Are Banks lending?

spockety

neil_purdy wrote: »

She went through a Broker, Think EBS were the first one to approve..

She is Private Sector.. Dublin.. If im not mistaken 30kish a year??? Didnt think she would get it as she was going for it alone.. But hey.. Now i can bum in on the house!! woo!!!

30K a year will bring you home 2,102 euro a month (http://www.deloitte.ie/tc/Results.aspx)

I'm gonna presume she will do something crazy like take a 35 year term.

At 2.5% interest rates (I'm presuming she got some nice introductory rate like that) she will be paying back 893 euro a month.

At 6.5% interest rates (ECB medium term stated aim of 3.5-4.5% + bank margin of 2-3%) she will be paying back 1,510, or more than 70% of her take home pay.

Nice work!

:eek:

whizzbang

The problem with joint mortgages is that you double your chances of not being able to meet the mortgage payment if one of you falls ill or looses their job. Could you still meet the mortgage payment if that happened?

If you had mortgage that was based on a single income then you would be in a much better place to manage the rough times. If the main mortgage payer lost their job, the secondary worker could make up the short fall until you get back on your feet.

The fact that you cannot afford a livable home on one salary does not mean you are not earning enough, it just means that property is still too expensive!

moremysterious

brigadear wrote: »

Interesting advice by everyone, thanks for that. The bank in question was AIB. Just to reply to a previous comment regarding public service cuts and all that, it sounded like because I was said I worked in the public service that I am safe in my job, I do expect their to be job losses and pay cuts but because I am only there 18 months they are not likely to get rid of me, as I am a low paid earner, but who knows!!. And regards my wifes position, yes it is a cut throat industry, but they company has 4 restaurants, only 2 opened in last 6 months, if one closes she would be moved to the next, it is fairly secure compared to other restaurants, its more of a carvey, all the restaurants are based in business parks around Dublin. We cant wait another year to buy, I am 32 now, so really need to be on the property market, I guess either go with the 200k or wait a couple months.

Could you explain the bits i bold in more depth? Are there urgent personal reasons you don't want to go into, the sentence about getting on the property market sounds too much like the property ladder stuff form years ago.

jeepers101

ntlbell wrote: »

Well I read back over your post and if not trying to be insulting, I don't really understand why you brought up D15 or am I missing something?

by the right time to buy, I mean the right time for "you" not when it's a 3 page spread in the indo.

buying a house to get the country back on it's feet? what the hell are you talking about? we should all get into a lifetime of debt to help the country? really? answer the call to patriotism by an over priced home and enter a lifetime of debt YOUR COUNTRY NEEDS YOU.

Crazy talk.

I'm not for a minute suggesting that anybody should buy a house to get the economy moving, I'm simply saying that if nobody bought a house, nothing would happen. It seems to me that every time somebody posts on this forum looking for some advice (not related to should I or shouldn't I) they are inevitably told by somebody that they cannot afford what they are looking for or that they should wait a year or two. Its naive of you to think the the OP hasn't thought this through carefully already and that your crazy sums are going to change their mind.

spockety

jeepers101 wrote: »

I'm not for a minute suggesting that anybody should buy a house to get the economy moving, I'm simply saying that if nobody bought a house, nothing would happen. It seems to me that every time somebody posts on this forum looking for some advice (not related to should I or shouldn't I) they are inevitably told by somebody that they cannot afford what they are looking for or that they should wait a year or two. Its naive of you to think the the OP hasn't thought this through carefully already and that your crazy sums are going to change their mind.

At least you acknowledge that the sums are indeed crazy.

I'm still not sure people get it. Lending practices and other behaviour in the property market over the last 10 years have got Ireland into the mess it is in today.

I think although people might say, "ah yeah, it got a bit mental alright", they don't actually appreciate the full ramifications of it. The loss of money to the economy for a generation, the ghettoisation of swathes of our cities and counties. Bah, it's for another post/thread, but there is more to this than just one guy who's girlfriend managed to get approved for a 250k mortgage on 30k salary.

gurramok

jeepers101 wrote: »

I'm not for a minute suggesting that anybody should buy a house to get the economy moving, I'm simply saying that if nobody bought a house, nothing would happen. It seems to me that every time somebody posts on this forum looking for some advice (not related to should I or shouldn't I) they are inevitably told by somebody that they cannot afford what they are looking for or that they should wait a year or two. Its naive of you to think the the OP hasn't thought this through carefully already and that your crazy sums are going to change their mind.

Believe me, from experience alone on this forum nevermind from real life of the amount of people who do not understand the amount of debt they are taking on is unreal.
Alot of people never research the biggest financial decision of their lives.

misty floyd

Rent & Save.

ntlbell

jeepers101 wrote: »

I'm not for a minute suggesting that anybody should buy a house to get the economy moving, I'm simply saying that if nobody bought a house, nothing would happen. It seems to me that every time somebody posts on this forum looking for some advice (not related to should I or shouldn't I) they are inevitably told by somebody that they cannot afford what they are looking for or that they should wait a year or two. Its naive of you to think the the OP hasn't thought this through carefully already and that your crazy sums are going to change their mind.

so if a lot of people are being advised that they possibly can't afford it.

what does it tell you?

consider i'm a home owner and don't benifit directly from falling house prices (have a think about it)

is it naive to think people didn't think it through?

really? looking at the amount of people now with mortgages they can't afford, living miles from work family and friends. up to our eyes in personal debt.

do you think without amount of people in trouble it's naive to think people didn't think it through?

the ones who think it though are very much the minority.

look at what he said in his post, he was upset the bank wouldn't pile more debt on

these are not the thoughts of someone who is thinking about this rationally.

to assume they Have THOUGHT it through is terrible naive.

jeepers101

ntlbell wrote: »

so if a lot of people are being advised that they possibly can't afford it.

what does it tell you?

consider i'm a home owner and don't benifit directly from falling house prices (have a think about it)

is it naive to think people didn't think it through?

really? looking at the amount of people now with mortgages they can't afford, living miles from work family and friends. up to our eyes in personal debt.

do you think without amount of people in trouble it's naive to think people didn't think it through?

the ones who think it though are very much the minority.

look at what he said in his post, he was upset the bank wouldn't pile more debt on

these are not the thoughts of someone who is thinking about this rationally.

to assume they Have THOUGHT it through is terrible naive.

I would have to disagree. Just because some people are left with mortgages they can't afford, living miles from family, and possibly now without jobs doesn't mean they didn't think it through. It means they're not economists, they didn't have a crystal ball and they were basically lied to by the public figures they're supposed to be able to trust.

ntlbell

jeepers101 wrote: »

I would have to disagree. Just because some people are left with mortgages they can't afford, living miles from family, and possibly now without jobs doesn't mean they didn't think it through. It means they're not economists, they didn't have a crystal ball and they were basically lied to by the public figures they're supposed to be able to trust.

You don't need to be an economist to work out if you can afford something.

you don't need a crystal ball to factor in risk to the loan amount you require.

you don't need to be an economist to do your own research and not rely on "public figures"

you sit down and do the math

you look at the risk

you do your best to reduce it.

you research.

These are all elements of thinking it through.

if your idea of thinking it through is

calculate our monthly wage

and subtract a mortgage re-payment cost.

then it's no wonder people are in the mess they're in.

jeepers101

ntlbell wrote: »

You don't need to be an economist to work out if you can afford something.

you don't need a crystal ball to factor in risk to the loan amount you require.

you don't need to be an economist to do your own research and not rely on "public figures"

you sit down and do the math

you look at the risk

you do your best to reduce it.

you research.

These are all elements of thinking it through.

if your idea of thinking it through is

calculate our monthly wage

and subtract a mortgage re-payment cost.

then it's no wonder people are in the mess they're in.

I think you're really being overly harsh on the ignorance of others. Not everybody was blessed with the street smarts that you were clearly born with. People were given no reason before the property crash not to trust financial institutions that had been an integral part of society for hundreds of years. How were they to know about the profit pushing chiefs at the top. People thought they were doing their research when they went to mortgage brokers. People got bad advice. You can't blame them for that.

halkar

As their circumstances change people need houses and will buy regardless of market conditions. Not everyone buys for investment. It is a family home for most and market changes will not change this fact. No one can predict what will happen in 25-30 years. It is a risk one must take and waiting game will not get you anywhere. I do not advice anyone to buy or not to buy but I know for a fact older you get harder to get mortgage and your terms reduced with payments increase. I think the banks have age cap of max working age of 65 and few years less for the mortage terms. If you wait till 40 max amount of years you can get is 20-25.

We Irish as a nation prefer to buy rather than rent. I am one of those beleive that rent is a dead money. It is a conforting fact for me knowing that I will have my own house after I retire and something solid to leave to my loved ones after passing away. Life goes on after 65, with income reducing significantly, it will be extra few pints or holiday money saved without having to pay rent

Theboinkmaster

neil_purdy wrote: »

GF got a 250k approved and signed off on there last week.. Had a parent as guarantee.. Didnt think she would get one at all.. but happy days!!

Don't think that's something to be boasting about there mate - you're girlfriend's making the biggest financial mistake of her life

Distressing to see some people haven't learned :rolleyes:

Theboinkmaster

jeepers101 wrote: »

I think you're really being overly harsh on the ignorance of others. Not everybody was blessed with the street smarts that you were clearly born with. People were given no reason before the property crash not to trust financial institutions that had been an integral part of society for hundreds of years. How were they to know about the profit pushing chiefs at the top. People thought they were doing their research when they went to mortgage brokers. People got bad advice. You can't blame them for that.

You're wrong - you can blame them for that as they were silly to trust someone, whose earnings are entirely predicated on you making a decision in their own interest.

That's like trusing a car dealer salesman's advice on why you should by the car he's selling.

Why would you trust a newspaper article talking up the market, suggesting it's a good time to buy blah blah - when 70% of their advertising income comes from developers and estate agents - those selling to the market?! Stupidity and ignorance is why

When someone's giving you advice you always have to check whether they're biased or have anything to gain from said advice. You need objective advice - like the OECD, IMF etc were giving us since 1997.

I do blame people like that - they made their own beds, we shoudln't be forgiving ignorance, short-sightedness or greed.

Theboinkmaster

halkar wrote: »

As their circumstances change people need houses and will buy regardless of market conditions. Not everyone buys for investment. It is a family home for most and market changes will not change this fact. No one can predict what will happen in 25-30 years. It is a risk one must take and waiting game will not get you anywhere. I do not advice anyone to buy or not to buy but I know for a fact older you get harder to get mortgage and your terms reduced with payments increase. I think the banks have age cap of max working age of 65 and few years less for the mortage terms. If you wait till 40 max amount of years you can get is 20-25.

We Irish as a nation prefer to buy rather than rent. I am one of those beleive that rent is a dead money. It is a conforting fact for me knowing that I will have my own house after I retire and something solid to leave to my loved ones after passing away. Life goes on after 65, with income reducing significantly, it will be extra few pints or holiday money saved without having to pay rent

I agree with some of what you wrote but then you ruined it all - rent is not dead money in a declining market.

Buying NOW in this period of say 4/5 years of rapid decling values after the largest property boom in Irish history is probably a bad idea.

Save, wait a few years and you may end up saving €100-200k off your house. Yes you may be able to afford it now, but what is waiting just 2 years saves you €100k?!

It's been said so often but anyone who currently says rent is dead money is incorrect and he's the simple maths to show you why:

Dec 2009 - buy house for €400k and pay €1,500 per month in mortgage repayments over 30 years. Value in 2 years time is €300k. Total cost pm:

Mortgage €1,500
Depreciation €4,166

Total cost €5,666

Dec 2009 - rent for next 5 years, total cost pm:

Rent €1,500

Total saved pm €4,166

And then you buy your house in Dec 2011 for €300k which a significantly reduced mortgage - gettit

ntlbell

jeepers101 wrote: »

I think you're really being overly harsh on the ignorance of others. Not everybody was blessed with the street smarts that you were clearly born with. People were given no reason before the property crash not to trust financial institutions that had been an integral part of society for hundreds of years. How were they to know about the profit pushing chiefs at the top. People thought they were doing their research when they went to mortgage brokers. People got bad advice. You can't blame them for that.

Overly harsh by suggesting you don't have to be an economist, yes how overly critical of me.

If I wasn't being harsh I have to assume these people had some amount however small of common sense.

If someone makes money based on an amount of money you borrow does this not spark some form of caution?

You don't go to a cars salesman to ask him to figure out how much of a loan you should borrow for a car, why?

if you did, what do you think his objective would be?

YOU work out what you can comfortable afford, YOU do the math, YOU tell the mortgage broker how much YOU need, HE tries to get the best deal for that amount.

Most people go and push him to get as much as he can, some hand over false payslips to get more, some borrow from credit unions, friends and family to "pretend" they have a deposit.

Overly harsh?

I thought I was too kind.

ntlbell

halkar wrote: »

As their circumstances change people need houses and will buy regardless of market conditions. Not everyone buys for investment. It is a family home for most and market changes will not change this fact. No one can predict what will happen in 25-30 years. It is a risk one must take and waiting game will not get you anywhere. I do not advice anyone to buy or not to buy but I know for a fact older you get harder to get mortgage and your terms reduced with payments increase. I think the banks have age cap of max working age of 65 and few years less for the mortage terms. If you wait till 40 max amount of years you can get is 20-25.

We Irish as a nation prefer to buy rather than rent. I am one of those beleive that rent is a dead money. It is a conforting fact for me knowing that I will have my own house after I retire and something solid to leave to my loved ones after passing away. Life goes on after 65, with income reducing significantly, it will be extra few pints or holiday money saved without having to pay rent

or you could buy at 40 assuming one started working at 23, could have 17 years savings as a down payment? and not needing near the amount of years and pay a lot less in interest payments.

if rent is dead money, what is interest payment's over 25/30 years?

just about every single service we use is dead money, but people only get upset because they feel like they're paying someone else's mortgage, when in fact they do the same with EVERY service you use, your paying someone's mortgage somewhere a long the line.

I'm not suggesting people shouldn't buy, or that you're right or wrong, there's just many different ways and a lot of your reasons FOR just don't make a lot of sense

jackthekipper

halkar wrote: »

I am one of those beleive that rent is a dead money. It is a conforting fact for me knowing that I will have my own house after I retire and something solid to leave to my loved ones after passing away. Life goes on after 65, with income reducing significantly, it will be extra few pints or holiday money saved without having to pay rent

Have people learned anything? Read some of the old threads on the subject Renting for very long periods of time can be dead money but to flat out say rent is dead money is ridiculous, as someone said so is interest. It's good to buy but not to rush in on the back of some financially ignorant dogma.

halkar

jackthekipper wrote: »

Have people learned anything? Read some of the old threads on the subject Renting for very long periods of time can be dead money but to flat out say rent is dead money is ridiculous, as someone said so is interest. It's good to buy but not to rush in on the back of some financially ignorant dogma.

Regardless of what other posts says that is my own opinion. I have been through this around late 90s and early 2000 while house prices were on the rise. I was waiting while people had the very same discussions about house prices. I waited a while and bought at year 2000 which I thought it was expensive at the time. But we needed to buy with kids growing and needed room. My own mortgage will finish when I reach 50 and possibly earlier with increased payments during low interest times. How much rent would I be paying for rest of my life to age of 70s, 80s, 90s and maybe 100s?

I am not disputing the ridiculous property prices at the moment. And they will fall. How can one with family save for house while paying rent around and over 1000€ for a 3 bed semi is beyond me.

If it was easy to save, people would not be borrowing for cars and what not. You buy a car for 20k, pay 30k by the time you finish the loan on it. Sell or trade in the car for 5k loosing 25k. Repeat that 5 times similiar to 25 year mortgage. Now that is a total waste imao.

But that's life. Some like to live today worry tomorrow and some like to wait today and possibly never see the day

Back to topic, yes banks are lending. Criterias changed and approvals are not easy but I still see people getting mortgages.

denhamd2

Agree with the last post saying how difficult it is to save while still renting. Looking to get together a deposit myself at the moment. Just a quick question... myself and my wife have a combined 5 loan (half way through now) with about 15k left. Do banks do consolidated mortgages any more? Our joint income is around 68k and I think we'd comfortably be able to repay but my only fear is that this would count against our mortgage application. I understand our borrowing power would be decreased by it but say we wanted to borrow 250k for example do you think we'd have a chance of being approved?

Thanks in advance

Steven811

This may be dead in the water, but does anybody know and banks lending openly at the moment. Already tried AIB, what can I say, they weren't having me.

nemo32

Steven811 wrote: »

This may be dead in the water, but does anybody know and banks lending openly at the moment. Already tried AIB, what can I say, they weren't having me.

AIB approved me on Monday and they were the only bank open to approving me, they have the best LTV and rates at the mo so I would suggest not going to any other bank right now but ask AIB why they didnt approve you this time and work on the solution

dufferlover

Got approval very recently too from AIB. In fact they were the only ones that would entertain us. Got turned down by all the rest of them.

Learpholl

Got approval from both AIB & BOI recently so they're both still lending anyway but obviously their criteria is a lot different to before.

Spiritofthekop

Learpholl wrote: »

Got approval from both AIB & BOI recently so they're both still lending anyway but obviously their criteria is a lot different to before.

Yeah they are offering very little, you would not hear of many loans being over 250,00/300,000 tops

Learpholl

Spiritofthekop wrote: »

Yeah they are offering very little, you would not hear of many loans being over 250,00/300,000 tops

Not sure on that one. I was approved for 330k from AIB & 285k from BOI so they're in around the figures mentioned. However, myself and the other half aren't on big money or anything so I'd assumed that if there was someone earning a lot more then they'd be offered a lot more.

CricketDude

halkar wrote: »

Regardless of what other posts says that is my own opinion. I have been through this around late 90s and early 2000 while house prices were on the rise. I was waiting while people had the very same discussions about house prices. I waited a while and bought at year 2000 which I thought it was expensive at the time. But we needed to buy with kids growing and needed room. My own mortgage will finish when I reach 50 and possibly earlier with increased payments during low interest times. How much rent would I be paying for rest of my life to age of 70s, 80s, 90s and maybe 100s?

I am not disputing the ridiculous property prices at the moment. And they will fall. How can one with family save for house while paying rent around and over 1000€ for a 3 bed semi is beyond me.

If it was easy to save, people would not be borrowing for cars and what not. You buy a car for 20k, pay 30k by the time you finish the loan on it. Sell or trade in the car for 5k loosing 25k. Repeat that 5 times similiar to 25 year mortgage. Now that is a total waste imao.

But that's life. Some like to live today worry tomorrow and some like to wait today and possibly never see the day

Back to topic, yes banks are lending. Criterias changed and approvals are not easy but I still see people getting mortgages.

You are right.
There is a lot to be said for having your mortgage paid off.
We bought our house in 1998 and had the mortgage paid off in 2009, even though it was a 30 year mortgage to begin with. Life is so much easier now without rent or mortgage payments. I wouldnt have it any other way.

wexford12

I see the very first post in this is back in 2009 one couple had earnings of 21k and 25k and they were offered 200k I wonder what would the offer would be today from banks

HerbSimpson

Interesting looking back on this thread, really shows the people who were talking sense and those who were not !

smoothseany

nemo32 wrote: »

AIB approved me on Monday and they were the only bank open to approving me, they have the best LTV and rates at the mo so I would suggest not going to any other bank right now but ask AIB why they didnt approve you this time and work on the solution

@nemo32, after you sent in the application to aib, how long did it take for aib 2 get back to you, I have just sent in my application on Friday, just wondering will i here back this week or will it take longer...