Dublin Canals Cycle Route

petethedrummer

I hope you're going to submit those comments somewhere monument. Even to a local councillor who might run with a few or all of the points you have raised.

alfalad

petethedrummer wrote: »

I hope you're going to submit those comments somewhere monument. Even to a local councillor who might run with a few or all of the points you have raised.

Very much agree with this, you raise some good points and have taken the time to go through the documents so would be very good to submit it to the councillors etc.

petethedrummer

Having been involved in many engineering projects (though not civil) and met many local councillors, nothing would please a person more than having list of concerns to raise in a planning or design meeting.

monument

To build on and fully explain my comments last night:

Also, sorry if any of this seems like nit picking to people who are trying to do good work, it's just if this is not done right I will become even more cynical about cycling provisions in Dublin.

>> Pages 1 to 21: Portobello to Grand Canal Street: This all seems ok, but a lot depends on junctions and other elements such as the small bit of boardwalk which are currently noted as to be designed at a later stage. These sections along the canal are easy enough to do right, as others have said, it's the junctions that cause problems. Will there be extra room for stacking and/or turning, at least at major junctions, as is best design elsewhere?

>> On junctions in general: How are the Toucan crossing due to work? Will they have separated areas for cyclists and peds? Or will the green sequence for peds and cyclists allow for entry or exit off the main route onto different roads?

>> Page 11: Wilton Terrace: A text box pointing to the cycle track reads: "new 2.4m parking on south side of Wilton Terrace." The cross section does not note parking on or beside the cycle path here. Is this an error?

>> Pages 21 and 22: Grand Canal Street to Grand Canal Quay... it gets very disjointed here...

>> Page 21 and 22: On Grand Canal Quay, south of and at Pearse Street: Why does the two-way cycle track end on Grand Canal Street and split into two “advisory” tracks and then end at the junction rather than use of a Toucan crossing directly across Pearse Street?

>> Page 22: The junction with Pearse Street is not marked as to be designed later as others are. Is this an error?

>> Pages 22 and 23: North of Pearse Street: It should be noted the Dublin Docklands Authority area has some of the poorest, disconnected cycle lanes in Dublin. Besides the lanes along the river quays, the Docklands is also highly notable as a newly designed area with no cycling provision (maybe better off given what was done along the quays). OR has the DDDA really changed as it's newer head, Professor Niamh Brennan, claimed about other functions of the authority recent newspaper reports?

>> North of Pearse Street: Map looks to show Grand Canal Quay as road way, when this is now a paved area [marked as 'Forbes Street']?

>> Why are no lane markings being used across the paved areas north of Pearse Street to after Grand Canal Square? It’s not clear what happens on the map, but it is noted in the other documents that no lane markings will be used, and some kind of signage will be agreed with the DDDA.

>> Is it because Grand Canal Quay / Square is not designed as a cycle route and there’s an unwillingness to redesign it? It’s a wide open space, but it gets quite tight because of the way green areas are designed at one side of the square.

>> Pages 23 and 24: North of Grand Canal Square: How do or how can parking space (or loading bays or whatever) and only 1.25 “advisory” cycle lanes fit into the design of a project which is supposed to be world class?

>> Pages 21 to 24: This could be viewed as creating a number of problems:

>>>> [1] Creating a conflict with pedestrians -- it's one thing mixing cyclists and pedestrians in areas like small short cuts or leading up to cycling parking or buildings, but is this suited on a high standard cycle route which is should expect to have high volumes of passing (rather than slowing) cyclists? Is it suited to an area like a square where you'd expected to have pedestrians wondering around in all different directions?

>>>> [2] Creating a conflict with motorists at both sides of the square with only "advisory cycle lanes".

>>>> [3] Both of these break the high standard of the route, both the practical and visual level. Leading to a disjointed feeling when this is supposed to be a fully joint up project.

>>>> [4] Slowing slowing some commuter and leisure cyclists down so much as to make the route, or at least the section, unattractive to many.

>>>> [5] Creating confusion among cyclists and pedestrians -- if cyclists are to be allowed here are they also allowed to cycle in large paved areas around the Docklands? Around the city? Are there legal issues here? Should policy be set at a city or national level rather than in a patch work manner?

>> Pages 25 and 26: On the Samuel Beckett Bridge: This can’t really be blamed on the designers of this cycle route, but two-way cycle lanes on both sides only at 2.5m? And marking only between cyclists and pedestrians? This is just 1.25m each way on cycle track which is part of a river crossing and a premium cycle route?

>> Pages 25 and 26: How will the cycle tracks on the bridge link with the current [as already noted, poorly designed and maintained] cycle tracks on the quays?

>> From the maps online it’s very hard to make out what exactly is happing on both ends of the bridge with cyclists, other traffic and pedestrians.

>> Page 26: North of the Samuel Beckett Bridge: Says the cycle tracks is along the proposed linear park... is there a foothpath beside this? If not, you can’t really blame pedestrians for walking on the cycle track.

>> Page 28 etc: Same with the section of the off-street north of Sheriff Street Will there be a path for people walking etc? It says in the other documents the bridge will be ped and cycling bridge, but it’s not clear from the drawings. And will the bridge be wide enough for cyclists and others?

>> Page 35: East Wall Road: What exactly is the issue where it states "continuation of cycle lane to be decided later"?

petethedrummer

All they need to do is send the plans to Denmark City Council and ask them to have a look over them for an hour or 2.

I wonder has any guidance been sought from experts in Amsterdam, Copenhagen or Germany? Or are we going to get it wrong the first time and have to spend even more money in the long run having to fix it up.

p

petethedrummer wrote: »

All they need to do is send the plans to Denmark City Council and ask them to have a look over them for an hour or 2.

I wonder has any guidance been sought from experts in Amsterdam, Copenhagen or Germany? Or are we going to get it wrong the first time and have to spend even more money in the long run having to fix it up.

They could also talk to Copenhagenize Consulting
http://www.copenhagenize.eu/

I actually have a few contacts in the Copenhagen City Council. I wonder if there would be some way to organise a trip to copenhagen for some planning/council folks? I'd be happy to try use my contacts to make it a good trip.


Monument - if you want a hand doing up drawings to reflect the issues you're talking about give me a shout. It's probably hard to read text that are critiques of these things.

monument

Ok so this is the street that's apparently too small to have a two-way segregated cycle track on it [sorry for the poor quality of the pics!]:

monument

And this is the area cyclists are due to pass by and interact with pedestrians, with no lane marking or changes.



Or go around this way? Will be lovely on a busy evening and even more so on a nice sunny day...

justo

DCC_Cycling (Ciaran) wrote: »

The first stage of a proposed Dublin Canals Cycle Route is currently at public consultation stage. Documents can be viewed and comments made by following the link below and entering planning reference 4148/09.

http://www.dublincity.ie/Planning/PlanningSearch/Pages/PlanningSearch.aspx

Ciarán

Hi Ciaran,

I've used the new Samuel Beckett bridge, both North and South bound on my bike. It's a little unfortunate the way the bike lane is merged with the pedestrians' walk space. After a cyclist uses the lane you get dumped at either end onto the pavement with no easy way to get back onto your bike path. Heading north bound this is particularly problematic, becasue if you want to proceed straight ahead, you need to situate yourself on the RHS of vehicles turning left whcih means leaving the bike bath and crossing the left turning line of traffic. Heading north and south bound, getting on to the bike path is diffifult too, as you have to get around people who are waiting to cross the road. Personally, I'll stick to using the bus lane for safety sake, which is a pity, because it's better to design things well and use them in that fashion.

monument

Submission by the Dublin Cycle Campaign is here:

http://www.dublincycling.com/sites/dublincycling.ie/files/users/12/2009-12-18-Portobello-Fairview_Submission.pdf

They list some of the points I made above and more general points too.

JacksonHeightsOwn

monument wrote: »

Ok so this is the street that's apparently too small to have a two-way segregated cycle track on it [sorry for the poor quality of the pics!]:

since when did Dublin turn into fasionable Berlin?

where is that?

loyatemu

chrisbonnie wrote: »

since when did Dublin turn into fasionable Berlin?

where is that?

Here

JacksonHeightsOwn

loyatemu wrote: »

Here

wow, looks fantastic :eek:

mambo

Work seems to have started on this route, at Wilton Terrace (between Leeson St & Baggot St bridges).

AidanadiA

Hi there,

I'm currently working on an accdemic report on the cycle paths along the Grand Canal.

Would there be any interest in taking part in the questionnaire segment?


Please feel free to PM me.

Thank you,

BostonB

Can you post some details of the report?

AidanadiA

BostonB wrote: »

Can you post some details of the report?

It's a course report for my communications module.

I've chosen the revamping of the waterways focusing on the cycle paths.

I want to find out just some basic questions. If people are for the revamp, if it will be used more etc.

justo

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=2056080076

mambo

mambo wrote: »

Work seems to have started on this route, at Wilton Terrace (between Leeson St & Baggot St bridges).

Progress seems slow, they are still working on this small section of the route, though most of it seems substantially complete (in that there is a double lane separated from the road), except for painting, signage, etc.

Have any other sections been started?

mambo

mambo wrote: »

Work seems to have started on this route, at Wilton Terrace (between Leeson St & Baggot St bridges).

Work also now underway at Herbert Place (next section after Wilton Terrace, heading towards docklands), and at Macken Street (opposite Maldron Hotel, in docklands).

Hope the money doesn't run out before they finish!

BostonB

The camber on the bit from Wilton terrace seems quite severe.

mambo

Most of this cycle route seems to be in place, and in use by lots of cyclists, but without proper traffic lights in most cases, forcing cyclists to dismount and become pedestrians (unlikely) or else just, er, improvise and cycle through the junction when it seems possible to do so (which is not particularly safe).

So whats the delay with the lights?

Micilin Muc

mambo wrote: »

So whats the delay with the lights?

The lights aren't in the ROTR yet, I don't know when they'll change that.

mrbike

I've just cycled the stretch from Grand Canal dock to Leeson St. The lights are working, and they give priority to left turning traffic. If you're in the bike lane, you're signalled to stop and wait.

I have to say, I'm disgusted. You'd be quicker on the road, as you wouldn't loose your priority to left turning traffic. It looks like it's correctly signed, so legally we have to use it. What a waste of a great opportunity.

monument

mrbike wrote: »

It looks like it's correctly signed, so legally we have to use it.

Nope. Not signed as a cycle track.

It seem to be signed as a cycleway and there is no requirement to use a cycleway!

mrbike

monument wrote: »

Nope. Not signed as a cycle track.!

Well that's some good news, I suppose. Now how to educate motorists as to why you're not using it is another matter...

monument

mrbike wrote: »

Well that's some good news, I suppose. Now how to educate motorists as to why you're not using it is another matter...

Indeed, there's about two threads on it already.

BostonB

mrbike wrote: »

..I have to say, I'm disgusted. You'd be quicker on the road, as you wouldn't loose your priority to left turning traffic. It looks like it's correctly signed, so legally we have to use it. What a waste of a great opportunity.

You don't need to its much easier to cycle the other side of the canal on the road. Its not a route that ever needed a cycle lane on the side they built it on. Those are quiet streets anyway.

mrbike wrote: »

Well that's some good news, I suppose. Now how to educate motorists as to why you're not using it is another matter...

Its a waste of time. Most motorists who will start a thread about it, have no experience of cycling, not looked at the stats, research and simply want to vent. In fact if the opening post of the thread has no information other than a rant, it should be closed, or moved to another forum.

Chips Lovell

Anyone else notice this is creating mad traffic jams on the canal, even before eight in the morning. The problem seems to be Portobello bridge. They've installed another set of traffic lights at the town side of the bridge. Now anyone wanting to turn left off the canal can get stuck behind these lights and the people wanting to go straight on get stuck behind them.

i57dwun4yb1pt8

it is a complete cluster fcuk

been using it all week ,
its like being in a video game where you come close to dying quite often

peds , dogs, cobble stones - a cycle way on cobble stones ?
drunken morons outside the barge pub lying on the cycle path
bikes and peds backed up at each bridge .

twas a nice try but christ you need a drink to face it each morning.