Donegal Bay being destroyed?

rushnaldo

As the thread title suggests i feel that Donegal Bay is being totally destroyed to the point of gross neglect and shame on the people of our community. Now the reason this is not getting any coverage in the media or anywhere is because Donegal Bay "looks" perfectly healthy and beautiful so where is the problem?
Well I am an angler that has fished the bay for years and live in Killybegs so I know the state of life underneath the waves in the bay and over the last 20 or 30 years it has been decimated.
There are lots of contributing factors to this and the scientists will have their opinions and the fishermen will have theirs but we must all work together if the problem will be "cured".
Here are my opinions and i would love to hear your views..
A recent article in one of the local papers noted that there is a "counter" on the Eaney river in Inver and three years ago there went 3000 salmon up the river in 2007. In 2008 this number had dropped to around 2000 and so far this year the figure is around 1000. This is a truly shocking statistic and obviously banning the "driftnet men" gillnet salmon fishermen from the bay has not solved anything like the scientists and river anglers thought it would. The article also noted that white trout have been extinct in the river since the mid eighties. The problem is obviously not driftnets but a combination of pollution from farmers spraying chemicals on the land and the massive Seal population in the bay. The Seals are protected by law and they are doing unsustainable damage to our fishstocks and a study by scientists in Scotland proves that for every Salmon that humans eat then a seal will eat three. Its like having a fox in your henhouse because animal rights lovers say he is protected. Its crazy and future generations are beig deprived of this resource because of our inadequacy just like we are now compared to the people who enjoyed the thriving bay of the 70's..There simply MUST be a seal cull..
Another big story that rocked the bay was the salmon farms being wiped out a few years ago with entire businesses going out of comission with all the salmon mysteriously dying. What caused this tragedy was a topic of bars and workplaces all over the county and opinions are divided. The scientists have a thory of an algae boom called the "red tide" where temperate waters drifted in and smothered the oxygen out of the water and suffocated the salmon (the salmon are today starting to die again which is worrying workers on the cages at the moment after being re-stocked and doing well for a few years). Interesting thought I say and I feel myself that the gulf stream waveered in extremely close in those years as we had an abundance of Bluefin tuna in the bay and small craft men spent big money buying Lochin tuna boats for day trips to catch them by rod. There was a cloudy dust through the water back then and it wasnt just the salmon that died off but everything else along with them that nobody "owned" like Pollock and Wrasse and Haddock and Whiting etc etc and it truly was a tregedy. There was also a major devlopement in Killybegs that year where a new 50million pound pier was developed at the exact position in smooth point where raw sewage was piped out for years and a barge took the dredging waste "far out" to sea to be dumped so draw your own conclusions from that ...
Another big detractor that is destroying the whitefish and lobster in the area is the fact that the pelagic boats (the big mackerel tank boats) are now tied up most of the year due to strict quotas and the well flush crews have too much time on their hands so they buy small half deckers and punts to "pass the time". Also its absolutely criminal that these boats have been allowed to fish for herring during spawning season for years and the factoried take out the "row" (herring eggs) for the Japanese market for 5 pounds a 7 kilo tray. One of these boats alone can carry 2 thousand tonnes and thats crazy. I know that Mackerel are a fast breeder so will always survive but herring a slower to grow so it is genocide of a species. Not alone are the herring the losers here but the whitefish like Cod(almost extinct now in Donegal Bay) and Haddock and whiting would eat the row eggs around the sea bed during season so they also died off when this was taken from them due to our greed.
So never mind your waterbus and American tourists snapping the lovely seals on the sandbanks and the sufers riding the rollers of Tralore beach in Muckross and the Sun setting behind CArrigan head ona a Summers evening and just for once think about "what lies beneath" and give future generations the resource of this wonderful treasure we have and everyones a winner. I would love to hear what others think?

Winty

A Seal Cull will be one part of the complete picture,
Seals need to have their numbers cut and anyone who thinks it cruel I ask them what natural predator do the seals they have in Donegal Bay?
A life cycle needs to be a circle or as the highlands of Scotland has seen with an exploding deer population the natural balance will go off Kilter.

Co. Donegal have a number of skilled hunters that can do the job with skill and care.

josey_whale

Winty wrote: »

A Seal Cull will be one part of the complete picture,
Seals need to have their numbers cut and anyone who thinks it cruel I ask them what natural predator do the seals they have in Donegal Bay?
A life cycle needs to be a circle or as the highlands of Scotland has seen with an exploding deer population the natural balance will go off Kilter.

Co. Donegal have a number of skilled hunters that can do the job with skill and care.

I am not so sure about this. You are right that if there is a population explosion that the natural balance becomes skewed - but this is only in the short term. If there are too many seals and not enough food.... the population will eventually balance itself out. Culling in my opinion is a very short sighted solution.... like treating the symtopm and not the problem.

Quote from a recent (2005) epa paper....
http://www.epa.ie/downloads/pubs/water/wastewater/UWWT_Report_2004_2005.pdf

"The largest untreated discharge to a sensitive area is from Killybegs (Co. Donegal) with an estimated population equivalent of 400,000 p.e." This is for the entire country! PE meaning population equivalents. This encompasses all the fish processing waste, etc, etc that is being dumped into the bay.

An algal bloom occurs when there is an over supply of nutrients in the water... Lots of nutrients = explosion in the growth of plankton, which deplete the levels of oxygen in the water resulting in the death of fish. You can imagine what 400,000 PE of untreated waste is adding to the bay in terms of NPK (Nitrogen, phosphorous, Potassium). A red tide.... also known as a Harmful Algal Bloom (HAB), because these algae tint the sea with a reddish brown colour - the algae that produce the red tide produce toxins that accumulate in shellfish.

As regards the overfishing that is happening - yes this is criminal - don't forget folks that our seas are a nautral resource - by overfishing, it's not just the fisherment that are going to be screwed.

The key word here is sustainability. The phrase "junk in, junk out" comes to mind.... you pollute the environment and the environment will pollute you.

There are many forces at work here. One thing that we can do is stop polluting - This starts at home, be it recycle more, be it start pressurising our politicians to do more. The fact that there is little or no water treatment scheme in Kellybegs is a national disgrace - especially with our very own Tainiste from the area

Jean-Michel Cousteau put it well..... "failure to understand how nature works gobbles up the capital, which, over time, will bankrupt our natural resources"...............

I think we understand alot but don't do anywhere near enough about it...

Winty

Great reply Josey

You made a number of great points.

The future of the bay needs a number of factors to be addressed not just pollution and natural occurring phenomenon but overall how we utilities the bay. My point about a cull is a short term plan but it needs to happen soon and we can use the cull as a catalyst to start a bigger movement.

Do the seals have a natural control measure and will the population grow out of control if man does not do something.

Durnish

so, when was the driftnet ban put into place, two years ago?

josey_whale

Durnish wrote: »

so, when was the driftnet ban put into place, two years ago?

Been in place since 2007. http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2007/en/si/0253.html

jackthekipper

This post is salmon orientated. If salmon stocks don't increase at least a small bit in the next couple years something is badly wrong. I think it's too easy to blame seals (not saying they are not a factor), if salmon numbers drop then shouldn't seal numbers drop also in line with a food source? I used to fish a very good salmon river in Donegal (probably the top 10 in the country), amazing ru of salmon which were small due to the larger ones being caught in drift nets, and the attitude of some locals towards poaching was ridiculous, why can't people understand the more you kill of something the less there are to make babies? We have to admit we have an over abundance of thick morons in Donegal (look at our political representation).
Also in the last 10 years housing has gone up everywhere, any additional effluent has to end up in the water table, increase in forestries leads to acidification of water when excess amounts of needles end up in the rivers.
If salmon stocks are to increase in my opinion I think we need a concerted effort from the fishery board to set up hatcheries and possibly have angling clubs work on improving spawning habitat. Of course in Donegal we can't control what happens off the coast of Greenland where salmon feed, I suspect this may be an issue as Scotland is seeing numbers decline in some rivers.
Unfortuantely I think as a species we won't be happy until we completely piss in every pond there is and destroy it, I can see the wonderful torut loughs getting it next and god forbid Eskes char population.

rushnaldo

Well the Killybegs sewage scheme got the go ahead which is fantastic news as some of the stuff that is being pumped straight raw into the bay at the smooth point under the new pier is nothing short of shameful and the amount of dead shells around the shore would make your heart bleed..its a start

Work on the Killybegs sewerage scheme is going ahead, with confirmation today of 16million euro in funding.
The main pumping station, outfall and industrial collection system contract can now proceed under the Water Services Investment Programme of the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government.
The tendering process has also been completed with Ascon Ltd selected to carry out the work.
A new wastewater treatment plant for Killybegs is also being provided as part of a combined contract for Killybegs, Bundoran, Convoy and Glencolmcille.
Donegal County Council is currently finalising tender documents for the project.
Tánaiste Mary Coughlan has welcomed the announcement and said it’s expected that construction will begin as quickly as possible.
http://oceanfm.ie/news/2010/04/01/green-light-for-work-on-killybegs-sewerage-scheme/

muffler

rushnaldo wrote: »

The tendering process has also been completed with Ascon Ltd selected to carry out the work.
A new wastewater treatment plant for Killybegs is also being provided as part of a combined contract for Killybegs, Bundoran, Convoy and Glencolmcille.
Donegal County Council is currently finalising tender documents for the project.
Tánaiste Mary Coughlan has welcomed the announcement and said it’s expected that construction will begin as quickly as possible.
http://oceanfm.ie/news/2010/04/01/green-light-for-work-on-killybegs-sewerage-scheme/

This is what bloody well annoys me about politicians. If the funding is there and tender documents are in progress then there is defined start/completion dates in those documents so why cant she just say its going to start on whatever date.

In typical politician lingo - I also welcome this news

Graces7

Please don't target the seals.

As stronger voices than mine say here, that is not the cause.

I lived many years on a Scottish offshore island; same issues and seals wrongly blamed for human caused problems,

rushnaldo

Untreated raw sewage is still being pumped into Donegal Harbour. This, despite the fact that a multi million pipe, storage and treatment system has been provided, health concerns are running at an all time high among residents along the coastline from Donegal Town to Killybegs.
In the last three weeks, floating ‘rafts’ of raw, untreated sewage were observed in the areas adjacent to the new outfall treatment pipes in Donegal Harbour. Passengers and crew of Donegal Bay Waterbus on a so called ‘pleasure‘ cruise two weeks ago, were left with shocking memories of the beautifully scenic bay, when on top deck taking in the views, were greeted by the pungent smell and sight of hundreds of litres of raw human faeces, as this vessel cruised through it.

The channel from Ballyboyle Island to the ‘Hassans’ area and out to Mountcharles Pier, as one person crudely put it, “was covered in ****”, carried along on the ebb tide. Swells of a white substance has also been observed in this area over the last weeks.

Mountcharles resident, Alice Kelly, an avid canoeist and whose home overlooks Donegal Bay, was out on the channel at 11am on Sunday11th April. Speaking to the Democrat she said,” I canoe this beautiful area regularly, and was paddling through the deep water ‘Hassans’ on the ebb tide, navigating the channel to Mountcharles Pier, when I was left with no other choice but to ‘plough’ through this disgusting mess. Being so close to the water in a small canoe, you can imagine this experience was nauseous and stomach churning. There were quite a number of people on the pier when I reached it, who also expressed disgust.The waters around the pier were saturated in sewage. My canoe had to be literally hosed down on site as it was covered in the filth. The smell was unreal.”

Stinking Disgrace

This newspaper’s front page headlines of Tuesday 7th October 2008, “A Stinking Disgrace’, highlighted the disgusting first hand experiences of this reporter at the supposedly sewage free Donegal harbour. At that time hundreds of litres of untreated raw sewage was observed being pumped out from a one foot diameter pipe partially concealed in the rock armour harbour wall.

At the time Council engineer Peter Donaghey told this newspaper that the newly installed system is totally sealed and it is suspected that the sewage seen, was coming from small number of buildings that discharge sewage via the town’s storm drains. The council maintained they have accounted for 98-99% of existing Doenagl Town sewage connections and are aiming to achieve 100% .

The recent raw sewage problem seems to be attributed by a fault in the treatment area at Drumkeeghan. When contacted last Thursday, Donegal County Council engineers involved in this area said they were not aware of a current problem and have confirmed that they will have this matter investigated.
http://www.donegaldemocrat.ie/donegalnews/Donegal-port-still-39a-stinking.6269149.jp

Also here is a picture taken this week at Killybegs pier

rushnaldo

Looks like the seal cull is on the cards.. you agree or disagree?

They melt hearts with their doe-eyed appearance, but the number of seals on the northwest coast have led to calls for a cull to be considered.
Trawlermen and anglers operating off the coast of Donegal say their livelihood is being threatened because of the absence of a natural predator for seals in Irish waters.
Joe McHugh, a Fine Gael TD for the northwest, said his constituents believe there should be a discussion on the possible need for a humane seal cull.
He said a review of legislation protecting seals was required in addition to an investigation into possible breeding controls.
“If we have humane annual deer culls on this island, we should open a debate on having a humane seal cull,” he said.
Seals are a protected species and cannot be harmed under the Wildlife Act 1967, which was re-enforced by the EU Habitats Directive. But Lorcan O Cinneide, chairman of the Federation of Irish Fishermen, said his members are reporting that numbers of the mammals in Irish coastal waters have increased “out of all proportion”.
He said scientific evidence was required to verify if this was correct and, if proved to be the case, then a rational debate on possible management solutions was needed.
“There may be a case for having to manage them but we have to establish the facts,” he said.
Cinneide, who stopped short of calling for an immediate cull, said seals were an important part of sea life, but he argued that offshore net catches were being affected by them.
Charlie O’Donnell, a member of the Malin Head fishermen’s co-op in Donegal, said seals are able to open crab and lobster pots and remove bait or catch.
“A study needs to be done on the impact seals are having and a balance needs to be found,” he said. “If you start mentioning a cull, people automatically start to see a little seal being clubbed and that’s an emotive image. But population management needs to be looked at.”
O’Donnell said cod fishermen and other white fish trawlermen were also experiencing problems.
Michael Boyce, who operates crab and lobster pots from Greencastle in Donegal, said he had to develop a seal-proof catch on his pots to prevent his bait being robbed. He said seals follow lines from the buoys down to pots and raid their contents.
Seal activists oppose any cull and say there is no proven link between declining fish numbers and the growth of the mammals, a common sight in harbours and estuaries.
Michelle Cronin, a marine biologist with the Coastal and Marine Resources Centre based at Haulbowline, Co Cork, said that it was impossible to tell if the actual number of seals was increasing and what effect this may be having on fish stocks.
Two surveys conducted in 2003 and 2005 put the levels of both harbour and grey seals, Ireland’s two species, at an estimated 10,000 in the sea surrounding the republic.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article7127827.ece

fontanalis

The seals must be culled as they're over fishing. If there's a seal cull and fishermen don't have bigger catches, what then?

Graces7

fontanalis wrote: »

The seals must be culled as they're over fishing. If there's a seal cull and fishermen don't have bigger catches, what then?

Not true in any way.
Targetting the seals is the wrong way to go.

Please, contact the Irish Seal rescue people and get accurate info from them; they are the total experts on marine life.

The problem is with man overfishing and polluting.

We saw this situation in the Scottish islands; same blame place and same tactics.

Like the atrocity a few years ago on Blaskett

The only thing that will avail is to tackle the pollution and tackle the over fishing and that will take years.

Man find it easy to blame others and hard to accept his sins.

fontanalis

Graces7 wrote: »

Not true in any way.
Targetting the seals is the wrong way to go.

Please, contact the Irish Seal rescue people and get accurate info from them; they are the total experts on marine life.

The problem is with man overfishing and polluting.

We saw this situation in the Scottish islands; same blame place and same tactics.

Like the atrocity a few years ago on Blaskett

The only thing that will avail is to tackle the pollution and tackle the over fishing and that will take years.

Man find it easy to blame others and hard to accept his sins.

I was being sarcastic and laying the blame on commercial fishing, but ireland being Ireland the yokels will keep killing salmon and wonder why there's none left.
If growing numbers of seals are responsible for the decline why aren't seal numbers decliing due to lack of a food source?

tedshredsonfire

fontanalis wrote: »

I was being sarcastic and laying the blame on commercial fishing, but ireland being Ireland the yokels will keep killing salmon and wonder why there's none left.
If growing numbers of seals are responsible for the decline why aren't seal numbers decliing due to lack of a food source?

+1 commercial fishing is killing our ocean. Did the seals eat all the cod as well? declining fishstocks are a worldwide problem not just in Donegal Bay.

Graces7

fontanalis wrote: »

I was being sarcastic and laying the blame on commercial fishing, but ireland being Ireland the yokels will keep killing salmon and wonder why there's none left.
If growing numbers of seals are responsible for the decline why aren't seal numbers decliing due to lack of a food source?

Apologies; as we have family in Canada, seal culls are a sore subject.

When I lived in Scotland, I used to find baby seals or young ones on the road and protect them against the salmon farmers. Spent an hour once early in the morning persuading one to cross the road back to the sea before they came to work. Boy, do they have teeth!

And that is the real point; re their food supply I mean. Talking to folk on the waterbus and the seals are a real tourist attraction.

NB we were watching the mullet early on Sunday, from the pier. Plenty of them around still, large ones too.