scenario.

The point i'm making though is that if he receives more than a yellow card he is being punished for a mistake made by the referee.

greendom

rarnes1 wrote: »

Why has that confused you? It seemed like quite a simple supposition to me

Royale with Cheese

rarnes1 wrote: »

I see Keane is mouthing off again about the FAI blah blah blah.

He makes himself sound really bitter with his rants. I guess it takes the focus of the shít job he's doing at Ipswich.

For the first time, probably ever, I have to agree with Keane here.

RasTa

Some of the people on this thread need to listen to Keano.

France are going to the World Cup - get over it."

gosplan

Johnny Utah wrote: »

Please don't call my thread 'idiotic'. And how can you possibly absolve Henry from any guilt. "This isn't Henry's fault"....... yeah right, someone made him do it- lol. He's nothing more than a cheat.

Sorry, but it is idiotic.

Nearly everyone tries to break the rules in football including most of the Irish players. I carefully phrased my initial post to try and point out that if you think Henry should be singled out as a cheat among the massive amounts of footballers that try to break the rules you either

A - know nothing about football
B - aren't thinking rationally

gosplan

greendom wrote: »

Ok let's look at this from another perspective. Say the ref or linesman had spotted Henry's handling of the ball. Ireland are awarded a free-kick and Henry is yellow carded.

France eventually go on to win the game. Would you still want him banned from the WC?

Very good.

... or if Duffer dives for a free kick, which he's does quite often. We score from it and you demand that Duffer is banned from the world cup.

Seriously, some of the people here need to step back from this a bit and think about it rationally.

Anyone find any of the 'Barca should offer a replay and xxxxxxx should be banned' threads from after the Chelsea semi final last year yet?????

gosplan

BaZmO* wrote: »

It didn't happened that way so there's no point in commenting on the what if's of an imagined scenario.

Yeah, not unless you want a set of rules or something crazy like that.

Mr Alan

gosplan wrote: »

Very good.

... or if Duffer dives for a free kick, which he's does quite often. We score from it and you demand that Duffer is banned from the world cup.

or if robbie controls the ball with his hand in the box, and for some reason a second later the ref gives a peno to ireland for absolutely no reason.......oh hold on......

MOH

Johnny Utah wrote: »

What about Eduardo?

He was given a 2 match ban for diving in a meaningless Champions League qualifier with Celtic. Henry's handball was more blatant in terms of cheating and it happened in a much bigger, more important game. Fifa can't turn a blind eye to this.

Johnny Utah wrote: »

Please don't call my thread 'idiotic'. And how can you possibly absolve Henry from any guilt. "This isn't Henry's fault"....... yeah right, someone made him do it- lol. He's nothing more than a cheat.

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Henry gets blamed because he DELIBERATELY CHEATED.

He wasn't just offside, the ball didn't accidently hit his hand, he didn't have a shot bounce not quite over the line that was given as a goal - those issues are part of the game, they happen and are not malicious. Henry DELIBERATELY used his hands, twice, to control the ball and gain an advantage. he did it deliberately. that is not the refs fault, that is not FIFA's fault. Henry deliberately cheated cause he knew he could get away with it. the is his attitude, that is his decision, that is HIS FAULT.

Look at Robbie Keane in the first second of that clip leading up to the Georgia penalty. Look at him 3 or 4 times on Wednesday night deliberately trrying to get away with controlling the ball on his arm. Looking at him regularly throwing himself on his arse trying to win frees. The fact that he's crap at it and gets caught more often than not doesn't make him any less of a "cheat" than Henry.

L'prof

Mitch Connor wrote: »

What are you on about - there is no cheating from Beckham in that vid.... there is a foul followed by stupid retaliation. no cheating though. Simulation from Simone, but i don't see Beckham condoning that.

Difference of opinion so, Beckham trying to get away with a sly kick is cheating to me...on a different level but, still cheating.

UnitedIrishman

Johnny Utah wrote: »

I think FIFA have to take action against Thierry Henry for what he did last night. He controlled the ball with two movements of the hand, so there is no way he can claim that it was an unconscious act. He knew exactly what he was doing and he even had the audacity to celebrate the goal. If he had any backbone, he would have informed the referee that he used his hand. He blatantly cheated and he should be ashamed of himself.

Next summer at the World Cup, all the teams will be wearing a 'fair play' badge on their sleeve. Now, if Fifa are serious about the 'fair play' aspect of the game, then I think it's only fair and reasonable that an appropriate ban is handed out to Henry. Imo, he deserves to be banned for the entire World Cup for his reprehensible actions last night.

Anyone agree?

Maybe we could petition FIFA calling to ban Henry.

Facepalm this whole thread.

I wonder was there as much outcry over here when Maradona did the same against England? Not likely. If Robbie Keane did the same to France we'd be saying "ah Robbie ya devil", before celebrating the fact we've gone to the WC.

Sh*t happens.

Mitch Connor

MOH wrote: »

Look at Robbie Keane in the first second of that clip leading up to the Georgia penalty. Look at him 3 or 4 times on Wednesday night deliberately trrying to get away with controlling the ball on his arm. Looking at him regularly throwing himself on his arse trying to win frees. The fact that he's crap at it and gets caught more often than not doesn't make him any less of a "cheat" than Henry.

But you obviously don't blame Robbie for those incidents. It is other footballers encouraging him and the ref that is to blame, surely?

Otherwise this is pointless.

I've not said Henry is the only player to cheat but he DOES deserve to blamed for what he deliberately did.

Mitch Connor

jasonorr wrote: »

Difference of opinion so, Beckham trying to get away with a sly kick is cheating to me...on a different level but, still cheating.

no - it clearly isn't cheating. Cheating is to gain an advantage. Beckham gained no advantage and tried to gain no advantage. Unbelievable.

DBraithwaite

Everyone we all need to take a leaf out of the Keano book. France are going to the world cup , we are not. Get used to it, get over it. And banning Henry from the WC is the most outragiously exagerated thing i have heard.



End of story

bigstar

DBraithwaite wrote: »

Everyone we all need to take a leaf out of the Keano book. France are going to the world cup , we are not. Get used to it, get over it. And banning Henry from the WC is the most outragiously exagerated thing i have heard.



End of story

more outrageous than a replay for a bad hand ball decision. hmmm less, more.

yeah your right. just.

DB10

Banning players for handball now are we?:D

Keane should be banned for 12 games then because he handled 4 times in the match. Or are some people making one rule for one player and not applying it to our own.

The match officials should be suspended.

DBraithwaite

bigstar wrote: »

more outrageous than a replay for a bad hand ball decision. hmmm less, more.

yeah your right. just.

Its dominating the papers and news. Its getting kind of silly. If that was Robbie Keane we would be celebrating. We are not getting a replay Keano's right , time to move on.

KELTICKNIGHTT

if you asked me on night i would say yes but after few days ,now i would say no too banning him,as fifa will not in near future so maybe more refs near goal area would help as being tested

SlickRic

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

if you asked me on night i would say yes but after few days ,now i would say no too banning him,as fifa will not in near future so maybe more refs near goal area would help as being tested

anglaise...s'il vous plait....

DBraithwaite

Does anyone else think banning Henry from the world cup is ridiculous??

A bit of support here!!

KELTICKNIGHTT

DBraithwaite wrote: »

Does anyone else think banning Henry from the world cup is ridiculous??

A bit of support here!!

would be up too fifa

SlickRic

DBraithwaite wrote: »

Does anyone else think banning Henry from the world cup is ridiculous??

A bit of support here!!

of course it would be.

DBraithwaite

You can sign all the petition you want. All the complaining wont work.

Johnny Utah

DBraithwaite wrote: »

Everyone we all need to take a leaf out of the Keano book. France are going to the world cup , we are not. Get used to it, get over it. And banning Henry from the WC is the most outragiously exagerated thing i have heard.



End of story

DB10 wrote: »

Banning players for handball now are we?:D

Keane should be banned for 12 games then because he handled 4 times in the match. Or are some people making one rule for one player and not applying it to our own.

The match officials should be suspended.

RasTa wrote: »

Some of the people on this thread need to listen to Keano.

gosplan wrote: »

Sorry, but it is idiotic.

Nearly everyone tries to break the rules in football including most of the Irish players. I carefully phrased my initial post to try and point out that if you think Henry should be singled out as a cheat among the massive amounts of footballers that try to break the rules you either

A - know nothing about football
B - aren't thinking rationally

Mr Alan wrote: »

or if robbie controls the ball with his hand in the box, and for some reason a second later the ref gives a peno to ireland for absolutely no reason.......oh hold on......

MOH wrote: »

Look at Robbie Keane in the first second of that clip leading up to the Georgia penalty. Look at him 3 or 4 times on Wednesday night deliberately trrying to get away with controlling the ball on his arm. Looking at him regularly throwing himself on his arse trying to win frees. The fact that he's crap at it and gets caught more often than not doesn't make him any less of a "cheat" than Henry.

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

Facepalm this whole thread.

I wonder was there as much outcry over here when Maradona did the same against England? Not likely. If Robbie Keane did the same to France we'd be saying "ah Robbie ya devil", before celebrating the fact we've gone to the WC.

Sh*t happens.

So, you all condone cheating..... interesting!