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Should the civil servant parking spaces be scrapped?

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  • 24-11-2009 12:01pm
    #1
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭


    http://commissionontaxation.ie/submissions/Individuals//G22%20-%20John%20Newman.pdf

    The article is Dublin only, add more countless spaces up for nationwide.

    I make it at least 7,000 spaces in the article for Dublin city centre. As a result of Dublin traffic been extraordinarily light this morning due to the public sector strike, shouldn't this generous perk be scrapped?

    After all, we are supposed to be encouraging public transport and not subsidising private motor travel with parking spaces. Of course that 200 quid parking levy should be scrapped when the perk is scrapped, that 200quid is only a drop in the ocean to the cost of those spaces.(compare 200quid to €1032->€2,500+ cost in the real world)

    Anyone else find it a disgrace in this day of severe congestion that these spaces still are provided?


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    #2
    ardmacha
    Registered Users Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    The more reasonable thing would be to increase the tax payable to reflect the real value of the benefit and have this paid by everyone, private and public alike.


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    #3
    Dr Galen
    Registered Users Posts: 7,373 ✭✭✭Dr Galen


    lots of employers provide parking for staff, why should the PS be any different?


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    #4
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    ardmacha wrote: »
    The more reasonable thing would be to increase the tax payable to reflect the real value of the benefit and have this paid by everyone, private and public alike.

    Sounds fair for the cost involved. You pay for your space. I'd rather the whole lot of the parking spaces were taken away and everyone pays to park their car in the city centre.
    This link says its 13,000 spaces involved in Dublin alone. http://buckplanning.blogspot.com/2008/06/civil-service-parking-ban-in-city-urged.html
    Mystik Monkey wrote: »
    lots of employers provide parking for staff, why should the PS be any different?

    Maybe as we pay their wages?

    It just seems hilarious that a large part of congestion is caused by govt run depts and its these depts that should take the lead in encouraging public transport in urban areas.

    Imagine if the all spaces were scrapped tomorrow(both Pub & Priv), you bet the employees will not bring their cars into work and would get the bus/train/cycle/walk instead.


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    #5
    Sleipnir
    Registered Users Posts: 5,514 ✭✭✭Sleipnir


    Mystik Monkey wrote: »
    lots of employers provide parking for staff, why should the PS be any different?

    While I do see your point, most companies in city centres have very limited spaces available, and then it's usually only for senior managers. I know my place has 250 employees and 6 spaces (reserved for the directors).


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    #6
    Cuddlesworth
    Registered Users Posts: 13,995 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    1600 staff and just over 100 spaces in the city centre. If you have a office in the city centre then parking is a privilege, not a right.


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    #7
    BroomBurner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,737 ✭✭✭BroomBurner


    Gurramok, I really did believe you were above the "we pay your wages" mantra. Disappointed in that, to be honest.

    As for parking spaces, if your workplace (private or public) is lucky enough to come with a parking lot, then so be it.

    The bitterness here by people who get all holier-than-thou with their "have-not" facade is pathetic.


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    #8
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    BroomBurner wrote: »
    Gurramok, I really did believe you were above the "we pay your wages" mantra. Disappointed in that, to be honest.

    As for parking spaces, if your workplace (private or public) is lucky enough to come with a parking lot, then so be it.

    The bitterness here by people who get all holier-than-thou with their "have-not" facade is pathetic.

    The poster asked why are the PS any different? I said the truth. There are far too many parking spaces provided for the PS employees out of public money. Is 13,000 not too much for one city centre??


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    #9
    Johnboymac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20 ✭Johnboymac


    gurramok wrote: »

    Maybe as we pay their wages?

    maybe you contribute along with all tax payers...and guess what you ignoramus....Civil and Public servants are also taxpayers...so get off the horse you rode in on......


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    #10
    stepbar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭stepbar


    Johnboymac wrote: »
    Maybe as we pay their wages?

    maybe you contribute along with all tax payers...and guess what you ignoramus....Civil and Public servants are also taxpayers...so get off the horse you rode in on......

    Who creates the money to pay the wages?


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    #11
    stepbar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭stepbar


    Getting back to the argument.... if someone has a car space provided to them by their employer, then it should be taxed. As far as I'm concerned it's a benefit given in kind.

    Mind you the amount it would raise in tax would probably be insignificant. On the flip side it would encourage people to use public transport.


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    #12
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Johnboymac wrote: »
    maybe you contribute along with all tax payers...and guess what you ignoramus....Civil and Public servants are also taxpayers...so get off the horse you rode in on......

    This again. You do not pay my wages unless I end up on the dole hence I have a valid statement in questioning where my taxes go.


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    #13
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    I think this thread is a year too late.
    Parking levy

    Budget 2009 provides for a parking levy in urban areas. The parking levy will be paid by employees if they have use of car parking facilities provided either directly or indirectly by their employer. It is not taxed like other benefits and benefits-in-kind. The parking levy is a set amount, however, the amount you pay can vary.

    The parking levy is €200 if you have the ongoing use of a parking space. The parking levy is €100 if you must share parking spaces and there are at least twice as many employees to parking spaces. The levy can also be reduced to take account of job-sharing arrangements, maternity leave (including 10 weeks before you start your maternity leave), adoptive leave and certain shift work (for example, if you start or finish work after 9 pm or before 7 am).

    You do not pay the parking levy if you:

    Are disabled driver with a Disabled Drivers Parking Permit or
    Have permission to park for not more than 10 days in a year


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    #14
    Jamar
    Registered Users Posts: 52 ✭✭Jamar


    Yes. The commute into or through Dublin City is horrendous; and removing these spaces would seem to help. Simple as, imo.


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    #15
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    dvpower wrote: »
    I think this thread is a year too late.

    You missed this bit about the cost of the parking space.

    "(compare 200quid to €1032->€2,500+ cost in the real world)"


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    #16
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    gurramok wrote: »
    You missed this bit about the cost of the parking space.

    "(compare 200quid to €1032->€2,500+ cost in the real world)"

    You have to give them a chance. Get the fee established. Then, year after year, add an extra €50 - you know how it works.


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    #17
    Rob67
    Registered Users Posts: 217 ✭✭Rob67


    gurramok wrote: »
    http://commissionontaxation.ie/submissions/Individuals//G22%20-%20John%20Newman.pdf

    The article is Dublin only, add more countless spaces up for nationwide.

    I make it at least 7,000 spaces in the article for Dublin city centre. As a result of Dublin traffic been extraordinarily light this morning due to the public sector strike, shouldn't this generous perk be scrapped?

    After all, we are supposed to be encouraging public transport and not subsidising private motor travel with parking spaces. Of course that 200 quid parking levy should be scrapped when the perk is scrapped, that 200quid is only a drop in the ocean to the cost of those spaces.(compare 200quid to €1032->€2,500+ cost in the real world)

    Anyone else find it a disgrace in this day of severe congestion that these spaces still are provided?

    Instead of ranting, what do you suggest be done to rectify this 'perk'?


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    #18
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Rob67 wrote: »
    Instead of ranting, what do you suggest be done to rectify this 'perk'?

    Did you not read the posts?

    Make them pay for their spaces or scrap them altogether. It will make wonders to seeing 13,000 less cars in the city centre.


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    #19
    brianthebard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    stepbar wrote: »
    Who creates the money to pay the wages?

    How would the state function without a public service? So many idiotic threads lately.


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    #20
    stepbar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭stepbar


    brianthebard wrote: »
    How would the state function without a public service? So many idiotic threads lately.

    O jeasus :rolleyes:

    Talk about missing the point........


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    #21
    brianthebard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    stepbar wrote: »
    O jeasus :rolleyes:

    Talk about missing the point........

    I can see your point, I just think its silly to say that because you supposedly 'pay someone's wages' you automatically can tell them what to do. Believe it or not you are not the employer of the public sector, you do not have authority over them. Also since they as workers also pay tax it could be said they are their own bosses, using your 'logic'.


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    #22
    stepbar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭stepbar


    brianthebard wrote: »
    I can see your point, I just think its silly to say that because you supposedly 'pay someone's wages' you automatically can tell them what to do. Believe it or not you are not the employer of the public sector, you do not have authority over them. Also since they as workers also pay tax it could be said they are their own bosses, using your 'logic'.

    Where did I say that? :confused:

    I do expect the employer (in this case the Government) to providing value to their customers (in this case the Private Sector Taxpayer). It's not too much to ask seeing the private sector is stumping up the net funds.


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    #23
    brianthebard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    stepbar wrote: »
    Where did I say that? :confused:

    Are you for real? You said it on the first page and you've repeated it below.
    I do expect the employer (in this case the Government) to providing value to their customers (in this case the Private Sector Taxpayer). It's not too much to ask seeing the private sector is stumping up the net funds.


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    #24
    stepbar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭stepbar


    brianthebard wrote: »
    Are you for real? You said it on the first page and you've repeated it below.

    Ok let me more specific -
    There's a difference between telling a civil servant what to do and telling the Government what they should be doing. I have no wish to tell a civil servant how to do their job (as much as I'd love to but it's not my job). I have no wish to dictate policy to the Government, that's their job! However, I have a right to expect value for money from their employers i.e the Government. The dogs in the street have known for sometime that this has not been happening.


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    #25
    brianthebard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    What's that got to do with parking spaces?


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    #26
    Johnboymac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20 ✭Johnboymac


    its the same in all sectors....if an office comes with parking then those in the higher echelons normally get that perk....the minions get the bus no matter whar sector in you work in...oooohhh sounds a bit like the tax regime.....those in the higher echolons avail of the breaks....again...no matter what sector!


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    #27
    brianthebard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    Hmm, well I worked in a factory where everyone had a parking space i guess we were all executives or public servants right???? :rolleyes:


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    #28
    PCPhoto
    Registered Users Posts: 6,584 ✭✭✭PCPhoto


    brianthebard wrote: »
    How would the state function without a public service? So many idiotic threads lately.

    the world kept spinning today despite the public service being on strike.


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    #29
    stepbar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭stepbar


    brianthebard wrote: »
    What's that got to do with parking spaces?

    You mite want to ask johnboy that....


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    #30
    CityCentreMan
    Registered Users Posts: 123 ✭✭CityCentreMan


    The civil servants parking spaces should be scrapped. EU200 per year is so low as to be nearly as good as free and, as a flat rate, it gives no incentive to use public transport.

    Standard meter parking rates as applied for normal taxpayers in Dublin city centre are about EU2.50 per hour. This acts as a good incentive to leave the car at home. This reduces congestion and is good for the environment.

    I understand that the money would come in handy as well!


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    #31
    Rob67
    Registered Users Posts: 217 ✭✭Rob67


    gurramok wrote: »
    Did you not read the posts?

    Make them pay for their spaces or scrap them altogether. It will make wonders to seeing 13,000 less cars in the city centre.

    Eh, they are paying for them? Admittedly, it may not be a huge amount (€200 p.a.) but they are paying for it, an increase in the cost may be warranted to dissuade use of the car.

    So, by removing 13,000 cars belonging to one sector of society would be seen as solving some traffic issue or is it more a case of: rebalancing the books in the great Public/Private sector Civil war? What's your next 'suggestion'? 'No Public Servant is to be permitted to own or have the use of a mechanically propelled vehicle?' Isn't that close to creating an apartheid system?

    In a perfect world no-one who worked in the City Centre should need to use cars to get there, however, seeing as we don't, that is, we don't have a 24hr bus or rail service and taxi's would be prohibitively expensive, the car (or motor-bike) are here to stay.

    If, by your reasoning, we were to scrap all the parking spaces for Public Servants, are you honestly saying that they should be only allowed to use public transport?

    If so, how do you propose to deal with those Public Servants who work shifts/outside normal working hours, e.g. Gardai, Nurses, Soldiers, Local Authority workers and certain Civil Servants?

    Further to this, I am therefore going to assume that the same rules will apply to Private Sector workers? After all, not every Public Sector worker who has to travel to the city has a parking space and actually pay the same rate as everyone else for using public street/ private car parks.

    Where or when does the bile stop?


    Damn, I've realised I'm answering histrionics with same... I must be tired!


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