Degrees, grades, jobs, etc.

Breezer

I'm a 4th year medical student in UCD. For those of you not familiar with the new modularised system in UCD, to all intents and purposes 4th Med is the final med of a few years back, since it's now when you do all your Medicine, Surgery, and potentially also Paeds and Obs (we've already done ENT and Ophthalmology last year) and marks wise it counts for just over half the degree.

I had a pretty horrific MCQ in Medicine today, as did everyone else seemingly, but it's got me thinking about grades and how they might impact on my future career.

Basically I'm wondering what sort of marks do average newly qualified doctors come out with? From what I can gather, honours (which I assume means a First, as opposed to a 2.1 or 2.2, and was always treated as some kind of foreign concept by most of my tutors over the years) is still over 70%, but the pass mark is 50% as opposed to 40% for most other courses. I've been coming in around the 65 mark in most exams up till now, although based on today that could soon nosedive. Is over 60% considered good or should I be aiming higher?

And when does this all matter? I realise it may impact where (hopefully not 'if') I get a placement as an intern, or if I want a particular SHO rotation, but beyond that does your undergrad count for much, or is it superseded by other things fairly quickly?

Thanks for any help, and sorry for the long rambling post, I guess I'm still a bit shellshocked from earlier

imported_guy

im actully wondering the same thing, i know in america they are crazy about it, your grades stalk you for ever over there, along with your USMLE scores etc, when your applying for residency/fellowship atleast from what ive heard, i dont actully know about how important it is when getting a job, but basically good grades = good residency = good job (in most cases) so indirectly it always impacts it, and on your CV obviously it shows how dedicated you have been in your life etc

i'm a smiler

I am wondering the exact same thing! except in a different field - dentistry.

It's weird coming from secondary school where I used to almost always get 90% and above, to now in college getting in or around 65%.

Does anyone know what the average grade in medicine/dentistry etc is in their class ??

imported_guy

i'm a smiler wrote: »

I am wondering the exact same thing! except in a different field - dentistry.

It's weird coming from secondary school where I used to almost always get 90% and above, to now in college getting in or around 65%.

Does anyone know what the average grade in medicine/dentistry etc is in their class ??

well i dont know what college youre in but most work like this

70-100% = 1st class honours
60-69% = 2.1 honours degree
50-60% = 2.2 honours degree
40-50% = pass

in my college if you fail a subject in final year best you can get is a pass grade, and only the final year results count towards getting 1st/2nd class etc, im aware in medicine etc passing grades in exams are usually above 50%, so i dont know how youre college will award the degree etc.

Vorsprung

imported_guy wrote: »

im actully wondering the same thing, i know in america they are crazy about it, your grades stalk you for ever over there, along with your USMLE scores etc, when your applying for residency/fellowship atleast from what ive heard, i dont actully know about how important it is when getting a job, but basically good grades = good residency = good job (in most cases) so indirectly it always impacts it, and on your CV obviously it shows how dedicated you have been in your life etc

In UCD and I'm sure in the other colleges as well, they'll give you a typed explanation of the marking system in Ireland, which is useful if you're applying for US jobs.

At the end of the day, once you're past your first job, your grades don't mean that much, it comes down to references, previous experience, research, papers as well.

bythewoods

imported_guy wrote: »

well i dont know what college youre in but most work like this

70-100% = 1st class honours
60-69% = 2.1 honours degree
50-60% = 2.2 honours degree
40-50% = pass

in my college if you fail a subject in final year best you can get is a pass grade, and only the final year results count towards getting 1st/2nd class etc, im aware in medicine etc passing grades in exams are usually above 50%, so i dont know how youre college will award the degree etc.

I'm in Trinity, and we need 50% to pass. Unfortunately.

Echani

bythewoods wrote: »

I'm in Trinity, and we need 50% to pass. Unfortunately.

50% to pass in RCSI as well, >80% unheard of as in most Irish college degrees. As far as I'm aware it's the same pass mark in UCD.

Breezer

Thanks guys, but I think I've phrased myself badly, sorry. I know the grade scale*, but I'm basically wondering what, in the field of medicine in Ireland, is considered an average grade vs a good grade, where this matters in terms of careers, and at what point it tends to become moot, having been replaced as Vorsprung said by references, experience, research etc.

Vorsprung, by "your first job" do you mean your intern year or your first SHO placement? Thanks.

*For reference for anyone who looks at this and is curious, the grade scale in UCD is:
> 70% = 1st
65-69% (approx) = 2.1
60-64% (approx) = 2.2
50-59% (approx) = Pass
< 50% = Fail

TinTin09

I think its
70% + = 1.1
60-69% = 2.1
50-59% = 2.2
49% down = Pass
If the pass rate is 40%

I have never heard of a 2.1 being 65-69%

medicinegirl

I think what Breezer is describing is the norm for most (possibly all?) medical degrees in Ireland
I think what TinTin is describing is the norm for most other degrees (except possibly dentistry-open to correction there)

As regards when it starts becoming important, I'm not sure

imported_guy

Breezer wrote: »

> 70% = 1st
65-69% (approx) = 2.1
60-64% (approx) = 2.2
50-59% (approx) = Pass
< 50% = Fail

is this just medicine or all the subjects?, and does pass by compensation apply?

medicinegirl

In a medical degree, it would be for all the subjects and not just medicine-that's how it is in my course anyway

Pass by compensation for us only applies if you get over 45-50% in a 5 credit module and you can then compensate if you have higher marks in a 10, 15 or 20 credit module (out of 60 credits total) You can only compensate one subject per year and you can only compensate a 5 credit module, not anything higher

Don't know how it works in all the other colleges

Breezer

imported_guy wrote: »

is this just medicine or all the subjects?, and does pass by compensation apply?

All subjects in the last 2 years i.e. those that count towards your degree. No passing by compensation.

Guys I appreciate that you want to find out about grade scales but my original question is something I'm a bit anxious about and I really don't want the thread to get derailed. If you want to ask a different question would you mind starting another thread (and I may even be able to help you ).

med2010

Dear Breezer,
Im a final med in UCD and a vincents student. Our class ranking have been given to us so we've a fairly good idea of what a "good" grade is. Obviously our class grades colud be different to yours but i know that to be in the top 10 percent you'd want to be on a GPA of about 3.7. (ie a first) top 20% of the class is about GPA3.5. Top 30% about GPA3.4 top 40% about GPA3.3 top 50% is around GPA3.15. I dont actually know what the ranking are after that cos I cant remember them im afraid. It does mean that about half of our class will end up with honors degrees which is pretty much the way it always has been (so maybe modularisation hasnt made that much difference at all!)

With regards to intern posts, it looks like to get a job in vincents we'll need a GPA of around 3.4 or above and a bit lower in the mater (just cos they've more jobs- no disrespect to the mater!) then again its really all up in the air cos we've no idea how many non UCD students will apply for vincents and mater hospitals so in reality it cound be higher. Also with all the limerick class graduating next year UCD will lose its "affiliation" with with Limerick hospitals so we'll lose those jobs.

The above rankings are based just on our "stage 5" grades. ie the whole of res year and NOT our final year results. I know your class could have different marks but its probably pretty close id say.

hope that helps

ORLY?

med2010 wrote: »

Also with all the limerick class graduating next year UCD will lose its "affiliation" with with Limerick hospitals so we'll lose those jobs.

By jobs do you mean intern spots? They will be "gone" from this year on as intern centralisation will open all spots in all hospitals up to everyone. The system is going to be like the CAO where students submit a list of preferences and get assigned a place on merit.

med2010

Yes orly we all know that. I'm pretty sure there isn't a final med in the country who doesn't know about the new system thats coming in this year.

However as it currently stands there are some limerick jobs linked with mater jobs for part of the year so if breezer is a mater student who wanted to apply to the mater for internship the jobs linked with limerick will be rearranged as of next year.
Breezer on a positive note though your class doesn't have any post grads. i know we only have 13 and I'm sure there are loads of post grads graduating in your year around the country but surely theres less of a chance that they'll apply to ucd hospitals than the actual ucd post grads.

med2010

ps breezer,
"orly" is a postgrad limerick student. just keep that in mind!

ORLY?

med2010 wrote: »

ps breezer,
"orly" is a postgrad limerick student. just keep that in mind!

What?

Can you explain what you mean by a job being "linked" with Limerick? What I was explaining is that there aren't going to be any jobs to "lose" from 2011 because they'll all have been "lost" from July 2010. Any UCD/Mater student looking to apply for one of the internships in the Mater linked with Limerick or not will have to compete with students from UCC, RCSI, NUIG and Trinity.

ORLY?

med2010 wrote: »

Also with all the limerick class graduating next year UCD will lose its "affiliation" with with Limerick hospitals so we'll lose those jobs.

No need for the attitude. I read the document weeks ago. It just seems you didn't quite know how the system was going to work, in spite of your protestations of the opposite. Next years new Limerick graduates mean nothing in regards to the number of posts ringfenced for UCD students. And as for it not concerning me since I'm not in final year? You really think this doesn't concern all current med students?

chocfan

Med2010, I think you're being a tiny bit harsh to be honest!

I'm also in Final Med and think Orly and every other med student in the country has a right to discuss the new system if they want. It obviously concerns everybody to some degree-we may be the ones affected by it this year but it's going to be relevant to all med students.