New Nissan Pixo

Mailman · 22-11-2009 10:05pm

EPM wrote: »

They won't have a customer base if they try forcing things on the people that keep them in business

Exactly my point.

andrewdeerpark · 23-11-2009 12:40am

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

They're 15" tyres FFS! They cost 60 quid a corner to replace!

What planet are you on the average replacement cost in this class is 35 euros. This is the supermini class.. or maybe you are going to Advance Pitstop. The market is flooded with cheap Chinese tyres in this segment the Micra does not support these cheap tyres I would consider 60euro dear in this class.

Plus the current Micra has a host of niggly electrical problems; ala Renault.

whycliff wrote: »

Regarding the Tiida, its was launched in America few years and is called the Nissan Versa. It was never meant for the Irish market initially and Ireland was one of the first European countries to bring it into Europe due to the popularity of the Almera in Ireland and as a replacement of sorts for it.

It was developed for the North American and Canadian Market.
It was never developed for Europe as a competitor for the Golf or Focus where they sell in big numbers.

The Nissan Qashqai currently outsells the Golf and Focus in Ireland.
The Tiida doenst have to compete with them in that case, Nissan Already had one that beats them.

The TIDA, from america; I rest my case. America cannot make cars and a cheap financial decision was made at boardroom level to introduce this substandard car to Ireland, this devalued the Nissan marque beyond repair in the last few years. Accountants are not engineers or designers and they make terrible cars.

whycliff wrote: »

The Nissan Qashqai currently outsells the Golf and Focus in Ireland.
The Tiida doenst have to compete with them in that case, Nissan Already had one that beats them.

The Qashqai competes against the VW Tiguan, Ford Kuga not the Golf, Focus Nissan through pricing have tried to move the goal posts on that argument.

The primera; saw Top Gear tonight and the piss take of the battery car proves beyond doubt that Nissan developing this battery car took their eye off the ball. No excuse for its overdue replacement.

NLane wrote: »

agreed... in fact i reckon the current nissan line-up is prob the ugliest of all those on the irish market at the mo! never been the biggest nissan fan myself, but their latest offerings really take the mickey!

Bang on statement NLane.

Remember a bad car purchase you generally have to live with for a couple of years so please consider your sanity when buying a Nissan (except Quashqai).

zilog_jones · 23-11-2009 1:04am

andrewdeerpark wrote: »

The TIDA, from america; I rest my case. America cannot make cars and a cheap financial decision was made at boardroom level to introduce this substandard car to Ireland, this devalued the Nissan marque beyond repair in the last few years.

Well you're out of luck with your America bashing because as I've already said this "substandard car" is about as American as miso soup (and as bland as tofu).

JHMEG · 23-11-2009 1:14am

andrewdeerpark wrote: »

America cannot make cars

Quite the opposite. America can make cars which are quicker than the GTR on the 'ring. In addition the two biggest selling cars in America, the Camry and the Accord, are very successfully made in America.

Lord Trollington · 23-11-2009 1:14am

andrewdeerpark wrote: »

The Qashqai competes against the VW Tiguan, Ford Kuga not the Golf, Focus Nissan through pricing have tried to move the goal posts on that argument.

Ha ha ha ha ha, priceless. There is some things money can't buy i tell ya.

Lord Trollington · 23-11-2009 1:18am

andrewdeerpark wrote: »

The TIDA, from america; I rest my case. America cannot make cars and a cheap financial decision was made at boardroom level to introduce this substandard car to Ireland.

Its not "from" america, it is sold in America.

high horse · 23-11-2009 1:20am

andrewdeerpark wrote: »

What planet are you on the average replacement cost in this class is 35 euros. This is the supermini class.. or maybe you are going to Advance Pitstop. The market is flooded with cheap Chinese tyres in this segment the Micra does not support these cheap tyres I would consider 60euro dear in this class.

I can only see it as a good thing if one of the most popular cars on the road can't take those cheap crappy tires

This thread has gone ridiculous though...

Drummerboy08 · 23-11-2009 10:29am

Mailman wrote: »

You should see how pissed off my German Colleagues have been when they got Chevys in Dublin Airport.

Maybe they should specify what car they want. Its possible, and I know it is.

I know this well. Fleet managers can't take a back-hander from the distributor on Primeras or Sonatas and force them upon Leasees when the Customer wants a Black Passat TDi with Chrome.

Your mixing up rental companies with fleet companies. Again, I should know, I work in one.

The customer specifies what car he/she would like, and we price him on it. It has nothing to do with "backhanders" from the distributors. Simple.

Actually the i10 was a hit from day one in the UK and month by month you can see it in the UK top ten best selling vehicles. It took a few months to get stocks in but once supply came on stream they sold like hotcakes. The PIXO has been on sale long enough for it to have been proved a hit or miss. It's a miss.

I dont give a toss about the UK market. Why would I? The Irish market (yes, where I work) is what I worry about. The car only went out to the dealers in the last two weeks, and we're in the last 5 weeks of the year. We wont know until the middle of next year.

No, that's the thing. I have experience of a 60bhp engine in the Panda, a 63bhp engine in a Mini and around the same in Micras and Yarises.
None of them prepared me for the complete absence of torque in the PIXO.

A heavier car, with less bhp than the Pixo feels faster?

andrewdeerpark wrote: »

What planet are you on the average replacement cost in this class is 35 euros. This is the supermini class.. or maybe you are going to Advance Pitstop. The market is flooded with cheap Chinese tyres in this segment the Micra does not support these cheap tyres I would consider 60euro dear in this class.

A Budget tyre (Minerva, me neither) is €63. A Pirelli is €75. These prices are discounted based on the fact that we spend upwards of €20,000 per year on tyres with the same distributor. Can you buy these tyres cheaper? I seriously doubt it. Based on a 175 65 15 H (1.2 SVE Micra).

EPM · 23-11-2009 10:38am

Mailman wrote: »

Exactly my point.

No, my point was leasing companies. Like DB said, you seem to be mixing up lease with hire co's

alias no.9 · 23-11-2009 10:58am

Oh dear, what a thread. The best advice to the OP is to get his sister to test drive the Pixo and decide if she's happy with it but also to test drive some competitors as a comparrison and see what other dealers are prepared to do on price, I think we've established that Nissan are unlikely to have much room to manouver.

As for the side arguments...
The Tiida was always meant to be a cheap car, it was primarlilly intended for emerging markets. I've read stories of one of the senior management guys at Nissan visiting the Dacia plant in Romania (both part of the extended Renault family) and been shown how the near vertical sides of the Dacia Logan meant they could stack more door assemblies on a single pallet, saving manufacturing costs. He was supposedly disappointed that such techniques were not followed with the Tiida, he had been told it wasn't possible.

On the K12 Micra front, my wife has one and apart from needing the microswitch in the ignition replaced on the morning of her driving test, it hasn't missed a beat in nearly 2 years. It's also an ok drive for a car of that size with a 1.0 engine.

Finally

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

A heavier car, with less bhp than the Pixo feels faster?

It might sound counterintuative but an 8v 4 cylinder car will have much more low down torque than a 12v 3 cylinder so it will be a lot more drivable. The Pixo might have more power but you'll need to thrash it to use it because it will be much higher in the rev band.

Drummerboy08 · 23-11-2009 11:13am

alias no.9 wrote: »

It might sound counterintuative but an 8v 4 cylinder car will have much more low down torque than a 12v 3 cylinder so it will be a lot more drivable. The Pixo might have more power but you'll need to thrash it to use it because it will be much higher in the rev band.

Yes but my point is, anyone who buys this type of car isnt worried about Torque, and bhp, and 0-60 times. They're worried about cost to run, cost to purchase, space, how easy it is to park etc.

Mailman · 23-11-2009 12:22pm

EPM wrote: »

No, my point was leasing companies. Like DB said, you seem to be mixing up lease with hire co's

I understand the difference and I've been around this forum long enough to know who works in the trade here.

Mailman · 23-11-2009 12:32pm

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Yes but my point is, anyone who buys this type of car isnt worried about Torque, and bhp, and 0-60 times. They're worried about cost to run, cost to purchase, space, how easy it is to park etc.

While torque may not be a primary concern for a sub supermini purchaser when there isn't enough torque to pull away from parked on an incline then it becomes an issue; it is that lacking in torque.

Drummerboy08 · 23-11-2009 12:37pm

Mailman wrote: »

I understand the difference and I've been around this forum long enough to know who works in the trade here.

In that case, you should know what your talking is sh1te. And If your around this forum long enough, you should know that most of us who are in the trade are fairly neutral.

Mailman wrote: »

While torque may not be a primary concern for a sub supermini purchaser when there isn't enough torque to pull away from parked on an incline then it becomes an issue; it is that lacking in torque.

Are you sure you were not doing your hill starts properly? I havent had this problem in it, and the ramp into the warehouse here is as steep as any hill i've encountered.

Mailman · 23-11-2009 12:54pm

Just found the torque figures for the PIXO
90NM at 3500
FIAT 1108cc FIRE
88NM at 2750.
FIAT 1242cc FIRE in my car
102NM at 2500

So, I wasn't imagining it. My Panda has significantly more torque than the PIXO and you don't have to rev the guts out of the Engine to get at it.

In the real world you have to rev the guts out of a PIXO to make progress and when you rev the guts out of it the sound it produces is displeasing.

alias no.9 · 23-11-2009 12:57pm

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Yes but my point is, anyone who buys this type of car isnt worried about Torque, and bhp, and 0-60 times. They're worried about cost to run, cost to purchase, space, how easy it is to park etc.

I wouldn't argue with that but the specific point you made, that I addressed, was the apparent contradiction

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

A heavier car, with less bhp than the Pixo feels faster?

and I am simply pointing out that it may be perfectly reasonable that as you put it, a heavier car with less bhp, does indeed feel faster.
Using your own analysis of consumers in this segment of the market, they'll never use the part of the rev band where the extra BHP are to be found in the Pixo or any car with a multivalve engine. They won't care much for any of this but that's not to say they wouldn't notice a difference when driving both, even if they couldn't describe or quantify that difference.

Drummerboy08 · 23-11-2009 1:01pm

alias no.9 wrote: »

and I am simply pointing out that it may be perfectly reasonable that as you put it, a heavier car with less bhp, does indeed feel faster.
Using your own analysis of consumers in this segment of the market, they'll never use the part of the rev band where the extra BHP are to be found in the Pixo or any car with a multivalve engine. They won't care much for any of this but that's not to say they wouldn't notice a difference when driving both, even if they couldn't describe or quantify that difference.

So if the potential customer wont notice the difference between, say, the Panda, and the Pixo, why would they spend the extra €2000 or more on the Panda? Thats my point.

The kind of people who will buy the Pixo dont care about how it drives, or how fast it is. All they worry about is how cheap it is, how easy it is to park etc.

That was what I was trying to get at originally, but maybe I didnt go about it the right way....

Mailman · 23-11-2009 1:14pm

You don't think buyers of these small cars are either knowledgable or discerning.
I noticed the lack of useable power on the car within half a mile of the airport and according to you I talk ****e and don't know how to drive a car so if I noticed it I don't see the Pixo winningany other customers even on a short test drive.
Panda isn't 2K more expensive. Picanto is same price. KA is near the same price as Panda and is a great drive.

Lord Trollington · 23-11-2009 1:15pm

Mailman wrote: »

Just found the torque figures for the PIXO
90NM at 3500
FIAT 1108cc FIRE
88NM at 2750.
FIAT 1242cc FIRE in my car
102NM at 2500

So, I wasn't imagining it. My Panda has significantly more torque than the PIXO and you don't have to rev the guts out of the Engine to get at it.

In the real world you have to rev the guts out of a PIXO to make progress and when you rev the guts out of it the sound it produces is displeasing.

You're imagining your figures though.
You failed to mention that the Pixo is 966cc.
Its is Also 90NM at 3400rpm.

Lord Trollington · 23-11-2009 1:21pm

Mailman wrote: »

You don't think buyers of these small cars are either knowledgable or discerning.
I noticed the lack of useable power on the car within half a mile of the airport and according to you I talk ****e and don't know how to drive a car so if I noticed it I don't see the Pixo winningany other customers even on a short test drive.
Panda isn't 2K more expensive. Picanto is same price. KA is near the same price as Panda and is a great drive.

Ford Ka is only available in 3Dr. Different buying needs. The Panda is €1,500 -€2,000 more expensive depending on dealer charges.
I'm sure when the customer goes to test drive the PIXO they sit into with the intention to see what the can get out of it.
Its about practicality and affordabilty when it comes to these cars.

Drummerboy08 · 23-11-2009 1:22pm

Mailman wrote: »

You don't think buyers of these small cars are either knowledgable or discerning.
I noticed the lack of useable power on the car within half a mile of the airport and according to you I talk ****e and don't know how to drive a car so if I noticed it I don't see the Pixo winningany other customers even on a short test drive.
Panda isn't 2K more expensive. Picanto is same price. KA is near the same price as Panda and is a great drive.

Ok. I happen to work for one of Ireland's largest Nissan dealers, but I must not know what I'm talking about.

I'm off out to entice oul ones into a new Micra in exchange for all their life savings.

Mailman · 23-11-2009 1:40pm

I'd suggest that buyers of cars in this class are the most discerning in the market.
Chrome tailpipes, crease lines on the doors and fairy lights don't wow them. Brand name snobbery doesn't come in to it.
All they care about is how good is the car, does it suit their needs and is it good value. They're the type of people who aren't trading in every other year and are just as happy to keep their old car unless they have a compelling reason to buy.
The PIXO is only adequate. The i10 with the new 1.2 litre engine is top of class and the Aygo/C1/107 and Panda are right behind it.

Mailman · 23-11-2009 1:44pm

whycliff wrote: »

You're imagining your figures though.
You failed to mention that the Pixo is 966cc.
Its is Also 90NM at 3400rpm.

figures courtesy of topgear UK website and CC is irrelvant now that you are not taxed according to it.

pixo figures from http://autos.maxabout.com/cvid0000985/nissan-pixo-visia.aspx

Mailman · 23-11-2009 1:46pm

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

I'm off out to entice oul ones into a new Micra in exchange for all their life savings.

If it were a K11 then you'd be doing them a favour.

Lord Trollington · 23-11-2009 1:55pm

Mailman wrote: »

figures courtesy of topgear UK website and CC is irrelvant now that you are not taxed according to it.

Anything that happens on the top gear show, or on theTop Gear UK website is not relevent to the Irish Market.

Its becoming clear now, you watch top gear every Sunday afternoon which makes you knowledgeable in the Irish Market.

How is the cubic capacity of the engine not relevent when your talking about the Panda which you percieve to be a much better car is 1104cc?

Mailman · 23-11-2009 1:58pm

whycliff wrote: »

Anything that happens on the top gear show, or on theTop Gear UK website is not relevent to the Irish Market.

Its becoming clear now, you watch top gear every Sunday afternoon which makes you knowledgeable in the Irish Market.

see my updated post regarding source.

Mailman · 23-11-2009 2:00pm

whycliff wrote: »

Anything that happens on the top gear show, or on theTop Gear UK website is not relevent to the Irish Market.

Its becoming clear now, you watch top gear every Sunday afternoon which makes you knowledgeable in the Irish Market.

How is the cubic capacity of the engine not relevent when your talking about the Panda which you percieve to be a much better car is 1104cc?

Since you are a pedantic troll, I'll reply in kind - 1108cc not 1104cc and 4cc doesn't count when you aren't been taxed for it for whereas 100RPM is a significant amount when your ears are bleeding.

alias no.9 · 23-11-2009 2:14pm

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

So if the potential customer wont notice the difference between, say, the Panda, and the Pixo, why would they spend the extra €2000 or more on the Panda? Thats my point.

The kind of people who will buy the Pixo dont care about how it drives, or how fast it is. All they worry about is how cheap it is, how easy it is to park etc.

That was what I was trying to get at originally, but maybe I didnt go about it the right way....

Fair enough. I don't really care what car the OP's sister buys, my only advice for her was to test drive and negotiate the best price for a number of cars to give her a choice.

Lord Trollington · 23-11-2009 2:15pm

alias no.9 wrote: »

Fair enough. I don't really care what car the OP's sister buys, my only advice for her was to test drive and negotiate the best price for a number of cars to give her a choice.

Thats the best post in the thread and sound advice.

Anan1 · 23-11-2009 2:16pm

alias no.9 wrote: »

Oh dear, what a thread. The best advice to the OP is to get his sister to test drive the Pixo and decide if she's happy with it but also to test drive some competitors as a comparrison and see what other dealers are prepared to do on price, I think we've established that Nissan are unlikely to have much room to manouver.

That's good advice, and on that note we'll put this to bed.

New Nissan Pixo

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