Health care in USA

Overheal

JohnMc1 wrote: »

LOL @ you owning yourself.

Quite the opposite. Your article and you, seem to be spinning this nonsensical idea that everyone needs to own a $15k premium or face jail time - as I provided, that is simply not true and you are misrepresenting the facts.

Here is the information (again), in case you missed it:

On Nov. 2, the Congressional Budget Office estimated what the plans will likely cost. An individual earning $44,000 before taxes who purchases his own insurance will have to pay a $5,300 premium and an estimated $2,000 in out-of-pocket expenses, for a total of $7,300 a year, which is 17% of his pre-tax income. A family earning $102,100 a year before taxes will have to pay a $15,000 premium plus an estimated $5,300 out-of-pocket, for a $20,300 total, or 20% of its pre-tax income. Individuals and families earning less than these amounts will be eligible for subsidies paid directly to their insurer.

Don't be surprised if you have to pay that too. If there is a difference it won't be by too much. You know as well as I do that there shouldn't be "subsidies". It should be affordable for everyone. Anything over $1000 per annum [and one could probably argue that's steep as well] is downright criminal.

You're right: $1000 is downright criminal if you're homeless.

And I already pay a premium so im not sure what youre trying to scare me with.

This bill is not about helping people. If it was the plan would not be $15,000 per annum and there would not be a mandatory 5 year prison sentence.

Again, $15,000 if you (individual or Family) makes more than $100,000 before taxes.

Dont worry John, I am sure you wont have to pay anything. I doubt the co-pay for a Part-Timer would be very high.

nesf

JohnMc1 wrote: »

http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/usnews/health-care/2262-healthcare-bil-pay-for-a-plan-or-go-to-jail

Add some explanation of what lies behind links please when you post them.

JohnMc1

Overheal wrote: »

Quite the opposite. Your article and you, seem to be spinning this nonsensical idea that everyone needs to own a $15k premium or face jail time - as I provided, that is simply not true and you are misrepresenting the facts.

Here is the information (again), in case you missed it:

On Nov. 2, the Congressional Budget Office estimated what the plans will likely cost. An individual earning $44,000 before taxes who purchases his own insurance will have to pay a $5,300 premium and an estimated $2,000 in out-of-pocket expenses, for a total of $7,300 a year, which is 17% of his pre-tax income. A family earning $102,100 a year before taxes will have to pay a $15,000 premium plus an estimated $5,300 out-of-pocket, for a $20,300 total, or 20% of its pre-tax income. Individuals and families earning less than these amounts will be eligible for subsidies paid directly to their insurer.

You're right: $1000 is downright criminal if you're homeless.

And I already pay a premium so im not sure what youre trying to scare me with.

Again, $15,000 if you (individual or Family) makes more than $100,000 before taxes.

Dont worry John, I am sure you wont have to pay anything. I doubt the co-pay for a Part-Timer would be very high.

Keep telling yourself that. Maybe you'll believe that this Healthcare bill is good for everybody. I'll just laugh when you and everybody else that wants this realize its a bad thing.

freelancerTax

how can anyone justify that
20% of PRE TAX income on health insurance

its just insane....

JohnMc1

freelancerTax wrote: »

how can anyone justify that
20% of PRE TAX income on health insurance

its just insane....

but....."HOPE" and "CHANGE" If this disaster passes we'll start paying for this **** this coming Jan but it won't go into effect until 2014 [yes they pushed it back] and won't be fully implemented until 2016. So we'll be paying taxes for it for it for 6 years but will only get 2 years of it.

Yeah that's change we can believe in. :rolleyes:

kev9100

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Keep telling yourself that. Maybe you'll believe that this Healthcare bill is good for everybody. I'll just laugh when you and everybody else that wants this realize its a bad thing.

He never said that it was good for everybody, your just putting words in his mouth. This Bill, although far from perfect, will improve healthcare in the US and is a good first step.



P.S John Mc1, please stop regurditating Sean Hannitys talking points, its getting old.

JohnMc1

kev9100 wrote: »

He never said that it was good for everybody, your just putting words in his mouth. This Bill, although far from perfect, will improve healthcare in the US and is a good first step.

LOL.

P.S John Mc1, please stop regurditating Sean Hannitys talking points, its getting old.

LOL again. You obviously have nothing constructive to say. Back to your Olbermann and Maddow shows.

Overheal

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Keep telling yourself that.

Am I lying? Are they going to make Bob-8-grand flipping burger king whoppers pay 15 grand a year?

So we'll be paying taxes for it for it for 6 years but will only get 2 years of it.

prove it.

JohnMc1

Overheal wrote: »

Am I lying? .

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/22/business/economy/22leonhardt.html

prove it

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2009/07/why_health-care_reform_begins.html

This one says its 2013 but i believe it was just changed to 2014.

*edit* I was right*
http://www.politico.com/livepulse/1109/Major_reforms_delayed_until_2014.html

kev9100

I have nothing constructive to say? This from the guy who came up with this.

JohnMc1 wrote: »

I don't want the new 3 Stooges [Pelosi, Frank and Reid with Dodd as Shemp] running healthcare.

Why don`t you go have a good cry with Glenn Beck? I`m sure that will make you feel better.

JohnMc1

kev9100 wrote: »

I have nothing constructive to say? This from the guy who came up with this.




Why don`t you go have a good cry with Glenn Beck? I`m sure that will make you feel better.

I guess you read those links that I just posted and are currently in denial. I'm sure Olbemann and Maddow will help you feel better.

Overheal

JohnMc1 wrote: »

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/22/business/economy/22leonhardt.html

Your link is discussing Taxes, not Premiums. Or Premium-related Prison time, either.

It discusses average cost per US Household. Which is not the greatest measure. Im thinking of Bill Gates who really ****s up the average: I believe he once said in an interview that if he dropped a bag with $10,000 in it in the middle of Downtown and walked away, it would end up costing him more money to go pick it back up than it would to keep walking.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2009/07/why_health-care_reform_begins.html

Does nothing to prove we will be paying taxes on the plan before it comes into effect.

http://www.politico.com/livepulse/1109/Major_reforms_delayed_until_2014.html

Discusses tax credits; does not mention anything about paying taxes before the bulk of the plan comes into effect. I dont see any mention here of paying taxes on the early legislative actions. Nowhere does it mention 6 years of taxation for 2 years of benefits.

And for f*cks sake, summarize your links. You know, copy and paste? Pull relevant quotations?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c66pvfilotA

JohnMc1

Overheal wrote: »

Your link is discussing Taxes, not Premiums. Or Premium-related Prison time, either.

Does nothing to prove we will be paying taxes on the plan before it comes into effect.
Discusses tax credits; does not mention anything about paying taxes before the bulk of the plan comes into effect. I dont see any mention here of paying taxes on the early legislative actions.

Really? Good to know you're a good reader:

Divvy that up, and health care will cost the typical household roughly $15,000 this year

If the bill begins in 2010, but the subsidies don't kick in until 2013,

The Senate bill pushes back implementation of major parts of the reform to 2014 -- a change from 2013

Overheal

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Really? Good to know you're a good reader:

I'll drag myself down to your level for juuuuust a moment:



Did You read it?

The United States now devotes one-sixth of its economy to medicine. Divvy that up, and health care will cost the typical household roughly $15,000 this year, including the often-invisible contributions by employers. That is almost twice as much as two decades ago (adjusting for inflation). It’s about $6,500 more than in other rich countries, on average.

That is Before Healthcare Reform.


Your move.

jank

Hey John, Look at the bright side. If you go into remission at least you wont have to lie to avail of an other operation this time around!

The government saves your life (again!), and you get to go to heavan for not telling fibs! Win - Win!

JohnMc1

http://www.dickmorris.com/blog/2009/10/19/how-much-obamacare-costs-the-average-family/

http://www.thenewatlantis.com/blog/diagnosis/whos-really-paying-for-obamacare

Overheal

JohnMc1 wrote: »

http://www.dickmorris.com/blog/2009/10/19/how-much-obamacare-costs-the-average-family/

Im not clicking on any more of your shyte. Sorry. You've already gone past your alotted 3 per day.

You'll just have to post your own opinions - even though your opinions are Spundit opinions.

Perhaps you would care to summarize what im clicking - for all I know you've exhausted all your options in polite debate and are trying to have a trojan installed on my computer to silence reason.

JohnMc1

Overheal wrote: »

Im not clicking on any more of your shyte. Sorry. You've already gone past your alotted 3 per day.

You'll just have to post your own opinions - even though your opinions are Spundit opinions.

LOL. In other words you can't bare to be wrong so you're going to throw a hissy fit.

Overheal

You havent proven how Im wrong though. You just fire off little links. You'd think if you were right about something (or you thought you were right) you'd at least spend a few keystrokes gloating about it and displaying in elaborate detail how right you are for all to see. You "debate" like an adolescent child, and you have done since pre-caucus.

Grow up.

JohnMc1

Overheal wrote: »

You havent proven how Im wrong though. You "debate" like an adolescent child, and you have done since pre-caucus.

Grow up.

Practice what you preach there. What I posted is the truth about the Healthcare bill. If you want to have a hissy fit and ignore them that is your perrogative but don't run around telling people to grow up when you obviously need to yourself.

Overheal

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Practice what you preach there. What I posted is the truth about the Healthcare bill. If you want to have a hissy fit and ignore them that is your perrogative but don't run around telling people to grow up when you obviously need to yourself.

I have read your link sir and still it only serves to prove you wrong: the average household will not have to pay $15,000 a year or face Jailtime.

In fact, if you make $33,000 a year (at least twice what I make) you only have to pay Fifteen Hundred, not Fifteen Thousand, as you have been trying feverishly to push as a Fact today, and you have been disproven about 5 times already, by yours truly. Even the lad making 22 grand only is to pay $440. I imagine the minimum I would need to pay for a premium (~13-15,000 per annum gross earnings) Is going to be what, $250? $200?

* Even those making just $33,000 will have to ante up 4.5 percent of their income (about $1500) for health insurance.

* The required payments reach so far down the scale that those who are living at the federal poverty level of $22,000 will have to shell out 2 percent of their totally inadequate incomes ($440) for insurance.

$15,000 indeed.

The Fact lain down by whatever internal memo suggested it, was that Families or Individuals earning above and around $102,000 would have to own a $15,000 premium to avoid Penalty and Possible Jailtime.

The only thing you are correct in even suggesting is that $15,000 or Go to Jail will affect Some Americans: Those earning in excess of One Hundred Thousand Dollars.

As for being taxed before seeing benefits, again, you've actually handed us all proof that its in fact Quite the opposite:

* When the tax — and the legislation — takes effect in 2013, all families making about $120,000 or more in combined household income (14 percent of all families or one in seven) will have to pay the tax.
* By the next year, 2014, the tax will hit every family making more than $100,000 (about 18 percent of all families or one in six)
* By 2019, 10 years hence, the tax will reach down to effect every family making more than $75,000 a year (31 percent of families or one in three).

You've actually managed to place your foot firmly in your mouth (where it belongs, clearly) by proving when it comes to effect in 2013, only 14% of families will pay tax on it - in 2013. Not 2010, when we pass a Bill. It will take until 2019 for 100% of individuals and families to begin being taxed by the new Healthcare Reform Plan.

All I see is that you've served to negate every single point you've tried to make today.

edit: I should also clarify from Dick's blog,

* The required payments reach so far down the scale that those who are living at the federal poverty level of $22,000 will have to shell out 2 percent of their totally inadequate incomes ($440) for insurance.

the Poverty line is $22,000 for a family of four, not an individual (which is ~$10,830) - Source

I thought something was wrong with thinking 22 grand was the FPL for an individual - I own a fecking 06' Jeep and make less :pac:

jank

JohnMc1 wrote: »

http://www.dickmorris.com/blog/2009/10/19/how-much-obamacare-costs-the-average-family/

http://www.thenewatlantis.com/blog/diagnosis/whos-really-paying-for-obamacare

Dick fcuking Morris. Come on seriously? Do you just google keywords like, "health care bad" and copy and paste the first few hits?

Do you have any opinion of yourself that isnt driven by over paid pundits who are not interested in the truth?

jank

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Practice what you preach there. What I posted is the truth about the Healthcare bill. If you want to have a hissy fit and ignore them that is your perrogative but don't run around telling people to grow up when you obviously need to yourself.

No its not! Its opinion and the sad thing is it's not even yours, it borrowed from others who spout crap for the "cause".

Overheal ignore him, he is just a cheap jack in the box that one cant argue with because he doesn't adhere to reality or reason.

Overheal

jank wrote: »

No its not! Its opinion and the sad thing is it's not even yours, it borrowed from others who spout crap for the "cause".

Overheal ignore him, he is just a cheap jack in the box that one cant argue with because he doesn't adhere to reality or reason.

Oh I would, but truthfully I get a morbid sense of satisfaction from blitzing him with logical deduction.

I hope that through the frustration of being foiled time and again, he'll burst from the bubble and emerge an Independently Thinking Human Being.

jank

Overheal wrote: »

Oh I would, but truthfully I get a morbid sense of satisfaction from blitzing him with logical deduction.

I hope that through the frustration of being foiled time and again, he'll burst from the bubble and emerge an Independently Thinking Human Being.

LOL sometimes I think he is just taking the piss and doing a comedy sketch on what some right wing republicans act like and in turn taking the piss out of us with his satire. God help him otherwise.

LostinKildare

Overheal wrote: »

I hope that through the frustration of being foiled time and again, he'll burst from the bubble and emerge an Independently Thinking Human Being.

Not. Gonna. Happen. (But Trojan effort there, Overheal. +1)

Pocono Joe

jank wrote: »

I think rather this guy dressed in a penguin suit better exemplifies someone who is not very good at logic.
(see Stimulus, Cap and Trade, Health Care Reform, etc…)

kev9100

jank wrote: »

That is just pure brillaince.

+1

Overheal

Pocono Joe wrote: »

I think rather this guy dressed in a penguin suit better exemplifies someone who is not very good at logic.
(see Stimulus, Cap and Trade, Health Care Reform, etc…)

had to find him in the tux photo so it wouldnt be racist

jank

Pocono Joe wrote: »

I think rather this guy dressed in a penguin suit better exemplifies someone who is not very good at logic.
(see Stimulus, Cap and Trade, Health Care Reform, etc…)

I think a mirror would be more appropriate for you PJ.