Should the Ireland France game be replayed?

OPENROAD

Paleface wrote: »

Your post related to the recession yes or no? If it did why are you bringing it up on this matter?

Because I said it was mad that our Taoiseach (and other TD'S) was getting himself concerned with this when he has more important things to worry about and someone actually wrote that the match was more important than our economic crisis.

Paleface

bUILDERtHEbOB wrote: »

It shouldn't imo, yes the assistant ref made a massive mistake, but that's life, **** happens, we just have to pick ourselves up again and make sure we don't put ourselves in the same position in the future and actually finish off the job.

There was no replay after the hand of god, no replay when N'Gog dived the last day, no replay when Pedro Munitis scored from the half way line against Roy Carroll, there shouldn't be any special treatment given to us, we as a nation just need to get over it tbh.

But your missing the point of progress. Why should these things just continue to happen? Why should cheating be ignored?

clap-for-trap

follow this link and sign the petition to get a replay plzzzzzz http://www.fiannafail.ie/fairplay
please please sign it

mrgaa1

Last night I only saw the ninety minutes as I had other things to do and I've just seen the goal on youtube. There are a couple of issues that I have:

• why didn't Paul McShane clear the ball instead of looking at it
• why didn't the linesman flag offside
• Why can't we have forwards who can score - we missed three goals from players who earn tens of thousands of pounds per week
• We missed two goals in the first leg

I was very impressed with Ireland last night - they were very focused and I thought Richard Dunne was magnificent. However we missed three goals and if we had scored one everything else after that wouldn't have mattered. France were very poor.
Funny the things you remember - when Paul McShane came on one guy near me said that mans a liability. I thought he defended very poorly for the Henry incident.
Also how many times did Keane handle last night - at least 5 times. The irony of it all smacks of "lets get France into the final". There won't be any replay otherwise every contentious moment in every match will mean replays all over the place.
Sepp Blatter refuses to have video evidence - its time he was ousted from his post and video evidence introduced. Referees do make mistakes although I thought the ref was excellent last night. There is no shame in having help and its time it was done. Too much money involved now.

Racing Flat

IrishKev wrote: »

I just heard on the radio that Sarcosy won't be helping Ireland in their quest to replaying the game.

"I am very sorry for the Irish Republic, but please leave me out of it" was what I picked up....

Best thing he could have said.

Paleface

OPENROAD wrote: »

Because I said it was mad that our Taoiseach (and other TD'S) was getting himself concerned with this when he has more important things to worry about and someone actually wrote that the match was more important than our economic crisis.

You know well enough that no matter what Brian Cowen says it will have no impact on FIFA. There are strict lines between governments and sport for good reason.

Are you saying that the whole thing is a Fianna Fail ploy to take our minds off the recession?

bUILDERtHEbOB

Paleface wrote: »

But your missing the point of progress. Why should these things just continue to happen? Why should cheating be ignored?

Video technology.

Paleface

bUILDERtHEbOB wrote: »

Video technology.

Agreed. But we have to push it into force. They've been stalling on it long enough!

drkpower

JokerD wrote: »

If the French public agree, the FAI and the entire football nation also agree then how much uproar would it actually cause? apart from maybe the French dressing room. You could tell after the match that Henry felt guilt and I'm sure he would prefer to go to the World Cup on a better note.

Is there any suggestion that the French public want a replay?
Just because the Irish people are pissed off is no reason to change the rules of football to suit us.
We were rightly annoyed when FIFA did that re: seedings. We shouldnt be calling for another mid-qualifying rule change

OPENROAD

Paleface wrote: »

You know well enough that no matter what Brian Cowen says it will have no impact on FIFA. There are strict lines between governments and sport for good reason.

Are you saying that the whole thing is a Fianna Fail ploy to take our minds off the recession?

No of course not I bet they wish they had the budget today though

Eire-Dearg

Worth a try, at least.

Back in 2006, FIFA confirmed that the result of the 2006 FIFA World Cup Germany qualifying match between Uzbekistan and Bahrain on 3 September 2005 had been declared invalid and ordered a replay.

The decision was taken by the Bureau of the 2006 FIFA World Cup Germany Organising Committee following a formal protest from the Uzbekistan Football Federation concerning a technical error by the referee of the match.

According to Art. 12.4 (b) and 14.1 of the Regulations for the 2006 FIFA World Cup, all protests, including those against technical errors committed by referees, are to be decided by the Organising Committee for the 2006 FIFA World Cup Germany. A bureau of the Organising Committee may pass a decision in lieu of the plenary committee in urgent matters.

The Bureau, composed of Chairman Lennart Johansson, Deputy Chairman Julio Grondona, Dr Chung Mong Joon and FIFA General Secretary Urs Linsi, took the decision based on the following facts:

1) At the score of 1-0 in favour of Uzbekistan, in the 39th minute of the match, the referee decided to award a penalty kick to Uzbekistan;
2) The penalty kick was taken and led to goal in favour of Uzbekistan;
3) Before the penalty kick was carried out, an Uzbek player entered the penalty area;
4) Consequently, the referee awarded an indirect free kick to the Bahrain team;
5) However, in such a situation, the Laws of the Game require the referee to order the penalty kick to be retaken;
6) The captain of Uzbekistan team protested to the referee immediately after the mistake had taken place and before the game had restarted. This protest was confirmed after the match;
7) This technical error was confirmed by the match commissioner and the referee inspector in their respective reports;
8) Uzbekistan protested the decision of the referee in a written request, asking for the match to be "cancelled" and be evaluated with a 3-0 forfeit result;

The bureau, taking into consideration that the referee in the match in question had indeed committed a technical error, established that, as a consequence, the match needed to be replayed.

In an Ideal world this would happen again, thats what should be done, but that was Uzbekistan vs Bahrain, niether side in the top 50 seeds and with no chance of making it to the World Cup. This is France in a World Cup Playoff. They have players like Henry, Anelka, Benzema, Ribery and Diarra, stars who will draw the crowds in RSA. It shouldn't be this way, but it's all about money to them.

SarahBM

it comes down to this people, if FIFA are serious about cleaning up the game, and having FAIR PLAY! then they have to get with the times, introduce the video replay at least, and listen to the fans, because with out us there is no FIFA.

I wish the polititians would stay out of it. we've seen what happens when politics and football get mixed up and I for one dont want to see that.

greendom

drkpower wrote: »

Is there any suggestion that the French public want a replay?
Just because the Irish people are pissed off is no reason to change the rules of football to suit us.
We were rightly annoyed when FIFA did that re: seedings. We shouldnt be calling for another mid-qualifying rule change

I really think the French public will turn against the national team - just like the West Germans did after the 82 WC Semi - it will probably last until June next year...

fkt

Of course not.

JokerD

drkpower wrote: »

Is there any suggestion that the French public want a replay?
Just because the Irish people are pissed off is no reason to change the rules of football to suit us.
We were rightly annoyed when FIFA did that re: seedings. We shouldnt be calling for another mid-qualifying rule change

Another member posted a poll currently ongoing on a French Website that has a 82% score for a reply so far. Of course if the entire crowd from last night was polled it could be a different result but I'm hearing a lot myself from the French that would suggest they wouldn't be against the idea. Guess we'll just wait and see

Helix

Eire-Dearg wrote: »

Worth a try, at least.

Back in 2006, FIFA confirmed that the result of the 2006 FIFA World Cup Germany qualifying match between Uzbekistan and Bahrain on 3 September 2005 had been declared invalid and ordered a replay.

The decision was taken by the Bureau of the 2006 FIFA World Cup Germany Organising Committee following a formal protest from the Uzbekistan Football Federation concerning a technical error by the referee of the match.

According to Art. 12.4 (b) and 14.1 of the Regulations for the 2006 FIFA World Cup, all protests, including those against technical errors committed by referees, are to be decided by the Organising Committee for the 2006 FIFA World Cup Germany. A bureau of the Organising Committee may pass a decision in lieu of the plenary committee in urgent matters.

The Bureau, composed of Chairman Lennart Johansson, Deputy Chairman Julio Grondona, Dr Chung Mong Joon and FIFA General Secretary Urs Linsi, took the decision based on the following facts:

1) At the score of 1-0 in favour of Uzbekistan, in the 39th minute of the match, the referee decided to award a penalty kick to Uzbekistan;
2) The penalty kick was taken and led to goal in favour of Uzbekistan;
3) Before the penalty kick was carried out, an Uzbek player entered the penalty area;
4) Consequently, the referee awarded an indirect free kick to the Bahrain team;
5) However, in such a situation, the Laws of the Game require the referee to order the penalty kick to be retaken;
6) The captain of Uzbekistan team protested to the referee immediately after the mistake had taken place and before the game had restarted. This protest was confirmed after the match;
7) This technical error was confirmed by the match commissioner and the referee inspector in their respective reports;
8) Uzbekistan protested the decision of the referee in a written request, asking for the match to be "cancelled" and be evaluated with a 3-0 forfeit result;

The bureau, taking into consideration that the referee in the match in question had indeed committed a technical error, established that, as a consequence, the match needed to be replayed.

In an Ideal world this would happen again, thats what should be done, but that was Uzbekistan vs Bahrain, niether side in the top 50 seeds and with no chance of making it to the World Cup. This is France in a World Cup Playoff. They have players like Henry, Anelka, Benzema, Ribery and Diarra, stars who will draw the crowds in RSA. It shouldn't be this way, but it's all about money to them.

about the 15th time its been posted and its STILL no more relevant to what actually happened in the irish game

drkpower

JokerD wrote: »

Another member posted a poll currently ongoing on a French Website that has a 82% score for a reply so far. Of course if the entire crowd from last night was polled it could be a different result but I'm hearing a lot myself from the French that would suggest they wouldn't be against the idea. Guess we'll just wait and see

I wouldnt take one online poll as evidence of the French nation's intentions.

If it was the other way around, do you think the Irish nation would support a replay? I certainly wouldnt.

The rules are the rules, as imperfect as they are, and we cant just change them mid-stream to suit ourselves.

Although I am interested in the Uzbeckistan precedent quoted above....

Helix

SarahBM wrote: »

Im sorry if Im picking you up wrong here but are you saying the only reason Ireland lost is because they didnt take their chances? and that the handball/ goal had nothing to do with it?

well, yeah

ireland had enough chances to score another in the 90 minutes. there wouldve been no extra time had they taken one of them

Helix

JokerD wrote: »

I think you need to look at the bigger picture, what does it take to enforce change? I believe FIFA have a perfect opportunity here. The whole football community seems to be uniting, including the French public themselves. FIFA could actually make a ground breaking decision and keep 99.9% of the football world happy and with optimism for the future.

im all for change

im NOT for a replay of games because of poor decisions under the current setup

Eire-Dearg

I assume "Art. 12.4 (b) and 14.1 of the Regulations for the 2006 FIFA World Cup" is still regarded this time around.

SarahBM

drkpower wrote: »

I wouldnt take one online poll as evidence of the French nation's intentions.

If it was the other way around, do you think the Irish nation would support a replay? I certainly wouldnt.

The rules are the rules, as imperfect as they are, and we cant just change them mid-stream to suit ourselves.

Although I am interested in the Uzbeckistan precedent quoted above....

I would if an Irish player had cheated and scored from an obvious handball to win the match and deny the better team their place in the world cup. but then again thats just me:D. I would like to think the FAI would be big enough to hold their hands up and say "yes it was an unfair result, we would prefer to wwin fairly. replay". A very unlikely senario i suppose. Im not saying that france should forfeit the result like! just a fair replay.

I guess we have to agree to disagree lads!

JokerD

Helix wrote: »

im all for change

im NOT for a replay of games because of poor decisions under the current setup

But do you agree that now is the perfect opportunity to change that set up?

Helix

Eire-Dearg wrote: »

I assume "Art. 12.4 (b) and 14.1 of the Regulations for the 2006 FIFA World Cup" is still regarded this time around.

it is

but it wasnt a technical error last night was it?

Helix

JokerD wrote: »

But do you agree that now is the perfect oppoprtunity to change that set up?

not if it results in ireland getting a replay and destroying the fabric of the game, no

if it influences the introduction of video referees, then yes

raven136

is it incorrect to say that it feels like non football fans are the ones who want a replay?Just seems that its the extra crowd that a national team get that a clamouring for a replay.
He cheated,he got away with it,they won,we missed two glorious chances.Happens in most modern games and sadly cheating is part of the modern game.
Thats my 2 cents anyhow.

Helix

SarahBM wrote: »

I would like to think the FAI would be big enough to hold their hands up and say "yes it was an unfair result, we would prefer to wwin fairly. replay".

the fai cant just decide to have a replay

nor fan the fai and the fff

fifa are the ONLY ONES who can do it and, thick and all as they are, theyre not that thick

OPENROAD

SarahBM wrote: »

I would if an Irish player had cheated and scored from an obvious handball to win the match and deny the better team their place in the world cup. but then again thats just me:D. I would like to think the FAI would be big enough to hold their hands up and say "yes it was an unfair result, we would prefer to wwin fairly. replay". A very unlikely senario i suppose. Im not saying that france should forfeit the result like! just a fair replay.

I guess we have to agree to disagree lads!

Fair play to you Sarah, but I really don't believe most would.

Eire-Dearg

Helix wrote: »

it is

but it wasnt a technical error last night was it?

No, but technical mistakes are included in the protests which can be put forward. Protests would include cases like this.

JokerD

drkpower wrote: »

I wouldnt take one online poll as evidence of the French nation's intentions.

If it was the other way around, do you think the Irish nation would support a replay? I certainly wouldnt.

The rules are the rules, as imperfect as they are, and we cant just change them mid-stream to suit ourselves.

Although I am interested in the Uzbeckistan precedent quoted above....

I might have stated in previous posts that the poll was for a replay but it asks do the French deserve a place over Ireland.

Over 104,000 votes, 87% in favour for Ireland. Still though if the people agree, MAYBE they would support a replay if they stand by their vote

Helix

Eire-Dearg wrote: »

No, but technical mistakes are included in the protests which can be put forward. Protests would include cases like this.

again, that rule doesnt cover what happened last night, ergo no precedent has ever been set for a referee missing a handball

drkpower

SarahBM wrote: »

I would if an Irish player had cheated and scored from an obvious handball to win the match and deny the better team their place in the world cup.

Is it only that specific 'cheat' that you would have a problem with? Or would you want a reply in any game where an Irish player cheated? If so, we would have to replay every game we ever played.

SarahBM

raven136 wrote: »

is it incorrect to say that it feels like non football fans are the ones who want a replay?Just seems that its the extra crowd that a national team get that a clamouring for a replay.
He cheated,he got away with it,they won,we missed two glorious chances.Happens in most modern games and sadly cheating is part of the modern game.
Thats my 2 cents anyhow.

I think the point is that cheating should not happen in the first place and we should not allow it to continue!

do you really think that we should let them all carry on scoring from handballs and diving etc??

I am a big football fan btw. and I want a replay!

Helix

SarahBM wrote: »

I am a big football fan btw. and I want a replay!

biggest contradiction ever posted on boards and it only took 12 words

JokerD

raven136 wrote: »

is it incorrect to say that it feels like non football fans are the ones who want a replay?Just seems that its the extra crowd that a national team get that a clamouring for a replay.
He cheated,he got away with it,they won,we missed two glorious chances.Happens in most modern games and sadly cheating is part of the modern game.
Thats my 2 cents anyhow.

Yes that is totally incorrect and a very naive opinion, I spent a fortune following Ireland in this World Cup Campaign and in other campaigns, also Friendlies and I'm pretty sure most of the other posters here have too.
I'm deeply deeply upset about the game last night and find it hard to watch the replays, so would you say I'm not a real fan?

Helix

JokerD wrote: »

Yes that is totally incorrect and a very naive opinion, I spent a fortune following Ireland in this World Cup Campaign and in other campaigns, also Friendlies and I'm pretty sure most of the other posters here have too.
I'm deeply deeply upset about the game last night and find it hard to watch the replays, so would you say I'm not a real fan?

you honestly support calls for a replay which would completely change the landscape of the game, and result in countless lawsuits, replays and legal wrangling over one game?

instead of, you know, wanting the whole thing addressed sensibly with the phased introduction of video refereeing over a reasonable amount of time like 3-5 years, AFTER it has been thought through properly and regulations made for its use?

SarahBM

drkpower wrote: »

Is it only that specific 'cheat' that you would have a problem with? Or would you want a reply in any game where an Irish player cheated? If so, we would have to replay every game we ever played.

Im saying that I would like to believe that our player are honest and decent enough to admit when they are wrong.

are you saying that Ireland have won every match they ever played by cheating? I think thats insulting to all the footballers who have played for Ireland. do you really believe that we have cheated in every game we ever played? Im not having a go, I just want you to clarify please.

Helix

SarahBM wrote: »

Im saying that I would like to believe that our player are honest and decent enough to admit when they are wrong.

are you saying that Ireland have won every match they ever played by cheating? I think thats insulting to all the footballers who have played for Ireland. do you really believe that we have cheated in every game we ever played? Im not having a go, I just want you to clarify please.

any player who has ever fallen over a little too easy has cheated

find me a match where a player hasnt fallen over a little too easily

JokerD

Helix wrote: »

biggest contradiction ever posted on boards and it only took 12 words

Thats only a contradiction in your opinion, how exactly is it a contradiction? Is it Gospel that if you're a real football fan then you don't want a replay, or just your opinion?

OPENROAD

SarahBM wrote: »

Im saying that I would like to believe that our player are honest and decent enough to admit when they are wrong.

are you saying that Ireland have won every match they ever played by cheating? I think thats insulting to all the footballers who have played for Ireland. do you really believe that we have cheated in every game we ever played? Im not having a go, I just want you to clarify please.

wheen Ireland won that penalty against Georgia why didn't any of the players say it was not a penalty

JokerD

Helix wrote: »

you honestly support calls for a replay which would completely change the landscape of the game, and result in countless lawsuits, replays and legal wrangling over one game?

instead of, you know, wanting the whole thing addressed sensibly with the phased introduction of video refereeing over a reasonable amount of time like 3-5 years, AFTER it has been thought through properly and regulations made for its use?

Incase you haven't noticed it needs changing, and whats a little lawsuit when people's careers are suffering?

This isn't about law, its about doing the right thing and then dealing with the concenquences

Helix

JokerD wrote: »

Thats only a contradiction in your opinion, how exactly is it a contradiction? Is it Gospel that if you're a real football fan then you don't want a replay, or just your opinion?

if you have even the most basic understanding of the game, youd know that a replay in this match would absolutely destroy the entire thing within a matter of months

ive no problem with people wanting to draw a line under it and ensure it never happens again by demanding changes, but to want a replay because a ref missed something is beyond ridiculous. the current premier league season in england would last to about 2015 if the irish match is replayed

the game will collapse under the threat of legal action left right and center based on this one precedent

Helix

JokerD wrote: »

Incase you haven't noticed it needs changing

yes, but it needs changing the right way, as i said in the very next sentence

drkpower

SarahBM wrote: »

Im saying that I would like to believe that our player are honest and decent enough to admit when they are wrong.

are you saying that Ireland have won every match they ever played by cheating? I think thats insulting to all the footballers who have played for Ireland. do you really believe that we have cheated in every game we ever played? Im not having a go, I just want you to clarify please.

Tugging on a shirt.
Deliberate foul.
Deliberate body check.
Claiming throw in/free kick when you know it wasnt.
Diving.
Handball.

They are alll cheating. They may not all directly lead to a goal/win/result but they contribute to one. And Im sure an Irish (or any other game) has not gone by where we havent committed one or more of the above.

We need to root out many of these things, but picking this game, because we were on the receiving end, as the moment to fix cheating is not the way to go about it.

JokerD

Helix wrote: »

if you have even the most basic understanding of the game, youd know that a replay in this match would absolutely destroy the entire thing within a matter of months

ive no problem with people wanting to draw a line under it and ensure it never happens again by demanding changes, but to want a replay because a ref missed something is beyond ridiculous. the current premier league season in england would last to about 2015 if the irish match is replayed

the game will collapse under the threat of legal action left right and center based on this one precedent

Yes but if they allow a replay and introduce video technology gradually over the next few months then the Premier League could also benefit and wouldn't last till 2015. I bet if you had a vote now with Prem managers, they would vote for video replays.

I'm just saying it has to be introduced at some stage and now I believe is a chance.

I totally get your point but I'll guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. No hard feelings

Racing Flat

The England 1986 World Cup squad have come out of retirement and gone into training just in case there's a replay.

SarahBM

Helix wrote: »

biggest contradiction ever posted on boards and it only took 12 words

How is it a contradiction
[/quote]
Originally Posted by raven136
is it incorrect to say that it feels like non football fans are the ones who want a replay?Just seems that its the extra crowd that a national team get that a clamouring for a replay.
He cheated,he got away with it,they won,we missed two glorious chances.Happens in most modern games and sadly cheating is part of the modern game.
Thats my 2 cents anyhow.[/quote]

you seem to imply that looking for a replay means your non football fan.
I want to see a replay and I am a big football fan. I really dont see how that is a contradiction. Im not someone just jumping on the bandwagon here.
and Helix I take your point that there are a lot of players who go down easy but come on! You cant tar every one with the same brush!!!

Helix

JokerD wrote: »

Yes but if they allow a replay and introduce video technology gradually over the next few months then the Premier League could also benefit and wouldn't last till 2015. I bet if you had a vote now with Prem managers, they would vote for video replays.

I'm just saying it has to be introduced at some stage and now I believe is a chance.

I totally get your point but I'll guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. No hard feelings

no

they simply CANNOT allow a replay

if they do every single match played in leagues all over the world will have their results contested over ridiculous things, every single week

video technology cant be introduced over a few months, it has to be trialled, rules about it have to be drafted, and everyone has to know exactly where they stand before its introduced for it to work

Helix

SarahBM wrote: »

and Helix I take your point that there are a lot of players who go down easy but come on!

there are a lot of players in the ireland side who go down too easy, therefore theyre cheats, therefore every game we've EVER won where someone fell down a little easy, by your logic, should be replayed

JokerD

Helix wrote: »

yes, but it needs changing the right way, as i said in the very next sentence

yes I addressed that sentence in another post:D

drkpower

Racing Flat wrote: »

The England 1986 World Cup squad have come out of retirement and gone into training just in case there's a replay.

And Maradona is banned for 2 months so this is a real chance for them.