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Sarah Palin on Vegetarians

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    #32
    Mark Hamill
    Registered Users Posts: 7,775 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    kumate_champ07 wrote: »
    if animals didnt eat other animals the planet would become overpopulated in a matter of days, same thing with insects, theres a huge natural bio-system at work. if there were no dung beetles Africa would be covered in sh1t, every animal and insect no matter how big or small has a big part to play, eating each other is natural and needed for harmony in nature

    This still does not adress the existence of pain. pain does not need to exist for these things to happen, not if god created them.
    kumate_champ07 wrote: »
    nature is cruel. theres no denying that. it can also be beautiful, but what is beauty without ugly? what is joy without sorrow?

    Beauty without ugly is beauty, joy without sorrow is joy. You do not need the opposite of something to exist for it itself to exist. especially when those things are subjective.


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    #33
    kumate_champ07
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,150 ✭✭✭kumate_champ07


    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    This still does not adress the existence of pain. pain does not need to exist for these things to happen, not if god created them.


    Beauty without ugly is beauty, joy without sorrow is joy. You do not need the opposite of something to exist for it itself to exist. especially when those things are subjective.

    beauty cant exist without ugly because you would not notice it


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    #34
    Mark Hamill
    Registered Users Posts: 7,775 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    kumate_champ07 wrote: »
    beauty cant exist without ugly because you would not notice it

    Which is just pseudo philosphilic waffle, tbh. Do you not notice the universe, even though the opposite of the universe does not exist? What is the opposite of the universe? Besides, objectively define beauty. You cant. Whats treasure to one man is junk to another.


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    #35
    Censorsh!t
    Registered Users Posts: 1,121 ✭✭✭Censorsh!t


    Why has this turned into a "should humans eat animals" debate?

    I hate when people bring up that animals eat other animals, so humans should also eat animals... The thing is that animals don't farm other animals, and they basically need to eat meat...and if they didnt, it's not like we can reason with them and convince them not to eat it.
    Humans don't need meat (as long as you have a balanced veg*n diet). We also have the ability to recognise it as wrong.

    And why bring up the fact that humans are suffering in the world? yes, we know, but that doesnt mean that we should completely ignore animal's suffering...we can adress both at the same time.


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    #36
    kumate_champ07
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,150 ✭✭✭kumate_champ07


    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    Which is just pseudo philosphilic waffle, tbh. Do you not notice the universe, even though the opposite of the universe does not exist? What is the opposite of the universe? Besides, objectively define beauty. You cant. Whats treasure to one man is junk to another.

    no, no its not.
    you want me to define the opposite to all matter and anti matter and everything else undiscovered in this universe?


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    #37
    kumate_champ07
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,150 ✭✭✭kumate_champ07


    Censorsh!t wrote: »
    Why has this turned into a "should humans eat animals" debate?

    I hate when people bring up that animals eat other animals, so humans should also eat animals... The thing is that animals don't farm other animals, and they basically need to eat meat...and if they didnt, it's not like we can reason with them and convince them not to eat it.
    Humans don't need meat (as long as you have a balanced veg*n diet). We also have the ability to recognise it as wrong.

    And why bring up the fact that humans are suffering in the world? yes, we know, but that doesnt mean that we should completely ignore animal's suffering...we can adress both at the same time.
    I didnt say humans 'should' eat animals, I said its perfectly normal and natural to do. Intensive farming my not be natural

    Do you know of any other animal that grows fields of potatoes and cabbage for themselves or is that just a human thing too? Is it ok for African tribes to hunt wild pigs that arent farmed? what about the eskimos that live on fish and have the lowest cases of heart disease on this planet?


    Im not against vegetarians, just some of their attitudes like yours.


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    #38
    Absurdum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,445 ✭✭✭Absurdum


    kumate_champ07 wrote: »
    we as a species developed tools to hunt animals for food, evolution. I eat meat fruit and veg and feel fit and healthy, no digestion problems. A good friend of mine was a vegetarian for 10years untill a couple of years ago, he feels stronger and fitter now that he eats meat.

    Maybe the rotting flesh of an animal in your system hasn't caused problems yet, but I wouldn't say that will always be the case. When I went from being vegetarian to vegan two and a bit years ago, I never felt stronger or fitter....different strokes and all that.
    kumate_champ07 wrote: »
    beauty cant exist without ugly because you would not notice it

    The Playboy Mansion called, they asked you to stop :P


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    #39
    kumate_champ07
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,150 ✭✭✭kumate_champ07


    Absurdum wrote: »
    Maybe the rotting flesh of an animal in your system hasn't caused problems yet, but I wouldn't say that will always be the case. When I went from being vegetarian to vegan two and a bit years ago, I never felt stronger or fitter....different strokes and all that.



    The Playboy Mansion called, they asked you to stop :P
    Im not sure what youre talking about, I dont eat rotten flesh, I eat fresh meat.
    I did see a tv programme where a guy kept meat in jars for up to a year and let it rot, then he would eat it and it wouldnt make him sick, he had adapted to it.

    maybe the fact that you beacame more aware of your bad eating/health could have been the main reason you got stronger and fitter?


    Im still wondering how the guy above jumped from 'beauty' to the entire 'universe' with his logic


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    #40
    kumate_champ07
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,150 ✭✭✭kumate_champ07


    I think a mod should lock this thread as I fail to see what can be gained from it now. we all know sara palin is an idiot,
    Im not gonna be converted to a vegan and nobody here is gonna agree that eating meat in some cases is natural and ok.


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    #41
    Absurdum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,445 ✭✭✭Absurdum


    kumate_champ07 wrote: »
    Im not sure what youre talking about, I dont eat rotten flesh, I eat fresh meat.
    I did see a tv programme where a guy kept meat in jars for up to a year and let it rot, then he would eat it and it wouldnt make him sick, he had adapted to it.
    I didn't say "rotten".

    kumate_champ07 wrote: »
    maybe the fact that you beacame more aware of your bad eating/health could have been the main reason you got stronger and fitter?

    I didn't have a bad diet or health beforehand, don't be making assumptions.


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    #42
    kumate_champ07
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,150 ✭✭✭kumate_champ07


    Absurdum wrote: »
    I didn't say "rotten".




    I didn't have a bad diet or health beforehand, don't be making assumptions.

    ok well you said 'rotting', I dont eat rotting flesh either.

    so what exactly did you do with your diet? did you leave it the same minus the meat?
    I eat just as well as a vegan, but I have the meat aswell. Im eating around 400g of stir fry mixed veg and some free range chicken right now :)


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    #43
    Censorsh!t
    Registered Users Posts: 1,121 ✭✭✭Censorsh!t


    kumate_champ07 wrote: »
    I didnt say humans 'should' eat animals, I said its perfectly normal and natural to do. Intensive farming my not be natural

    Do you know of any other animal that grows fields of potatoes and cabbage for themselves or is that just a human thing too? Is it ok for African tribes to hunt wild pigs that arent farmed? what about the eskimos that live on fish and have the lowest cases of heart disease on this planet?


    Im not against vegetarians, just some of their attitudes like yours.

    Ah, now you have jumped to the conclusion that I'm against every human eating animals!

    Did I mention I have a problem with African tribes hunting animals? or eskimos eating fish? No! I don't have a problem with that, as they need that to survive. I am against animals being inensively farmed for humans that do have the option to choose a different diet. Pease don't put words in my mouth!

    And whether it is natural or not, I am not concerned, I am concerned with the ethical factors.


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    #44
    kumate_champ07
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,150 ✭✭✭kumate_champ07


    Censorsh!t wrote: »
    Ah, now you have jumped to the conclusion that I'm against every human eating animals!

    Did I mention I have a problem with African tribes hunting animals? or eskimos eating fish? No! I don't have a problem with that, as they need that to survive. I am against animals being inensively farmed for humans that do have the option to choose a different diet. Pease don't put words in my mouth!

    And whether it is natural or not, I am not concerned, I am concerned with the ethical factors.

    but the poor animals that feel pain!? so ethically its ok to do something if you need to survive?
    do you have a problem with someone in Ireland keeping a few pigs or chickens and killing them for food?
    what about animals that get killed during vegetable processing and harvesting, Is that ok? Is intensive crop farming ok or should we all be out looking for wild berries and edible plants?


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    #45
    kumate_champ07
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,150 ✭✭✭kumate_champ07


    if you personally brought over enough veg for an eskimo family to live on for the rest of their lives would you be comfortable with the fact that their lives will be cut shorter since they wont be eating fish anymore to survive?


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    #46
    pq0n1ct4ve8zf5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭pq0n1ct4ve8zf5


    Kumate, with all due respect, what the hell are you on about? People on this forum have made the choice not to eat meat based on moral, health, or environmental concerns. Most of us have a reasonably well thought out basis for this, and are unlikely to change out minds seeing as the decision to stop eating meat entails some debate- either with yourself or with others in the first place. What is the point in coming on here and (very poorly) attempting to attack every argument that's thrown at you in a needlessly antagonistic and aggressive way, and throwing absurd hypothetical situations at people?
    kumate_champ07 wrote: »
    I think a mod should lock this thread as I fail to see what can be gained from it now. we all know sara palin is an idiot,
    Im not gonna be converted to a vegan and nobody here is gonna agree that eating meat in some cases is natural and ok.

    Stop posting in it so. Tbh I'm going to do the same as I'm getting more than a slight stink of troll.


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    #47
    kumate_champ07
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,150 ✭✭✭kumate_champ07


    Simeon Immense Butterfly wrote: »
    Kumate, with all due respect, what the hell are you on about? People on this forum have made the choice not to eat meat based on moral, health, or environmental concerns. Most of us have a reasonably well thought out basis for this, and are unlikely to change out minds seeing as the decision to stop eating meat entails some debate- either with yourself or with others in the first place. What is the point in coming on here and (very poorly) attempting to attack every argument that's thrown at you in a needlessly antagonistic and aggressive way, and throwing absurd hypothetical situations at people?



    Stop posting in it so. Tbh I'm going to do the same as I'm getting more than a slight stink of troll.

    sh1t I could say the same about the posters attacking me, rotting flesh inside, I mean come on wtf
    some of the reasons Ive heard are just idiotic or fairytale based, others are just part of todays society but intensive animal farming is not near the top humanity's worries right now

    I didnt come on here to attack anyone, I saw the sara palin reference on the main boards page and came to this thread, i havent looked at anything else in this vegan forum.

    Its obvious you are a group of people/posters that will stick together/thank each other no matter what. I dont know where you saw aggression from me, I dont even know how you could have seen anything from so high up on that horse.

    Im a meat eater so I'm the bad guy, I get it now. thanks


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    #48
    pq0n1ct4ve8zf5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭pq0n1ct4ve8zf5


    Meh, alright, I posted in haste, I admit it :P I take back saying you're being aggressive (although, that high horse comment...) and the troll thing. I still think you're arguing your point pretty poorly however, and getting in a sulk just because nobody's flying the meat eating banner on a Vegan and Vegetarian forum isn't going to help matters much.


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    #49
    kumate_champ07
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,150 ✭✭✭kumate_champ07


    Simeon Immense Butterfly wrote: »
    Meh, alright, I posted in haste, I admit it :P I take back saying you're being aggressive (although, that high horse comment...) and the troll thing. I still think you're arguing your point pretty poorly however, and getting in a sulk just because nobody's flying the meat eating banner on a Vegan and Vegetarian forum isn't going to help matters much.

    ok thank you. I wasnt supposed to argue at all as I realised it would be the same as arguing with a religous person on the existence of god, thats their belief even if you see it a different way
    I'm not in a sulk, I dont like to be misrepresented. I dont buy any food products from caged animals. I am very kind to all animals, in fact theyre my favourite subject to shoot(with my camera!)


    can we agree to disagree so?


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    #50
    Censorsh!t
    Registered Users Posts: 1,121 ✭✭✭Censorsh!t


    Yes, I think agreeing to disagree is the best, this debate has just gone a bit too off the wall


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    #51
    Mark Hamill
    Registered Users Posts: 7,775 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    kumate_champ07 wrote: »
    no, no its not.
    you want me to define the opposite to all matter and anti matter and everything else undiscovered in this universe?

    You're claiming for something to exist, its opposite needs to exist. Well, putting aside that you used a subjective things and then pointing to their subjective opposites (forgetting that neither thing actually exists until subjectively viewed), the position is nonsense. Somethings dont have opposites and somethings opposites aren't fundamentally different things. A beam of light exists, but its opposite is not darkness (which is merely the absence of light) but another beam of light with the opposite wave function, and, in fact, if these "opposites" come into contact with each other they both cease to exist.
    Saying there is no "a" without its opposite is a nonsensical pseudo philosophical statement that people use because it sounds profound, but without actually thinking of its ramifications. What is the opposite of human?


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    #52
    kumate_champ07
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,150 ✭✭✭kumate_champ07


    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    You're claiming for something to exist, its opposite needs to exist. Well, putting aside that you used a subjective things and then pointing to their subjective opposites (forgetting that neither thing actually exists until subjectively viewed), the position is nonsense. Somethings dont have opposites and somethings opposites aren't fundamentally different things. A beam of light exists, but its opposite is not darkness (which is merely the absence of light) but another beam of light with the opposite wave function, and, in fact, if these "opposites" come into contact with each other they both cease to exist.
    Saying there is no "a" without its opposite is a nonsensical pseudo philosophical statement that people use because it sounds profound, but without actually thinking of its ramifications. What is the opposite of human?

    Again you are wrong. I did not say 'everything' needs an opposite to exist.
    All you're doing is attacking me without actually understanding what I said.


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    #53
    Mark Hamill
    Registered Users Posts: 7,775 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    kumate_champ07 wrote: »
    Again you are wrong. I did not say 'everything' needs an opposite to exist.
    All you're doing is attacking me without actually understanding what I said.

    I know what you said. you said:
    beauty cant exist without ugly because you would not notice it
    If some things dont need their opposite to exist in order for them to exist why does anything need its opposite to exist in order to it to exist? Why does your statement only apply to beauty?


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    #54
    kumate_champ07
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,150 ✭✭✭kumate_champ07


    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    I know what you said. you said:

    If some things dont need their opposite to exist in order for them to exist why does anything need its opposite to exist in order to it to exist? Why does your statement only apply to beauty?

    lol
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    Well, putting aside that you used a subjective things and then pointing to their subjective opposites


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    #55
    Mark Hamill
    Registered Users Posts: 7,775 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    kumate_champ07 wrote: »
    lol

    I'm sorry, is there an answer in there?


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    #56
    kumate_champ07
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,150 ✭✭✭kumate_champ07


    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    I'm sorry, is there an answer in there?

    the answer is inside you, if you look with your heart and not your pride :)

    you do realize that pain is subjective, right?


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    #57
    sweet-rasmus
    Registered Users Posts: 3,128 ✭✭✭sweet-rasmus


    Enough!


This discussion has been closed.
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