My outrage at some members of the Private Sector..

diverdriver

Don't be too angry at me Liam and others. I'm private sector and self employed and I earn less than the lowest paid PS employee. But I still pay tax to keep you in bread and water. I get no pension, leave entitlement, no bonuses, work weekends without overtime, have no job security, often no regular income, no health insurance, nothing. If I go on strike, I don't get paid and probably be replaced the following day. But I'm lucky because I'm not unemployed.

But you and people like you expect me and others like me to somehow sympathise with your plight?

GROW UP THE LOT OF YOU!:mad:

Rantan

diverdriver wrote: »

Don't be too angry at me Liam and others. I'm private sector and self employed and I earn less than the lowest paid PS employee. But I still pay tax to keep you in bread and water. I get no pension, leave entitlement, no bonuses, work weekends without overtime, have no job security, often no regular income, no health insurance, nothing. If I go on strike, I don't get paid and probably be replaced the following day. But I'm lucky because I'm not unemployed.

But you and people like you expect me and others like me to somehow sympathise with your plight?

GROW UP THE LOT OF YOU!:mad:

While I have sympathy with some lower paid sectors of the PS, I think this post sums up the reality that I think is lost on the majority.

S.L.F

ronbyrne2005 wrote: »

The Royal Irish Academy is basically a public body.

The wiki link is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Irish_Academy doesn't say anything about being funded by the govt in other words I believe it is a private organisation.

pyramuid man

jimmmy wrote: »

Do you think people of her age, qualifications and experience in the private sector, or her age, qualifications and experience in the public sector in other countries, earn more ?

Do we live in another country? While other countries public service may be payed less, the cost of living is alot less in most other countries.

Take the uk.
There is a difference in wages between Ireland and the uk.
If someone has to go to a doctor here we pay approx €60
in the uk, if someone has to go to a doctor it is free.
This is just one example

Stark

Doctors come under public service in the UK. They get better value for money from their public services.

In Ireland, consumer prices are decreasing across the board with the notable exception of fees for public services, which are increasing.

Rantan wrote: »

While I have sympathy with some lower paid sectors of the PS, I think this post sums up the reality that I think is lost on the majority.

The "low paid" public servants can be the most overpaid of all as it turns out. An SO can earn €45k despite not even having a Leaving Cert education. Considering the number of highly skilled university educated people who earn less than that, it's considerably overpaid.

To be north wrote:

ok i guess i typed my question out badly, what i meant was that imo it doesn't sound like what she's getting paid is really the kind of wage we should we worried about in the public service. maybe i'm alone in that though. personally i'm more concerned about things like the fact that brian cowen gets paid more than obama.

It depends how many of her there are. While Cowen may be grossly overpaid, there's only one of him. So even if he works for free, we haven't achieved much in the way of savings. I'm not saying he doesn't need to take a cut of course. But he needs to do so purely for reasons of solidarity, the real cuts need to come from where we've hundreds of public servants earning higher salaries than they should be.

boodlesdoodles

Stark wrote: »

The "low paid" public servants can be the most overpaid of all as it turns out. An SO can earn €45k despite not even having a Leaving Cert education. Considering the number of highly skilled university educated people who earn less than that, it's considerably overpaid.

You can't get into the civil service without your Leaving cert.

Johnboymac

OMD wrote: »

You are using your example to say civil service is underpaid. It is overpaid. That does not mean every single person is but certainly the average is. I asked a question before that no one answered. Perhaps you can. Median salary in Ireland is about €35000. How many jobs in civil service attract a salary of less than the median wage? In other words if someone enters civil service and never get promoted what will their pay average out at? My feeling is that the vast majority of people who enter civil service can expect to earn above median wage even if they are never promoted.

a clerical officer would start out on just over 23kpa. if that person never gets promotedthey would be on a salary c.43kpa just before retirement.
based on this it would avg @ 33kpa wich is slightly less than the median salary you mentioned!
I can only speak for myself and the grade i am...but I am not overpaid, (i made a comparison on another thread, but i would be financially better off on the dole!) yet I along with all the other c/s workers are being tarred with the same brush and have to listen to the same mantra every day...


YAWN!!!!!

Johnboymac

boodlesdoodles wrote: »

You can't get into the civil service without your Leaving cert.

You are very much mistaken there.....
I should know, i have no leaving cert and only barely scraped passed the inter as it was back then!!!

I undertook whatever training was relevant to me at the time to further my career

Rob67

CathleenN wrote: »

I'm hearing so much about this precious job security, yet not everyone in the public sector has it. There are also people with fixed-time contracts, yet when it comes to the pay cuts they are treated just the same as permanent contract holders.

S.L.F wrote: »

Plus of course the fact that they also pay the pension levy even though they won't get a PS pension.

I have tried to point that out but unfortunately no-one really pays any heed to it usually gets in the way of a god rant!) I've said it before; the Pension Levy is a tax on people who work in the Public Service, by definition a levy is an imposition of a tax. The pension levy goes to central funds, does not go to the pension fund and does not increase the value of the pension on retirement. People who are on fixed term contracts will never see this money in any shape or form after their contract period has expired.

It would have been simpler and more efficient to impose a pay cut... and more honest.

milkerman

Hey, why didn't I stay in the PS? I didn't realise it was such a f****ing gravy train! At the time though I was able to earn much more in the private sector - I had to - BECAUSE AT THE TIME WORKING FOR A LOCAL AUTHORITY PAID A PITTANCE when compared to even the most menial labouring job on a building site.
I have seen both sides in this argument - the Public Service is a good job in bad times and a lousy job in good times.
Those who put forward the "I pay your wages..." type argument should really wait for their balls to drop before speaking and let the adults sort this one out.
I am in the private sector and yes I have taken a pay cut of about 15% - but that was a risk I knew about & accepted when I took the job. I equally know that I will earn it back if things eventually turn around. Crucifying a Civil Servant on Stephen's Green will not put one extra cent in my pocket - it will probably do the reverse because they will spend less.
Civil Servants signed BINDING CONTRACTS when they joined up - our government are renaging on these contracts now. Do you think that the Banks will allow me renage on my mortgage contract? or yours?
In point of fact, the multi-national companies are relocating to the far East and Eastern European states because .....- YES! Private Sector wages here are too high. Live with it, it's a fact.
Our Civil Service does need to be cropped in numbers - and the place to start is at the top and at Ministerial level. If Clerical Officers spend too long on tea breaks it is because their managers let them!

whatnext

S.L.F wrote: »

The wiki link is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Irish_Academy doesn't say anything about being funded by the govt in other words I believe it is a private organisation.

http://www.ria.ie/about/pdfs/report2008.pdf

Page 60

irish_bob

milkerman wrote: »

Hey, why didn't I stay in the PS? I didn't realise it was such a f****ing gravy train! At the time though I was able to earn much more in the private sector - I had to - BECAUSE AT THE TIME WORKING FOR A LOCAL AUTHORITY PAID A PITTANCE when compared to even the most menial labouring job on a building site.
I have seen both sides in this argument - the Public Service is a good job in bad times and a lousy job in good times.
Those who put forward the "I pay your wages..." type argument should really wait for their balls to drop before speaking and let the adults sort this one out.
I am in the private sector and yes I have taken a pay cut of about 15% - but that was a risk I knew about & accepted when I took the job. I equally know that I will earn it back if things eventually turn around. Crucifying a Civil Servant on Stephen's Green will not put one extra cent in my pocket - it will probably do the reverse because they will spend less.
Civil Servants signed BINDING CONTRACTS when they joined up - our government are renaging on these contracts now. Do you think that the Banks will allow me renage on my mortgage contract? or yours?
In point of fact, the multi-national companies are relocating to the far East and Eastern European states because .....- YES! Private Sector wages here are too high. Live with it, it's a fact.
Our Civil Service does need to be cropped in numbers - and the place to start is at the top and at Ministerial level. If Clerical Officers spend too long on tea breaks it is because their managers let them!

public sector wages rose faster during the boom than in the private sector

Head The Wall

Johnboymac wrote: »

a clerical officer would start out on just over 23kpa. if that person never gets promotedthey would be on a salary c.43kpa just before retirement.
based on this it would avg @ 33kpa wich is slightly less than the median salary you mentioned!
I can only speak for myself and the grade i am...but I am not overpaid, (i made a comparison on another thread, but i would be financially better off on the dole!) yet I along with all the other c/s workers are being tarred with the same brush and have to listen to the same mantra every day...


YAWN!!!!!

Anyone either private or public on that wage is also in that situation

milkerman wrote: »

If Clerical Officers spend too long on tea breaks it is because their managers let them!

Priests were let abuse kids because their bishops let them! If you spent a lot of your time taking tea breaks would you not get sacked? In the public sector you don't

whatnext

milkerman wrote: »

Hey, why didn't I stay in the PS? I didn't realise it was such a f****ing gravy train! At the time though I was able to earn much more in the private sector - I had to - BECAUSE AT THE TIME WORKING FOR A LOCAL AUTHORITY PAID A PITTANCE when compared to even the most menial labouring job on a building site.
I have seen both sides in this argument - the Public Service is a good job in bad times and a lousy job in good times.
Those who put forward the "I pay your wages..." type argument should really wait for their balls to drop before speaking and let the adults sort this one out.
I am in the private sector and yes I have taken a pay cut of about 15% - but that was a risk I knew about & accepted when I took the job. I equally know that I will earn it back if things eventually turn around. Crucifying a Civil Servant on Stephen's Green will not put one extra cent in my pocket - it will probably do the reverse because they will spend less.
Civil Servants signed BINDING CONTRACTS when they joined up - our government are renaging on these contracts now. Do you think that the Banks will allow me renage on my mortgage contract? or yours?In point of fact, the multi-national companies are relocating to the far East and Eastern European states because .....- YES! Private Sector wages here are too high. Live with it, it's a fact.
Our Civil Service does need to be cropped in numbers - and the place to start is at the top and at Ministerial level. If Clerical Officers spend too long on tea breaks it is because their managers let them!

So by your logic they wen't entitled to pay increases either. Think for 1 second at least before posting

P. Breathnach

irish_bob wrote: »

public sector wages rose faster during the boom than in the private sector

Evidence, please.

Head The Wall

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Evidence, please.

http://www.ronanlyons.com/2009/02/04/public-sector-pay-in-ireland-the-e50000-question-its-not-that-difficult/

BOHSBOHS

so public sector pay rose ~66% from 1998 -2008
while private sector pay rose ~71% in the same period...
not sure how that backs up your argument

Son Of A Vidic

I was in the HSE for a number of years and I'm now in the private sector. The first thing I noticed was the €11,000 pay cut I took entering the private sector. It was worth it though because I don't have to deal with or listen to MANAGERIAL INCOMPETENCE, WASTED FUNDS, STAFF NOT PULLING THEIR WEIGHT AND UNION BULL****.

milkerman

whatnext wrote: »

So by your logic they wen't entitled to pay increases either. Think for 1 second at least before posting

Pay increases were given after negotiations and agreement on both sides and so contract conditions were altered by mutual agreement - standard business practice. Or did you not think of that?
The pension levy was not agreed nor are the proposed pay cuts by both sides.
One other thing, if Public Service pay and conditions were so bloody marvellous why didn't ye all become Civil Servants? Or did ye not meet the entry requirements?
I would advise any Public Servant to cancel membership with the bigger unions like IMPACT though - Your senior union officials sold their souls to Bertie & the Biffo a long time ago. THe performance of senior union officials in this debate has been very poor.
Why did Dell move to Poland? Was it the weather, scenery, the food? Go on - you know the answer.

milkerman

Head The Wall wrote: »

Anyone either private or public on that wage is also in that situation



Priests were let abuse kids because their bishops let them! If you spent a lot of your time taking tea breaks would you not get sacked? In the public sector you don't

So the same thing should happen to Bishops & Management in the public service - well not quite. The kiddy fiddlers and their cover up men should be jailed and bad managers should be made perform or face the sack.
Incidentally, it never fails to amaze me how many people in my business can spend so much time on the golf course - they call it networking though. So I suppose it's alright.

murphaph

BOHSBOHS wrote: »

so public sector pay rose ~66% from 1998 -2008
while private sector pay rose ~71% in the same period...
not sure how that backs up your argument

I hope you made that mistake honestly!

Your figures show a higher %age increase for the private sector purely because the private sector started out with a much lower wage in 1998!

To interpret this graph and determine whether or not public sector pay rose faster than private sector pay, it's as simple as looking at the two lines' divergence!

If the lines were parallel then growth would have been at the same rate.

whatnext

milkerman wrote: »

Pay increases were given after negotiations and agreement on both sides and so contract conditions were altered by mutual agreement - standard business practice. Or did you not think of that?
The pension levy was not agreed nor are the proposed pay cuts by both sides.
One other thing, if Public Service pay and conditions were so bloody marvellous why didn't ye all become Civil Servants? Or did ye not meet the entry requirements?
I would advise any Public Servant to cancel membership with the bigger unions like IMPACT though - Your senior union officials sold their souls to Bertie & the Biffo a long time ago. THe performance of senior union officials in this debate has been very poor.
Why did Dell move to Poland? Was it the weather, scenery, the food? Go on - you know the answer.

When I graduated I joined a County Council. I wont get int which section. I resigned after 6 weeks, but ended up staying for a total of 3 months because my manager broke down in tears worring about how she would look if I left after 6 weeks and begged me to stay and give it more time. Some examples of things that I encountered:
meetings: being told to put in mileage for meetings even though I didn't have a car(didn't do this), got a lift with a colleague. was told to get insured on my parents car and the mileage would be a nice side earner.
Attitude: this was pre computers, if a member of the public or an other dept phoned about a file that was being processed, but had not yet been done the file was put to the bottom of the pile in a "relegation ceremony"
Pure bone Idleness, the first half of monday up till and including lunch was spent discussing the weekend, and all day friday was spent discussing the next. One of my colleagues an older guy who I thought was about 70 then, probably was only in his 40's of 50's had the same catch phrase which still grates on me, He said it after completing every task, so about twice a day. "My next job now boy, is to do as little as possible for as long as possible without getting caught, will you help me boyo?" (say it in a Cork accent).
Sick days, these were generally coordinated amongst the team Monday after a Gaa match was in big demand.
I could go on and on and on but I have to go, net result was, after both my parents encouraging me to get a good job in the council since I was in school, both said I had to get out of there, and that I did and want off to England.....

rossithelegend

milkerman wrote: »

Hey, why didn't I stay in the PS? I didn't realise it was such a f****ing gravy train! At the time though I was able to earn much more in the private sector - I had to - BECAUSE AT THE TIME WORKING FOR A LOCAL AUTHORITY PAID A PITTANCE when compared to even the most menial labouring job on a building site.
I have seen both sides in this argument - the Public Service is a good job in bad times and a lousy job in good times.
Those who put forward the "I pay your wages..." type argument should really wait for their balls to drop before speaking and let the adults sort this one out.
I am in the private sector and yes I have taken a pay cut of about 15% - but that was a risk I knew about & accepted when I took the job. I equally know that I will earn it back if things eventually turn around. Crucifying a Civil Servant on Stephen's Green will not put one extra cent in my pocket - it will probably do the reverse because they will spend less.
Civil Servants signed BINDING CONTRACTS when they joined up - our government are renaging on these contracts now. Do you think that the Banks will allow me renage on my mortgage contract? or yours?
In point of fact, the multi-national companies are relocating to the far East and Eastern European states because .....- YES! Private Sector wages here are too high. Live with it, it's a fact.
Our Civil Service does need to be cropped in numbers - and the place to start is at the top and at Ministerial level. If Clerical Officers spend too long on tea breaks it is because their managers let them!

You can't say it much better than the above, well put!

LittleLebowski

Have to agree with the above comment. Spot on. Nice to see someone in the private secter who sees things from an unbias point of view.
Cant believe people are still getting misled with the gov/media propaganda. For god sake were playing right into their hands. Lets all stand up together and sort out the real issues. A poor at best Government who dont care about anything past their next term and a media making a fortune on badmouthing public sector workers so they will buy more papers and go onto their website. Wake up!

old boy

i was in the company of a ps for a while in my local last night, the best laugh i had in a while, which i needed badly by the way.
op
i am entitled to extra because i have to get up in the dark at 7 each morning and go to work in the dark, while the people on the dole are nice and warm in bed,
me
there are quite a lot of people on the dole who would give their right testicle to be in your position,
op
no 90% of people on the dole want to be on it,
me
yeah ted.
op
i support financially all them people on the dole who do not want to work,
the dole should be cut in half,
me
has not the vast majority of people on the dole paid tax and prsi up until recently,
op there is plenty of work out there,
me
yeah ted,
me
what about the person you are in a relationship with, (on the dole and working)
op
silence, then moves away and leaves me in stitches spluttering drink all over the counter,

Liam79

old boy wrote: »

i was in the company of a ps for a while in my local last night, the best laugh i had in a while, which i needed badly by the way.
op
i am entitled to extra because i have to get up in the dark at 7 each morning and go to work in the dark, while the people on the dole are nice and warm in bed,
me
there are quite a lot of people on the dole who would give their right testicle to be in your position,
op
no 90% of people on the dole want to be on it,
me
yeah ted.
op
i support financially all them people on the dole who do not want to work,
the dole should be cut in half,
me
has not the vast majority of people on the dole paid tax and prsi up until recently,
op there is plenty of work out there,
me
yeah ted,
me
what about the person you are in a relationship with, (on the dole and working)
op
silence, then moves away and leaves me in stitches spluttering drink all over the counter,

Are you suggesting you met ME out over the weekend? And that I said those things?
If so your a damn straight liar, and if not, then go away and find out what OP means on here:rolleyes:

97i9y3941

private sector-might demand wage increases,might get them or might get them cut to save the company,or the company closes up and moves away,any f#ck ups and people are fired or disciplined

public sector-black hole,keep adding more staff,or pour money down the drain for useless contracts that seem to go on for years,goverment spending is like a gold credit card,not much accountabilty for f#ck ups,get the taxpayer increases in tax to make up for wages

Stark

Liam79 wrote: »

Are you suggesting you met ME out over the weekend? And that I said those things?
If so your a damn straight liar, and if not, then go away and find out what OP means on here:rolleyes:

OP = "Other Person". Hooray for making everything about you though.

Liam79

OP on here means Original Poster and well you know it mate:rolleyes:

Stark

If he meant you, he would have said "I was in the company of the OP last night". As the post stands, you would have to be pretty damn paranoid to think that any and every appearance of the letters "op" refer to you. Unless there's something else in the post to make you think it was you he was referring to. I also won't mention what I think people are saying when they use the "rolleyes" symbol, as I'd probably get banned for that.