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Health care in USA

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  • Registered Users Posts: 83,333 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    how can anyone justify that
    20% of PRE TAX income on health insurance

    its just insane....
    Yeah I apologize, because John needed an Education, but we can get back to this point now that its been clarified whom it affects: Those earning over 100,000 gross. @John its not that I have a problem with you being against something - I have a problem with you distorting the facts. Its completely unnecessary. Not to mention you just outright refuse to engage in Debate! I would love it if you would Debate! But you Dont! You dont say anything! You link! IF I want to read Dick Morris' opinion I will read Dick Morris' blog. But Im asking your opinion. You refuse to give it. Which is leading me to believe you dont have an opinion. Making it very hard for me to respect you. You're a person. BE a F@#king Person! Refer to my sig. /rant

    @Freelancer I agree with you.

    It does mean that anyone earning 100k plus has to own this large premium, and 15 grand is large. My Dad for instance Grossed 200k in the last year and pays a 4k premium. 15k is just more than the man needs, surely. Thats not even to say someone who makes 200grand vs 102,000 will need to own an even more expensive premium (God help Bill Gates - would he need a $50m premium?).

    It doesnt affect me, but it affects [My Padrino]. I already have a premium that would well fall into proposed legislation. He doesnt. He would need to start paying an extra 12000 at least. $1300 a month instead of $300 a month. Which is kinda a big deal. A large chunk of Change, if you will. Mind the Pun. Oh, and dont forget, If I read yesterday correctly, they will then Tax the premium too - for expensive premiums eg. 15k I think it was 40%? So 15k, Plus 40% of 15k. clap clap clap.

    But thats why if it went to vote I couldnt vote for that. See if I can afford to own much more than my minimum required premium will be (I said probably $250 per year? I definitely pay a fair bit more than that - iirc its 2k) Why does the Government need to "Protect me" and offer subsidies to me, and take that subsidy money from the Upper income bracket? I dont need the subsidy: I am doing alright. I can probably swing $300 a year! Christ. I dont need to own an 06' Cherokee either. I could probably trade it down for a beater before I had to ask the government to help me.

    So yes, the Enforced Minimum Premium thing, and the Tiered taxing scheme on this thing (tiered taxing on premiums for instance) definitely irks me. I dont know why we cant just keep it simple, and pass the proper stuff, like Pre-Existing Condition laws. Because the tax code for this thing is definitely ****ed up, once you know at least sorta know what you're talking about.

    So at least, thats what I see, and from the above information (you can find most of this in my earlier posts), it certainly seems like discrimination toward the wealthy; redistribution of wealth etc. and Im not very sure thats a good thing.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 795 ✭✭✭Pocono Joe


    jank wrote: »
    I think a mirror would be more appropriate for you PJ.
    Now you hurt my feeling jank. :( But as a consolation, I look pretty good in a tux, and even contributed to the styling of several tuxedo designs when I worked in formalwear for Ralph Lauren and Perry Ellis. Now that was a crazy business which did defy logic. ;)


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Didnt know you were an underwear model?
    Flex those Pex's!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 795 ✭✭✭Pocono Joe


    jank wrote: »
    Didnt know you were an underwear model?
    Flex those Pex's!
    Hey... I’ve been mistaken for David Hasselhoff more than once in my younger days I’ll have you know (although he has aged much more gracefully than me :(). Unfortunately not photogenic – too much touch up work for the photographers (before the days of photoshop). Worked behind the scenes, although forced to stand in once or twice when models didn’t show up. Never underwear... camera lens kept breaking :eek:. Will I be able to get cosmetic surgery under ObamaCare… the jowels need some work?


  • Registered Users Posts: 83,333 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    No, thats volunteer. Im fairly sure that wont be comp'd.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Pocono Joe wrote: »
    Hey... I’ve been mistaken for David Hasselhoff more than once in my younger days I’ll have you know (although he has aged much more gracefully than me :(). Unfortunately not photogenic – too much touch up work for the photographers (before the days of photoshop). Worked behind the scenes, although forced to stand in once or twice when models didn’t show up. Never underwear... camera lens kept breaking :eek:. Will I be able to get cosmetic surgery under ObamaCare… the jowels need some work?

    LOL Thats funny, never figured you to be a Hoffmister!
    Bring back the 80's!
    I think a new hip would be more appropriate for a man of your vintage than some silicon. ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 83,333 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Pocono: /Kitt, get me outta here.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 795 ✭✭✭Pocono Joe


    I hear Andrew Breibart (http://biggovernment.com) and Glenn Beck are revealing something about the Health Care Reform at 5 PM (EST-US) today that should kill the bill. Supposedly it is story that the mainstream will ignore until they are forced to not ignore it any longer, the public will be outraged, and the administration and democrats will go into damage control. Don’t really know much more then that, and could be just some sensationalism on their part… I guess we shall see.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 151 ✭✭BlueLepreachaun


    I hardly think a mentally ill fox host who draws conspircy diagrams on his chalk board and randomly bursts into tears on air has the credability to "kill" any proposal.


  • Registered Users Posts: 83,333 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Pocono Joe wrote: »
    I hear Andrew Breibart (http://biggovernment.com) and Glenn Beck are revealing something about the Health Care Reform at 5 PM (EST-US) today that should kill the bill. Supposedly it is story that the mainstream will ignore until they are forced to not ignore it any longer, the public will be outraged, and the administration and democrats will go into damage control. Don’t really know much more then that, and could be just some sensationalism on their part… I guess we shall see.
    "BREAKING NEWS: Something in your Dinner tonight could Kill you and your loved ones. Find out what it is... Tonight @ 11:00, after Family Guy!"

    Honestly Joe.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 795 ✭✭✭Pocono Joe


    I hardly think a mentally ill fox host who draws conspircy diagrams on his chalk board and randomly bursts into tears on air has the credability to "kill" any proposal.


    siren.gif

    WARNING!... Another Ad Hominem argument alert! :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 83,333 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Ah its not as if you/beck has presented anything yet, we're just quietly expecting it to be a bit fruity.

    I will read what Glenn has to say tomorrow morning in the papers if its news worthy - I wont give that man the ratings he is obviously fishing for.

    Its like that time Pinky and The Brain orchestrated the simultaneous flushing of most of the world's toilets for world domination by using sensationalist media tactics. I miss cartoons.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 795 ✭✭✭Pocono Joe


    Overheal wrote: »
    Ah its not as if you/beck has presented anything yet, we're just quietly expecting it to be a bit fruity.

    I will read what Glenn has to say tomorrow morning in the papers if its news worthy - I wont give that man the ratings he is obviously fishing for.

    And who determines if it is newsworthy? Last I heard (because it hasn’t been printed yet :rolleyes:) the big newspaper organizations still refuse to report on ClimateGate, even after one of the heads involved in the emails resigned. (And that is why I provided Andrew Breibart’s link… so the good soldiers of Obama won’t have to give Fox News any credibility ;))


  • Registered Users Posts: 83,333 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Pocono Joe wrote: »
    And who determines if it is newsworthy?
    I guess you will, when you watch it later, find it riveting, then post about it here tonight. Until then.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 795 ✭✭✭Pocono Joe


    Overheal wrote: »
    I guess you will, when you watch it later, find it riveting, then post about it here tonight. Until then.

    Unfortunately, I don't count. I was just providing a "heads up" for anybody interested.


  • Registered Users Posts: 83,333 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    why shouldnt you count? I cant remember the last time I turned on the TV to get my news. Or the last time I used - well actually, I pretty much let boards.ie bring news to me. So there you go Joe: I pronounce thee a journalist. Get at em.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 795 ✭✭✭Pocono Joe


    Overheal wrote: »
    So there you go Joe: I pronounce thee a journalist. Get at em.

    What a horrible thing to say these days... what have I ever done to you ;)? At least I have the integrity to admit my biased opinion points of view regarding US news events. Then again, my livelihood is not contingent on what some left leaning progressive ideologue of an editor or publisher thinks.

    Oh yeah... has anyone else heard that the most current Health Care Bill allows the US government to have instant access to your individual finances, and grants them authority to take and transfer money away from you. If true, how is that health care? Anyone else hear of this (haven’t read it yet… it will take about another 3 months till I get through reading the bill)?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 151 ✭✭BlueLepreachaun


    Pocono Joe wrote: »
    What a horrible thing to say these days... what have I ever done to you ;)? At least I have the integrity to admit my biased opinion points of view regarding US news events. Then again, my livelihood is not contingent on what some left leaning progressive ideologue of an editor or publisher thinks.

    Oh yeah... has anyone else heard that the most current Health Care Bill allows the US government to have instant access to your individual finances, and grants them authority to take and transfer money away from you. If true, how is that health care? Anyone else hear of this (haven’t read it yet… it will take about another 3 months till I get through reading the bill)?

    Thats probably because theres going to be a tax penalty to essentially fine you if you dont' buy insurance, and its a ****ing stupid idea.
    Ironically none of that bs would be nessicary with a single payer system, which Obama has taken off the table because he's terrified of the right wing he supposidly beat in the election.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Beck kill Health Care? The only way he could kill it is to commission a hit on Obama which tbf is not too far fetched.

    Anyway let us know what it is PJ some of us progressives have to work.:D


  • Registered Users Posts: 83,333 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Is google conspiring against Glenn Beck.... or is Glenn Beck conspiring against Beck, Glenn? You be the judge. This is what I found when I tried to see if the world had been turned on its head by Glenn Beck's Eye Opening Proclaimation (about what?) tonight, and instead I found this.

    http://www.indecisionforever.com/2009/08/14/jon-stewart-owns-glenn-beck-on-healthcare-hypocrisy/

    Bon Appetit.

    As far as I can tell the only thing thats changed for Glenn since 2008 is a) He's no longer at the mercy of the Healthcare system and b) Theres a Democrat in the White House.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 795 ✭✭✭Pocono Joe


    Didn’t get to see Beck either… Conservatives work also. ;)

    Bit of a letdown if the revaluation involves the assertion that blueprint for the Democratic health care reform bill was penned in jail by Bob Creamer. The American people have come to accept jail as just being a symbolic vacation home for members of the Obama administration. As for health care being a manufactured crisis with manufactured rage… well DUH!

    Below is truly a representation of what is going on IMO.
    He also lays out a “Progressive Agenda for Structural Change,” which includes a ten-point plan for foisting universal health care on the American people in 2009:

    * “We must create a national consensus that health care is a right, not a commodity; and that government must guarantee that right.”
    * “We must create a national consensus that the health care system is in crisis.”
    * “Our messaging program over the next two years should focus heavily on reducing the credibility of the health insurance industry and focusing on the failure of private health insurance.”
    * “We need to systematically forge relationships with large sectors of the business/employer community.”
    * “We need to convince political leaders that they owe their elections, at least in part, to the groundswell of support of [sic] universal health care, and that they face political peril if they fail to deliver on universal health care in 2009.”
    * “We need not agree in advance on the components of a plan, but we must foster a process that can ultimately yield consensus.”
    * “Over the next two years, we must design and organize a massive national field program.”
    * “We must focus especially on the mobilization of the labor movement and the faith community.”
    * “We must systematically leverage the connections and resources of a massive array of institutions and organizations of all types.”
    * “To be successful, we must put in place commitments for hundreds of millions of dollars to be used to finance paid communications and mobilization once the battle is joined.”

    Creamer adds: “To win we must not just generate understanding, but emotion—fear, revulsion, anger, disgust.”
    http://biggovernment.com/2009/12/07/was-democrats-health-care-strategy-written-in-federal-prison/

    Sure the Democratic health care bill should be killed in it's current form, but even if these revelations are true, it won’t stop the stampede to the restructuring nonsense and economic ruin. The American sheeple will continue to buy this stuff proposed by Dems hook, line and sinker. I just wish they wouldn’t drag me under along with them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 83,333 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Creamer adds: “To win we must not just generate understanding, but emotion—fear, revulsion, anger, disgust.”
    Are you sure Creamer said that? Are you sure it wasn't, Glenn Beck? OR maybe it was Cheney. Could have been Karl Rove. Tell me, who came up with Terror Alert: Elevated, and who blindly touted the WMD claims for months to get our country into a second war?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 795 ✭✭✭Pocono Joe


    Overheal wrote: »
    Are you sure Creamer said that? Are you sure it wasn't, Glenn Beck? OR maybe it was Cheney. Could have been Karl Rove.
    According to the article... Creamer.
    Tell me, who came up with Terror Alert: Elevated
    Tom Ridge
    who blindly touted the WMD claims for months to get our country into a second war?
    British Intelligence

    ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 83,333 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    well met :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 795 ✭✭✭Pocono Joe


    An excellent piece by Dick Morris (former adviser to Bill Clinton) is out today, on the Democrat’s push for health care legislation. It questions the mindset of Democrats who are pushing through health care bills which over 60% of the population disapprove of in any form. I’m with Morris, I just don’t understand their thought process. It will eventually become political suicide for those who voted for it once the ramifications of the bill hits voters pocketbooks (unless the Dems can get Illegal Aliens citizenship within the next year). I’m all for getting most if not all Democrats out of Congress, but not at the expense of our citizens.
    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/12/09/_the_charge_of_the_280_dems_99475.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 83,333 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    The same Dick Morris I yelled about toward JohnMc1 and scared him away from the discussion?

    Thanks for summarizing though.

    It reads a bit more like poetry than debatory thought (for obvious reasons) but he has a point.

    What about a Referendum? They want to push it as a Constitutional Right. Doesnt that need to become a Voter-Established Referendum?


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    Pocono Joe wrote: »
    An excellent piece by Dick Morris (former adviser to Bill Clinton) is out today,

    Dick Morris?

    Sure he worked for the clintons and what a mistake that was. It turned out he was passing along admin secrets to his hooker.

    He's been a fervently right wing anti-democrat for years.

    And I dont think any of his predictions have ever come true.


  • Registered Users Posts: 83,333 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    ..........welcome to boards?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    I think the word Dick Morris should be banned from Boards ;)
    Might as well add Dick Cheney to that list as well sure why not we ban the word Dick altogether.:D


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  • Registered Users Posts: 83,333 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    jank wrote: »
    I think the word Dick Morris should be banned from Boards ;)
    Might as well add Dick Cheney to that list as well sure why not we ban the word Dick altogether.:D
    On the contrary I find dissenting opinions quite healthy. When theyre presented civilly that is.


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