Newry Shoppers

katnia

It's very laudable that people say to continue to shop here, but the reality is if prices here were even reasonable I would shop here but what galls me more than anything is the fact at every turn, no matter what you try & purchase, shops, especially independent stores are trying to rip people off still thinking they are operating in 'boom' times. I would shop here if I could but I feel that I am never getting any sort of value, if prices came down to a resonable level I would shop here but there are just so many shop owners still ripping people off.

Wake up, be sensible with your pricing & people will respond accordingly.

Millions of euro are being haemhorraged every day to the north & this is not going to improve until shop owners start living in the real world.

So before anyone further lectures me on this - you should be shopping here sh*t, ask the business owners to stop extracting the urine with their prices please.

hellboy99

All this talk about how us the bargain hunters to the people that are shopping up north to try and make ends meet are "destroying the Irish economy", you really need to shut up with such statements. Our government, bankers and greedy businesses have already destroyed our economy.

At the end of the day myself like many others will shop where we want and if there is a bargain to be got, be it here or up north we'll go to where it is and buy there, it's just a fact of life. If like me you can save near €300 on a TV for the sake of a 15 minute drive or an hours drive that would cost you €20 - €40, you would be an idoit not to or your very well off and wouldn't miss €300.

Stephentlig

The retailers are also coming under fire for the prices charged in RoI, much of which is out of the retailers hands.

How so? I go to one shop for a bag of sticks for my fire and its e3.50 and I go to another shop and its e2.50 for the same bag of sticks.

If it was out of the retailers hands then they'd all have to charge the same price, but with prices like these for the same product it sounds like it is completely in their hands and they are in control.

Stephentlig

All this talk about how us the bargain hunters to the people that are shopping up north to try and make ends meet are "destroying the Irish economy", you really need to shut up with such statements. Our government, bankers and greedy businesses have already destroyed our economy.

I dont think though that punishing them is gonna make us any better off, as I demonstrated in my earliar posts, by punishing them we are punishing ourselves in the long run.

they made a stupid mistake, but unless we work together to help make it better, our stubborn behaviour may cost us, however, I dont think that this thread or any talk show is gonna stop people from shopping up north, but our conversations are definitely food for thought.

we'll just have to wait for the sterling to shift again.

hellboy99

Stephentlig wrote: »

How so? I go to one shop for a bag of sticks for my fire and its e3.50 and I go to another shop and its e2.50 for the same bag of sticks.

If it was out of the retailers hands then they'd all have to charge the same price, but with prices like these for the same product it sounds like it is completely in their hands and they are in control.

Same can be said about petrol prices too, one side of town you have 1.18c/l, the other side of town and you have 1.23c/l.

hellboy99

Stephentlig wrote: »

I dont think though that punishing them is gonna make us any better off, as I demonstrated in my earliar posts, by punishing them we are punishing ourselves in the long run.

they made a stupid mistake, but unless we work together to help make it better, our stubborn behaviour may cost us

You can't really say that people are going up north to punish retailers and government here, that's just silly, people are going up north to save themselves money and the savings they make are helping them get by and pay bills I'd imagine. Government and retailers is the last thing on their minds.

Stephentlig wrote: »

we'll just have to wait for the sterling to shift again.

And when it does and petrol becomes more expensive up north do you think businesses here will complain then when they flock down from the north to fill up. Will you see and hear in media up north how they are being unpatriotic by coming down here, I don't think so :rolleyes:

The way I see it is, here in the south government to retailers still want it everyway.

borderlinemeath

And when it does and petrol becomes more expensive up north do you think businesses here will complain then when they flock down from the north to fill up. Will you see and hear in media up north how they are being unpatriotic by coming down here, I don't think so :rolleyes:

The way I see it is, here in the south government to retailers still want it everyway.[/quote]

In Dec09 a law was passed by the government, banning the inclusion of upward only rent increases in commercial leasing agreements. The law will come into effect in Feb10.
This is cold comfort to the businesses that have had to shut their doors due to sustained losses at the hands of cross border shopping.

There has always been cross border business in the border towns, but the constant stream of Dublin cars and even day trippers to Newry and Belfast from as far south as Cork are what has the retail economy on its knees.

It is very difficult for the smaller convenience stores to price match the likes of Dunnes/Tesco/Lidl, the big multiples source their own goods whereas Spars/Centras/ local 24hr service stations are tied to middlemen wholesalers who will not allow underselling of their produce.

Cicero

1. in 2004, my local supervalu didn't pack my bags, didn't say hello to me etc etc-
2. In 2005, the building of an Aldi store commenced in my town- my super-valu started to greet me, pack my bags and introduced a weekly flyer in my door advising of price discounts
3. In Dec 2008, my super valu had high priced sweets, washing powder, etc etc compared to NI supermarkets - in Dec 2009, the prices were a lot more reasonable for these items- so much so, I decided not to head North until after Christmas...

Competition works......if STG wasn't so weak against euro, we would never have had these price discounts in 2009....saying that, I think people close to the border are in a slightly different situation--- I can't afford a 3 hour drive every weekend to NI- for yourselves, it's 10-30 minutes so it's easier to make that decision.....businesses have always folded on both sides of the border when rates swung heavily on one or another currency for a significant time period

I would prefer to see emphasis in 2010 on holidaying in Ireland- much more money could be saved this way than asking people not to purchase from NI- besides, I would recokon there is significant income spent on Internet shopping from sites based abroad....yet I do not see calls to stop this.

borderlinemeath

Competition works within the same economy, thats never been disputed.


Try comparing a spar in Dundalk with a spar in Newry.
Minimum wage staff in Dundalk €8.65
Minimum wage staff in Newry £5.80 (if over 22yrs of age, from £3.60 - £4.83 depending on age if younger)
Even using the highest minimum wage that is a huge cost differential for payroll.
Then take into account taxation difference, last year it was 6.5% between some items, at least this year it is reduced to 3.5%.
Transportation of goods, council rates, rents - all significantly higher in the South, yet people want prices on a par because the stg is weaker.

"Wants" not "needs" are what has the country screwed.
I wanted a house with 3 bathrooms, did I need them? Nah, I can only sit on one toilet at a time!

**Timbuk2**

If you want to only spend your money in the Republic, then by all means do it.

But for the rest of us, going to Newry is an extremely sensible option. The savings are huge, and even with the VAT rate increase there are still going to be large savings.

For me, it doesn't really matter which country my money is going to. All I'm concerned about is how much I save. I can be all 'high and mighty' and shop in the ROI thinking that I'm saving local businesses that charge too much anyway, but the money that I save by shopping in Newry can pay for bills, as well as pay for nights out etc.

Stephentlig

I think BorderlineMeaths posts are making a lot of sense, however I'm not totally convinced. Border line meath said:

It is very difficult for the smaller convenience stores to price match the likes of Dunnes/Tesco/Lidl, the big multiples source their own goods whereas Spars/Centras/ local 24hr service stations are tied to middlemen wholesalers who will not allow underselling of their produce.

If that is correct and middlemen wholesalers dont allow the underselling of their produce wouldnt they all be selling at the same price?

You make it sound like its a communist country or something, just because londis and centra spar dont have their own supplier like Lidls it doesnt mean they are tied down to one wholesaler and cant shop around for different suppliers and match those prices.

borderlinemeath

Timbuk2, you are being far from sensible.
Imo you are being selfish.
If you want to see your town degenerate into a ghost town then please continue to plow your cash across the border.

katnia

I couldn't agree more with Timbuk2 - If you want to waste your money here then by all means do so.

People are simply making a choice based on their current economic situation. Lots of people do this with their Credit Cards, people are always changing to 0% balance transfers because it makes monetary sense. I don't hear people harping on about this being disloyal, so whats the difference then? because this has the same ability to affect local jobs if enough people were to switch Credit Card companies.

This shop here argument is bullsh*t, shop where you want when you want, I personally think the government should shoulder most of the blame, they are so detatched from reality it's not even funny. Whoever thought that knocking .5% off VAT would stop a northern exoudus is crazy.

katnia

You can't really compare pricing strategy of Spar/Londis etc with that of Aldi/Dunnes/Tesco etc because they don't have the same buying power. However I think you are missing an important point.

Spar/Londis etc can never compete with the big supermarkets & they are not designed to do so, they have been set up on the basis of 'convenience' as well as value, so rather than trudging into town to go to a 'big' supermarket you have the convenience of this type of shop on most people's doorstep. They could however try a little harder to lower their prices & increase their footfall, now while this will obviously have an impact on their Gross Profit, the increase in footfall should make up for this, I persoanlly think that shops like these need to start boxing a bit cleverer in this respect, ok so you might only make 20c on a 2 litre carton of milk but if you sell more with a lower marging rather than a few with a higher margin you will make more in the long run.

It's simple really...

RustyBeanTin

i for one wouldnt mind seeing u go back to where ever you used to shop so i can find parking and be able to walk around the town like i used to, i usually do any shopping now on a weekday night because it is impossible during the weekend

borderlinemeath

Spar and Mace are owned and run by BWG wholesalers
Centra and Supervalu are owned and run by Musgraves wholesalers

I personally know a franchisee who owns a Spar outlet. He told me last week it is cheaper for him to buy a certain bottle of wine off the shelf in Tesco than to buy direct from BWG! But under the terms of his franchisee agreement he is forbidden to buy the wine (or any other foodstuff) from any other wholesaler or off any other retailer other than BWG.

A family member of my dp is employed by one of the large wholesalers in Ireland and he says that they cannot wholesale some goods as cheap as Lidl can retail them.

Tesco etc don't use wholesalers, they supply and source all their own produce and such have huge clout when it comes to buying in bulk of brand names.

I used to work for a very large UK multiple fashion group.
One of the stipulations that the company put on suppliers of goods was that a certain number of units had to be delivered and if they couldn't supply that number they would be penalised in their payment.
The result was that if a certain top was ordered and they wanted 100,000
units, the supplier would always send more, ie 105,000, to ensure that they weren't penalised. It was cheaper for them to produce more than to not get paid the agreed amount.
I would imagine this practice is rife in food supply as well, so the big multiples will always win.

**Timbuk2**

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Timbuk2, you are being far from sensible.
Imo you are being selfish.
If you want to see your town degenerate into a ghost town then please continue to plow your cash across the border.

But I'm a money-paying customer. I should have the freedom to shop anywhere I like. It's not up to me to keep shops in the town open. It's up to the owners of those shops - they took a risk by opening them, why should I spend more just because I don't want them to go bankrupt? As a consumer, I choose wherever will work out the best value for me. If those shops that are in danger of closing down, offered good value to me rather than rude staff and rip-off prices, then I would shop there, but otherwise, no.

Stephentlig

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Spar and Mace are owned and run by BWG wholesalers
Centra and Supervalu are owned and run by Musgraves wholesalers

I personally know a franchisee who owns a Spar outlet. He told me last week it is cheaper for him to buy a certain bottle of wine off the shelf in Tesco than to buy direct from BWG! But under the terms of his franchisee agreement he is forbidden to buy the wine (or any other foodstuff) from any other wholesaler or off any other retailer other than BWG.

A family member of my dp is employed by one of the large wholesalers in Ireland and he says that they cannot wholesale some goods as cheap as Lidl can retail them.

Tesco etc don't use wholesalers, they supply and source all their own produce and such have huge clout when it comes to buying in bulk of brand names.

I used to work for a very large UK multiple fashion group.
One of the stipulations that the company put on suppliers of goods was that a certain number of units had to be delivered and if they couldn't supply that number they would be penalised in their payment.
The result was that if a certain top was ordered and they wanted 100,000
units, the supplier would always send more, ie 105,000, to ensure that they weren't penalised. It was cheaper for them to produce more than to not get paid the agreed amount.
I would imagine this practice is rife in food supply as well, so the big multiples will always win.

Thank you, I've enjoyed your posts and you've so far got me on your side. I do feel that it is important for us as a people to shop local and help each other in times of financial hardship.

From looking at your posts and listening to your position I can understand that someone who owns these businesses are on the breadline just as much as we are, therefore they are in a position where their tied to the prices they dish out, taking into consideration their location and rent they pay for.

Stephen.

hellboy99

The savings I make and like many others up north pay the bills, can anyone here that calls me or anyone else unpatriotic honestly turn round and say that if I had my ESB turned off due to not paying the bill for lack of money thats ok. If I ring the ESB up and ask them could they turn my supply back on and come to some arrangement with payments as the reason why my bill went unpaid was bescause I was supporting local businesses and shopping local :rolleyes:

It's our government first and foremost that should be doing something, not us the consumer, 0.5% drop in VAT, sure they would as been aswell leaving it as it was.

How many times has it been said by us the consumers and business men that VAT and other rates need to come down. It was said numerous times on RTE's The Frontline by business men to TD's that VAT should of been lowered by 5%.

We can't support local businesses if we can't afford to shop in them, people are losing their jobs, homes, can't afford to make ends meet etc... and then to turn round and call these people "unpatriotic" is very harsh indeed. The only ones in this country that are unpatriotic is our government and there attitude of "take from the less well off and the poor to give to the rich, bankers and developers".

We've been robbed for years in this country and now that the times have changed we're expected to bail everyone out and if we don't regardless of our own situations we are unpatriotic :rolleyes:

borderlinemeath

Hellboy, if you can afford to pay up to €1000 for a TV then you are hardly struggling to pay the ESB bill!:)

Again it's back to what we want as opposed to what we actually need.
I do feel for people struggling on the breadline, my cousin is on a 3 day week, her husband is losing his job this month and they have 3 school going kids to feed. They WILL be on the breadline and if they have to shop North (which they more than likely won't as they will probably have to sell their car) then I wouldn't begrudge them.

The government has crippled the economy but we are just digging ourselves deeper into the mess by giving our very hard earned money to the UK exchequer.

hellboy99

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Hellboy, if you can afford to pay up to €1000 for a TV then you are hardly struggling to pay the ESB bill!:)

I had a job at the time when I went and bought it, I don't now :mad:

ESB was just a made up example.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

I can understand people buying in the North to save money opn something they need but any time I've been to Newry they are coming out with trollies full of beer, wine, and spirits. Hardly the shopping basket of someone trying to save money.
I'll go north for some items but only stuff I really need.

RustyBeanTin

sainsburys in newry has had the best selling off licence for a few years running now out of all the uk stores

RustyBeanTin

what is going on here is nothing new, im from newry and i can remember going to dundalk with my ma to do the grocery shopping when i was younger and i always got my diesel in the south until recently
The english went to france for years for the cheap drink and fegs but now its probably the other way about.
What you lose on the swings, you gain on the roundabouts and its probably a matter of time before it once again becomes better value to shop in the south.

hellboy99

RustyBeanTin wrote: »

what is going on here is nothing new, im from newry and i can remember going to dundalk with my ma to do the grocery shopping when i was younger and i always got my diesel in the south until recently
The english went to france for years for the cheap drink and fegs but now its probably the other way about.

Exactly, and you didn't hear and see businesses and politicians up north complaining about it every week in and on various media sources and calling you unpatriotic.

If you ask me, the whole unpatriotic excuse being used here in the south is ridiculous and a very poor excuse. Businesses open and shut every week, they're not a 100% sure thing, they're a risk, just like the many people that have lost big lumps of money in various shares or others that have been left with big mortgages and a house worth a lot less than they paid.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

I'm old enough to remember traders in Dundalk putting prices up as the buses filled with shoppers from Newry arrived in town. Recently we had the most expensive motor fuel around because petrol stations were creaming it with northern motorists. Never in those haydays did Dundalk traders do anything to encourage Northern trade, they just made as much out of it as they could. At least Northern shops are now giving bargains and incentives to get us to shop there.
What comes around goes around!

borderlinemeath

There has always been and always will be cross border shopping within the border counties...that has always been the case.

Its the tens of thousands of shoppers from all over Ireland that are going up North to buy drink/food/cars etc that are ruining the Irish economy.

Sineadmc81

You cant blame people for going to Newry when they are saving a fortune! I am from Co Down and although the traffic is a nightmare getting home due to southern reg cars I cant blame them one bit. Long may the big savings last!

quinnthebin

Jovanni Plump Serum wrote: »

I can understand people buying in the North to save money opn something they need but any time I've been to Newry they are coming out with trollies full of beer, wine, and spirits. Hardly the shopping basket of someone trying to save money.
I'll go north for some items but only stuff I really need.

Some people really need beer, wine, and spirits
If I want to buy wine, beer and spirits - buying it in the North would save me plenty of money. It's not the contents of the shopping trolley that matter - it's the price of a comparable trolley in the South.

borderlinemeath

The comparable price of a shopping trolley from a different country with a different taxation and minimum wage structure.

Its this that poople don't get....ignorant people who think they are being ripped off because they want to buy something at the same price in different countries.

Irish retailers simply cannot sell everything at the same price as the UK.
Its going to be too late when people realise this. Shops will close (as 3G did this week with the loss of 150 jobs) and more and more will join the dole queues.