Super Casino - Super Madness???

Biggins

So the two Dundalk politicians might have helped to pull off a coup for their constituents?
The news about the making of a new complex which will include a super casino is frightening the heck out of me.
Lovely to get the ski end of things, etc but the mega gambling that will go on is worrying.
Am I right to be worried?

Ambitious plans have been unveiled for a €430m ski, casino and all-weather tourism complex near the border.
Developers claim about 1,500 jobs will be created at the Altitude snow sports and leisure centre just outside Dundalk over the next seven years.
Investors are also banking on the Government loosening gambling laws, clearing the way for a casino with the entire complex potentially attracting six million people a year.

Sam Curran, one of the developers, said the centre will be built in phases with the ski facility one of the first to open.
"We've done very extensive work over the last 30 months to fine-tune what we include in our plans," he said.
"We are completely satisfied that the mix of different elements we propose will prove a compelling attraction, not only to the regional and national market across the island of Ireland but also to overseas visitors.

"The elements we will provide are not available at any other single site in Ireland or the UK while many of the individual parts also have no direct comparison here at present."
The development is planned for a 29 acre site just off the M1 Dublin-Belfast motorway at Dowdallshill, Dundalk.
It will include ski and nursery slopes; a 100-plus bed family hostel; 110,000-sq ft indoor concert arena; cinema, tenpin bowling and children's zone; 40,000-sq ft surf and swim centre; sports and leisure stores, restaurants and bars. Later phases will include additional hotel accommodation and the international casino.

Developers claim it will create 1,198 full-time and 388 casual direct jobs. It is hoped work can begin early next year with the first attractions due to open in the first half of 2011 and other phases to be introduced over the next five years.

Source: http://www.independent.ie/national-news/new-complex-could-create-1500-jobs-1951652.html

Similar report from the Metro:

hellboy99

Do people have money to go mega gambling ? I do agree with you that it's a bad idea.

Biggins

hellboy99 wrote: »

Do people have money to go mega gambling ? I do agree with you that it's a bad idea.

Although it will be a few years before the casino part gets up and running (the longer the better as far as I'm concerned), I hope and prey that some of those in bad debt, don't see gambling in this place as a source of miracle way out!
"O' we might just get lucky!"

I've worked in casinos, big ones and seriously, got sick of the sight of very poor folk blowing their rent, food, heating money, etc.
I seen up close and personal big Louth builder contractors wifes blowing thousands within any one month. Sometimes in one/two nights, their staff wages.
I seen single mothers, young and in their 40's blowing every last penny at the time, leaving in tears and in suicidal depressions many a time.
Seen drug pushers looking for cash filled targets to rob in such one place confined bountiful ready made zones, pedo's hunting around like hawks and the poorest of the poor looking for a way out and only with deeper depression due to their growing addicting actions, making their debt hole even bigger!

I eventually left the business completely because I couldn't stand to work there and see so many fall apart at the seams.
I witnessed marriages breaking up right in front of me, serious numerous family fights between husband and wife, mother and son, etc...

I mean jeasus, I'm all for creating jobs and incentives for the areas but in some ways I fear, this new casino horro of a place will be one step forwards and two steps back!

Just what the fcuk is the idiots on planning boards thinking!!!

We're NOT going to all gamble ourselves out of a recession - the only winners will be the owners and the government in more raked in tax cash.
Greed heaped upon more greed! Its damn disgrace that the casino part is going a head!

hellboy99

Biggins wrote: »

Its damn disgrace that the casino part is going a head!

There's no need for it at all, it will create more problems than good that's for sure. I seen a mate of mine years ago lose his house, his wife and kids due to gambling, it's not nice.

Biggins

hellboy99 wrote: »

There's no need for it at all, it will create more problems than good that's for sure. I seen a mate of mine years ago lose his house, his wife and kids due to gambling, it's not nice.

In one case I remember a (40+) lady from Slane had a seven year old daughter. The woman was a single mother coping on her on cos' the husband had left, had enough, couldn't cope with the loss of money, home, etc.
The woman was then moved into a near by council house with the daughter.
such was her addiction that she used to take the child out of school early and bring her to one particular place where there was gambling and would get the girl to sit quietly in a corner while mammy would hit the machines.
This went on for some time till she was nabbed and banned.
She just moved onto another place. Meanwhile there was no money for Christmas presents that particular year, let alone basic foodstuff for the child so relatives had to buy stuff (nothing expensive, they feared the mother would sell it) for the girl themselves - and not give the mother anything.

Sadly I heard eventually by keeping in contact with the family that the mother actually went and sold off the cooker in the council house to get money to gamble.
That was the last straw for some in the family and reported the whole mess to the authorities and welfare for the sake of the child.
Watching just that one episode was over a period of time was depressing. I felt so sorry for the child and could have killed the mother.

Jeasus, this mega casino is going to create hell on Earth for a lot of families!!! :mad:

indiewindy

Apart from the casino element, this idea was first proposed a few years ago. What the people behind it fail to understand is that the 02 in Dublin and the odyessy in Belfast negate the need for the concert arena,how on earth are you going to compete with them. 1 cinema in Dundalk and another one under construction at the moment, 10 pin bowling already here and not exactly setting the world on fire.

In_tuition

People won't gamble more because there is a super-casino.

It would attract recreational gamblers, like yourself, out for a night out with work colleagues, friends party etc, spending whatever money you can afford to part with, if you have it to part. If you don't then you won't gamble. Even if you decide to splash €10 on blackjack that's a victory for the casino, if everyone who comes through their doors does the same they'll be happy.

A person who gambles now and has an issue with it, will find a way to gamble if he/she wants to. The prime example is internet gaming. They don't need and most likely would not frequent a super-casino.

I am certain any super-casino that begins won't be seeking the degenerate gamblers from the region. They will have their small contingent of 'big players' who can afford to risk their stake but their target market will be joe soap working his 9-5 and having a bit of craic at the odd weekend during the year with his mates.

You will also get stag/hen parties from across the sea heading over for the weekend to have a wager and party in the casino atmosphere, staying in local hotels, drinking in local bars, buying local foods.

Personally find it a fantastic idea with the prospect of creating thousands of jobs and bringing money into the local economy, which we know is badly needed.

Don't really see how it's a problem to be honest?

Surely if you're going to blow all your money gambling, it only helps that you'll do it locally?

And if you can't control yourself, a casino isn't the best place to go in the first place? Hardly the casino's fault?

SDTimeout

Deleted User wrote: »

Don't really see how it's a problem to be honest?

Surely if you're going to blow all your money gambling, it only helps that you'll do it locally?

And if you can't control yourself, a casino isn't the best place to go in the first place? Hardly the casino's fault?

That's a BS ignorant reply i'm sorry.

So a person can bankrupt his family and make it a crap life for his kids. But sure he did it locally for the economy! Fair play to him.

" If you can't control yourself " Jesus, maybe you don't know that gambling is addictive. The whole reason people land themselves into it neck high is because they can't control it and are addicted they will go there in search of a win.

My uncle was fairly wrecked with gambling, we're talking big big losses and then attempts to reclaim them. I only picked up from what my brother told me but it's an awful thing to get hooked on and after i done a fluke lucky football bet one day i blew the winnings trying to get more. It put me off it thankfully

I agree with an above poster that with modern tech as it is, Internet gambling has done alot. The people who go to a place like this in my opinion won't be chronic gamblers like that. It will be lads on a night out sort of thing.

Then again i'm 17 now and this can only be good for me in a few years with the jobs and that so. :pac:

Smokecloak

A Super Casino would need to attract rich people into it from everywhere, people with millions and billions. They don,t care if they win or lose, They,r loaded anyway. It would hardly stay open long if it was just getting people from the town in, to throw their wages or social welfare cheques at it. I,m thinking of a real Casino here. Creating all those jobs, of course has to be a good thing.

In_tuition

Smokecloak wrote: »

A Super Casino would need to attract rich people into it from everywhere, people with millions and billions.

This isn't the movies

It rarely happens in Vegas, if you are gambling millions in a casino anywhere in the world, whether it be Monaco, Macau or Vegas, you don't do it in the high-rollers room. You have your own private suite with your name engraved into a craps table for instance. Craps is where the biggest money lies in a casino.

This super casino can offer that on the side if they wish to potential customers, we'll never know anything about it.

This super casino would attract what I said it my previous post.

Large scale dining options and entertainment is another avenue where they would seek to draw in people.

They want the public in for a couple of hours, to entertain them and hopefully they part with money in the gaming area, the bars or head there for a meal. They are not seeking Mr X who has €50,000 of his savings to spin up, well they are but they are few and far between, you get my drift.

LOTTOWINNER

Smokecloak wrote: »

A Super Casino would need to attract rich people into it from everywhere, people with millions and billions. They don,t care if they win or lose, They,r loaded anyway. It would hardly stay open long if it was just getting people from the town in, to throw their wages or social welfare cheques at it. I,m thinking of a real Casino here. Creating all those jobs, of course has to be a good thing.

I couldn't agree more! just wondering do you have any involvement in the industry already? I don't expect an answer!but with a name like smokecloak!!

phantom_lord

The casinos in Drogheda and Dundalk aren't exactly doing great, so I can't imagine a super casino having much of a success, nevermind the rest of it. Haven't we a bunch of there developments announced and nothing has ever come of any of them.

Sleipnir

I also worked in a Casino for around 5 years (and not a fancy one by a long shot) and saw all the dregs of society and the old people who gambled because they had nothing else to do really. People begging to be barred and then telling you to "**** off" when you reminded them when they came in again, people crying because they've just gambled their kids futures away. However the owners made a lot of money and the garda who used to put his hand in the till did alright too I suppose.

I like the way there's no knackers hanging around in their "artist's impression".
No drug pushers, kids left to fend for themselves, old people eating yet another burger or curry, kids with knifes threatening the staff.
It looks like it could be a museum or a university.

The reality that a casino brings, in this country anyway, is far different.

Having said that, I doubt it will happen. The developers just want to get the planning so they have a possibility of selling the land for more than they bought it for.

In_tuition

Sleipnir wrote: »

I also worked in a Casino for around 5 years (and not a fancy one by a long shot) and saw all the dregs of society and the old people who gambled because they had nothing else to do really. People begging to be barred and then telling you to "**** off" when you reminded them when they came in again, people crying because they've just gambled their kids futures away.

Hardly call The Whitworth a casino

Only kidding

SDTimeout

SDTimeout wrote: »

That's a BS ignorant reply i'm sorry.

So a person can bankrupt his family and make it a crap life for his kids. But sure he did it locally for the economy! Fair play to him.

" If you can't control yourself " Jesus, maybe you don't know that gambling is addictive. The whole reason people land themselves into it neck high is because they can't control it and are addicted they will go there in search of a win.

My uncle was fairly wrecked with gambling, we're talking big big losses and then attempts to reclaim them. I only picked up from what my brother told me but it's an awful thing to get hooked on and after i done a fluke lucky football bet one day i blew the winnings trying to get more. It put me off it thankfully

Sorry to hear about your uncle. But neither Paddy Power nor Boyle's put a gun to his head and told him to gamble. He chose to.

Some people eat a lot, end up overweight. Some people drink a lot, end up a wreck. Some people do drugs, also end up a wreck.


Some people gamble, and end up broke.

You know the consequences before you go in. Assuming you're over 18, you're an adult, and can be held responsible for your actions.

My father used to bet on horses something serious. Ended up broke and in debt more times than i care to remember. It was HIS fault, not the horses, or the bookmaker's.


There will always be two sides of it, and of course lots of people will disagree with me, but my opinion is that if you can't control yourself gambling, then you shouldn't gamble. Being completely broke and losing everything once or twice should be enough of a warning for most (don't get me wrong, I know that's not always true, and theoretically speaking about something, and what actually happens in real life are two different things).

If someone does have a gambling addiction i feel for them. But I don't think a super casino is going to make much difference to them. It'd be harder to get to than a laptop in your house anyway, so i dont see the convenience factor. Judging by its surroundings, it'll be aimed at recreational use. Nights out, for a laugh, etc.


But the thing is, with the net the way it is now, if someone is going to gamble everything away, they don't need a super casino to do it in. If they do choose to do it in one, then that's their choice and it won't do anyone any harm that it wouldnt have done anyway.

Sleipnir

In_tuition wrote: »

Hardly call The Whitworth a casino

Only kidding

We called it the "life casino" - Lose it all!

positron

Just wondering hows the hundreds of gambling places in every nooks and corners any different to this super casino with respect to wrecking families? Is there a reason why someone who could end up addicted in super casino wouldn't or couldn't get addicted to existing book makers around the country?

Should we discontinue Galway races?

Smokecloak

Okay In tuition, point taken. Saw too many movies. James Bond and all that.....To Lottowinner..No, I am not into gambling.....and I,m glad you like the name.........;-)

In_tuition

Smokecloak wrote: »

Okay In tuition, point taken. Saw too many movies. James Bond and all that.....

Kalashnikov_Kid

Sleipnir wrote: »

I also worked in a Casino for around 5 years (and not a fancy one by a long shot) and saw all the dregs of society and the old people who gambled because they had nothing else to do really. People begging to be barred and then telling you to "**** off" when you reminded them when they came in again, people crying because they've just gambled their kids futures away. However the owners made a lot of money and the garda who used to put his hand in the till did alright too I suppose.

I like the way there's no knackers hanging around in their "artist's impression".
No drug pushers, kids left to fend for themselves, old people eating yet another burger or curry, kids with knifes threatening the staff.
It looks like it could be a museum or a university.

The reality that a casino brings, in this country anyway, is far different.

With all due respect, quelle surprise? If a 'casino' is operating on questionable legal grounds, of course you are going to attract the dregs of society - anyone who has a buck basically. Owners know what they are at and don't give a sh1t. Same for 'lap-dancing' clubs in Ireland.

However, if casinos are fully legalised, licensed and regulated, it is their imperitive, by law, to protect the vulnerable. That means not letting people in or serving drunk people, or under-18s, full ID checks and fully advertised and legal voluntary exclusion policies. There are also extremely strict rules relating to staff conduct with customers - so I assure you there will be no-one waving the pensioners in on a Thursday morning. Also, security and surveillance is second to none - so criminals and fraudsters will be caught.

I am also sceptical of the term 'Super-Casino' used here - probably means a UK chain like Gala or Grosvenor or a casino-style you see in London. In which case, all of the above regulations would apply. This is of course presuming that the Irish government regulate the industry to the accepted standard.

There have been interesting accounts here from people who have worked in the gambling industry. I have worked in both the gambling and licenced trades, worked for Paddy Power in Ireland and now work over here for Gala Coral, and in nightclubs in Ireland and UK, and I am of the view that alcohol is a consistently more dangerous addiction than gambling. And that includes getting locked every weekend - the only difference is that it is socially accepted here. And yet I have personally seen lives and relationships ruined as a result.

The same people who give out about Casinos could well also give out about restricted nightclub opening hours...

Also, from my experience in the UK and Ireland, gambling licence holders are just as strict, if not more so, on who they let in and serve on a daily basis and are definately in general more aware of the nature and legalities of what their customers get up to inside these venues.

amacachi

I see absolutely no problem with a gimmicky casino like this.

Madflah

Id hazard a guess that there are far more familys effected by alcohol than gambling (not suggesting it aint an issue) so we should close all the pubs in the country, while we are at it get rid of every chipper cause those fat kids are going to cost us a fortune one day. Put limiters of 50kmph on all vehicles cause speed kills too!! etc etc

MonkeyTennis

am i going a bit doolally here? A casino is only part of the equation. I think the whacking great ski slopes might just overshadow that part. Some people just want to see the negative in everything. If it went ahead it would be great for the town and firmly put Dundalk on the map.

The argument above is ridiculous, if a new pub opened would that increase alcoholism ??

If people want to bet they will bet.

Kalashnikov_Kid

MonkeyTennis wrote: »

am i going a bit doolally here? A casino is only part of the equation. I think the whacking great ski slopes might just overshadow that part. Some people just want to see the negative in everything. If it went ahead it would be great for the town and firmly put Dundalk on the map.

The argument above is ridiculous, if a new pub opened would that increase alcoholism ??

If people want to bet they will bet.

Hit the nail on the head there - I was back home 2 weeks ago and could literally count the number of jobs advertised - it really hit home how things have dried up. Basically Dundalk has a choice - build something interesting and positive like the above that will attract money and a very wide catchment area, or build another Tesco, Lidl etc... oh and it would mean some more real job prospects for young people like myself that have had to leave in recent times.

There are modern ski centres over here in Aldershot and Milton Keynes and by all accounts, they are thriving. And yet I see the same bullsh1t mentality here in Guildford Council (Tory dominated surprise surprise), who have once again rejected plans for a town centre nightclub and casino complex based on questionable rationale to the say the least - great thinking guys - keep the status quo of overpriced and limited nightclubs and let anyone who is sick of this p1ss off up to London to spend their money there instead (and believe me, plenty do).

Does Dundalk want to be like the same? Play the 'ah sure we're just a wee town' (only when it suits of course) mentality and be forever overshadowed by Belfast and Dublin?

Madflah

MonkeyTennis wrote: »

The argument above is ridiculous, if a new pub opened would that increase alcoholism ??

If people want to bet they will bet.

Exactly my point, though if you are referring to my post above?... your sarcasm detector must have been on the blink for a bit...

bigneacy

Jesus!! Some people will see the negative in everything! Its great to see new jobs being promised for Dundalk. Even if it is just a sales excercise for the current owners its better than the usual doom and gloom.

Super casino- big whoop. Gamblers will gamble no matter where, no matter what, and to argue that a super casino will make gambling easier or more accessible is ridiculous. A leisure complex of this type can only be good for the town to further place Dundalk as the premier lesiure destination in Ireland.

People from Dundalk should be proud that we can attract this sort of investment over other towns. :rolleyes:

old_aussie

In_tuition wrote: »

People won't gamble more because there is a super-casino.
.

Exactly, when the new super casino in Sydney Australia opened it didn't create more gamblers. It just became a novelty and a tourist attraction.

People will gamble if they want to, and they did it before the casino opened.