Should the civil servant parking spaces be scrapped?

gurramok

Rob67 wrote: »

Eh, they are paying for them? Admittedly, it may not be a huge amount (€200 p.a.) but they are paying for it, an increase in the cost may be warranted to dissuade use of the car.

200quid is nothing when taking the cost of those spaces to the taxpayer in question

Rob67 wrote: »

So, by removing 13,000 cars belonging to one sector of society would be seen as solving some traffic issue or is it more a case of: rebalancing the books in the great Public/Private sector Civil war? What's your next 'suggestion'? 'No Public Servant is to be permitted to own or have the use of a mechanically propelled vehicle?' Isn't that close to creating an apartheid system?

Nope, why not scrap the spaces? So, you favour continued preventative congestion, nice one.

Rob67 wrote: »

In a perfect world no-one who worked in the City Centre should need to use cars to get there, however, seeing as we don't, that is, we don't have a 24hr bus or rail service and taxi's would be prohibitively expensive, the car (or motor-bike) are here to stay.

If, by your reasoning, we were to scrap all the parking spaces for Public Servants, are you honestly saying that they should be only allowed to use public transport?

If so, how do you propose to deal with those Public Servants who work shifts/outside normal working hours, e.g. Gardai, Nurses, Soldiers, Local Authority workers and certain Civil Servants?

Ever hear of taxis?...or heaven forbid the bicycle?

Rob67 wrote: »

Further to this, I am therefore going to assume that the same rules will apply to Private Sector workers? After all, not every Public Sector worker who has to travel to the city has a parking space and actually pay the same rate as everyone else for using public street/ private car parks.

Taxpayers don't subsidise Private Sector parking spaces but yes there should be incentive to scrap their spaces too.

Rob67 wrote: »

Where or when does the bile stop?!

Not bile, your imagination.

Sleipnir

brianthebard wrote: »

Hmm, well I worked in a factory where everyone had a parking space i guess we were all executives or public servants right???? :rolleyes:

Did anybody say every parking spot in the city centre is reserved for executives? No, but most companies in the city centre have a limited number of car parking spaces and again, normally those are reserved for senior management.

Rob67

gurramok wrote: »

200quid is nothing when taking the cost of those spaces to the taxpayer in question

I more or less agree with you and you still argue the point? What cost is there to the taxpayer? The vast majority of the buildings occupied by various depts are owned by the state, so there is no appreciable rent cost.

Nope, why not scrap the spaces? So, you favour continued preventative congestion, nice one.

I never said that, you are deliberately taking me out of context. You have only served to prove that you are being apartheid minded in regards the Public Sector.

Ever hear of taxis?...or heaven forbid the bicycle?

This is clever... obviously you don't take a taxi regularly, they are expensive if you decide to use one in replacement of the private car. As for bicycles, I don't see many Public Servants who work outside normal hours cycling from their homes in Naas, Navan or even Bray. (Yeah, I know, I am being Dublin-centric, it's only an example). I would only assume you haven't given this a lot of thought have you?

Taxpayers don't subsidise Private Sector parking spaces but yes there should be incentive to scrap their spaces too

.

Woo... hoo... agreement (of sorts) at last...

Not bile, your imagination.

Well, if that were the case my imagination is very realistic as a result of looking over the huge volume of posts regarding the anti-Public Sector lobby. I have never witnessed such bilious diatribe from some people who are looking for anything to attack fellow citizens..

gurramok

Rob67 wrote: »

I more or less agree with you and you still argue the point? What cost is there to the taxpayer? The vast majority of the buildings occupied by various depts are owned by the state, so there is no appreciable rent cost.

Did you not read the article I provided about the rental costs of those spaces? Something like 8m quid is spent needlessly.

And what about the congestion costs of those preventable 13,000 private cars clogging up the city centre?

Rob67 wrote: »

I never said that, you are deliberately taking me out of context. You have only served to prove that you are being apartheid minded in regards the Public Sector.

Oh boy. I as a taxpayer highlight waste in the public sector and I get labelled as 'apartheid'.

Rob67 wrote: »

This is clever... obviously you don't take a taxi regularly, they are expensive if you decide to use one in replacement of the private car. As for bicycles, I don't see many Public Servants who work outside normal hours cycling from their homes in Naas, Navan or even Bray. (Yeah, I know, I am being Dublin-centric, it's only an example). I would only assume you haven't given this a lot of thought have you?

No-one forced anyone to live in the middle of nowhere to commute to the city centre. They all ain't living out in the middle of nowhere. By the way Bray has the Dart.
.

Rob67 wrote: »

Well, if that were the case my imagination is very realistic as a result of looking over the huge volume of posts regarding the anti-Public Sector lobby. I have never witnessed such bilious diatribe from some people who are looking for anything to attack fellow citizens..

Funny man. Ignore the issue and accuse anyone who questions it as 'bilious diatribe'.

Rob67

gurramok wrote: »

Did you not read the article I provided about the rental costs of those spaces? Something like 8m quid is spent needlessly.

This article is from 2008, in the intervening period Finance vacated that building earlier this year so that cost is now gone. I would agree that the cost should be more apportioned to the occupier, but to scrap them and force Public Servants to solely depend on an inefficient public transport system is ridiculous. It would give effect to restrictions on movement to one sector of society, unless it was applied across the entire spectrum of commuters it would be an unfair imposition on personal freedom.

And what about the congestion costs of those preventable 13,000 private cars clogging up the city centre?

Would the Private Sector commuters, who also clog up the city's thoroughfares, be willing to make the same sacrifice?

Oh boy. I as a taxpayer highlight waste in the public sector and I get labelled as 'apartheid'.

This is all we need, professional victim-hood... I freely accept that there is waste in certain areas, you are generalising it as widespread.

You are vindicating a policy which imposes restrictions on the freedom of movement on one sector of society, so yes, the label still applies.

No-one forced anyone to live in the middle of nowhere to commute to the city centre. They all ain't living out in the middle of nowhere. By the way Bray has the Dart.

Were you actually paying attention to the last few years? House prices went through the roof, so to be able to afford to buy a house many people had to move further out. So, yes they were forced out to more rural locations to be able to lead a life.

Does the Dart operate during the wee small hours?

Funny man. Ignore the issue and accuse anyone who questions it as 'bilious diatribe'.

Thanks, my humour often escapes people.

I never ignored the issue, I questioned the validity of your argument, I still do, considering your position is based on a personal letter (yours?), an article from a biased media source and a blog citing the view of a lobby group. Not exactly the most impartial of sources are they?

Chardee MacDennis

dvpower wrote: »

I think this thread is a year too late.

can i have one of these spaces for 200 euro? bargain...

Chardee MacDennis

Rob67 wrote: »

Would the Private Sector commuters, who also clog up the city's thoroughfares, be willing to make the same sacrifice?

show me the precentages, i bet you there are more ps parking in dublin as a percentage than in the private sector

gazzer

In the 16 years I worked as a CS in Dublin I never had a free parking space. In fact in the last department I worked in (Revenue) there was a 5 year waiting list for the few spaces available

Rob67

BastardPrince wrote: »

show me the precentages, i bet you there are more ps parking in dublin as a percentage than in the private sector

A bit hard to do considering the Private Sector is not held to the same public scrutiny as the Public Sector, so the figure would not be quantifiable as a percentage. I am not going to engage in a statistical poll taking just to verify something which I posited as a query.

Cuddlesworth

brianthebard wrote: »

Hmm, well I worked in a factory where everyone had a parking space i guess we were all executives or public servants right???? :rolleyes:

In the city centre? Is this place still running? The value of land in the city centre is vastly different then outside of it. And for that reason all the car parking spaces that a huge number of public servants currently enjoy could be sold or the space used appropriately.

Rob67

BastardPrince wrote: »

can i have one of these spaces for 200 euro? bargain...

You can have mine... oh wait, I never had one...

gurramok

Rob67 wrote: »

This article is from 2008, in the intervening period Finance vacated that building earlier this year so that cost is now gone. I would agree that the cost should be more apportioned to the occupier, but to scrap them and force Public Servants to solely depend on an inefficient public transport system is ridiculous. It would give effect to restrictions on movement to one sector of society, unless it was applied across the entire spectrum of commuters it would be an unfair imposition on personal freedom.

In case you missed, i would be favour of scrapping all the parking spaces for both sectors. Its the 13,000 where most are provided in a core area out of taxpayers money that the taxpayer has a right to know whats going on.

Rob67 wrote: »

Would the Private Sector commuters, who also clog up the city's thoroughfares, be willing to make the same sacrifice?

Sure yeh. You missed that part again.

Rob67 wrote: »

This is all we need, professional victim-hood... I freely accept that there is waste in certain areas, you are generalising it as widespread.

You are vindicating a policy which imposes restrictions on the freedom of movement on one sector of society, so yes, the label still applies.

You brought victimhood here. If Google provided a 1000 parking spaces on Barrow st, Dublin, they would be rightly scorned but hey they employ about 1,500 and provide about 20 parking spaces.

Rob67 wrote: »

Were you actually paying attention to the last few years? House prices went through the roof, so to be able to afford to buy a house many people had to move further out. So, yes they were forced out to more rural locations to be able to lead a life.

No-one forced them to. Ever hear of renting? It works wonders for foreigners working here and on the continent.

Rob67 wrote: »

Does the Dart operate during the wee small hours?

No. Do the vast majority of PS workers work in the wee small hours?

Rob67 wrote: »

Thanks, my humour often escapes people.

I never ignored the issue, I questioned the validity of your argument, I still do, considering your position is based on a personal letter (yours?), an article from a biased media source and a blog citing the view of a lobby group. Not exactly the most impartial of sources are they?

Provide an 'unbiased link'. How many parking spaces are provided by the taxpayer to the public servants then?

Never knew the Taxation people were biased.

brianthebard

gurramok wrote: »

No. Do the vast majority of PS workers work in the wee small hours?

Guards, nurses, doctors, prison officers, etc, etc? There are some ridiculous claims in this thread.

Riskymove

gurramok wrote: »

In case you missed, i would be favour of scrapping all the parking spaces for both sectors.

thats a valid view but this thread is clearly about targeting one sector

some buildings have car parking, some dont, in pretty much all cases i'd imagine there are spaces for only a fraction of the staff

most public servants use public transport, undoubtedly

for some a car is neccessary

bridgitt

Riskymove wrote: »

most public servants use public transport, undoubtedly

The odd time perhaps, but most would have a car / drive a car. Why would they not at the salaries they are on ?

Riskymove

bridgitt wrote: »

The odd time perhaps, but most would have a car / drive a car. Why would they not at the salaries they are on ?

:rolleyes:

another balanced post

gurramok

brianthebard wrote: »

Guards, nurses, doctors, prison officers, etc, etc? There are some ridiculous claims in this thread.

13,000 work in the wee small hours of Dublin city centre? Ridiculous quoting a minority on nightshift. Note, i said the majority.

Rob67

gurramok wrote: »

In case you missed, i would be favour of scrapping all the parking spaces for both sectors. Its the 13,000 where most are provided in a core area out of taxpayers money that the taxpayer has a right to know whats going on.




Sure yeh. You missed that part again.

Sorry, I have a tendency to tune out when there is too much ranting going on!

You brought victimhood here.

I never did, I defended a sector you had attacked.

Google provided a 1000 parking spaces on Barrow st, Dublin, they would be rightly scorned but hey they employ about 1,500 and provide about 20 parking spaces.

That's their prerogative, they are a Private Sector employer after all and therefore not required to answer to the likes of you and I.

No-one forced them to. Ever hear of renting? It works wonders for foreigners working here and on the continent.

what!? Are you saying now that a Public Sector is not to be allowed to own property too? Where will it all end? And then to equate Public Sector workers with 'foreigners' in such a derogatory tone, I think your issues may be deeper than you think.

And no, I'm not taking you seriously, I think you are far too funny to be be ever considered so.

No. Do the vast majority of PS workers work in the wee small hours?

Soldiers, Gardai, Nurses, Doctors, Fire Service do operate at unusual hours. As do certain grades of Civil Servant, hang on I thought I already mentioned this, are you not reading my posts properly? For shame!!

Provide an 'unbiased link'. How many parking spaces are provided by the taxpayer to the public servants then?

I have no idea whatsoever, you are the one who brought it up, you go look.

Never knew the Taxation people were biased.

The letter was from a private individual as far as I could see (strangely enough the link to the letter is now broken, very strange...:rolleyes:). It did not originate in a revenue office, it does have a date stamp and initialled to attest to its date of receipt, but there is no letterhead as would be expected of a letter or internal memorandum generated in a Civil Service office.

bridgitt

Riskymove wrote: »

:rolleyes:

another balanced post

More true than your claim that "most public servants use public transport, undoubtedly". No, most of the third of a million public servants do not use public transport. For many in the country it is not even an option.
Car parking spaces are a perk, and the government should charge full market price for them, to those who want to use them.

Rob67

bridgitt wrote: »

The odd time perhaps, but most would have a car / drive a car. Why would they not at the salaries they are on ?

Why would you say that? Are you following all of them and keeping tabs on their activities, oohh, you are good! To be able to ascertain that most of the Public Sector have a car/ own a car is truly a master-stroke.

And no, I don't take you seriously either...

gurramok

Rob67 wrote: »

Sorry, I have a tendency to tune out when there is too much ranting going on!

Not ranting, discussing the issue. If it was ranting, it would be in the ranting forum and you would not be allowed to disagree.

Rob67 wrote: »

I never did, I defended a sector you had attacked.

"professional victim-hood." were uttered by you.

Rob67 wrote: »

That's their prerogative, they are a Private Sector employer after all and therefore not required to answer to the likes of you and I.

Exactly. Now you see why we have a right to criticise state subsidies. Progress.

Rob67 wrote: »

what!? Are you saying now that a Public Sector is not to be allowed to own property too? Where will it all end? And then to equate Public Sector workers with 'foreigners' in such a derogatory tone, I think your issues may be deeper than you think.

Eh no. You are making up stories in reply. No-one forced them to live in the middle of nowhere, renting was there as an option. They could of bought when it was affordable to do so, its called budgeting.

Rob67 wrote: »

And no, I'm not taking you seriously, I think you are far too funny to be be ever considered so.

Whats so funny?

Rob67 wrote: »

Soldiers, Gardai, Nurses, Doctors, Fire Service do operate at unusual hours. As do certain grades of Civil Servant, hang on I thought I already mentioned this, are you not reading my posts properly? For shame!!

Note, the majority...not some minority. Accept that the majority work normal day hours, is that too hard?

Rob67 wrote: »

I have no idea whatsoever, you are the one who brought it up, you go look.

The letter was from a private individual as far as I could see (strangely enough the link to the letter is now broken, very strange...:rolleyes:). It did not originate in a revenue office, it does have a date stamp and initialled to attest to its date of receipt, but there is no letterhead as would be expected of a letter or internal memorandum generated in a Civil Service office.

The figures are from a state Public Sector body (OPW), you dismiss them and yet do not provide your own, hilarious.

Riskymove

bridgitt wrote: »

More true than your claim that "most public servants use public transport, undoubtedly". No, most of the third of a million public servants do not use public transport. For many in the country it is not even an option.

we are talking about dublin city here and most public servants do not drive, obviously rural locations are a different story

the basic evidence is that there are not enough spaces in Dublin provided for them all...not by a long shot

secondly why would anyone public or private drive to the city centre unless they had to...its a horrible, frustrating time

for a period of time I was on a particular train route and there were so many of my colleagues on it that that we used to joke we should have our carriage!!:pac:

bridgitt

Rob67 wrote: »

Why would you say that? Are you following all of them and keeping tabs on their activities, oohh, you are good! To be able to ascertain that most of the Public Sector have a car/ own a car is truly a master-stroke.

I was replying to someone who posted ""most public servants use public transport, undoubtedly". The average teacher , nurse, civil servant, hospital worker, fireman, prison officer etc I ever met usually had a car.
The point is, as said before, car parking spaces are a perk, and the government should charge full market price for them, to those who want to use them.

brianthebard

gurramok wrote: »

13,000 work in the wee small hours of Dublin city centre? Ridiculous quoting a minority on nightshift. Note, i said the majority.

All guards and nurses will have to work nights at some stage.

Rob67

gurramok wrote: »

Not ranting, discussing the issue. If it was ranting, it would be in the ranting forum and you would not be allowed to disagree.

From your perspective maybe, not mine.

"professional victim-hood." were uttered by you.

You should be more specific then, I mentioned the words in relation to you, not as an expression of my state of mind.

Exactly. Now you see why we have a right to criticise state subsidies. Progress.

I never disagreed with a policy of public bodies being held up to scrutiny.

Eh no. You are making up stories in reply. No-one forced them to live in the middle of nowhere, renting was there as an option. They could of bought when it was affordable to do so, its called budgeting.

Did I not qualify my statement with: And no, I'm not taking you seriously? I must remember to be more obvious in future.

Whats so funny?

I must decline answering that question on the grounds I may incriminate myself.:D

Note, the majority...not some minority. Accept that the majority work normal day hours, is that too hard?

No, not in the least, you generalised so I replied in kind.

The figures are from a state Public Sector body (OPW), you dismiss them and yet do not provide your own, hilarious.

I don't need to, I can refute them as evidence as they are quoted figures in a photocopied cutting from a media organ that that is highly biased against the Public Sector. I am entitled to deny your photocopies as evidence as the original source documents were not provided.

Me, hilarious? Why, thank you!

Rob67

bridgitt wrote: »

I was replying to someone who posted ""most public servants use public transport, undoubtedly". The average teacher , nurse, civil servant, hospital worker, fireman, prison officer etc I ever met usually had a car.
The point is, as said before, car parking spaces are a perk, and the government should charge full market price for them, to those who want to use them.

And those that I have highlighted work outside normal working hours were public transport is not available except at extraordinary expense ie taxi's.

Daithinski

Rob67 wrote: »

Instead of ranting, what do you suggest be done to rectify this 'perk'?

Come on now, ranting is the sole purpose of the politics section of boards.ie

Even a suggestion of what to do to rectify the perk would be little more than a rant, as nobody is going to listen to it.

gurramok

Rob67 wrote: »

From your perspective maybe, not mine.

Do you know what the ranting forum is about? Good heavens.

Rob67 wrote: »

You should be more specific then, I mentioned the words in relation to you, not as an expression of my state of mind.

Where did i say i was a 'victim'?

Rob67 wrote: »

I never disagreed with a policy of public bodies being held up to scrutiny.

Then what part of the 13,000 subsidised car parking spaces do you disagree with?

Rob67 wrote: »

Did I not qualify my statement with: And no, I'm not taking you seriously? I must remember to be more obvious in future.
I must decline answering that question on the grounds I may incriminate myself.:D

Are you trolling? If you do not bother engaging a discussion, it speaks volumes.

Rob67 wrote: »

No, not in the least, you generalised so I replied in kind.

Finally you agree a MINORITY work in the 'wee' hours. So you agree with me, at last. More progress.

Rob67 wrote: »

I don't need to, I can refute them as evidence as they are quoted figures in a photocopied cutting from a media organ that that is highly biased against the Public Sector. I am entitled to deny your photocopies as evidence as the original source documents were not provided.

OPW are against the public sector, nice one.

PS: stop breaking the quote system :P

bridgitt

Rob67 wrote: »

And those that I have highlighted work outside normal working hours were public transport is not available except at extraordinary expense ie taxi's.

Glad you seemingly agree so that riskymoves statement ""most public servants use public transport, undoubtedly" holds no credibility.

Riskymove

bridgitt wrote: »

Glad you seemingly agree so that riskymoves statement ""most public servants use public transport, undoubtedly" holds no credibility.

yyyyyyyyyyyyyaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

I am glad to see someone's filling in for Jimmmy