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Child Welfare changes

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    #2
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,888 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    nesf wrote: »

    Seems like a reasonable proposal.

    I think it does yes


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    #3
    OMD
    Registered Users Posts: 2,458 ✭✭✭OMD


    Will cost many workers a lot more than pay cuts but no one really seems to care. Certainly not as much as pay cuts.


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    #4
    podge3
    Registered Users Posts: 1,743 ✭✭✭podge3


    nesf wrote: »
    ...with payments to low income families to make sure they receive the same money as before the cut.
    We need to create an incentive to work by ensuring that there is a large gap between what is available on welfare and what you can earn by getting a job.

    A proposal like this may just make the gap even narrower. One of the examples in the recent McCarthy report says that a married couple with 3 kids would need to earn around €41k per year to break even with welfare payments.


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    #5
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    podge3 wrote: »
    We need to create an incentive to work by ensuring that there is a large gap between what is available on welfare and what you can earn by getting a job.

    A proposal like this may just make the gap even narrower. One of the examples in the recent McCarthy report says that a married couple with 3 kids would need to earn around €41k per year to break even with welfare payments.

    Untrue actually. When you factor in the Family Income Suppliment someone with several children is often better off working a low income job than they are sitting on welfare.

    The problem is with non-parents and the basic level of welfare for them rather than child payment levels. To widen the gap you speak of you need to reduce basic welfare rates rather than something like child benefit.


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    #6
    Andy Mc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 79 ✭✭Andy Mc


    The €100,000 income level on child benefit that is being discussed, is this on the mother's income only or is it on the combined income of the household, it would not be fair on married people who say both earn €50,000 (I would not class these as high earners) , how would they take into account separated people , co-habiting parents?


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    #7
    Kashkai
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,399 ✭✭✭Kashkai


    Jeez, we are getting by on €50k a year and thats by relying on the children's allowance for our 4 soon to be 5 kids. If we had €100k a year, I'd happily forgo our child benefit as we'd be getting over 5 times the amount we get for the kids from the Dept of Social and Family Affairs (i.e. €10k a year that we spend on luxeries like food, clothes for the kids, bills and the mortgage).

    If you can't survive on €100k a year, then you seriously need to look at cutting back the foreign holidays from 3 to maybe 1, don't replace the car every year and only go to a restaurant once a month maybe :rolleyes:. For us, we haven't had a holiday since 2005, the car is 5 years old, can't remember the last time I was in a restaurant etc. AND as a public servant who's already had a pay cut, sorry pension contribution of €4k taken out of his salary this year with more cuts to come, I would love to have a "combined income of €100k" to get by on. It appears that the more money you have in this country, the more you want the bar raised so you aren't asked to cut back to save this little country from sinking into the Atlantic under the weight of national debt.


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    #8
    lmimmfn
    Registered Users Posts: 3,553 ✭✭✭lmimmfn


    Prosperous Dave wrote: »
    Jeez, we are getting by on €50k a year and thats by relying on the children's allowance for our 4 soon to be 5 kids. If we had €100k a year, I'd happily forgo our child benefit as we'd be getting over 5 times the amount we get for the kids from the Dept of Social and Family Affairs (i.e. €10k a year that we spend on luxeries like food, clothes for the kids, bills and the mortgage).

    If you can't survive on €100k a year, then you seriously need to look at cutting back the foreign holidays from 3 to maybe 1, don't replace the car every year and only go to a restaurant once a month maybe :rolleyes:. For us, we haven't had a holiday since 2005, the car is 5 years old, can't remember the last time I was in a restaurant etc. AND as a public servant who's already had a pay cut, sorry pension contribution of €4k taken out of his salary this year with more cuts to come, I would love to have a "combined income of €100k" to get by on. It appears that the more money you have in this country, the more you want the bar raised so you aren't asked to cut back to save this little country from sinking into the Atlantic under the weight of national debt.
    seriously, and i honestly dont mean to offend in any way but isint it a bit insane to have 5 kids with a 50K income? but i commend you on being able to survive on that with such a large family.

    I wonder will a guy i know who gets 750euro a week get his top up for being low income to ensure he gets the same as before?


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    #9
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    Andy Mc wrote: »
    The €100,000 income level on child benefit that is being discussed, is this on the mother's income only or is it on the combined income of the household, it would not be fair on married people who say both earn €50,000 (I would not class these as high earners) , how would they take into account separated people , co-habiting parents?

    Married couples are treated as a single entity tax wise and for assessing income generally speaking. If you both earn 30K you're treated as a single individual earning 60K for qualifying for benefits etc.


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    #10
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    nesf wrote: »
    Married couples are treated as a single entity tax wise and for assessing income generally speaking. If you both earn 30K you're treated as a single individual earning 60K for qualifying for benefits etc.

    The article talks about an across the board cut in the benefit with a larger cut for those on over €100,000. But it is the Social Welfare, not Revenue who will administer this using PRSI records to determine the high earners. Given that, I'd imagine it would apply just to the CHB recipient's earnings (usually the mother), not on joint income.


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    #11
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    dvpower wrote: »
    The article talks about an across the board cut in the benefit with a larger cut for those on over €100,000. But it is the Social Welfare, not Revenue who will administer this using PRSI records to determine the high earners. Given that, I'd imagine it would apply just to the CHB recipient's earnings (usually the mother), not on joint income.

    Um, it says that the Department of Social Welfare and the Revenue are working out who is over 100K a year for this third lower rate.


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    #12
    Dannyboy83
    Registered Users Posts: 4,236 ✭✭✭Dannyboy83


    nesf wrote: »
    Married couples are treated as a single entity tax wise and for assessing income generally speaking. If you both earn 30K you're treated as a single individual earning 60K for qualifying for benefits etc.

    A recent OECD report recommended that they get rid of this, in order to encourage women to enter the workforce.
    The Government should consider introducing full individualization in the tax system, which would entail the abolition of higher standard rate bands for single-income married couples, in order to encourage the participation of women in the labour force.
    When I was a kid, not many families had mothers in employment and most people seemed to get along ok. Now it seems both parents have to be in employment unless one parent has a particularly good job.
    Not something I would encourage tbh!


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    #13
    OMD
    Registered Users Posts: 2,458 ✭✭✭OMD


    Prosperous Dave wrote: »
    Jeez, we are getting by on €50k a year and thats by relying on the children's allowance for our 4 soon to be 5 kids. If we had €100k a year, I'd happily forgo our child benefit as we'd be getting over 5 times the amount we get for the kids from the Dept of Social and Family Affairs (i.e. €10k a year that we spend on luxeries like food, clothes for the kids, bills and the mortgage).
    .

    As a public servant, if your salary increased by €50,000 up to €100,000 you would be about €15,000 a year better off after pension payments, PRSI, Levies and Tax. Your childrens allowance is worth €11,300 a year to you. So if you got a €50,000 pay rise but lost your children's allowance you would be better off by about €70 a week.

    However in December budget you could expect your €100,000 to be cut by 6% to you would really only be better off by about €30 a week. Do you still really want that promotion? Will you really be able to go on 3 holidays a year?


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    #14
    Vyse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,400 ✭✭✭Vyse


    lmimmfn wrote: »
    seriously, and i honestly dont mean to offend in any way but isint it a bit insane to have 5 kids with a 50K income? but i commend you on being able to survive on that with such a large family.

    Why is it a bit insane? He seems to be coping well. I have nothing but respect for people who are able to manage their money correctly. The majority of people in this country cannot. I'd like to think that if I was in the same position that I'd also be able to manage comfortably.


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