Amr Zaki says he wouldn't work with Israelis and Algerians

d22ontour

drkpower wrote: »

but what I seem to be seeing here is a veiw that they can be legitimately be targetted for the actions of their country.

Peacefully targetted may i add.

He isn't discriminating/boycotting Ben Haim/Grant directly though.Am trying to word this correctly without a racism ban... he is discriminating against Israelis/Jews/Algerians in the viewpoint that he won't work with anyone from either country.They just happen to be from those countries.As i said i find it bizarre in some ways but it's not surprising either.

drkpower

d22ontour wrote: »

Peacefully targetted may i add.

Sure, but it is peaceful to target a certain group of people by refusing them employment on foot of their nationality or race. Yet it is still wrong.

Fair play to him for sticking to his guns.

Maybe a mistake to publicy speak his mind though.

drkpower

rarnes1 wrote: »

Fair play to him for sticking to his guns.

Maybe a mistake to publicy speak his mind though.

Sticking to his guns?
Those 'guns' being tarring each individual of an entire nation with the same brush?

d22ontour

drkpower wrote: »

Sure, but it is peaceful to target a certain group of people by refusing them employment on foot of their nationality or race.

Uhm he isn't refusing them employment , he is refusing to work with people from them regions.Hardly the same tbh.

drkpower wrote: »

Yet it is still wrong.

I find it bizarre considering his employment but i wouldn't be foolish enough to say it's wrong politically.

drkpower

d22ontour wrote: »

Uhm he isn't refusing them employment , he is refusing to work with people from them regions.Hardly the same tbh.
.

If it is wrong for an employer to discriminate on that basis, why is it not wrong for an employee to do the same?

drkpower

drkpower wrote: »

Sticking to his guns?
Those 'guns' being tarring each individual of an entire nation with the same brush?

He stuck to his beliefs, good for him. No-one knows his personal circumstances.

His mistake was going public.

d22ontour

drkpower wrote: »

If it is wrong for an employer to discriminate on that basis, why is it not wrong for an employee to do the same?

If you think your/my/anyones employer doesn't/hasn't discrimate/d at some point then i don't know what to say tbh.Employee discriminating against a potential employer is quite funny in some way , no ?

Bubs101

People seem to have completely forgotten that Avram Grant represented the nation as their manager at a time when the conflict had been reignited and being the manager of Israel, a country who play in the UEFA quotient because FIFA officialls are literally scared of the potential crowd trouble an Israel vs. Egypt tie would have. it's not as if this man just happens to be Israeli, he managed their national team and has strong Hollocaust links and people with strong links to the Hollocaust are nearly always massively pro Israeli (as long as they're not Germans )

elshambo

mike65
Im not saying this to agree with Bubs one way or the other BUT you realize what you just said:

mike65 wrote: »

Its not a legitimate reason, its a political reason. He plays football. So if lets say Liverpool made him an offer no sane player would refuse should he cos Yossi Benayoun plays for the club?

means you think sports teams should have kept touring South Africa during apartheid:eek:

Dont let your mates over at the Guardian hear you say that:rolleyes:

*ooh and while still not agreeing with Zaki
for most of the people on here giving him abuse for his views

Tried being English in this country anytime in the last 30-40 years? :eek:

drkpower

d22ontour wrote: »

If you think your/my/anyones employer doesn't/hasn't discrimate/d at some point then i don't know what to say tbh.

So?
The question is whether that is right or wrong - what do you think?

drkpower

Bubs101 wrote: »

People seem to have completely forgotten that Avram Grant represented the nation as their manager at a time when the conflict had been reignited and being the manager of Israel, a country who play in the UEFA quotient because FIFA officialls are literally scared of the potential crowd trouble an Israel vs. Egypt tie would have.)

Sorry?
Does being a manager of a national team impute some kind of support for the political objectives of the country you manage?
Does Trappatoni support NAMA?

Bubs101 wrote: »

it's not as if this man just happens to be Israeli, he managed their national team and has strong Hollocaust links and people with strong links to the Hollocaust are nearly always massively pro Israeli (as long as they're not Germans )

What are strong Holocaust links?
And please explain how people with strong links to the Hollocaust are nearly always massively pro Israeli?
What the hell does that mean?

Bubs101

drkpower wrote: »

Sorry?
Does being a manager of a national team impute some kind of support for the political objectives of the country you manage?
Does Trappatoni support NAMA?

Not normally but with Israel yes it does. Being the arm of any Israeli agenda suggests you support them. You can't think of Israel as you would a normal state. It transcends that. it's an ideology in itself. It's like the way people acknowledge that Reifenstahl was a great director but you won't see the triumph of the Will on Film4 but far less extreme obviously

drkpower wrote: »

What are strong Holocaust links?
And please explain how people with strong links to the Hollocaust are nearly always massively pro Israeli?
What the hell does that mean?

Strong ties to the holocaust. Just because you're Irish doesn't mean you had relatives who died in the famine. just because you're Jewish doesn't mean you had relatives who died in the Holocaust. The rest of it explains itself. Check his wiki if you need background

drkpower

Bubs101 wrote: »

Not normally but with Israel yes it does. Being the arm of any Israeli agenda suggests you support them. You can't think of Israel as you would a normal state. It transcends that. it's an ideology in itself. It's like the way people acknowledge that Reifenstahl was a great director but you won't see the triumph of the Will on Film4 but far less extreme obviously

So being employed by any Israeli state agency implies support for all of Israel's policies?
I know a number of people who have been employed by and acted for Israeli stats agencies. Are you saying they supported the Sate's political objectives?
I hate using the 'r' word but that is utter rubbish bordering on racism.

Bubs101 wrote: »

Strong ties to the holocaust. Just because you're Irish doesn't mean you had relatives who died in the famine. just because you're Jewish doesn't mean you had relatives who died in the Holocaust. The rest of it explains itself. Check his wiki if you need background

Perhaps you might explain it further because you are not making it at all clear. You said that 'people with strong links to the Hollocaust are nearly always massively pro Israeli'. Does that mean that people who have had family members who are victims of the Holocaust are automatically supporters of Israeli State policies?

Fromvert

He can play/work for whoever he wants (obviously the club would have to want him). If he doesn't like a certain race thats up to him.

But if there is someone who can give me a reason to like the Israelis I would like to here it.

Edit: I have my own reason, Yossi.

gosplan

Well, one could say that Zionism calls for an exclusivist state which means that Israel's policies are basically a form of apartheid. Pretty sure that the UN have recognised this on the record sometime in the past.

And if you accept this, and accept that the cessation of sports tours and arms trade with South Africa was the correct decision at that time, then surely one would be obliged to do the same here, no?

In fairness to Zaki, it's not that big a jump to remove it from the state and make it personal - particularly as bubs says, if you're from Egypt.

gosplan

drkpower wrote: »

So being employed by any Israeli state agency implies support for all of Israel's policies?
I know a number of people who have been employed by and acted for Israeli stats agencies. Are you saying they supported the Sate's political objectives?
I hate using the 'r' word but that is utter rubbish bordering on racism.

No it means that they were either pro-Israel or at least apolitical.

They did support the State though maybe not it's political objectives. To be honest it's not that different.

Like if you're a recreational drug user in Ireland. You're probably non-violent and appalled at the idea of the odd part time plumber and innocent bystander getting executed as the gangs sort out their problems. You don't support these people's objectives and there's no way you can condone what they do but that's exactly where your money ends up.

everdead.ie

Rondolfus wrote: »

Anti-Israel does not necessarily mean anti-semetic.

Its not often the modern footballer chooses personal beliefs over cash. He's decision may seem weird, "stupid", or drastic to some people, however, I see it as a peaceful way to highlight an important issue i.e Israels apartheid like system.

Didn't the world refuse to work with South Africa during the apartheid?? Same difference if you ask me.

It comes across from Zaki as I am Holyier then thou then I'm highlighting an issue that i take an afront to for instance what has avram grant ever done , He's a stand up a guy and a great football person a great ambassador of the game and he deserves more respect from Zaki irrelevant of where he's from.

drkpower

gosplan wrote: »

And if you accept this, and accept that the cessation of sports tours and arms trade with South Africa was the correct decision at that time, then surely one would be obliged to do the same here, no?.

You are taking a massive leap here. We are not talking about boycotting a nation. We are not talking about boycotting a club of an entirely diffferent nation because an Israeli is emplyed there.

To continue the South Africa analogy, it would be like boycotting Liverpool in the 80s because a random white South African played for them. Is that appropriate?

gosplan wrote: »

They did support the State though maybe not it's political objectives. To be honest it's not that different.

Really?
It's not that different? Have a little think about that for yourself.
Do you support Ireland as a State? Do you support NAMA?
Does a proud Englishman necessarily support the Iraq war?

Chardee MacDennis

BumbleBee123 wrote: »

Have you ever talked to an Israeli or met one?

yes

enfant terrible wrote: »

Would you work with someone from a muslim country considering how they treat women and homosexuals?

very good point tbh....

enfant terrible

Fromvert wrote: »

But if there is someone who can give me a reason to like the Israelis I would like to here it.

Defeating Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon and Syria in 1948 was pretty impressive