Liverpool v Manchester City

~Rebel~

copacetic wrote: »

It also looked like a pre planned move and although zonal has been proven to work over the years it appears to me that other sides are spending a lot of time working on ways to beat it at set pieces. Its a realtively easy move to work out our zones and have all attackers move back and forward between them which causes us a fair bit of confusion.

except that the point of the system is you dont worry about players moving zones - you worry about the ball entering zones. When the ball enters your zone, its your job to win it. If you don't you've failed in your job. From today it's very clear the players didn't do this. They vacated their positions, when if everyone had remained, someone would have been there to at least compete for the ball.

~Rebel~

Headshot wrote: »

sorry now but thats rubbish in one aspect

liverpool bought an injured player, aquaman could turn out to be a great buy but the league is over now. if liverpool bought a fit player, I would be pretty sure liverpool would still be in the title race.

maybe, if that fit player was a top notch CB. The place we've consistently fallen down is in defence this season. Our midfield and attack have been grand, its the stupid stupid conceded goals that are killing us.

copacetic

~Rebel~ wrote: »

except that the point of the system is you dont worry about players moving zones - you worry about the ball entering zones. When the ball enters your zone, its your job to win it. If you don't you've failed in your job. From today it's very clear the players didn't do this. They vacated their positions, when if everyone had remained, someone would have been there to at least compete for the ball.

I'm agreeing! Basically its not working as the players don't trust it and half are man marking/not competing and the other half are. We can't seem to sort that out though which is a big problem.

~Rebel~

copacetic wrote: »

I'm agreeing! Basically its not working as the players don't trust it and half are man marking/not competing and the other half are. We can't seem to sort that out though which is a big problem.

yeah, big time. Its a really strange state we're in at the back. At the moment, even when players are there and competing they're still coming off second best. Like the goal against brum, where it was won twice in a row by brum players in our box, the second being the goalscorer. Regardless of system, when defenders are competing directly with forwards, to lose out twice in a row in the air is really really bad.

Headshot

~Rebel~ wrote: »

maybe, if that fit player was a top notch CB. The place we've consistently fallen down is in defence this season. Our midfield and attack have been grand, its the stupid stupid conceded goals that are killing us.

your midfield wasnt grand today

lucas has been very much up and down this season and most of ye say he is a squad player so I would presume if a fit midfielder came in during the summer lucas wouldn't be first choice

Mr Alan

midfield was grand today imo, thought masch & lucas were both decent.

agree 100% with Rebel, its constantly conceding stupid goals thats killing us this season.

~Rebel~

Headshot wrote: »

your midfield wasnt grand today

lucas has been very much up and down this season and most of ye say he is a squad player so I would presume if a fit midfielder came in during the summer lucas wouldn't be first choice

midfield (and lucas) was grand for the first half, in the second half the whole team crumbled a bit after we took the lead.

I wasn't speaking about today so much as the whole season. By and large we've been fine in midfield and up front, its been at the back we've been consistently rubbish. Where a better midfielder may have helped a bit, it wouldn't have stopped the major reason for our troubles. Which is worrying as its a good midfielder we have coming into the team soon, not someone to sort out our defence, so I'm not sure how I see it improving.

monkey9

ntlbell wrote: »

why? god forbid someone on liverpool tv has an honest opinion?

Jaysus, what's the point of threads on this forum when the likes of this nonsense exists.

As a Man U fan, why are you so more interested in Liverpool FC??

I can't understand how, as Man Utd supporter, you have more of an interest in Liverpool FC, than your beloved club!!!

Headshot

monkey9 wrote: »

Jaysus, what's the point of threads on this forum when the likes of this nonsense exists.

As a Man U fan, why are you so more interested in Liverpool FC??

I can't understand how, as Man Utd supporter, you have more of an interest in Liverpool FC, than your beloved club!!!

Youre in the wrong forum mate, rawk or what ever that it is called is right up your alley

UnitedIrishman

Mr Alan wrote: »

midfield was grand today imo, thought masch & lucas were both decent.

agree 100% with Rebel, its constantly conceding stupid goals thats killing us this season.

Judging on the defence today, I'd agree with that. There's a massive lack of pace between the center back pairings you lot have. Carragher, Skrtel and Kyrgiakos aren't the quickest movers and Agger is injured quite often. When Bellamy and SWP ran at the defence they looked ragged and easily turned.

I know it's a cliché but if you don't concede you don't lose games. Liverpool haven't had anywhere near the same clean sheet record as years before.

jank

Saw the game and it is all too aparant the gap between the top 3 and the rest battling it out for 4th. Some school boy stuff from both sides. Draw was a fair result.

~Rebel~

jank wrote: »

Saw the game and it is all too aparant the gap between the top 3 and the rest battling it out for 4th. Some school boy stuff from both sides. Draw was a fair result.

At this point I think its more a top 2. I don't think Arsenal are on the same level as the other two in terms of squad depth and consistency. For Liverpool or arsenal to win the league, it would require being very fortunate with injuries and both of those top two to mess up in a way they very rarely do.

rossie1977

~Rebel~ wrote: »

maybe, if that fit player was a top notch CB. The place we've consistently fallen down is in defence this season. Our midfield and attack have been grand, its the stupid stupid conceded goals that are killing us.

spot on, liverpool have scored 29 goals in 13 games in the league, more than man utd and this despite missing torres and gerrard again for numerous games. defence is killing them, 20 goals conceded in 13 games is shocking and all the more shocking when you consider liverpool have conceded 25,27,28,27 last 4 seasons after 38 games. they are on course to break the 60 goals conceded barrier this season if they continue in the same vein :eek:

Spiritoftheseventies

I think what needs to happen is to reduce champions league places from four to three. We could have the worst run ever and still qualify for it. Its laughable.
But the situation with Torres is a bit depressing. Has anyone any stats in terms of games he played in last three seasons. He was injury free first season and then after European Championships all the trouble started. We lose him and I think we will in big trouble

PHB

~Rebel~ wrote: »

At this point I think its more a top 2. I don't think Arsenal are on the same level as the other two in terms of squad depth and consistency. For Liverpool or arsenal to win the league, it would require being very fortunate with injuries and both of those top two to mess up in a way they very rarely do.

Arsenal do look a different side without Van Persie, no doubt. But at the same time, Sunderland have done numbers on an awful lot of the top 4. It'll be interesting to see how they are next week without Van Persie, but I firmly believe that if Fabregas and Van Persie can stay fit, Arsenal will be there or thereabouts in May.

SlickRic

Mr Alan wrote: »

midfield was grand today imo, thought masch & lucas were both decent.

first half decent.

second half masch was decent enough, but lucas was anonymous and directly at fault for City's 2nd goal.

but previously in the season, yeah i'd agree, midfield hasn't been our main problem.

Handsome Bob

ntlbell wrote: »

why? god forbid someone on liverpool tv has an honest opinion?

It's not honest, he's a born ****e talker who has his eye on Dunphy's throne at RTE as the resident sour faced sensationalist. The team we put out against Debrecen according to him cost £250m, it was actually £78m. He went on a dumb ****ing rant about the team we played against Fulham even though it was clear as day that players were either injured or not 100% fit. The man is also a borderline xenophobe, constantly referring to "them foreign managers". Honest opinions? LOL.

Mr Alan

jank wrote: »

Saw the game and it is all too aparant the gap between the top 3 and the rest battling it out for 4th. Some school boy stuff from both sides. Draw was a fair result.

LOL:eek:

didnt Arsenal lose yesterday & have had the easiest fixtures so far of all the teams in & around them?

same old Arsenal this season mate, i'd be willing to put money on it.

Theresalwaysone

I thought Masch was pretty good yesterday.

Seems like he has been working on his passing too, or at least being told to try and spray the bal around as I think hes doing it a lot more than he used too. Still has the odd howler of a ball granted.

Mr Alan

i have to watch Irelands goal, but didnt notice Lucas being at fault yesterday. thought Kyriakos got too close to Wright Phillips, which caused it.

SlickRic

Mr Alan wrote: »

i have to watch Irelands goal, but didnt notice Lucas being at fault yesterday. thought Kyriakos got too close to Wright Phillips, which caused it.

he was starting to track Ireland, then just stopped, assuming Kyrgiakos would stop SWP. which he should have, you're right.

but if lucas keeps tracking him, Ireland doesn't score.

noodler

Mr Alan wrote: »

LOL:eek:

didnt Arsenal lose yesterday & have had the easiest fixtures so far of all the teams in & around them?

same old Arsenal this season mate, i'd be willing to put money on it.

Sunderland away is not easier than Everton at home.

Especially considering their respective form and injuries.

Melion

Mr Alan wrote: »

i have to watch Irelands goal, but didnt notice Lucas being at fault yesterday. thought Kyriakos got too close to Wright Phillips, which caused it.

100% Lucas' fault unfortunately. He just stopped tracking Ireland outside the box.

Mr Alan

noodler wrote: »

Sunderland away is not easier than Everton at home.

Especially considering their respective form and injuries.

i meant the games played so far.

copacetic

Melion wrote: »

100% Lucas' fault unfortunately. He just stopped tracking Ireland outside the box.

thats pretty harsh, Skirtel handed the ball to Tevez, which was shockingly bad, then Kyriakos lets Philips turn him really easily. Ireland ghosts in behind Lucas but he was already covering the whole edge of the area and only after the pass goes to Philips can he move to cover Ireland. He doesn't do it and looked like he though he was playing offise which is poor but at worst the goal is 1/3 his fault.

Melion

copacetic wrote: »

thats pretty harsh, Skirtel handed the ball to Tevez, which was shockingly bad, then Kyriakos lets Philips turn him really easily. Ireland ghosts in behind Lucas but he was already covering the whole edge of the area and only after the pass goes to Philips can he move to cover Ireland. He doesn't do it and looked like he though he was playing offise which is poor but at worst the goal is 1/3 his fault.

I know all that but Lucas tracks Ireland and there is no goal.

flahavaj

Spurs making a big statement in the race for fourth I see.

Melion

Fúck me, thats some result.

SlickRic

flahavaj wrote: »

Spurs making a big statement in the race for fourth I see.

freak result, and meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

consistency is still the problem.

whichever of us puts a run together will get 4th.

spurs still have to prove they have a team capable of going on a run.

but yeah, it was an impressive result.

Spiritoftheseventies

As Whelo said last night (and he said one or two valid things) the teams with the strongest squads will win out.
That said Spurs were unlucky two seasons ago. Lost out on fourth spot after that food poisoning thing in final game of season.
We should not be taking anything for granted.

Bandit12

flahavaj wrote: »

Spurs making a big statement in the race for fourth I see.

Arsenal will struggle to beat them into forth this season i'd think.

BERBA

Team with the strongest squad will get 4th spot and thats spurs .

Melion

Surely they all had a stronger squad than us last year(chelsea in particular) and we still beat them all to second.

rossie1977

BERBA wrote: »

Team with the strongest squad will get 4th spot and thats spurs .

team that finishes on 66+ points will get 4th spot, 65 points will probably do it

anyway doesn't city have the strongest squad??

SlickRic

BERBA wrote: »

Team with the strongest squad will get 4th spot and thats spurs .

they've still never proved they're consistency over a lengthy run of games.

i think they're the most likely to challenge liverpool, but i've to see more game on game to be convinced.

but they definitely have one of the better squads.

BERBA

rossie1977 wrote: »

team that finishes on 66+ points will get 4th spot, 65 points will probably do it

anyway doesn't city have the strongest squad??

city defence will be their undoing this season. They wont finish in top 4. Too many draws already.

Headshot

BERBA wrote: »

city defence will be their undoing this season. They wont finish in top 4. Too many draws already.

if its any consolation to ya berba

i would like spurs to get 4th spot

SlickRic

Headshot wrote: »

if its any consolation to ya berba

i would like spurs to get 4th spot

surprise surprise

man, i'd have definitely thought you'd want City or Liverpool to get it...

jank

Spurs are too inconsistent. They dont have the capacity over a league campaign to go on a run. Arsenal beat them easily without having to break a sweet. Man City will buy in the window and they will be favorites for 4th spot.

rossie1977

BERBA wrote: »

city defence will be their undoing this season. They wont finish in top 4. Too many draws already.

wait a second, spurs have conceded more goals than city this season so far

far too early to predict anything at this stage, e.g. on march 1st last year liverpool were in the middle of a terrible run just after losing to bottom of the table boro day before, won 2 games since december or something like that in the league, arsenal had 4 or 5 goal-less draws in a row, villa seemed primed to take fourth spot and maybe pass liverpool to take 3rd

3.Liverpool Pld:27 Pts:55
4.Aston Villa Pld:26 Pts:51
5.Arsenal Pld:27 Pts:46

blackbetty69

yeah making predicions at this stage of the season is tough... anything can happen, but i do think it will be a familiar top four finish again.. maybe next season city or spurs will be up there

Spiritoftheseventies

Yes lets not forget Pool are always strong after Christmas. But just wondering what is going on with Benny. Not getting enough first team starts for a player of his quality. Would definitely be a starter for me.

gucci

Benny was only back from injury on Saturday, having hobbled off in the Birmingham game.

Spiritoftheseventies

Maybe so but how many games has he started this year.

Boggles

bayviewclose wrote: »

Yes lets not forget Pool are always strong after Christmas.

Incorrect, traditionally Liverpool are poor after Christmas.

It isn't until usually March when they get going.

gucci

Boggles wrote: »

Incorrect, traditionally Liverpool are poor after Christmas.

It isn't until usually March when they get going.

So is March before or after Christmas in terms of the football season?!

Boggles

gucci wrote: »

So is March before or after Christmas in terms of the football season?!

2+ months after Christmas.

Christmas is the 25th of December.

If I said to you I will call up with that money I owe you after Christmas and Idon't arrive til March, you'd be pretty pissed off.

Traditionally Liverpool are poor after Christmas, they kick into gear in March.

Nice try though, I see what you tried to do.

everdead.ie

Half the goals spurs have conceeded this season have been against the current top 4 and almost every team can score once against us so it's really down to how many we can score an remember we're missing our best player since august

Spiritoftheseventies

Here is link to our games from last two seasons. Uncannily we drew a lot of games around the festive period.

http://www.soccerbot.com/fa/results/ukprem09x.htm?Team=Liverpool 2008/09

http://www.soccerbot.com/fa/results/ukprem08x.htm?Team=Liverpool 2007/2008

noodler

bayviewclose wrote: »

Yes lets not forget Pool are always strong after Christmas. But just wondering what is going on with Benny. Not getting enough first team starts for a player of his quality. Would definitely be a starter for me.

Huh?

gucci wrote: »

Benny was only back from injury on Saturday, having hobbled off in the Birmingham game.

This.

bayviewclose wrote: »

Maybe so but how many games has he started this year.

Loads.