Flooding Plumbing and Heating Questions

items

I've noticed many questions coming in from the flooding victims in relation to their plumbing and heating systems. I am a Qualified Plumber with over 15 years experience, If you have any Plumbing and Heating questions feel free to ask below, I'll do my best to help out, I'll be online as much as I can.

As the questions come in I'll try to remember to highlight each answer with a reference, ie if its a shower answer I'll mark it as shower etc. You might find the answer to your question already posted below, scroll down and look for the reference in bold (black).

Dudess

That's great, Items. Cheers.

items

Dudess wrote: »

That's great, Items. Cheers.

No bother.

Mains water supply (turning off mains to reduce contamination risks)

First bit of advice I would like to give is the possibility of turning off your own water supply if you've been given notice of disruption to water service.

Some areas have been given a water notice but might find themselves having the mains water come back on unexpectedly. There is a list of possibility's as to why something like this could happen, also included in the list could be the possibility of that water being contaminated. Instead of going into the details I would suggest turning off your own supply if you have concerns over other household users possibly using the water that has returned unexpectedly.

The majority of households have a mains water stopcock located under the sink, it could be a large brass valve, a brass gate valve or a silver lever action valve. Brass valves (clockwise for off) Lever action valves (lever perpendicular to the valve/pipe for off).

I would personally do this myself if I was living in an effected area, it will do no harm, the only risk is possible valve seizure but its best to know about that now since the water is off as its something that requires attention anyway (in case you have to turn water off during emergency).

When you get notice that the water is back on you can open the valve.

I know people are desperate for water in the effected areas. This unexpected water could be seen as a benefit but unless you've been given notice that the waters safe its up to you to decide whats best.

items

If you are stuck for water, get your bin bags out. You can literally tuck them under any rainwater opening and gutter down pipe etc. Not to sure about drinking it but when it's raining it will save the trip for collecting toilet cistern water etc. Try and find a bag without any holes.

TanG411

items wrote: »

If you are stuck for water, get your bin bags out. You can literally tuck them under any rainwater opening and gutter down pipe etc. Not to sure about drinking it but when it's raining it will save the trip for collecting toilet cistern water etc. Try and find a bag without any holes.

We used the wheelie bin for this. Then transferred the water from that into a basin which we could leave next to the toilet.

irobmw

Someone told me I should open the tap outside (ie hose tap connected to mains)a tiny bit in case the water comes back on to release any air in they system in case of pressure build up.

Good idea/Bad idea?

PS: thanks for all the insight tips so far!

items

irobmw wrote: »

Someone told me I should open the tap outside (ie hose tap connected to mains)a tiny bit in case the water comes back on to release any air in they system in case of pressure build up.

Good idea/Bad idea?

PS: thanks for all the insight tips so far!

How to prepare for the return of mains water supply

No Bother.

You could do that to rid any air and dirt partials from entering the system, expect all sorts to come out of the main line when its been emptied. I doubt you will be there ready and waiting the moment water returns even tho you might have a tap open, be prepared for some blockages, first place to check would be your attic tank. If the flow is poor and slow to fill the tank it could be due to small stones etc in the ballcock. You might have to take it apart to remove them or call a plumber.

Another tip, expect air locks in your system, both hot and cold storage. I might write up a separate bit of info later to give advice on how to remove them.

irobmw

items wrote: »

No Bother.

You could do that to rid any air and dirt partials from entering the system, expect all sorts to come out of the main line when its been emptied. I doubt you will be there ready and waiting the moment water returns even tho you might have a tap open, be prepared for some blockages, first place to check would be your attic tank. If the flow is poor and slow to fill the tank it could be due to small stones etc in the ballcock. You might have to take it apart to remove them or call a plumber.

Another tip, expect air locks in your system, both hot and cold storage. I might write up a separate bit of info later to give advice on how to remove them.

My attic tanks and the copper tank still full so unless the levels dropped a bit hopefully can keep dirt etc out of those and avoid later problems.

The council should really put a 'what to do when your water's back' article on the city website at some stage? Its obvious people would benefit from some expert info!

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irobmw wrote: »

My attic tanks and the copper tank still full so unless the levels dropped a bit hopefully can keep dirt etc out of those and avoid later problems.

The council should really put a 'what to do when your water's back' article on the city website at some stage? Its obvious people would benefit from some expert info!

How to prevent possible air locks once water main supply returns

Glad to hear the tanks are full, try to keep the water level just above the tank outlet that way you wont get air locks later. Having the tanks full will make no difference to the ballcock etc it may still become blocked/limited when mains water comes back on.

I have contacted the Cork Co Councilor posting on boards.ie seeing if I can help out (free of charge) on the ground as it will be needed, will see how it goes. I am not sure if they will give advice on "what to do when the waters back" as it can get complicated.

irobmw

I'll try to pass on any tips as much as I can around the place.

Is there anything that can be done to prevent blockages in the ballcock btw?

items

irobmw wrote: »

I'll try to pass on any tips as much as I can around the place.

Is there anything that can be done to prevent blockages in the ballcock btw?

How to prevent possible blockages brought on by returned previously dormant water main supply

Here's what I would do, lets say Co Council gave me a notice water was going off, I would turn off my own supply at the house. When the Co Council gives me notice the water is coming back on I would still leave my supply closed. Before I turn it back on, I would leave it a while, a few hours, I would check next doors supply before mine (sneaky I know). If you give it a bit of time before you turn it back on, that time might seem minimal compared to the time fixing all the problems etc if you rushed into it.

For everyday use its hard enough to prevent them, you could place a filter/strainer before the ballcock if blockages happen regularly.

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Taken from Cllr Laura Mc Gonigle's website.

We have just received a briefing from the officials in City regarding the water supply shortage in the City. The Lee water works pumping valves have burst i.e. the valve that prevents contaminated water entering the water supply have burst and our supply is now contaminated. If you have water in your taps, this water is completely safe to drink. This water however, is coming from the reservoir and will eventually run out.

Information on water supply contamination (the possibility of contamination)

If you have water coming out of your taps you would want to be extremely careful and know exactly where the supply is coming from.

Seems like some areas are supplied from a local reservoir and that water is about to run out, even though its stated the water is completely safe I don't know how they (Co Council) can be certain of it. Unless they have tested the supplies?

When we have flooding its possible the sewer systems back up and come out into the environment and mix with the flood waters, we've got leaking underground water mains all over Ireland so its not impossible for the flooded water mixed with the sewage to seep back underground and make it's way into the leaking water mains. Given the excessive flooding and the possible problems with the sewers I feel its worth mentioning, the chances are unlikely but still, always safety first.

If in doubt boil the water first.

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Ensure safe drinking water after a flood. (Private water well)

If your well has been flooded, you need to disinfect it to protect your family's health. Floodwaters carry bacteria, viruses, and parasites, as well as chemicals. Diseases such as dysentery, hepatitis and giardiasis can be transmitted through private wells that have been contaminated by floodwaters. Chemicals such as pesticides, solvents and petroleum-based products also pose health risks.

Sediment that enters your well during flooding can cause problems for the pump and plumbing systems. Bacteria that cause a rotten egg smell and stain plumbing fixtures may also be introduced during flooding.

You can read more here http://www.extension.org/pages/Ensure_Safe_Drinking_Water_After_a_Flood

The above information may not relate to Cork City but if you know of anyone in the other flooded areas (family) it would be good to pass on the information especially if those people you know are using a private water well in a flooded area.

Spindle

We have got a water supply back, the council said it cant be guaranteed, and that it is low pressure.

Would it be safe to use an Electric Shower, with the low pressure? Also what would happen if the supply ran out when using the shower? Would you damage the shower?

Outkast_IRE

Spindle wrote: »

We have got a water supply back, the council said it cant be guaranteed, and that it is low pressure.

Would it be safe to use an Electric Shower, with the low pressure? Also what would happen if the supply ran out when using the shower? Would you damage the shower?

Is it a mains fed electric or fed from the tank ?
If its mains fed then i would only use it if you are sure the supply is consistent and is at a good pressure , pressure can be checked by turning on kitchen sink cold and seeing if its weak or strong . If the supply were to go during a shower there may be a risk of burning or the shower damaging itself by running dry.(not worth it unless your sure)

If its tank fed electric check if your tank in attic is full , then have a very quick shower .

Spindle

Thanks Outkast_IRE, it is mains fed, so wont go near the shower for now, as the pressure is not great and also the supply is coming and going At least the tank is filling so we can flush the toilet, who know there was so much joy in flushing a toilet

Outkast_IRE

Spindle wrote: »

Thanks Outkast_IRE, it is mains fed, so wont go near the shower for now, as the pressure is not great and also the supply is coming and going At least the tank is filling so we can flush the toilet, who know there was so much joy in flushing a toilet

If your tank is filling and your desperate enough buy one of those shower heads with the joint hose you slip over hot and cold taps , if your tank in attic is full you can safely heat hot water if there is water coming out the hot tap.
Just be sure if heating with immersion to turn it off afterwards .
either that or go for a swim and shower there afterwards.

Should also mention with the inconsistent water supply debris may be loosened in the supply pipes which could make their way to the shower if you used it , safer to find a alternative for now.

items

Spindle wrote: »

We have got a water supply back, the council said it cant be guaranteed, and that it is low pressure.

Would it be safe to use an Electric Shower, with the low pressure? Also what would happen if the supply ran out when using the shower? Would you damage the shower?

Electric shower (low pressure)

I see Outkast has looked after you, may as well throw in my two cents.

Most modern electric showers will turn them selves off if they sense the water pressure is to low, you might see a red indication light on the shower unit. There is a wide range of different electric showers which have a wide range of different water supplies. Without being there the best advice I can give is not to rush into having a shower as soon as the water comes back on, give a little time for your attic tanks to fill up first and before having a shower, run off the cold water (bathroom) to try and move any debris away from the shower.

Enjoy your shower .

Just noticed your shower may be a mains fed shower, defo take your time and try to draw out some of the mains water before having a shower, the shower filter may become blocked/restricted etc, run out the mains at the kitchen sink until it runs clean, then have your shower, watch out for the red indication light for low pressure (if it has one). If the pressure is too low it might not work. Another tip, if the shower is working under low pressure, don't go mad with the heat, turn it just up enough to make the water warm, this will save the immersion/motor etc from damage due to low incoming pressure.

cupple

I live on the boreenmanna road and my cold water tap has come back on since 11 this am (pressuse is good) .. Only my cold taps are working downstairs and the toilet cistern downstairs is refilling too... No Hot taps are working downstairs or any other taps or cisterns upstairs. Does anyone else have this problem? Could it be an airlock?? Any answer appreicated ..

Outkast_IRE

cupple wrote: »

I live on the boreenmanna road and my cold water tap has come back on since 11 this am (pressuse is good) .. Only my cold taps are working downstairs and the toilet cistern downstairs is refilling too... No Hot taps are working downstairs or any other taps or cisterns upstairs. Does anyone else have this problem? Could it be an airlock?? Any answer appreicated ..

Sounds like a usual air lock easiest place to start is the place where cold taps are working and hot isnt .
If there is no hot coming out kitchen sink then try this a few times ( it could take a few times if its a airlock.

I presume its a mono kitchen sink tap like usual so
Open hot side of tap fully and leave open .
place you hand firmly over the spout so it blocks it and put pressure to block it .
Open cold side as much as you can whilst blocking spout firmly with palm or thumb or whatever you find best . Leave cold run for 30 seconds to a min then take hand off spout close cold side and see if the hot will stay running it may take a few goes .

For bathrooms etc see if that gets either hot or cold goin in them and repeat if there are monotaps if they are seperate hot and cold taps get a short bit of hose and force it over one spout to the other.
Any questions just ask

items

I have just seen a question coming in, water back on to some extent, cold water for toilets etc but no water coming out the hot taps. If you have no water coming out the hot taps in this case it could be a possible air lock, here are some ways to remove air locks (hot water).

Hot water air locks for households with a hot water cylinder.
The last two notes mentioned can also be used to remedy cold water air locks (cold water storage pipe requires finding)

Kitchen sink remedy.
First thing I would do is look at the kitchen tap, if its a mono tap (two taps one spout) its possible to use the mains water to drive the air out of the hot water system. With both taps off, place your hand over the spout blocking it completely. Open the hot tap then open the mains (cold) tap. What happens here is the pressure of the mains water is enough to travel back up the hot water side and force any air out via the hot water cylinder vent. This will only work with a vented hot water system, mono tap at kitchen sink and enough water pressure to drive it out. It's hard to give a time on how long you may need to spend driving the mains back up the hot side, its depends on the size of the plumbing system and the amount of water in it, keep trying until you find a constant flow of water coming out the hot side. Make sure you close all hot taps before attempting this.

Hot press/hot water cylinder remedy .
If you have none of the above it is still possible to remove hot water air locks. Go to your hot press, locate the valve that is filling the cylinder (on the pipe which connects to the lowest point to the cylinder) with a bucket or bowel etc and a spanner (1" or 3/4"). Turn off your cylinder supply valve wheel head (clockwise) or lever (perpendicular to pipe) With the bucket close by disconnect the bottom side of the valve (make sure it is off) when its disconnected open the valve and let the water drain into the bucket until you have a full flow of water, give it a little time as sometimes you might see water then air then water etc, give it some time. Once you are happy with a full flow reconnect everything, check for leaks and away you go.

Attic remedy.
If you cant find a valve at the cylinder you might have to go up into the attic and find the pipe that fills the cylinder, their should be only three 1" or 3/4" pipes (modern house) in the attic (two connecting to the bottom of the attic tank 1" or 3/4") one of those is for filling the hot water cylinder, its up to you to find it. At the furthest point away from the attic tank try to find a fitting (on the pipe feeding the cylinder) that you can undo in the same form as above, allow the water to have a good flow into a bucket before reconnecting and again check for leaks after you are done. Possible risk to ceiling damage if you are not extremely careful with this one.

A Plumbers warning.
This stuff is really for Plumbers, I wouldn't normally give out this kind of information but due to the situation I feel its best. If you have any doubts with attempting any of this, don't do it, seek experienced help. I have to give another warning also, you may find you have some problems with seized valves when attempting the above, its good to know now as its something that will need to be fixed.

items

cupple wrote: »

I live on the boreenmanna road and my cold water tap has come back on since 11 this am (pressuse is good) .. Only my cold taps are working downstairs and the toilet cistern downstairs is refilling too... No Hot taps are working downstairs or any other taps or cisterns upstairs. Does anyone else have this problem? Could it be an airlock?? Any answer appreicated ..

I've given you info on how to remove air locks on the hot side, I didn't realize your upstairs cold is having problems, again this could be air locks, have a look at the last two in the notes above you can do that for cold also, you'll have to find the cold valve in the hot press (running straight from hot press ceiling to floor with minimal fittings other than a valve) or find the cold supply pipe in the attic and carry on as mentioned in the above post.

cupple

items wrote: »

I have just seen a question coming in, water back on to some extent, cold water for toilets etc but no water coming out the hot taps. If you have no water coming out the hot taps in this case it could be a possible air lock, here are some ways to remove air locks (hot water).

Hot water air locks for households with a hot water cylinder.
The last two notes mentioned can also be used to remedy cold water air locks (cold water storage pipe requires finding)

Kitchen sink remedy.
First thing I would do is look at the kitchen tap, if its a mono tap (two taps one spout) its possible to use the mains water to drive the air out of the hot water system. With both taps off, place your hand over the spout blocking it completely. Open the hot tap then open the mains (cold) tap. What happens here is the pressure of the mains water is enough to travel back up the hot water side and force any air out via the hot water cylinder vent. This will only work with a vented hot water system, mono tap at kitchen sink and enough water pressure to drive it out. It's hard to give a time on how long you may need to spend driving the mains back up the hot side, its depends on the size of the plumbing system and the amount of water in it, keep trying until you find a constant flow of water coming out the hot side. Make sure you close all hot taps before attempting this.

Hot press/hot water cylinder remedy .
If you have none of the above it is still possible to remove hot water air locks. Go to your hot press, locate the valve that is filling the cylinder (on the pipe which connects to the lowest point to the cylinder) with a bucket or bowel etc and a spanner (1" or 3/4"). Turn off your cylinder supply valve wheel head (clockwise) or lever (perpendicular to pipe) With the bucket close by disconnect the bottom side of the valve (make sure it is off) when its disconnected open the valve and let the water drain into the bucket until you have a full flow of water, give it a little time as sometimes you might see water then air then water etc, give it some time. Once you are happy with a full flow reconnect everything, check for leaks and away you go.

Attic remedy.
If you cant find a valve at the cylinder you might have to go up into the attic and find the pipe that fills the cylinder, their should be only three 1" or 3/4" pipes (modern house) in the attic (two connecting to the bottom of the attic tank 1" or 3/4") one of those is for filling the hot water cylinder, its up to you to find it. At the furthest point away from the attic tank try to find a fitting (on the pipe feeding the cylinder) that you can undo in the same form as above, allow the water to have a good flow into a bucket before reconnecting and again check for leaks after you are done. Possible risk to ceiling damage if you are not extremely careful with this one.

A Plumbers warning.
This stuff is really for Plumbers, I wouldn't normally give out this kind of information but due to the situation I feel its best. If you have any doubts with attempting any of this, don't do it, seek experienced help. I have to give another warning also, you may find you have some problems with seized valves when attempting the above, its good to know now as its something that will need to be fixed.

thanks so much for advice . we checked the valve on cylinder and opened fully with spanner and nothing came out of cylider it appears to be empty, which leaves me to believe that their is no water in tank in attic either .. off to check this next .

Since house is 3 story, i think their might not be enough pressure to fill up tankin attic

Off to get ladder now to climb up to attic..

thanks so much for advice

items

cupple wrote: »

thanks so much for advice . we checked the valve on cylinder and opened fully with spanner and nothing came out of cylider it appears to be empty, which leaves me to believe that their is no water in tank in attic either .. off to check this next .

Since house is 3 story, i think their might not be enough pressure to fill up tankin attic

Off to get ladder now to climb up to attic..

thanks so much for advice

Hot water cylinder information

There is more than enough info above so you might have to come back and go over it. Remember the water comes out the top of the cylinder so its full, you might have no supply going to it. After a while when tanks fill up it might come naturally, if not you may have to do some of the above, on both hot and cold water storage.

Best of luck.

rebel.ranter

I have one for items if you can help.
I have a SIME closed system gas boiler. It keeps losing pressure, I have to top it up every day. I am not sure it is the fault of the pressure relief valve, I can see that once the pressure gauge hits 3 bar water comes out the overflow pipe out the back of house until it settles down to a lower pressure. Once the heat goes off & left off for a while the pressure goes to zero. I thought it might be the pressure relief valve until I saw it only kicking in a 3 bar, it coud still be the cause but not sure.
Any ideas?

Outkast_IRE

rebel.ranter wrote: »

I have one for items if you can help.
I have a SIME closed system gas boiler. It keeps losing pressure, I have to top it up every day. I am not sure it is the fault of the pressure relief valve, I can see that once the pressure gauge hits 3 bar water comes out the overflow pipe out the back of house until it settles down to a lower pressure. Once the heat goes off & left off for a while the pressure goes to zero. I thought it might be the pressure relief valve until I saw it only kicking in a 3 bar, it coud still be the cause but not sure.
Any ideas?

Thats a safety valve that goes off at 3 bar , its only meant to go off if for some reason boiler keeps heating water to dangerous extent and real pressure sets its off.
You should never ever ever have your system up to 3 bar , when you fill 1 - 1.5 is more than enough depending on boiler type check manufactuers book or website for a defo number .
You may of caused a number of issue .
Those safety valves once they go off once or twice they are usually pretty bad at keeping in even normal pressures afterward so that may need replacing .

You would lose pressure pretty quickly every time if one of these was to leak .
The pressure guage will fluctuate up when heating goes on and down when the system cools down .

Check the safety valve and see is it leaking at normal pressures

items

rebel.ranter wrote: »

I have one for items if you can help.
I have a SIME closed system gas boiler. It keeps losing pressure, I have to top it up every day. I am not sure it is the fault of the pressure relief valve, I can see that once the pressure gauge hits 3 bar water comes out the overflow pipe out the back of house until it settles down to a lower pressure. Once the heat goes off & left off for a while the pressure goes to zero. I thought it might be the pressure relief valve until I saw it only kicking in a 3 bar, it coud still be the cause but not sure.
Any ideas?

Gas Boiler problem (High pressure leading to safety valve blow out)

Sorry to hear, thats a strange one.

Most boilers, for safety, release water if the pressure reaches above 3 to 3.5 bar, once the pressure lowers it should stop releasing water. But on yours the boiler returns to some form after lowering pressure from 3 to 3.5 bar. After a while the pressure drops completely, possibly below the required (1 bar ) when it does the boiler wont come on so you have to top it up again?

If this is the case maybe you do have a faulty safety valve and its not safe to use your boiler without a safety valve working correctly, you might have to call in an expert. Their should never be a case where your boiler is topped up above the maximum 3 to 3.5 bar so first thing for you to do is find out why its filling to that pressure.

If its filling from the mains by an APRV (automatic pressure release/restrict valve) the high pressure problem could be due to the mains water madness that happening down there. If not how is it being filled? If you are filling it manually don't let it fill to high pressure, 1.5 to 2 bar is more than enough.

Its hard to tell from here, fill it back up and try to find out where you are losing the water, keep watch at the safety outlet pipe to see if it continue to release water.

Your going to have to try and find out where the water is being lost as best you can.

Defo needs attention from a Board Gas agent and remember the more time a heating system spends taking in fresh water the less time its going to last, it will corrode itself from the inside (boiler heat exchanger normally first)

Hope the info helps in some way.

items

Back in a few hours.

rebel.ranter

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

You should never ever ever have your system up to 3 bar , when you fill 1 - 1.5 is more than enough

Hey, thanks for the response, I normally only top it up as far as 1 bar, there is a little blue section on the gauge showing where is safe.
From what you say the boiler may be heating up too much, there is a dial on the front of the boiler with what looks like a radiator on it, I might chance turning that down.
I am happy enough that the water is only coming out of the relief outlet pipe outside the house. I had planned on calling out someone but just wanted to see if there was something simple wrong. I also ordered a PRV online on Saturday for my type of boiler, I was going to fit this myself, I am handy enough at DIY. I reckoned that this would be faulty as a result of all the pressure relieving it has had to do in recent days.
rgds,
rr

Outkast_IRE

rebel.ranter wrote: »

Hey, thanks for the response, I normally only top it up as far as 1 bar, there is a little blue section on the gauge showing where is safe.
From what you say the boiler may be heating up too much, there is a dial on the front of the boiler with what looks like a radiator on it, I might chance turning that down.
I am happy enough that the water is only coming out of the relief outlet pipe outside the house. I had planned on calling out someone but just wanted to see if there was something simple wrong. I also ordered a PRV online on Saturday for my type of boiler, I was going to fit this myself, I am handy enough at DIY. I reckoned that this would be faulty as a result of all the pressure relieving it has had to do in recent days.
rgds,
rr

Im not quite sure on the regulations regarding the safety valves on gas boilers if its illegal or not for you to work on one . ITEMS may be able to clarify it for you im not familar with the regs .
Sure see what effect the new valve has anyway.

As far as i know the knob with the radiator pic over it shouldnt be able to cause the boiler to blow the safety

Vivara

We have had water back for a day now, yet our electric shower won't produce water, just makes a loud electrical noise as if we're damaging something.

Any ideas?

Thanks.