24th Nov Strikes... What a joke

KELTICKNIGHTT

prinz wrote: »

eh here....



I take it you actually looked back through my posts and can not find any instance of me claiming that cuts would not/could not/must not be made.:rolleyes:. What I am looking for is a little reality. Is that too much to ask? While people are on here castigating the public sector the real reasons for the meltdown disappear into the fog..

first i never said you said that cuts wherent going too happen for 3 time:eek:
second
for what ever reasons you put forward for what you call meltdown,they public sector have too relise theres going too be cuts,they not going too get support because it has too happen,too what degree not being decided yet by goverment and when ,its costing a small country too much when it in the negitive,the numbers dont add up, ps workers make suggestions to cut others and other areas except themselfs,they go on about what they didnt get last time etc ,but neither did anyone in private sector,other goverments in world had too make these hard discisions and going too happen here but would guess too a smaller degree

TCP/IP_King

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

More un-informed opinion.
Stats please!!

prinz

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

first i never said you said that cuts wherent going too happen for 3 time:eek:
second

O, so those cuts that I was going to "keep my head in the sand and talk my way out of it"...that "I had to wake up because I was in dreamland on my gravy train".. "that I failed to realise cuts were going to happen"...... and you now apparently you acknowledge that none of these are actually true? I am all for cuts, cuts are going to happen, they have to, I have never said otherwise.

But instead of actually digesting the points of my posts you decided that "I and my fellow PS workers" need to wake up.

KELTICKNIGHTT

prinz wrote: »

O, so those cuts that I was going to "keep my head in the sand and talk my way out of it"...that "I had to wake up because I was in dreamland on my gravy train".. "that I failed to realise cuts were going to happen"...... and you now apparently you acknowledge that none of these are actually true? I am all for cuts, cuts are going to happen, they have to, I have never said otherwise.

But instead of actually digesting the points of my posts you decided that "I and my fellow PS workers" need to wake up.

i never said you said again for the 4 time cuts i public sector wherent going too happen,
but im not going too play your little game as you have with other posters here by as you put it digesting as you put it

i think its funny how you put waht i said too you in your verson
specialy when i try too put it back

Shea O'Meara

Dr Kamikazi wrote: »

Not second hand opinion, first hand accounts from friends who are public sector workers who each earned more than double than what I earned when I still had a job.
I was an office technician and in and out of government buildings every day.
I did in 8 years witness one serious incident in the housing department where the Gards where called.
The rest was about as stressful as a relaxed stroll in the park in there, at least on the public workers side.
Yes, being on duty in an A&E department at night or a Gard at 3 am is no picknick but it's been well proven that the pay ain't bad by any means or standards whatsoever.
How many civil servants have a couple of jobs going at the same time to make ends meet?
Work you hours, go home, enjoy.
Level of sympathy for public sector workers: zero.
More like everyone looking on at a child rolling on the floor of the supermarket, purple in the face from screaming cause mommy won't buy him the sweets he wants.

I believe it's others behaving like spoilt brats. They're not looking for more, as you allude to with your analogy above. They want what they were previously promised. No sympathy sought, but a demand promises be kept.

Sizzler

Shea O'Meara wrote: »

I believe it's others behaving like spoilt brats. They're not looking for more, as you allude to with your analogy above. They want what they were previously promised. No sympathy sought, but a demand promises be kept.

Realistic promises which were effectively nothing more than populist policies which Ahern peddled out to ensure another term in power for his govt.

Research how much Ahern's "promises" to expand the public sector and parallel bench marking have actually cost the economy over the last 5 years and you might then have a better understanding of why we are where we are.

KELTICKNIGHTT

Shea O'Meara wrote: »

I believe it's others behaving like spoilt brats. They're not looking for more, as you allude to with your analogy above. They want what they were previously promised. No sympathy sought, but a demand promises be kept.

I believe it's others behaving like spoilt brats. They're not looking for more, as you allude to with your analogy above. They want what they were previously promised. No sympathy sought, but a demand promises be kept.



are you for real,the money not there and cant afford ps workers what they are costing at moment,you be lucky if some dont losre there jobs,
so wake up and face it,either take cut or lose some jobs

Shea O'Meara

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

are you for real,the money not there and cant afford ps workers what they are costing at moment,you be lucky if some dont losre there jobs,
so wake up and face it,either take cut or lose some jobs

You're switching it up now. You said they wanted more, I said they wanted what they were promised.
Now to your point above, you are correct. I believe the union will happily engage in talks. The Government in their panic are simply trying to ride roughshot and renege on previous agreements. They need a middle ground. As previously posted this all starts and ends with the Government. The Public Sector is right to strike as this Government are stumbling in the dark trying to clean up their mess on the backs of Pensioners, The sick, School Children and of course the middle to low income taxpayer. Obvious and fair choices:rolleyes:

KELTICKNIGHTT

Shea O'Meara wrote: »

You're switching it up now. You said they wanted more, I said they wanted what they were promised.
Now to your point above, you are correct. I believe the union will happily engage in talks. The Government in their panic are simply trying to ride roughshot and renege on previous agreements. They need a middle ground. As previously posted this all starts and ends with the Government. The Public Sector is right to strike as this Government are stumbling in the dark trying to clean up their mess on the backs of Pensioners, The sick, School Children and of course the middle to low income taxpayer. Obvious and fair choices:rolleyes:

the end results is that there going too be cuts in public sector as the cost are too high,the country cant afford it ,its that simple,looking for waht ever was promised when times where good is one thing but that day is gone,the cash isnt there and they can keep borrowing,as they mighten alwasy get what they looking too borrow,my income is down 60%,not much i can do and survive

alejandro1977

prinz wrote: »

That's not what I was suggesting at all, but it's pointless to tell the public sector to look at Latvia in this situation and be happy etc. :rolleyes: I'm all for cutting spending. However it's pointless to expect there not to be a backlash either.



+1, and the low public sector pay was one of the reasons the boom started in the first place, wasn't it Liam Carroll of Zoe Developments who said he started out building "apartments that even a garda, teacher or nurse could afford". The country got caught into a vicious cycle of spend, spend spend, and every sector is to blame.

I hardly think the spin/marketing hype of a disgraced property developer can be used as any sort of evidence (I'm referring to the sub par design/build quality as well as the safety record on his sites).

The issue was that increasing property was used as an excuse for increased for all teachers/nurses etc. regardless of whether the individuals already owned property; obviously pay increases cannot be linked to something like individual property ownership - they should be related to performance (i.e. work done/ value created) just like in the rest of the real economy.

Unfortunately there are few members of the political class with even an academic understanding of business/economics; fewer still who achieved any entrepreneurial success.

Come to think of it, Brian Lenihan is the only one at cabinet with moderate success in his prior career and it's highly unlikely he'd be in the Dail if it weren't for his "heritage".

alejandro1977

Shea O'Meara wrote: »

I believe it's others behaving like spoilt brats. They're not looking for more, as you allude to with your analogy above. They want what they were previously promised. No sympathy sought, but a demand promises be kept.

Promises work both ways; most members of the PS signed up for a career therein long before the boom; they obviously felt the salary/pension/conditions were good then. When the boom came along - driven initially by strong exports and then inflated by low interest rates/excessive leverage - they threatened to go on strike unless "benchmarking" was introduced. Unfortunately the benchmarking was not transparent and failed to remotely account for job conditions and security let alone address the need for real reform and accountability.

Can you imagine anyone in an MNC going to a manager and saying "I need a pay rise because houses are expensive" - no - you negotiate your pay relative to what you can get elsewhere - i.e. on the basis you the value you add due to skills and experience. It's a competitive world for many people in the export driven sector.

What you don't see is that so many young people are back to pre-boom rates of pay, many have mid-boom mortgages levels and yet some PS members think it's outrageous that they struggle to pay the mortgage on their holiday homes in Croatia (like the woman on the Pat Kenny show)

prinz

alejandro1977 wrote: »

I hardly think the spin/marketing hype of a disgraced property developer can be used as any sort of evidence (I'm referring to the sub par design/build quality as well as the safety record on his sites).

Well it is evidence.It's one of the primary reasons he was getting permission to build 1 bed shoeboxes in the first place because he assured those he had to that he could offer "affordable" housing etc for those in the public sector. Apparently that went down well and sure enough up started sprouting rubbish badly built matchboxes. The blocks he and others threw up were bought by the people they were aimed at, more boxes, bought etc etc and they start getting more expensive and on it goes.

alejandro1977 wrote: »

What you don't see is that so many young people are back to pre-boom rates of pay, many have mid-boom mortgages levels and yet some PS members think it's outrageous that they struggle to pay the mortgage on their holiday homes in Croatia (like the woman on the Pat Kenny show)

Let's not get into extrapolating one example shall we? If anyone remembers the original Frontline episode on the public v private debate, the one member of the audience who spoke up for the private sector didn't do it any favours either, decked out in his designer suit and faux oxbridge accent. Nearly choked on what I was eating at the time. He didn't represent me or anyone I know, yet there he was banging on about the cut he had to take boo hoo poor mouthing, then he turned around and refused to say an even approximate income for himself with a smug stupid grin.

alejandro1977

prinz wrote: »

Well it is evidence.It's one of the primary reasons he was getting permission to build 1 bed shoeboxes in the first place because he assured those he had to that he could offer "affordable" housing etc for those in the public sector. Apparently that went down well and sure enough up started sprouting rubbish badly built matchboxes. The blocks he and others threw up were bought by the people they were aimed at, more boxes, bought etc etc and they start getting more expensive and on it goes.

Causal Effect is what I am querying.

What you said was that -"low public sector pay caused the boom" - can you not see that increased disposable income (pay rises and tax cuts) and reduced interest rates [temporarily] increased affordability and available credit and this drove the increase in prices. If the planning authorities liked Liam Carroll's spiel and granted permission for more shoeboxes it would have increased activity and supply thus driving prices down. When I refer to the boom I refer to the asset price bubble rather than the level of activity - if you solely understand that to mean shoebox building activity in Liam Carroll's market niche then we'll have to agree to disagree.

Would you agree that whenever stamp duty thresholds were increased or rates reduced the prices of the more affordable houses jumped and this had a knock on effect in the more salubrious locations?

prinz wrote: »

Let's not get into extrapolating one example shall we? If anyone remembers the original Frontline episode on the public v private debate, the one member of the audience who spoke up for the private sector didn't do it any favours either, decked out in his designer suit and faux oxbridge accent. Nearly choked on what I was eating at the time. He didn't represent me or anyone I know, yet there he was banging on about the cut he had to take boo hoo poor mouthing, then he turned around and refused to say an even approximate income for himself with a smug stupid grin.

Obviously that daft bint is not typical, the more sane teachers of that age did not over extend themselves with overseas mortgages, my point was that PS salaries were increased ostensibly to help younger PS workers buy properties - the knock on effect on the salary scales meant that 40/50 something teachers with no/little mortgage are now on great money for no extra work. The craziest thing I heard about was my old secondary school principal who delayed retirement (until 61/62) in order for benchmarking to kick in. As soon as it did his pension was based on final salary - even though when he was working the salary was presumably sufficient to keep him from being poached by the private sector. (not blaming him BTW - it was common sense and he's a good guy).

I didn't see that Frontline but he sounds like a tool

prinz

alejandro1977 wrote: »

Causal Effect is what I am querying.
What you said was that -"low public sector pay caused the boom"

Nope. I said it was one of the reasons. The building "boom" started off with cheap apartments aimed at young single public sector workers in the early 1990's...and went from there. See Chapter 3 "The Boxes" of the book "The Builders", by McDonald and Sheridan, specifically page 62 for the mention I alluded to above. Demand drove on supply, prices went up and wages increased to meet the higher prices etc into a race to the top.

prinz

alejandro1977 wrote: »

Obviously that daft bint is not typical, the more sane teachers of that age did not over extend themselves with overseas mortgages, my point was that PS salaries were increased ostensibly to help younger PS workers buy properties - the knock on effect on the salary scales meant that 40/50 something teachers with no/little mortgage are now on great money for no extra work.

I would agree with that. Even entry level in some sections of the public sector is way out of touch, particularly teachers. Cuts have to be made. Also the sheer waste of resources has to be looked at - something your average PS worker has little or no control over but which has to be dealt with from the top down. I used to live with a young nurse who was paid to sit in a school classroom all day. There were special needs students (learning difficulties - not medical/physical) and she was paid to sit in the class while the teacher did her job in case she was needed to help restrain or calm down a student. In the 9 months I lived with her she never had to. She went in, sat at the back of the class for the day, and left in the evening. Eventually she got sick of it herself and asked to be reassigned. That's the kind of useless misuse of people and money which needs to be overhauled, again from top down, not bottom up.

alejandro1977 wrote: »

I didn't see that Frontline but he sounds like a tool

It was a real head in hands moment. Such perfect fodder for the public sector crowd that I'd swear he was a plant, living up to the stereotype, of a BMW driving exec.

irish_bob

prinz wrote: »

Well it is evidence.It's one of the primary reasons he was getting permission to build 1 bed shoeboxes in the first place because he assured those he had to that he could offer "affordable" housing etc for those in the public sector. Apparently that went down well and sure enough up started sprouting rubbish badly built matchboxes. The blocks he and others threw up were bought by the people they were aimed at, more boxes, bought etc etc and they start getting more expensive and on it goes.



Let's not get into extrapolating one example shall we? If anyone remembers the original Frontline episode on the public v private debate, the one member of the audience who spoke up for the private sector didn't do it any favours either, decked out in his designer suit and faux oxbridge accent. Nearly choked on what I was eating at the time. He didn't represent me or anyone I know, yet there he was banging on about the cut he had to take boo hoo poor mouthing, then he turned around and refused to say an even approximate income for himself with a smug stupid grin.

dont remember him , i do however remember the frothing at the mouth , unhinged ambulance driver who was litterally fit to be tied when eddie hobbs came on

Badboy1977

Sizzler wrote: »

Can you say what government department you work in?

Sadly the story you have portrayed is the too common tale in the civil service, I think you will find that even the staunchest public sector worker will agree that there is utter wastage on the admin side and the slack work practice is inherently part of the culture.

My mates sister did 4 years in UCD and got a job in the dept of agriculture back in 2001, she stayed a year.Despite it being her first job she saw nothing but people walking around chatting, reading papers, taking tea & smoke breaks and very flexible working hours. Ironically herself and 2 others were busy and kept going but this was far outweighed by codgers taking the pi$$ and nobody blinking an eye. I suspect nowt has changed.

How could Begg and O'Connor possibly know what someone on 30k is feeling? What hardship have they known? They are so out of touch with their grassroot members its not funny. If they think they are so deserving of a CEO like salary why dont they put it to a vote to their hard pressed members and see how many of them think they should keep that level of salary.

LOL!The irony! The unions shouting down a govt dept but they would be the first people crying foul tomorrow if it was to be shut down!

I agree, you were on strike, didnt get paid so what you did is your own business but you have to admit theres a touch of Irishness about the Newry thing. The workers are crying foul about impending pay cuts and off they go in spades to spend cash while the union lemmings are standing around like eejits in the cold getting lashed on! The reality is the picketing today did nothing. The next strike will be even less meaningful now. The law of diminishing returns springs to mind:)

The union heads are the only ones in the lifeboats my friend.

You would be quite naive,if you simply take the word of the Media about Newry. There are often tailbacks to Newry. What do you have to say about that?

dresden8

Sizzler wrote: »

Seamus posted something in after hours after that, basically said they WILL get paid.

But he is wrong.

siochan84

Can anyone here honestly say that they wouldn't try protect their salary from yet another cut? I am a newly qualified general practice nurse working in a busy Dublin Hospital so I am at the bottom of the payscale. Nurses have always been underpaid and undervalued in this country. We never as a profession benefited from the Celtic Tiger. Speaking from one public sector worker job perspective I studied and I trained hard for four years to get my Bachelor of Science degree in General Nursing and it wasn't easy. I wasn't paid for the first 3 years of my training. I worked for free in the hospitals doing back breaking work and long 12 hour shifts. Even with all the hardship I STILL enjoy my job but it is a big commitment for anybody to become a nurse. No Christmas, no bank holidays, no New Years, very little weekends off to socialise. Not to mention 84 hours of night duty every 4 weeks which in my opinion isn't worth doing even if you do get a week off. You've put your body through hell and back for it.

The strike day last Tuesday came from pure frustration and anger on the public sector front. We have been getting nothing but abuse from the media. As for all the public servants that supposedly went to the north on Tuesday, I'm not even going to entertain such a nonsensical statement. Nurses were STILL working that day and providing care to vulnerable patients. The rest were picketing, 3 people max were allowed to picket at a time as per management advice. I had just finished an 84 hr of night duty week the previous Monday morning but was asked to picket, I had to partake. Also, may I add that I won't be seeing the extra earnings for that copious of work last week due to being moved into a higher bracket of tax because they don't see shift work or night duty completed they just see a larger wage to cut.

I worked in the private sector a few years ago and my family is also a mix of public and private sector workers so I have nothing against anybody in the private sector. I do however have a major issue with people mouthing off abuse and making sweeping comments towards public sector workers. It is in our rights to strike and oppose further pay cuts. I don't want to be striking, noone does but we have been left with no other alternative. These strikes have got absolutely nothing to do with the private sector. It's not your fight, it's ours. Are we supposed to just sit back tape our mouth's and hand out our wallets to this incompetent government who right at the beginning created such negative attitude towards public sector workers. How is this negative attitude supposed to help? Did they think bad mouthing us would make us more eager to give up 10% of our earnings. Do not forget it was NOT public sector workers who created the recession. WHY must we bare the brunt of greed and scandal while the fat cats and bankers get away scott free?

The majority of the country should be with us not against us. Nurses deal with alot of abuse daily in the workplace, whether that's from aggressive patients or relatives. My job is psychologically and physically hard and we always have to go the extra mile in our job whether that be doing work duties not related to nursing or doing the work of 3 nurses because the hospital doesn't cover sick leave. The majorty of my grad year from Trinity have either gone to Australia or left the nursing profession altogether. There is no incentive to work in this field anymore. At the end of the day, nurses have to make a living too. The government is making a joke out of our jobs. Infact if this cut goes through, they can have mine.

Take your time to read this article because in my opinion, Fergus Finlay makes the public sector worker's point's crystal clear.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/fergus-finlay/public-sector-pay-cuts-unfair-and-counter-productive-on-the-tax-front-105725.html

ei.sdraob

siochan84 wrote: »

Can anyone here honestly say that they wouldn't try protect their salary from yet another cut?

in the real world

people get fired for taking too much piss

if a company is deep in debt you hold onto your job and try get out of it or the company goes bankrupt and everyone looses

in the case of PS the country is their boss and is deep in red and getting deeper in debt trying to pay wages that are overinflated, the rest of the economy went back 5 or more years while the PS are living in cooko land

siochan84

I am talking real world actually. Where public servants the cause of this recession? Answer me that question please?

Also, you have completely ignored all the points I have made about my job, just like the media has been ignoring the fact that public servants are people, have lives and have families to care for and bills to pay. We should be paid properly for our commitments to the public service, especially the 24/7 frontline workers eg. nurses, ambulance staff, firefighters etc. They should at the very least cut our working hours like they have done in Germany if they are thinking of reducing our pay yet again.

ei.sdraob

siochan84 wrote: »

I am talking real world actually. Where public servants the cause of this recession? Answer me that question please?

well the government are part of the public service (and are striking too) .... so yes :mad:

and secondly you all got benchmarked up for no productivity gain

while the rest of the economy adjusted to new reality and went back few years, yee are still living in a protective bubble as if nothing happened
yeh i know yee had pension cuts, whooopedydo! alot of people dont have guaranteed pensions or job they cant be fired from

KELTICKNIGHTT

ei.sdraob wrote: »

in the real world

people get fired for taking too much piss

if a company is deep in debt you hold onto your job and try get out of it or the company goes bankrupt and everyone looses

in the case of PS the country is their boss and is deep in red and getting deeper in debt trying to pay wages that are overinflated, the rest of the economy went back 5 or more years while the PS are living in cooko land

was going too reply but glad you beat me too it ,


facts for me
my family income is down over 60% ,im taking about basic wages ,not over time,i make more on dole but i beleive making my way and holding off going too dole,i came back in 90's from states from good job to be in this position ,everyone is ireland is either losing jobs,losing family going over seas in hope of work and taking a hit in the basic wage and when i see what i hear from public sector pisses me off and anyone i know,my sister in law is anurse and she works hard and gets good wages ,soo please ,using nurses as example is poor as we know how hard they work but theres plenty fat cats in public sector who dont,i have a friend who worked in public sector as had too leave as he was getting paid for doing nothing,so please we all can give good and bad storys,there was a cop in vincent brown during wee saying average wage in ireland was 42,000 in private sector:eek::eek:,waht a load of bull i have ever heard, me and friends heard it and all we could do is laugh as that copper knows nothing about average wage in private sector,a copper whos admitted he was on 60,000,i could go on but bottom line is very simple as last poster said is the employer the goverment is in the red with paying public sector wages and either theres cuts or jobs loses ,if it doesnt happen ,there will be jobs losses in public sector next year anyways as the funds arent there,it bloody simple,the only people who cant see this is public sector,you dont need a crystal ball too see it,this was comming for over a year,,the private sector aints got anything too give,rasing the taxes on low income familys will probly but them on dole which will cost the state more money thats not here,2 biggest payments is socal welfare and public sector,costing hugh money every day or week,sounds less if you do numbers by week,if the govermnet dont cut thsi time ,then there will be public sector job cuts and dooesnt matter which goverment is in power as they dont have a choice,so saying whatin a local news paper about a nurse,waht about the 300 jobs lost yesterday in cork and athlone,what about there familys for christmass,you should youeselfs very very lucky that you have a job as there getting less and less,im sure ill get a public sector saying different but thats expected,think the timing by public sector in this didnt help them and you you strike or do anything which affects private sector ,do you realy expect support,at least not by all of private sector,when you strike its costs private sector familys money and time etc,there will be adivide amount amount both sides about this,

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

KELTICKNIGHTT

siochan84 wrote: »

I am talking real world actually. Where public servants the cause of this recession? Answer me that question please?

Also, you have completely ignored all the points I have made about my job, just like the media has been ignoring the fact that public servants are people, have lives and have families to care for and bills to pay. We should be paid properly for our commitments to the public service, especially the 24/7 frontline workers eg. nurses, ambulance staff, firefighters etc. They should at the very least cut our working hours like they have done in Germany if they are thinking of reducing our pay yet again.

no one said that public sector caused a reccession,where is that said,whats said is public pay cost are costing too much,so either cuts or job cust specialy as everything is clowed down,i know it hasnt in hospitals etc but other areas it has,we all have good life storys too tell,

siochan84

"well the government are part of the public service (and are striking too) .... so yes :mad:"

You see this is were you have it VERY wrong. Ordinary workers on the ground i.e. in hospitals/Fire-stations/Schools were NOT the people who caused the recession. The government did and just take a look at the kind of salaries they are on and they have cheek to propose and cut the normal hard working people's wages. It's an absolute disgrace. Just take a look at the people they are bailing out- now that, not the strike is a joke for you. :mad:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_ga9BrVE8mVM/Ss2tTdzrGpI/AAAAAAAAAjE/glEcaQxIsY8/johnodonoghuemastercard.jpg

Stark

siochan84 wrote: »

"well the government are part of the public service (and are striking too) .... so yes :mad:"

You see this is were you have it VERY wrong. Ordinary workers on the ground i.e. in hospitals/Fire-stations/Schools were NOT the people who caused the recession.

Neither were the rest of us. What do you expect us to do in the middle of an international banking crisis and domestic property bubble crash? Bury our collective heads and say "it's not our fault"? The salary increases paid out to public servants in recent years were only affordable on the basis of cheap available credit and income that was coming in from a bubble. If the bubble leading to the recession never happened, you would never have gotten your salary increases to begin with.

KELTICKNIGHTT

siochan84 wrote: »

"well the government are part of the public service (and are striking too) .... so yes :mad:"

You see this is were you have it VERY wrong. Ordinary workers on the ground i.e. in hospitals/Fire-stations/Schools were NOT the people who caused the recession. The government did and just take a look at the kind of salaries they are on and they have cheek to propose and cut the normal hard working people's wages. It's an absolute disgrace. Just take a look at the people they are bailing out- now that, not the strike is a joke for you. :mad:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_ga9BrVE8mVM/Ss2tTdzrGpI/AAAAAAAAAjE/glEcaQxIsY8/johnodonoghuemastercard.jpg

the recession is globel and not just local

and your repeating again
2 biggest payment in goverment is public wages and dole

Wile E. Coyote

siochan84 wrote: »

I am talking real world actually. Where public servants the cause of this recession? Answer me that question please?

All politicians are public sector workers and I think you'll find they were as much to blame for the mess we're in as any of the bankers they're bailing out.

I agree that nurses have a very tough job and if the money was they're I'd be the first to say you deserved a raise but the money is not there. People in the private sector are losing their jobs and taking pay cuts every day. You have yet to take a paycut and before you say it a pension levy is not a paycut.

murphaph

siochan84 wrote: »

You see this is were you have it VERY wrong. Ordinary workers on the ground i.e. in hospitals/Fire-stations/Schools were NOT the people who caused the recession.

Arrrgghh! We know already! Just like ordinary (and former) PAYE factory workers didn't cause it. It's IRRELEVANT! The money isn't there to pay your wages. We have to make cuts in public sector pay.

Do you think for one second that us private sector people advocating public sector pay cuts are at the same time supporting overpaid, underworked politicians? We know the gimps in Leinster house should get a good kicking as well as a pay cut but the reality is that even if all 166 clowns in Dail Eireann 'worked' for free, it would be but a drop in the deficit ocean. Public sector pay is the big hitter.