Michael O'Leary: I'd cut 20 billion

OMD

Mystik Monkey wrote: »

and what are you basing that assumption on?

MysticMonkey. Nurses get a basic pay for a 37.5 hour week. They then earn extra for working Saturdays or Sundays, they get extra if they work between 6 and 8pm at night. They get extra pay for qualifications and even extra for 2 qualifications. They can get a load of other allowances for various different things depending the particular job they are doing.

I counted just one of these allowances, the Sunday payment. Liam Doran is constantly in the media saying how hard nurses work, providing a service 24 hours a day 7 days a week. The INO is part of an organisation called 24/7 alliance. I hope the next time you hear Liam Doran saying this that you respond by saying " Rubbish Liam, the average nurse does not work weekends". Perhaps you should also add "Liam nurses don't work evenings".


Can I put it another way to you. You quoted the basic pay as being true nurse pay. What % of nurses do you believe earn the basic rate of pay and no more.

Dr Galen

irish_bob wrote: »

1st of all , they knew that the job entailed when they signed up , secondly , are those challenges any different to what nurses in the uk or germany face , no , the only difference is irish nurses earn at least 30% more

irish_bob wrote: »

nurses have a uniquely special place in most irish peoples hearts , they are the most sacred of sacred cows , i believe this could be in many ways due to the fact that traditionally a large number of irish women beit when they went abroad or stayed at home , became nurses , therefore to criticise a nurse is to badmouth your own mother or grandmother


ps , my mother is a retired nurse

you have a point here, and I say this as a nurse, married to a nurse, and coming from a family of nurses (so beat that with your granny )

I knew exactly what I was getting into. I don't expect nor want anything extra because of the sick babies or the caring for the dying aspect of the job. In my mind, and this is not to put down the original post, focussing on this aspect of the job does not adequately highlight what nurses do from day to day. The romantic notion of nurses as Florence Nightingale types makes my blood boil, especially nowadays when we have nurse prescribing, nurse led/run clinics and large numbers of specialised nurses in specific and worthwhile clincal areas

/ OT rant

OMD

irish_bob wrote: »

sense or reason is rarely present in the equation when it comes to discussing nurses pay in ireland , if the average nurse earned 100k instead of 50 k per year , the majority if people would still say , they are worth every penny

nurses have a uniquely special place in most irish peoples hearts , they are the most sacred of sacred cows , i believe this could be in many ways due to the fact that traditionally a large number of irish women beit when they went abroad or stayed at home , became nurses , therefore to criticise a nurse is to badmouth your own mother or grandmother


ps , my mother is a retired nurse

I agree with you IrishBob. I think there are 2 main reasons for this.
1. nurses used to have poor pay and conditions. This has changed dramatically in last 15 years. They had poor career prospects. Basically you were either a staff nurse, a ward sister or a matron with very few other options. That has changed dramatically again in the last few years. Any determined career wise nurse can expect to get promoted at least once.
2. UK nurses still do not have great pay.

Blazer

ConsiderThis wrote: »

I am not sure I agree wit you. The problem is not that our public finances are in a complete mess (they are), the problem is that we keep voting in politicians who are unable to do anything other than take decisions which lead to this mess again and again and we, the electorate, seem to learn nothing.

There is no reason that if we fix the finances now, that this will not happen again in x years time.

What does that say about us as a country?

It says that we're fúckin morons who never learn.
Regardless of who you vote for all politicians are the same.
They only care about themselves and their constituents.
If anything I'd get away from this brand of government.
The less people are dependend on their local policitians the sooner we can demand a proper led government.
No more days of voting the local FF in because he filled in a pothole in the road etc...
No more regional voting...make it countrywide so there's no fiddling with numbers etc.

irish_bob

OMD wrote: »

I agree with you IrishBob. I think there are 2 main reasons for this.
1. nurses used to have poor pay and conditions. This has changed dramatically in last 15 years. They had poor career prospects. Basically you were either a staff nurse, a ward sister or a matron with very few other options. That has changed dramatically again in the last few years. Any determined career wise nurse can expect to get promoted at least once.
2. UK nurses still do not have great pay.

1. , its only one opinion but my mother was a nurse from 1968 to about 1980 and she says she was well paid , she retired soon after getting married and is 61 now

2. i have a cousin in wales who is a male nurse since 1986 , he is several steps up the NHS system , this year he will earn 33 thousand sterling which is only a few grand more than an irish nurse starts off on excluding overtime , he is flabergasted at what nurses in ireland earn , its not as if ireland is a richer country than the uk afterall

irish_bob

Berkut wrote: »

It says that we're fúckin morons who never learn.
Regardless of who you vote for all politicians are the same.
They only care about themselves and their constituents.
If anything I'd get away from this brand of government.
The less people are dependend on their local policitians the sooner we can demand a proper led government.
No more days of voting the local FF in because he filled in a pothole in the road etc...
No more regional voting...make it countrywide so there's no fiddling with numbers etc.

we,ve only ever had fianna fail led or fine gael coaltion with labour goverments so the chances of descisive rule was never great , fianna fail with thier inherent populism are incapable of not trying to please everyone and the coaltion of labour and fine gael with two opposing idealogys means compromise in too many areas , consensus politics like we,ve mostly had in the past wont get us out of the mire we are in right now , thats why we need a fine gael goverment without the ball and chain that is labour

Ostrom

ntlbell wrote: »

I don't think Dev or o learly were having a go, seems like o leary was reffering to our over paid underworked educational staff

For what its worth, I work on contract, along with a signficant proportion (up to 50%+ in some departments) at a third level institution. Those of us on fixed term contracts have been denied union membership consistently over the past few years. Senior management has issued warnings to all contract staff to come to work tomorrow or be found in breach of contract. Our wages (well mine anway - fortunately not this year) place me below average industrial, and last year (according to CSO) at risk of poverty.

None of us are supporting tomorrows strike (speaking only for our department, there are vast difference across uni's and departments - DCU voted against strike action tomorrow), and a small number of tenured staff are breaking picket tomorrow to teach. I really hope the debate remains at the level of senior-junior inequality. In our uni over the past five years, four senior admin positions have been created that amount to just under 1 million in yearly wages.

Unfortunately the union side sticks, and this time wednesday, the public will likely call for our blood. The cuts will come from mid level teaching, tutorials, contact hours, and small group teaching - not senior pay. Without the right to collective action, there isnt much we can do, so just putting it out there.

Dozen Wicked Words

irish_bob wrote: »

1. , its only one opinion but my mother was a nurse from 1968 to about 1980 and she says she was well paid , she retired soon after getting married and is 61 now

2. i have a cousin in wales who is a male nurse since 1986 , he is several steps up the NHS system , this year he will earn 33 thousand sterling which is only a few grand more than an irish nurse starts off on excluding overtime , he is flabergasted at what nurses in ireland earn , its not as if ireland is a richer country than the uk afterall

1. The job your mother was expected to do is not what is expected of nurses today. Your mothers opinion of her wage is admirable.

2. If you asked your cousin (loving you say Male nurse since 1986, was he a female nurse pre '86?) does he think the wage the NHS pays him is fair for the years he has put in, the education he has undergone, he would probably say no.

Regardless of your opinion that ALL nurses in Ireland in the Private and Public sector are overpaid, after working for half my career in the NHS, most people I worked with feel undervalued by the Health Service in Britain.

Blazer

irish_bob wrote: »

we,ve only ever had fianna fail led or fine gael coaltion with labour goverments so the chances of descisive rule was never great , fianna fail with thier inherent populism are incapable of not trying to please everyone and the coaltion of labour and fine gael with two opposing idealogys means compromise in too many areas , consensus politics like we,ve mostly had in the past wont get us out of the mire we are in right now , thats why we need a fine gael goverment without the ball and chain that is labour

Fine Gael...are you mad?
Enda's a bloody joke of a politician and tbh I couldn't see him making any of the necessary cuts to save us..

jimmmy

dooferoaks wrote: »

most people I worked with feel undervalued by the Health Service in Britain.

When they hear about the greater amounts of money that the Irish taxpayer is throwing at the health service here, no wonder some of them may feel a bit undervalued in Britain ! lol

Its human nature to feel a bit undervalued....most people around the world would like to earn a bit more than they do. Its human nature / greed, whatever you want to call it. Look at our greedy public servants ; nobody can find a public service anywhere in the world where they are paid more, and yet they are striking tomorrow ! Incredible.

Seth Brundle

Berkut wrote: »

Fine Gael...are you mad?
Enda's a bloody joke of a politician and tbh I couldn't see him making any of the necessary cuts to save us..

yeah - lets keep Biffo, at least he isn't a joke!

KindOfIrish

zootroid wrote: »

But when it comes to Ryanair, the only interests he serves is that of the shareholders, and there's nothing wrong with that.

He serves the interest of all Irish and European people by giving an opportunity to travel for incredibly low prices (i bought return flight Shannon - Stansted for 12 euro). Especially it's important for those on low income. Thank you very much, Mr. O'Leary.

F..k Irish Rail for 50euro ticket from Limerick to Dublin:mad:

jimmmy

KindOfIrish wrote: »

He serves the interest of all Irish and European people by giving an opportunity to travel for incredibly low prices (i bought return flight Shannon - Stansted for 12 euro). Especially it's important for those on low income. Thank you very much, Mr. O'Leary.

F..k Irish Rail for 50euro ticket from Limerick to Dublin:mad:

Plus the Irish govt does not subsidise Ryanair - it does CIE. Like him or loath him, O'Leary has been proved right many times in his attitudes to the unions + their economics.

Riskymove

jimmmy wrote: »

Plus the Irish govt does not subsidise Ryanair

yes it does

jimmmy

Riskymove wrote: »

yes it does

on an overall basis, Ryanair has paid hundreds of millions of euro of taxes to the Irish govt, has it not? Not to mention making it affordable for millions of tourists to vist here over the years ? And even O'Leary himself chooses to reside + pay his taxes in Ireland. Every public servant in the country can thank Michael O'Leary for all the taxes he has paid to the govt, and the employment he has created, and for the prestige of giving Ireland one big success home-grown business story of the last few decades. :rolleyes:

Riskymove

jimmmy wrote: »

on an overall basis, Ryanair has paid hundreds of millions of euro of taxes to the Irish govt, has it not?

yes

Not to mention making it affordable for millions of tourists to vist here over the years ?

yes

And even O'Leary himself chooses to reside + pay his taxes in Ireland.

indeed

Every public servant in the country can thank Michael O'Leary for all the taxes he has paid to the govt, and the employment he has created, and for the prestige of giving Ireland one big success home-grown business story of the last few decades. :rolleyes:

Oh thank you Mick, from the bottom of my heart



Now a question for you jimmmy

what has any of that got to do with my quote?

Dr Galen

the folk-heroism of Michael O'Leary continues it seems.

there have been many other Irish success stories over the past few decades Jimmmy, why not form a cabinet from all the CEO's of those companies too?

jimmmy

Riskymove wrote: »

what has any of that got to do with my quote?

You said " yes it does " in reply to my post " Plus the Irish govt does not subsidise Ryanair - it does CIE. "

jimmmy

Mystik Monkey wrote: »

the folk-heroism of Michael O'Leary continues it seems.

there have been many other Irish success stories over the past few decades Jimmmy,

Indeed, but not too many have created a similar size business / grown it from humble beginnings...who would have thought a few decades ago that Michael O'Leary would have grown Ryanair to the size it is today ( does it not carry more passengers than any other airline in the world now ? )
Ask any European to name an Irish business + they will smile + say " Ryanair".

Mystik Monkey wrote: »

why not form a cabinet from all the CEO's of those companies too?

Interestingly another CEO was asked for his advice in the article in yesterdays paper alongside Michael O'L ....
The system we have in this country is that elected people make the decisions. That is why a cabinet could not be formed from a few CEO's.
However, it is interesting to see the opinions of Irelands top business people

_Kooli_

Jimmmy, you do realize, i hope, that the first thing MOL would do would be to reduce the dole.

jimmmy

_Kooli_ wrote: »

Jimmmy, you do realize, i hope, that the first thing MOL would do would be to reduce the dole.

I would hope he does. I have always argued that it should be cut. It is nearly three times that in N. Ireland, and forces firms here ( along with our minimum wage ) to have to pay more to workers, + hence increased prices here.

P. Breathnach

This really is an extraordinary thread. O'Leary did not expect what he said to be taken seriously. His figures mean nothing (you can't save €20bn by eliminating 20% of the civil, or even the public, service). He saw a platform for promoting a Ryanair agenda and he used it. That's all.

It takes a degree of idiocy to treat it as a serious prescription.

Dr Galen

jimmmy wrote: »

Indeed, but not too many have created a similar size business / grown it from humble beginnings...who would have thought a few decades ago that Michael O'Leary would have grown Ryanair to the size it is today ( does it not carry more passengers than any other airline in the world now ? )
Ask any European to name an Irish business + they will smile + say " Ryanair".


Interestingly another CEO was asked for his advice in the article in yesterdays paper alongside Michael O'L ....
The system we have in this country is that elected people make the decisions. That is why a cabinet could not be formed from a few CEO's.
However, it is interesting to see the opinions of Irelands top business people

i'm not going to get into a discussion on the rights and wrongs of Ryanair Jimmmy. I'd agree though, that no one could really have predicted it's growth from it's humble beginnings, and for that O'Leary deserves praise indeed. Bear in mind though that the passenger number figure is not the be all and end all of the airline industry, yields per seat and fare prices are an important factor that contributes to overall success.

As for your second point, please, don't try the patronising tone malarky. It may rile others here, but not me. I'm well aware that this thread is nothing more than a thought experiment, a what-if kinda thing. Which is why I suggested not only having Micko as an advisor/cabinet member but others too.

You may or may not be aware though that it would be entirely possible to have non-elected members of the cabinet, these very CEO's of the other successful Irish businesses. The boss man himself (Cowen) could use his Senate nominations to draft such people in. I'm not sure if there is a limit on how many senators can fill cabinet positions, maybe someone more savvy with the constitution could fill me in there.

Dr Galen

P. Breathnach wrote: »

This really is an extraordinary thread. O'Leary did not expect what he said to be taken seriously. His figures mean nothing (you can't save €20bn by eliminating 20% of the civil, or even the public, service). He saw a platform for promoting a Ryanair agenda and he used it. That's all.

It takes a degree of idiocy to treat it as a serious prescription.

well I have to agree that it's taken on a life of its own, but it's been a useful and funny diversion from a wet and crappy Monday

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

_Kooli_ wrote: »

Jimmmy, you do realize, i hope, that the first thing MOL would do would be to scrap the dole.

FYP

cm2000

As far as I am concerned O' Leary should put up or shut up, we live in a democracy, if youre not happy, think those in charge are stupid or corrupt then run for election and change the damn thing. Nothing easier than commentary without action.

On another point I think taking €20bn out of the economy in one year is suicidal... he's a good strategist but not economist.

TheInquisitor

sold wrote: »

I work 42.5 hour week, so I have no problem dropping to 40 hours! ;-)

Don't include lunch...

irish_bob

dooferoaks wrote: »

1. The job your mother was expected to do is not what is expected of nurses today. Your mothers opinion of her wage is admirable.

2. If you asked your cousin (loving you say Male nurse since 1986, was he a female nurse pre '86?) does he think the wage the NHS pays him is fair for the years he has put in, the education he has undergone, he would probably say no.

Regardless of your opinion that ALL nurses in Ireland in the Private and Public sector are overpaid, after working for half my career in the NHS, most people I worked with feel undervalued by the Health Service in Britain.

no , he was a ( mail ) man pre 1986

Fix Irl inc

Tipp Man wrote: »

Good question:

1) reduce public sector numbers dramatically (thousands)
2) reduce public sector pay (by a good bit 20%??)
3) reduce social welfare (by a good bit 20% or more??)
4) tackle the unions with regards to public sector reform which just hasn't happened
5) introduce incentives to develop and expand Irish companies (some might say we have this in the enterprise boards) and get us back producing and exporting stuff

I reckon he'd get to at least 4 of these items

Enterprise boards - don't make me laugh

irish_bob

Berkut wrote: »

Fine Gael...are you mad?
Enda's a bloody joke of a politician and tbh I couldn't see him making any of the necessary cuts to save us..

agree in part , with enda as leader , fine gael wont have the numbers to form a goverment without labour and he is too centrist and populist to make the hard descisions anyway but with the right man at the helm , the party would clean up , its such a tragedy that ivan yates left politics , not only is he a right winger on economics , he has the personality and charisma to pull in the votes